101 replies to this topic

[billypc99]

Looks like there is a new resveratrol product with Sinclair called Vivix. I believe this is this product is the first commerical suspension.

[VP.]

Looks like there is a new resveratrol product with Sinclair called Vivix. I believe this is this product is the first commerical suspension.

Shaklee? Say it ain't so Dr. Sinclair!
http://glennabranham...vivix-from.html

[VP.]

Looks like there is a new resveratrol product with Sinclair called Vivix. I believe this is this product is the first commerical suspension.

Shaklee? Say it ain't so Dr. Sinclair!
http://glennabranham...vivix-from.html

OMG this is marketing BS!

Those of you who voted the new product would be a nutritional supplement... you were right! Only, its more revolutionary than any of us would ever have imagined. Like we said earlier, Shaklee has been delivering us some wonderful and exciting surprises over the past few Global Conferences, and this year they surpassed all of our expectations.



Anti-aging is the new medical frontier that has been considered the "wonder" or "pseudo" science for years... until now.


Roger did it again, and through making one of his famous phone calls, he was able to partner with Dr. David Sinclair from Harvard, who was already publishing research on unlocking the longevity of genes. In short, Dr. Sinclair was researching ways to help individuals live longer, feel better, and eradicate diseases associated with the aging process.


Dr. Sinclair and Shaklee Scientists already knew through two years of research that reserveratrol, a natural substance found in red wine, helped to slow down the aging process and reverse disease in plants, animals, and humans.


Instead of developing a product with just reserveratrol, Shaklee found a breakthrough source called the Super Grape. In addition, Shaklee has not only patented the process for extraction from the Super Grape, but they also have the exclusive rights to the largest supply of Super Grape in the World. In other words, Shaklee is the only company in the world with this new breakthrough product, and you can ONLY get it from a Shaklee Distributor!


So, what is this new product you ask? Introducing...VIVIX


Using just a teaspoon a day, the equivalent of drinking 100 glasses of red wine per day, you will enjoy the mental and physical benefits of looking and feeling 25 years younger! There will be wonderful savings on this product with Autoship. Stay tuned for more details.

http://shaklog.blogs...ologically.html
Science sells out. :(

[Anthony_Loera]

Looks like Sinclair is getting into the MLM business.
Since the Patent actually remains as an application under Westphal's name then I believe we will see folks start copying it now.

Why MLM?
http://www.wealth-via-health.com/

A

[Anthony_Loera]

100 glasses? Is that correct?
Hmmm... ok, I will stop our Pfizer capsugel contract until I see this 'new' formulation for myself.

If Sinclair is pushing this, these folks will be our new competition, forget longevin**.

The great part is that most people here can already get micronized resveratrol powder and make their own tonic in their blender, without waiting for non-micronized powder to dissolve in your drink.

A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 08 August 2008 - 03:22 PM.

[Anthony_Loera]

Vivix... $100 for 30 day supply

Vivix Key Ingredients:
trans-Resveratrol (Polygonumcuspidatum) (root) standardized to a minimum of 98% purity
Muscadine Grape extract (Vitis rotundifolia) (fruit pomace)
European Elderberry extract (Sambucus nigra) (fruit)
Purple Carrot extract (Daucus carota sativus) (root)


Elderberry extract? That sounds vaguely familiar....
I am proceeding with our Capsugel formulation, as these ingredients are not an issue.

The whole Vivix 30 day supply = 3,000 glasses of red wine or 500 Bottles of wine
While....

A single 300mg Capsule = 900 Glasses of red wine or 150 Bottles of Wine

Interesting marketing.
A

[sUper GeNius]

Hey, I just became a distributor! I'm gonna make a million bucks! Going over to the family reunion tonight, I'm sure I can signup 5 or 10 relatives, and at the same time unload some of this product sitting in my closet....

)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[jCole]

Didn't Sinclair, in a interview with Barbra Walters, say you would have to drink about 1000 glasses a day to get the benefits from RSV?

But now he's marketing this new stuff only equivalent to 100 glasses.


Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


And the whole MLM BS pisses me off like no other... if anything, this could potentially tarnish RSV... and in the main stream, toss it into the snake oil category along with all these other MLM scams.

Edited by jCole, 11 August 2008 - 04:38 PM.

[jCole]

Don't knock it till you try it. I got some and I'm LOVING it!

Being you just registered today and mysteriously appeared in this thread... this sounds like one big giant advertisement to me.

No offense.


And welcome to the forum btw.


:edit:

Removed bulk of the advertisement from SusanK in my quote due to it being canned.

Edited by jCole, 12 August 2008 - 01:48 AM.

[DaffyDuck]

Don't knock it till you try it. I got some and I'm LOVING it!

This post should be removed IMHO. Too many claims and too little proof. It's just an ad.

[maxwatt]

Don't knock it till you try it. I got some and I'm LOVING it!

This post should be removed IMHO. Too many claims and too little proof. It's just an ad.

Marketing nonsense:

The grape is the only one with an additional chromosone that makes the resveratrol 10x more effective.

[niner]

and they guarantee that it works.

Isn't that illegal? Seriously. Supplements can't make potency claims. If they do, they are medicines and fall under the jurisdiction of the FDA. This post is marketing bullshit. Sorry sweetheart, this forum isn't the place for MLM advertisements.

I moved the offending post to The Can.

Edited by niner, 12 August 2008 - 01:27 AM.

[Anthony_Loera]

Didn't Sinclair, in a interview with Barbra Walters, say you would have to drink about 1000 glasses a day to get the benefits from RSV?

But now he's marketing this new stuff only equivalent to 100 glasses.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

And the whole MLM BS pisses me off like no other... if anything, this could potentially tarnish RSV... and in the main stream, toss it into the snake oil category along with all these other MLM scams.

You are incorrect jCole, It was not "1000 Glasses" of wine a day, it was 1000 Bottles of wine a day:

Here is a link to that video where Sinclair says just that to Barbara Walters:


He states it, in minute (1:30/3:50) of the video... if you want to try to skip to it in the video...

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 12 August 2008 - 01:30 PM.

[jCole]

Didn't Sinclair, in a interview with Barbra Walters, say you would have to drink about 1000 glasses a day to get the benefits from RSV?

But now he's marketing this new stuff only equivalent to 100 glasses.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

And the whole MLM BS pisses me off like no other... if anything, this could potentially tarnish RSV... and in the main stream, toss it into the snake oil category along with all these other MLM scams.

You are incorrect jCole, It was not "1000 Glasses" of wine a day, it was 1000 Bottles of wine a day:

Here is a link to that video where Sinclair says just that to Barbara Walters:


He states it, in minute (1:30/3:50) of the video... if you want to try to skip to it in the video...

Thank you.

[SusanK]

Hey all,
Sorry to peeve some of you. Yes, I got the verbage wrong on the guarantee. That's why I didn't go into law LOL!
You can check the corporate site to get the correct wording.

I'm just pretty psyched about how I am feeling on this and you all had some questions and so I tried to answer them.
I may be new, but don't hold that against me.

[edward]

Come on why a liquid (the worst possible way to store RESV) if there is no delivery system that needs to stay in a liquid form (Tween etc.). There is no logic or science behind this formula. Ugh this whole product and MLM, in general makes me sick to my stomach, ugh the stuff is all over Facebook and Myspace.... When I see MLM I RUN. Lol they even call the stuff a "tonic".

edit:

...snip

And the whole MLM BS pisses me off like no other... if anything, this could potentially tarnish RSV... and in the main stream, toss it into the snake oil category along with all these other MLM scams.

I sooo agree this kind of junk coupled with MLM BS selling techniques by every Tom, Dick, Mary and Susan will lump RSV in the category of Herbalife, Coral Calcium, Magnets and other .... UGH

Edited by edward, 12 August 2008 - 04:38 PM.

[DaffyDuck]

I sooo agree this kind of junk coupled with MLM BS selling techniques by every Tom, Dick, Mary and Susan will lump RSV in the category of Herbalife, Coral Calcium, Magnets and other .... UGH

Agree. Perhaps we need a thread debunking this product. Maybe create a list of false or unproven claims to start.

[SusanK]

To answer the question, "why a liquid?", I understand that the reasoning behind the liquid was that they found that the drying process impacted the potency of the product.

I would check out the science behind the product before saying that there is none. Seems to me that Dr. Sinclair can work with any company in the world he wants to. And given his status and passion, he would be very picky about who he chooses to associate with. That certainly carries weight with me.

[Anthony_Loera]

Drying process?

Have you seen our independently tested Trans-resveratrol COA recently (yes for dry powder...), it certainly doesn't appear to impact it very much...
http://www.revgeneti...ol_Analysis.pdf

Maybe Shaklee doesn't have it all together yet, when trying to extract resveratrol from a plant?

A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 12 August 2008 - 05:43 PM.

[SusanK]

It may have more to do with the potency of the muscadine extract and the synergistic effect with the resveratrol. From what I was getting out the information, they were indicating that the fresh muscadine extract worked better in increasing the effect of the resveratrol against the formation of AGE proteins when the muscadine extract was not dried and reconstituted. Their tests showed that the resveratrol became 10 times more effective in this combination than by itself.

Edited by SusanK, 12 August 2008 - 05:59 PM.

[DaffyDuck]

It may have more to do with the potency of the muscadine extract and the synergistic effect with the resveratrol.

Are there some published studies we can see that proves this or are we supposed to believe this on faith?

[SusanK]

Here's one.
They were working in conjunction with the University of GA, which published this study:
Farrar JL, Hartle DK, Hargrove JL, Greenspan P: Inhibition of protein glycation by skins and seeds of the muscadine grape. Biofactors 2007,
30(3):193-200.

Abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18525113

Edited by SusanK, 12 August 2008 - 11:08 PM.

[SusanK]

Here is another done by the U of GA:
Major flavonoids in grape seeds and skins: antioxidant capacity of catechin, epicatechin, and gallic acid.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/14733505

Compares the major flavonoids between Merlot, Chardonnay, and a variety of Muscadine. The Muscadine was far richer in these compounds. (Same flavonoids that inhibit the AGE proteins in the study above)

Edited by SusanK, 12 August 2008 - 11:33 PM.

[krillin]

To answer the question, "why a liquid?", I understand that the reasoning behind the liquid was that they found that the drying process impacted the potency of the product.

I would check out the science behind the product before saying that there is none. Seems to me that Dr. Sinclair can work with any company in the world he wants to. And given his status and passion, he would be very picky about who he chooses to associate with. That certainly carries weight with me.

Sinclair is maximizing his own benefit, not that of his customers. It's the same for all celebrity scientists.

[DaffyDuck]

Compares the major flavonoids between Merlot, Chardonnay, and a variety of Muscadine. The Muscadine was far richer in these compounds. (Same flavonoids that inhibit the AGE proteins in the study above)

Unless I missed it, neither of these studies discuss synergistic effects with resveratrol or that muscadine increases resveratrol's effect tenfold. I don't question the benefits of muscadine grapes.

[DaffyDuck]

Sinclair is maximizing his own benefit, not that of his customers. It's the same for all celebrity scientists.

What I don't understand is why he would get involved with this when he is already involved with Sirtris, tarnishing his good name in the process (in my opinion). I'm personally not going to believe this connection until there is more proof. What's available in a Google search is unconvincing to me. Some blof and forum posts is not enough and as a matter of fact, the blog claiming the connection at the top of this thread has been pulled. That doesn't exactly solidify the claim in my opinion.

[billypc99]

Compares the major flavonoids between Merlot, Chardonnay, and a variety of Muscadine. The Muscadine was far richer in these compounds. (Same flavonoids that inhibit the AGE proteins in the study above)

Unless I missed it, neither of these studies discuss synergistic effects with resveratrol or that muscadine increases resveratrol's effect tenfold. I don't question the benefits of muscadine grapes.

Here is one study indicating potential synergy between muscadine and resveratrol:

Ellagic acid and quercetin interact synergistically with resveratrol in the induction of apoptosis and cause transient cell cycle arrest in human leukemia cells.
Cancer Lett. 2005 Feb 10;218(2):141-51.
PMID: 15670891 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

It is my understanding that the muscadine grape is unique from all other grapes because it contains an extra set of chromosomes. This extra set is thought to encode for the production of ellagic acid within the grape. So unlike all other grapes the muscadine contains ellagic acid and I beleive it is in a mixture of forms that is unlike any other naturally occuring sources of ellagic acid (raspberries,etc). Further, the muscadine is probably the only source of resveratrol and ellagic acid (in its various forms). There has been a plethora of research studies looking into the effects of resveratrol on cancer and many studies have looked at various combinations with resveratrol. Although some have claimed that adding various agents to resveratrol made the mixture synergestic, few if any have shown anything but an additive effect. However, ellagic acid and resveratrol have shown a true synergestic effect as the right experiments have been done. For example, in the above study they did the proper isobolgraphic analysis, which is tedious and costly, but allows for a true test of synergy. That is why we are starting to see reasearch being conducted throught the NCI, etc.

[Anthony_Loera]

I believe the marketing is aimed at "Advanced Glycation End" AGE Product protein formation only, not anti-cancer synergism.

http://en.wikipedia....tion_endproduct

Basically they are saying that resveratrol + different grape extracts are better at "dealing, slowing or clearing this" (it's uncertain what they mean), than res alone. That play on words probably allows them to say it slows this "Age" process.

That is the whole basis of their 10x better marketing which is pretty silly, as it has the average person believing that they get all the other resveratrol benefits at 10x the strength, which they don't. Resveratrol shows to do this as well... I would like to see the 10x studies.

Take your resveratrol, good old fruits and veggies, and probably take some carnosine (or aspirin). Of course you can make your own super tonic with res, particular fruits, and carnosine at a much lower price than Vivix can offer.

A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 13 August 2008 - 02:07 PM.

[Alistair]

Just read this thread and none of the links to the vivix / glenna blog now work.

I also am sceptical about Dr. Sinclair's involvement. He is now part of GSK, a company with huge resources working on products with stratospheric prospects. Why would he need to get cash from other companies when GSK are prepared to put millions into him and his ideas? Would GSK and their legal team really allow him a contract that leaves him free to let him start a profitable association with another company using the Intellectual Property they have paid 720 million for?

I just can't see it...

Alistair

[SusanK]

Good morning all!!!

I guarantee that I am no expert, but I will share whatever information that I can.
Some of these comments are my opinion and what I think might be possible explanations for many of the concerns listed above. I hope that this can continue to be a civil conversation.

Synergy and Studies: This company is VERY careful about what they say. And they like to do research. (they have like 75 scientists on staff). I would say, just be patient. It's coming. If they can't prove it. They don't say it. They said that there are lab tests that supported this claim. (the 10X claim about AGE protein formation). They say that the product addresses all four areas of cellular aging.

Why this product?: According to Dr. Sinclair's address at the launch, he says that the pharmaceuticals are 7-10 years out.

Would you prefer to wait that long? Heck, I don't. I'll be in my mid-50's. He said something to the effect of that this allows the technology to get into the hands of people BEFORE then.

I was told last night that in the next few days, Dr. Sinclair's name will be on the company websites, his bio will be added and the 10 minute address will also be online.

Why this company?: My opinion: They do the research, they have super-strict quality controls and they have more scientists on their staff than the other top health and wellness companies combined. They reject more raw materials than I think anyone else does. Not only that, this was an extremely complex and expensive product to create. It's been 4 years in the making. I don't think there are a lot of companies that would do that for a food supplement.

On that note, a bigwig for a major pharama co was once asked if they used GMP standards in manufacturing their food supplements. His response was something like, "Oh no. That would be too expensive and our stockholders wouldn't go for that." Shaklee doesn't have stock holders to be beholden to. Roger just writes the checks and makes things happen. If he wants the best product on the market, he can make that happen.

About GSK: As I understand, Dr. Sinclair sold his portion of Sirtris to GSK and he is now a third-party consultant for them. GSK, as I understand, does not "own" him. It is possible that his contract covers only pharmaceuticals and NOT nutritional supplements. He's a smart guy. If I were him and if I were so passionate about getting a supplement on the market for people, I would make sure the contract covered that contingency.

Alistair... I'm not sure, but it is possible that GSK only paid for the pharmaceutical rights.

As far as consulting is concerned, I have also heard that he is a personal consultant to Barbara Walters. What I learned last night is that Shaklee is the only company that he will be consulting with in the health and wellness industry.

About profiting from this: I say, "Wooo hooo!!!" I think that Dr. S. has every right to profit from this. SOMEONE will profit from this. Why not him? Why not the little guy. People like us??? Why does it only have to be in the hands of Big Corporations? And maybe it inspires some other scientist to go out on his own to discover something equally as ground-breaking. I like the education with this company. Do you know how many health food store people I have talked to who just get dumb, blank stares when you ask them a complex question? There is practically ZERO education in that type of marketing model. I like it when people can answer my questions, or at least find and answer, and be willing to take the time to do it. Not just, "You gonna buy that or not?"

Why not see what one's body says? I see lots of people on this board trying different products to see what happens. Why not this one? It has a 100% satisfaction, money-back guarantee. (Doesn't include shipping cost tho, which is standard), the local health food stores won't give me my money back. If I don't like something, I'm out the money. So this is a better deal, I think. Then people who really want to say how awful this product is, they have a leg to stand on. For me, it's only been a few days and I'm loving how I feel. My mood is sooo much better too! I don't think DH is going to let me go with out it! Heh heh. (and before anyone flames me... please note the absence of website links).

Dr. S. seemed very sincere to me and excited that regular people could have a product that they can trust (and in my reading of posts, it seems that some people are having varied results, which shouldn't have to be that way in my opinion).

Sorry this is kinda long,
Hope it helps

You guys are all great researchers and a good skeptic is a good thing. There is so much "crap" on the market it makes me sick sometimes.

Hugs to everyone!
Susan

Edited by SusanK, 13 August 2008 - 04:14 PM.