41 replies to this topic

[Matt]

Sorry about that edit. I was able to 'undo' all until it wouldn't allow me anymore. I think it's fixed now... completely forgot I had ability to edit posts and went to reply to yours but pressed the wrong button!. Won't happen again, I learned my lesson lol Phew! Someone could of warned me about that! lol.

Edited by Matt, 24 September 2008 - 04:19 PM.

[Matt]

I believe those doing CR are missing out and act too prematurely to practice CR wholeheartedly. It is silly to devout one's life to something which isn't even proven.

People dedicate much of their lives to certain projects and beliefs and in the end turn out to be wrong, in the end it all results in the understanding of things. A positive or negative result from application of calorie restriction in humans is a step forward. Many around here probably believe that Kurzweil kind of future will eventually come true, but none of us can really know exactly when this is. For me the practice of CR is quite straight forward, it gives me just a bit more chance of hanging around long enough to be healthy enough to survive the first line therapies, and maybe not even need those but skip to the better more advanced therapies that can reverse aging more effecitvely. Since I don't have any religious beliefs there are two possibilities; a) Miss out and be dead forever, b) Stay alive long enough to live a 'very long time'. Since I only have one shot at it, I think it's best to stick to CR now rather than later.

As for the evidence whether CR will work or not. We can simply go by what changes we see in humans right now that are doing self imposed CR. We respond in a very similar way to rodents and monkeys that are put on CR. Our health biomarkers are exactly where they should be and reflect what is shown in many studies on CR and just the general population of what increases / decreases the risk of mortality. With practically zero risk of heart disease, diabetes, and stroke we can expect to add quite a few years on there, and since humans develop less cancer than rodents in their life we could expect a significant protection here too.

The characteristics that explain why centenarians reach the ages they do are being seen with those that practice CR. Very low insulin levels, low glucose, low white blood count, protection against cardiovascular disease, younger functioning hearts, decreased body temperature, probably slower decline in DHEAS. You can take studies that give estimates on your chances of reaching your late 80's and 90's and see that people who do CR basically meet all of them. The only thing that seems to contradict CR's ability to extend lifespan in humans is the fact that recent studies have shown higher BMI's result in less mortality. But there are also many well done studies to contradict this too. This is what science is all about.

I'd rather not start CR when I start losing my eye sight, when I start going deaf, when my hair goes grey and I see crows feet and wrinkles over my face, and when my body generally has started to deteriorate. The younger one starts the longer they will retain their youth for. You can already see this on many CRers that have been doing it for a long time. It doesn't prove they'll live much longer lives, but they are certainly looking better and in better shape generally than the general population who still survive [not live] until they're 80.

Calorie Restriction is really not all that hard to do, in fact it is extremely easy. I found that IF to be much more difficult for me. It has become a way of life, I don't even think about it that much now, I just go about my daily things as I did pre CR. Of course there was much research going into it at first and I did focus on CR and am I doing this wrong or right for a few months... but it's really not as big deal as you make it out. It certainly doesn't feel like deprivation or starvation whatsoever.

Edited by Matt, 24 September 2008 - 04:13 PM.

[luv2increase]

CR has a ton more support than anything else for the possibility of maximum lifespan increases.

shepard, do you partake in CR?

[Shepard]

shepard, do you partake in CR?

Nope. I'm currently quite interested in athletic performance. If health problems arose or if there is nothing better when I'm much older, I would consider it greatly.

[kismet]

I'd be more than happy to discuss this topic with you, even though I don't like your style of argumentation. Telling me I've made a "silly point", or  that you're right "whether I like it or not" does not help to make your point at all.
Ok, so you do agree that a minority (people who do not like food) could cope with CR mentally. I argue that CR never was and never will be a mainstream diet/lifestyle, but is more on the extreme end. So the point you tried to make, that people would feel bad because they are deprived of food is irrelevant to most CRONies, because only the extreme minority will practice CR in the first place.

Now we only need to convince you that even the majority of people could cope with CR. Would you accept your point as disproved if you were presented an interventional study of people doing CR over X years measuring markers of depression/happiness, suicide rates, etc and showing no differences?
Or will it be enough if long-term CRONies on this board continue to claim they are happy in the coming years? Will you believe them?

Will you change your mind when positive data from the primate studies emerges? At least from "extremely negative" to "very negative" or something along the lines?

I guess the point will be settled in 5-10 years then...

Edited by kismet, 24 September 2008 - 06:43 PM.

[luv2increase]

Or will it be enough if long-term CRONies on this board continue to claim they are happy in the coming years? Will you believe them?

I will be satisfied that CR is beneficial for homo sapiens after the majority of them have lived into the 100s.

I guess the point will be settled in 5-10 years then...

More like 40/50 years or even longer.



I would also like to remind you that you cannot possibly know that everyone who attempts CR will be happy or not, either. Just as I made this mistake, you certainly have here as well. Everybody is different and has different genetics, metabolisms, and mind-sets. To say that one condition applies to all subjects in irresponsible.

Edited by luv2increase, 24 September 2008 - 07:51 PM.

[Matt]

I will be satisfied that CR is beneficial for homo sapiens after the majority of them have lived into the 100s.

But what's your point, by this time it's too late. We might as well just take a chance and do CR.

I would also like to remind you that you cannot possibly know that everyone who attempts CR will be happy or not, either. Just as I made this mistake, you certainly have here as well. Everybody is different and has different genetics, metabolisms, and mind-sets. To say that one condition applies to all subjects in irresponsible.

Then the clever thing to do here is actually talk to the people who actually do CR long term, and see what they have to say. There are plenty of them at the CRS, you can even meet them in person too at the CRS conferences

[luv2increase]

But what's your point, by this time it's too late. We might as well just take a chance and do CR.

My point is that I feel I'll be able to live into the 100s as it is now. My life routine I believe will allow this to happen. I eat healthily, exercise, pray daily (study shows same beneficial effects as meditation), have a good circadian rhythm, have a positive outlook on life, am not afraid of death, have an excellent ability to cope with stress, don't have much stress, have plenty of sex, keep my mind active, take a myriad of supposed life-extending and general overall healthy supplements, have fantastic genetics with many past family members living past 90 years old, drink only water (besides my additive-free protein shakes), and I don't do recreational drugs nor drink alcohol.

You see, CR is not needed nor is it even a possibility for me due to my increased caloric needs as a result from my busy schedule and exercise program.

There are plenty of them at the CRS, you can even meet them in person too at the CRS conferences

Will I be able to see them? j/k bad joke

[Ben]

But what's your point, by this time it's too late. We might as well just take a chance and do CR.

My point is that I feel I'll be able to live into the 100s as it is now. My life routine I believe will allow this to happen. I eat healthily, exercise, pray daily (study shows same beneficial effects as meditation), have a good circadian rhythm, have a positive outlook on life, am not afraid of death, have an excellent ability to cope with stress, don't have much stress, have plenty of sex, keep my mind active, take a myriad of supposed life-extending and general overall healthy supplements, have fantastic genetics with many past family members living past 90 years old, drink only water (besides my additive-free protein shakes), and I don't do recreational drugs nor drink alcohol.

You see, CR is not needed nor is it even a possibility for me due to my increased caloric needs as a result from my busy schedule and exercise program.

There are plenty of them at the CRS, you can even meet them in person too at the CRS conferences

Will I be able to see them? j/k bad joke

I almost wish you had an actual point and an actual argument to go with that actual point.

[luv2increase]

I almost wish you had an actual point and an actual argument to go with that actual point.

Come on Ben - Aus, couldn't you understand?


The point is this: if someone is busy busy busy both mentally with work and physically with an intense exercise regimen they cannot possibly practice CR..............

[Ben]

I almost wish you had an actual point and an actual argument to go with that actual point.

Come on Ben - Aus, couldn't you understand?


The point is this: if someone is busy busy busy both mentally with work and physically with an intense exercise regimen they cannot possibly practice CR..............

This thread is a good debate on CR I reckon:

http://www.imminst.o...o...c=22488&hl=

[Shannon Vyff]

I'm quite busy, I intensely exercise and I do CR. Since I eat once a day, when I feel hungry at 1:20 to 3:30 I sometimes feel light headed or tired, but I'll have some coffee or tea. I don't notice being more depressed or irritable when hungry. I'm actually most like that in the evening after I've eaten . For years since I started CR, I've come to like feeling hungry as I know it is something special I'm doing for my health. I have plenty of food around, my kids and husband snack--its a choice I make, and that gives me a good feeling.