56 replies to this topic

[Luna]

Maybe upload a picture of how you look like?

We don't look for older guys, we look for mature guys
Do you really believe it is worth going through all the trouble and time building muscle instead of being yourself just for women who can't see you for who you really are?
Think about it! don't change yourself for the sake of others, they are not worth it if they want you in any other way then that you are.

[sentinel]

Ghost

You're a nice guy but you've been pussyfooting around this for a long time. You need to decide TODAY whether you are going to get over it or get on with it, but stop procrastinating as that just leads to ...nothing!

Get over it:
Accept and be your body type, be happy being fit agile and healthy and realise that it is your mind and confidence that are either getting in the way of OR the things that are going to be attractive to other people; girls, guys, small furry animals whatever.

Get on with it;
If you really have to get this Being Big bee in your bonnet (alliteration purely for my own entertainment) addressed then just do it! It is simple but easy:
Eat more - initially add some shakes ie protein + fineground oatmeal + Olive oil or other good fat source. 2-3 a day + your regular 2-3 meals.

Re training, here's a program I put in for BenAus in another thread :

Rep Range 8-10 after warmup set of c 15 reps

Monday
Chest
3 x Bench Press and
3 x Incline Dumbell Press
2 x Dips (for chest and bridging into..)
Triceps
3 x standing Dumbell Extensions or lying "scull crushers" (with EZ bar if you have one)
Shoulders
3 x military press

Tuesday
Rest off weights but with interval training or aerobic activity if you wish

Wednesday
Back
Body weight Chins x 3 (pref wide grip) - at this stage depends how many you can do but 8-10 again.
Bent over rows (barbell or dumbell) x 3
Deadlifts x 3- Keep the weight fairly light and focus on technique
Legs
Squats x 4

Thursday
See Tuesday

Friday
See Monday

Weekend off.

Sleep well ie 8 hrs, more if you can and eat a lot Depends on your weight and metabolism but probably in the 3500-4000 range, with a decent whey powder 2-3 times a day included within that.

This is a simple overview but you can up the intensity as your body adapts or go into some of the more advanced composite power moves such as cleans when your tendons and ligaments have built up some resilience.

I don't want loads of people chiming in with changes and optimisations at this point because the point of this post is that you have to make a Decision, then follow it up, otherwise you will just wallow in the staus quo.

Good luck and be happy.

[.fonclea.]

Here's the dilemma: Most women are attracted to big and muscular guys. Being big and muscular requires a higher calorie diet. Restricting caloric intake extends life. So I either start working out, gaining muscle mass just to appear more attractive, or I continue doing what I am doing now and remain scrawny, but possible healthier depending on if the theory of calorie restriction is valid.

I watched a few years ago a document on TV about the physical attraction. Apparently it's the smell wich attract two human being. We are like butterflies spreding hormones.
Personnaly i am attract to the firt words a guy will tell me, his voice, the tone and then his smell.


Now i don't know since the 18th of august wich decision you took but be yourself, you can seduce if you are not youself and well with that.

[imarobot]

If the type of woman you're attracted to is confident, you will have to display as much or more confidence. If the type is sensitive, you will have to display sensitivity. So ask yourself what kind you typically attract. Those are likely to be the predominant signals you're giving.

Opposites rarely attract. That hyper-masculine guy has a hyper-feminine woman. Those aren't opposites. They are both exaggerations of male-ness or female-ness. The unusually attractive woman with the rich guy? They're both primarily interested in status. So what is your primary requirement?

Do you understand yourself well enough? Are you pursuing the wrong type of woman? Have you idealized a certain type of woman because of status rather than because of suitability? Can you reasonably change yourself to measure up to the woman you want?

That said, having an athletic body would probably give you more options than a heavy muscled body.

Good luck, dude. You'll probably figure it all out eventually.

Edited by imarobot, 02 March 2009 - 07:13 PM.

[Infernity]

Well... I personally am a fond of muscles, that's really nice to feel warm and safe within the embrace of a muscular men, as well as it is hot to see one's impressive arms and stomach.

You need to work hard, but keep your diet as you want. It will do the work. No one likes a moster of muscles. It's all about the moderation.

[Ghostrider]

Ghost

You're a nice guy but you've been pussyfooting around this for a long time. You need to decide TODAY whether you are going to get over it or get on with it, but stop procrastinating as that just leads to ...nothing!

Get over it:
Accept and be your body type, be happy being fit agile and healthy and realise that it is your mind and confidence that are either getting in the way of OR the things that are going to be attractive to other people; girls, guys, small furry animals whatever.

Get on with it;
If you really have to get this Being Big bee in your bonnet (alliteration purely for my own entertainment) addressed then just do it! It is simple but easy:
Eat more - initially add some shakes ie protein + fineground oatmeal + Olive oil or other good fat source. 2-3 a day + your regular 2-3 meals.

Re training, here's a program I put in for BenAus in another thread :

Rep Range 8-10 after warmup set of c 15 reps

Monday
Chest
3 x Bench Press and
3 x Incline Dumbell Press
2 x Dips (for chest and bridging into..)
Triceps
3 x standing Dumbell Extensions or lying "scull crushers" (with EZ bar if you have one)
Shoulders
3 x military press

Tuesday
Rest off weights but with interval training or aerobic activity if you wish

Wednesday
Back
Body weight Chins x 3 (pref wide grip) - at this stage depends how many you can do but 8-10 again.
Bent over rows (barbell or dumbell) x 3
Deadlifts x 3- Keep the weight fairly light and focus on technique
Legs
Squats x 4

Thursday
See Tuesday

Friday
See Monday

Weekend off.

Sleep well ie 8 hrs, more if you can and eat a lot Depends on your weight and metabolism but probably in the 3500-4000 range, with a decent whey powder 2-3 times a day included within that.

This is a simple overview but you can up the intensity as your body adapts or go into some of the more advanced composite power moves such as cleans when your tendons and ligaments have built up some resilience.

I don't want loads of people chiming in with changes and optimisations at this point because the point of this post is that you have to make a Decision, then follow it up, otherwise you will just wallow in the staus quo.

Good luck and be happy.

I have been unnecessarily indecisive. I can always try it and see what happens. So I will start working out for the next two months as well as increasing my caloric intake. After that time, I will measure my results and see whether the time commitment is worth it.

[sentinel]

Good man! You've set your goal; hit it hard for 2 months consistently and you will see results, then you can decide if it was worth the effort to YOU.

I look forward to your reading your results thread in 2 months, 3rd May 2009, Ghost

[Skötkonung]

Can you tell me what you ate yesterday? I have no idea how to get to 4000 calories per day without developing some sort of eating disorder. Similar to Cobalt, eating is something that I don't really enjoy doing. Here's what I ate yesterday:

1 yogurt
oat meal
2 bananas (morning and late afternoon)
sandwich
vegetable stir fry with rice
2 whey protein drinks (morning and late afternoon)
blueberries
carrots

So I am probably not getting even half of the 4000 calories from that, but it does fill me up. I need something simple, caloric, and relatively healthy to begin on.

You don't need to be eating 4000 calories a day as that is the amount I have calculated based on my activity level and body mass. You will need to determine that based on your own personal stats. An easy way to do that is by first calculating your basal metabolic rate and then adding 500 calories to accommodate exercise and muscle growth. If this turns out to be insufficient to meet your goals, you can always add more caloric intake at a later date.

Based on the stats you have submitted in this post (5'7", 117lbs, Male, 26yrs) your BMR is roughly 1500 calories / daily using the Harris-Benedict equation. You can then augment that to account for exercise and muscle growth which equates to roughly 2000 calories a day. That may not seem like much and you may need to increase it if you find yourself hungry or losing energy in the gym -- experimentation is key. Also, don't forget to increase your food intake as you increase your weight otherwise you will find yourself hitting a plateau.

You asked how I get 4000 calories in a day..and the key is fats. Unlike carbohydrates or proteins which are roughly 4 calories per 1 gram, fats are 7 to 9 (depending on the source) calories per gram. That means a fat dense food will contain much more calories by volume than something comprised of protein or carbs. This mindset works well with the paleolithic / primal diet that heavily emphasizes fat consumption. Furthermore, if you keep your carb levels sub 150g daily, you will avoid storing extra body fat. As a rule, try to consume 1g of protein per 1lb of bodyweight.

Here are some sample foods that I make a staple of my daily diet:
- Avocados
- Eggs
- Grass fed beef or flax fed chicken / turkey (Natural varieties have an improved lipid profile)
- Tempeh
- Whey protein (I take several shakes a day - each with 50g protein per serving)
- Carrots
- Spinach
- Olive Oil
- Organic Butter
- Organic Part Skim Mozzarella cheese
- Kefir
- Almonds (and Almond Butter)
- Pecans
- Walnuts
- Blueberries
- Hot peppers (Anaheim and Serrano varieties)
- Sugar snap peas
- Apples / Plums / Oranges, etc
- Cucumbers
- Broccoli

If you open Excel and start creating meals using those types of ingredients while minding the 55% fats, 30% protein, 15% carbs split, you will find it quite easy to reach 2000 or even 3000 calories a day. I often configure a salad with grilled beef, spinach, and other delicious vegetables that has 750 calories! That's just one meal. As you gain weight, your body will want to eat more to sustain itself and its higher activity levels so don't worry about needing to develop a massive appetite right away. Anyways, I hope this has been helpful

uhh don't try to gain muscles just to attract someone!
non muscular men are attractive too, all muscular men I met didn't show half the intelligence and care expressed by my boyfriend!
just be yourself and be understanding, that is more than anything

While I agree that exercising shouldn't be done only for attracting the opposite sex, you could see how your comment might be perceived as slightly insulting by perpetuating a negative stereotype. Imagine if I replaced "muscular men" with "black people." Not too nice, eh?

Besides, a recent Scientific American article recently cited a study where braincell growth was shown to increase due to daily physical exercise.

"The cells are not generated like clockwork, however. Instead their production can be influenced by a number of different environmental factors. For example, alcohol consumption has been shown to retard the generation of new brain cells. And their birth rate can be enhanced by exercise. Rats and mice that log time on a running wheel can kick out twice as many new cells as mice that lead a more sedentary life. Even eating blueberries seems to goose the ­generation of new neurons in the rat hippocampus."

http://www.sciam.com...new-brain-cells

Edited by shawn57187, 02 March 2009 - 11:21 PM.

[Ghostrider]

Can you tell me what you ate yesterday? I have no idea how to get to 4000 calories per day without developing some sort of eating disorder. Similar to Cobalt, eating is something that I don't really enjoy doing. Here's what I ate yesterday:

1 yogurt
oat meal
2 bananas (morning and late afternoon)
sandwich
vegetable stir fry with rice
2 whey protein drinks (morning and late afternoon)
blueberries
carrots

So I am probably not getting even half of the 4000 calories from that, but it does fill me up. I need something simple, caloric, and relatively healthy to begin on.

You don't need to be eating 4000 calories a day as that is the amount I have calculated based on my activity level and body mass. You will need to determine that based on your own personal stats. An easy way to do that is by first calculating your basal metabolic rate and then adding 500 calories to accommodate exercise and muscle growth. If this turns out to be insufficient to meet your goals, you can always add more caloric intake at a later date.

Based on the stats you have submitted in this post (5'7", 117lbs, Male, 26yrs) your BMR is roughly 1500 calories / daily using the Harris-Benedict equation. You can then augment that to account for exercise and muscle growth which equates to roughly 2000 calories a day. That may not seem like much and you may need to increase it if you find yourself hungry or losing energy in the gym -- experimentation is key. Also, don't forget to increase your food intake as you increase your weight otherwise you will find yourself hitting a plateau.

You asked how I get 4000 calories in a day..and the key is fats. Unlike carbohydrates or proteins which are roughly 4 calories per 1 gram, fats are 7 to 9 (depending on the source) calories per gram. That means a fat dense food will contain much more calories by volume than something comprised of protein or carbs. This mindset works well with the paleolithic / primal diet that heavily emphasizes fat consumption. Furthermore, if you keep your carb levels sub 150g daily, you will avoid storing extra body fat. As a rule, try to consume 1g of protein per 1lb of bodyweight.

Here are some sample foods that I make a staple of my daily diet:
- Avocados
- Eggs
- Grass fed beef or flax fed chicken / turkey (Natural varieties have an improved lipid profile)
- Tempeh
- Whey protein (I take several shakes a day - each with 50g protein per serving)
- Carrots
- Spinach
- Olive Oil
- Organic Butter
- Organic Part Skim Mozzarella cheese
- Kefir
- Almonds (and Almond Butter)
- Pecans
- Walnuts
- Blueberries
- Hot peppers (Anaheim and Serrano varieties)
- Sugar snap peas
- Apples / Plums / Oranges, etc
- Cucumbers
- Broccoli

If you open Excel and start creating meals using those types of ingredients while minding the 55% fats, 30% protein, 15% carbs split, you will find it quite easy to reach 2000 or even 3000 calories a day. I often configure a salad with grilled beef, spinach, and other delicious vegetables that has 750 calories! That's just one meal. As you gain weight, your body will want to eat more to sustain itself and its higher activity levels so don't worry about needing to develop a massive appetite right away. Anyways, I hope this has been helpful

uhh don't try to gain muscles just to attract someone!
non muscular men are attractive too, all muscular men I met didn't show half the intelligence and care expressed by my boyfriend!
just be yourself and be understanding, that is more than anything

While I agree that exercising shouldn't be done only for attracting the opposite sex, you could see how your comment might be perceived as slightly insulting by perpetuating a negative stereotype. Imagine if I replaced "muscular men" with "black people." Not too nice, eh?

Besides, a recent Scientific American article recently cited a study where braincell growth was shown to increase due to daily physical exercise.

"The cells are not generated like clockwork, however. Instead their production can be influenced by a number of different environmental factors. For example, alcohol consumption has been shown to retard the generation of new brain cells. And their birth rate can be enhanced by exercise. Rats and mice that log time on a running wheel can kick out twice as many new cells as mice that lead a more sedentary life. Even eating blueberries seems to goose the ­generation of new neurons in the rat hippocampus."

http://www.sciam.com...new-brain-cells

Just had my 3rd workout. Took about an hour and was mostly biased towards upper-body. Question: How long do you rest between lifts? I find that I go through a couple of lifts, but then get tired and need to rest for a few minutes. When working out, should I be resting between lifts or is that counter-productive -- although I am going for muscle mass over tone. Maybe the creatine will help with that once it gets here, probably today or tomorrow.

[Luna]

uhh don't try to gain muscles just to attract someone!
non muscular men are attractive too, all muscular men I met didn't show half the intelligence and care expressed by my boyfriend!
just be yourself and be understanding, that is more than anything

While I agree that exercising shouldn't be done only for attracting the opposite sex, you could see how your comment might be perceived as slightly insulting by perpetuating a negative stereotype. Imagine if I replaced "muscular men" with "black people." Not too nice, eh?

Besides, a recent Scientific American article recently cited a study where braincell growth was shown to increase due to daily physical exercise.

"The cells are not generated like clockwork, however. Instead their production can be influenced by a number of different environmental factors. For example, alcohol consumption has been shown to retard the generation of new brain cells. And their birth rate can be enhanced by exercise. Rats and mice that log time on a running wheel can kick out twice as many new cells as mice that lead a more sedentary life. Even eating blueberries seems to goose the ­generation of new neurons in the rat hippocampus."

http://www.sciam.com...new-brain-cells

Uhh no! I didn't mean it as an insult.. just speaking from my own experience.
muscular guys can be physically attractive but it doesn't make them the right person and are not the only way to attract.
I just don't think it is right for ghostrider to start working hard to become muscular just because some women can't see him for who he is.

[Skötkonung]

Just had my 3rd workout. Took about an hour and was mostly biased towards upper-body. Question: How long do you rest between lifts? I find that I go through a couple of lifts, but then get tired and need to rest for a few minutes. When working out, should I be resting between lifts or is that counter-productive -- although I am going for muscle mass over tone. Maybe the creatine will help with that once it gets here, probably today or tomorrow.

You should be limiting your sets to 8 repetitions of good form. By the last rep, you should be struggling or even on the verge of failure. If you're working that hard, it is totally fine to be taking 1-5 minute breaks periodically. If you're needing to take longer breaks, you might be lifting too much or not working hard enough.

When you get the creatine, remember it takes about 1-2 weeks to start seeing any noticeable effects. It has to be loaded into your body.

Have you designed yourself a post-workout shake yet?

[Ghostrider]

I just don't think it is right for ghostrider to start working hard to become muscular just because some women can't see him for who he is.

I am not sure when you started reading the thread, but I mentioned that I am about 5'7" and around 120 pounds. Most women would be a bit uncomfortable dating a guy who is physically smaller than herself. I am just doing this as an experiment for now, who knows, maybe it won't make any difference at all, but there could be other benefits besides attraction.

You should be limiting your sets to 8 repetitions of good form. By the last rep, you should be struggling or even on the verge of failure. If you're working that hard, it is totally fine to be taking 1-5 minute breaks periodically. If you're needing to take longer breaks, you might be lifting too much or not working hard enough.

When you get the creatine, remember it takes about 1-2 weeks to start seeing any noticeable effects. It has to be loaded into your body.

I remember that from high school although I don't remember much benefit. Probably because I was not taking enough.

Have you designed yourself a post-workout shake yet?

I picked up some whey protein mix a few nights ago. Just about to have one.

By the way, after my 3rd workout today (been about 6 hours since), my arms feel tired, but not sore. How should they feel after a good workout? Shawn mentions that he usually feels some mild soreness, but if that does not happen, does that mean I am not working out properly?

Edited by Ghostrider, 03 March 2009 - 04:36 AM.

[Ghostrider]

Update: My muscles are sore from yesterday so it must have been a good workout. Should I workout the same muscles tomorrow if they are still sore or allow another day for recovery?

Edited by Ghostrider, 04 March 2009 - 06:24 AM.

[Skötkonung]

Update: My muscles are sore from yesterday so it must have been a good workout. Should I workout the same muscles tomorrow if they are still sore or allow another day for recovery?

You shouldn't work the same muscle group multiple days in a row. Allow at least 72 hrs between exercises working the same muscle group otherwise you will be doing more harm than good. If you look at either workout I posted, you'll see I added adequate time for each muscle group to repair.

Check out this article on the subject:
http://www.bodybuild...n/berardi34.htm

[sentinel]

Update: My muscles are sore from yesterday so it must have been a good workout. Should I workout the same muscles tomorrow if they are still sore or allow another day for recovery?

Shawn's right, If you look at the workout I gave you it has a good 3-4 days between workouts for any body part as you only grow during your rest/recovery days. You are only training once a day aren't you?

[Ghostrider]

Update: My muscles are sore from yesterday so it must have been a good workout. Should I workout the same muscles tomorrow if they are still sore or allow another day for recovery?

Shawn's right, If you look at the workout I gave you it has a good 3-4 days between workouts for any body part as you only grow during your rest/recovery days. You are only training once a day aren't you?

Yeah, I am only training once per day. I misread the schedule. I thought I workout the same muscles with one day of rest in between. Question, why not just work out 2 days / week on weights and work all the muscles. For example, Monday and Thursday, work all muscles on weights. Then on the in-between days, go on a run or something? I notice on your schedule above that back is only worked one day / week.

[TheFountain]

Women gravitate toward me much more so when I am bigger. I get stares when I go up to about 210 lbs (around 15% bf). I am usually ignored when I cut to 170 lb or so, at 7% bf.

I think this is not related to aesthetics, but has more to do with how one "stands out." Women want men who stand out, and size stands out, even if that includes some fat. I find this to be true for all types of women (e.g., educated, beautiful, etc.).

Also, in my experience, while leanness is aesthetically pleasing to women, it is not much of a factor in actually attracting them.

This is generally true in everyday life with clothing covering most of your body. Now go strolling down the beach in trunks only and the equation will change real quick.
You also have to factor in things like facial appearance which usually improves with lower bodyfat. Gaunt face is a different story.

What's the difference between a low body fat face and a gaunt one? Or is there any?

[TheFountain]

By the way this thread is the most ridiculous generalized crap I have read in a long time. 'women want guys with...'.

Uh, the female psyche is a bit more complicated than this. And it is in a constant state of ebb and flux. Todays attraction is tomorrows repulsion. Todays 'geek' is tomorrows studd. And there is a lot more manipulation going on than guys give women credit for. They have most of us trained like pets, to do what they want for their rewards, be it social or sexual, on task, on cue, ready to perform, without consciously realizing it. Is this the life of an immortalist? Being a slave to someone elses manipulations? Not to me it isn't. Do men base their standards of a female body on how low their body fat is? No, men seem to base it on whether or not the womans tits are further out than her belly, and that's about it. That said, I attract women who are individuals, who understand the importance of physical health, but who also do not take the mind and/or 'soul' of the one they seek for granted. And with that I strike a balance in my relationships between reasonable aesthetics and a healthy mindful connection with the girl I am with. We are both lean, fairly low body fat, but it is not our primary focus. We don't dwell on our health to treat each other like trained pets, we use it to move forward and evolve as a conscious unit.

Get this straight, the average woman is a shape shifter. she goes with whatever flow she feels she can manipulate. doesn't matter the body type of the men involved. Now, to find a unique woman who is both beautiful and brainy and does not allow herself to fall into that swamp of social manipulation, who does not use her gender as a social engineering tool, this is a rare thing. And I am glad I have found it. I hope other's do as well. Because conversations like this, if we can even call it a conversation, always end in a sad pile of generalized manure.

Edited by TheFountain, 05 March 2009 - 07:11 AM.

[sentinel]

That's great Fountain, I hope you continue being happy.

Now Ghost, you can do whole body workouts twice a week but from what you have said I think you (and indeed most) would struggle to maintain the level of intensity for all your body parts from beginning to end of the work out ie if you did legs, back then chest it would be stretching you at this stage to expect much from the chest workout as you would be too tired.

Re the frequency of Back etc the workout I gave rotates so you do not always do the same body parts on the same day. To illustrate:

Monday: Chest, Triceps, Shoulders

Tuesday: Rest or Aerobics

Wednesday: Back, Legs Biceps

Thursday: Rest or Aerobics

Friday: Chest, Triceps, Shoulders

Saturday, Sunday: Rest

Monday: Back, Legs Biceps

Tuesday: Rest or Aerobics

Wednesday: Chest, Triceps, Shoulders

...and so on. In this way you alternate between 3 and 4 days rest for your bodyparts allowing you to grow, and it just keeps things simple and a life at the weekend. Again the focus here needs to be on consistency and sticking with it for a couple of months at which point you can decide whether it's worth the effort.

Keep it up chap!

[CobaltThoriumG]

That's great Fountain, I hope you continue being happy.

Now Ghost, you can do whole body workouts twice a week but from what you have said I think you (and indeed most) would struggle to maintain the level of intensity for all your body parts from beginning to end of the work out ie if you did legs, back then chest it would be stretching you at this stage to expect much from the chest workout as you would be too tired.

Re the frequency of Back etc the workout I gave rotates so you do not always do the same body parts on the same day. To illustrate:

Monday: Chest, Triceps, Shoulders

Tuesday: Rest or Aerobics

Wednesday: Back, Legs Biceps

Thursday: Rest or Aerobics

Friday: Chest, Triceps, Shoulders

Saturday, Sunday: Rest

Monday: Back, Legs Biceps

Tuesday: Rest or Aerobics

Wednesday: Chest, Triceps, Shoulders

...and so on. In this way you alternate between 3 and 4 days rest for your bodyparts allowing you to grow, and it just keeps things simple and a life at the weekend. Again the focus here needs to be on consistency and sticking with it for a couple of months at which point you can decide whether it's worth the effort.

Keep it up chap!

I do the whole body twice weekly, Wednesday and Sunday. It works well enough for me. I think a lot of people would have energy and focus issues, though, for that long a workout. What helps me is drinking a meal in the middle and knowing I'm going to have three or four days out of the gym before doing it again. But I'm not trying to be Ronnie Coleman, just well built for my size and lean. So, it could work, but I'd stick to whatever you're already doing for two months or so before trying something else.

[icyT]

I believe it's valuable to weigh the pros and cons of the issue, and I think the ideal is a balance somewhere in the middle. Ronnie's not the best way, but neither is being a stick, IMO. It is always good to have a reservoir of more strength and cardiovascular/muscular endurance than you'll need for day to day events. This makes emergencies where you incur additional stress less stressful. More muscle is a reserve of catabolizable amino acids which your immune system may need.

There are also benefits related to vascular flexibility and lympathic movement. Another thing: being stronger saves energy. If you are stronger, your muscles learn to do work more efficiently. I'm not sure if that balances out the cost incurred in building the strength though, maybe not.

There are self esteem benefits to feeling fit and attractive, and to being able to have more relationships. There is also the direct benefit in being able to respond to threats which could incur more injury down the line.

For example: you can help to prevent osteoporosis, and have a better sense of balance. Breaking your hip really boosts the metabolism too, and not in a fun way.

[TheFountain]

There are self esteem benefits to feeling fit and attractive, and to being able to have more relationships.

I take issue that the quantity of relationships equates to anything meaningful. I can fuck a thousand attractive females in a year, but this would not add any meaning to any individual relationship that I had participated in thitherto or thereafter. Nor would it add anything meaningful to my self image. Nor would it do anything more than fucking the same girl a thousand times in a year would. Especially if the latter entailed a meaningful emotional connection that continued to grow and flourish as a result.

You know I would guess that around 95% of self esteem issues are created 'out there' as opposed to 'in here'. Regardless of what anyone says here, the number one reason guys want to look muscular is to impress other's. I even struggle with this myself at times. Asking myself 'am i doing it for me, or to unconsciously impress my girlfriend or other people around me?'. There is a balance to be struck, but as it stands far too much of our estimations of why we should work out is based on what is going on 'out there'. And we need to fix it. Social manipulation is no steady reason to keep oneself healthy. Because if it were then we would basically be calling ourselves puppets. I rather prefer the ouspenskian view that we are machines that need to be fixed, and that entails more than just mechanical corrections, but programming errors as well.

Edited by TheFountain, 08 March 2009 - 08:02 PM.

[Skötkonung]

Regardless of what anyone says here, the number one reason guys want to look muscular is to impress other's.

I agree, and I would go one further and say the only reason guys (both gay or straight) want to look muscular is to impress other guys. While yes, girls do like an athletic and balanced physique as it purveys an image of health and strength, the muscular extreme that many guys idealize is going too far. Take, for instance, an interview with Gregg Valentino:

Gregg, let's be real here: do you get a lot of ass [women] because of your arms?

Abso-f****in'-lutey not. I have short man complex. I have a Napoleon complex. Thank god I have a big dick, otherwise I'd be really f***ed. Look at me: I'm bald, I have two different colored eyes, I have a big nose, I'm short and squatty. But I get ass because I've got narrow hips, a big f***in' wang, and an ability to bulls*** with anybody. Girls are usually repulsed by me. They look at me like, "That's ri-god damned-diculous!" I'm a guy magnet. I attract stalkers. I walk through a nightclub and guys push their girlfriends aside to get to me and say, "Oh man, you've got big friggin' arms!" Being short, all I do is smell everybody's breath in the clubs. It's horrible.

You get the point...

[spacey]

uhh don't try to gain muscles just to attract someone!
non muscular men are attractive too, all muscular men I met didn't show half the intelligence and care expressed by my boyfriend!
just be yourself and be understanding, that is more than anything

While I agree that exercising shouldn't be done only for attracting the opposite sex, you could see how your comment might be perceived as slightly insulting by perpetuating a negative stereotype. Imagine if I replaced "muscular men" with "black people." Not too nice, eh?

Besides, a recent Scientific American article recently cited a study where braincell growth was shown to increase due to daily physical exercise.

"The cells are not generated like clockwork, however. Instead their production can be influenced by a number of different environmental factors. For example, alcohol consumption has been shown to retard the generation of new brain cells. And their birth rate can be enhanced by exercise. Rats and mice that log time on a running wheel can kick out twice as many new cells as mice that lead a more sedentary life. Even eating blueberries seems to goose the ­generation of new neurons in the rat hippocampus."

http://www.sciam.com...new-brain-cells

Uhh no! I didn't mean it as an insult.. just speaking from my own experience.
muscular guys can be physically attractive but it doesn't make them the right person and are not the only way to attract.
I just don't think it is right for ghostrider to start working hard to become muscular just because some women can't see him for who he is.

That's a really naive and unrealistic way to look at thing. Besides what does "seeing him for what he is" mean? It's abstract, I don't mean to sound like a chauvinist but most women can't honestly pinpoint what they are attracted to, neither can men.

[automita]

That's great Fountain, I hope you continue being happy.

Now Ghost, you can do whole body workouts twice a week but from what you have said I think you (and indeed most) would struggle to maintain the level of intensity for all your body parts from beginning to end of the work out ie if you did legs, back then chest it would be stretching you at this stage to expect much from the chest workout as you would be too tired.

Re the frequency of Back etc the workout I gave rotates so you do not always do the same body parts on the same day. To illustrate:

Monday: Chest, Triceps, Shoulders

Tuesday: Rest or Aerobics

Wednesday: Back, Legs Biceps
please do not do this
Thursday: Rest or Aerobics

Friday: Chest, Triceps, Shoulders

Saturday, Sunday: Rest

Monday: Back, Legs Biceps

Tuesday: Rest or Aerobics

Wednesday: Chest, Triceps, Shoulders

...and so on. In this way you alternate between 3 and 4 days rest for your bodyparts allowing you to grow, and it just keeps things simple and a life at the weekend. Again the focus here needs to be on consistency and sticking with it for a couple of months at which point you can decide whether it's worth the effort.

Keep it up chap!

[sentinel]

Well I can't fault your last post automita, I'd say you are bang on!! :-)

[TianZi]

Here's the dilemma: Most women are attracted to big and muscular guys. Being big and muscular requires a higher calorie diet. Restricting caloric intake extends life. So I either start working out, gaining muscle mass just to appear more attractive, or I continue doing what I am doing now and remain scrawny, but possible healthier depending on if the theory of calorie restriction is valid.

It's not simply restricting caloric intake that may extend life in humans, but restricting caloric intake significantly enough to exceed a certain threshold (while at the same time ensuring adequate intake of essential nutrients). You should know that scientists such as Aubrey de Gray believe that CR is unlikely to extend lifespan in humans more than a couple of years, although they may be wrong.

Resveratrol in even relatively low doses (800 mg. daily for a 150 lbs. person) is a partial CR mimetic per peer-reviewed studies, and at doses high enough to trigger SIRT1 activation it may also mirror CR's anti-cancer properties.

There are significant health benefits to resistance training besides cosmetic ones, by the way. These benefits become increasingly important as you age. And, although it's unlikely, what if you one day experience a crisis that requires a certain level of strength to save your own life, or a loved one's?

Ideal rest periods for resistance training will vary depending on your goals, personal fitness level, and genetics. Generally, a rest period of 60 seconds with 10 reps to failure is ideal for hypertrophy (gaining muscle mass), whereas 5 reps or fewer to exhaustion with rests of 3 minutes is ideal for gaining strength. However, compound exercises targeting larger muscles and groups of muscles may require a longer rest period for ideal hypertrophy results--for example, some studies have found the ideal rest period for gaining muscle mass from the bench press is 2 minutes.

If your goal is muscular endurance or power instead of (or in addition to) hypertrophy or strength, this will also affect how you should train.

Edited by TianZi, 22 March 2009 - 11:49 AM.