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Shoes Are Killing Us


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#31 nushu

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 05:48 PM

I didn't put shoes on my babies till they were over 18 months, I'd read it hurts foot development. They all three started walking at 9 months-and had great balance and large motor skills compared to other kids their age all through their toddler and pre-k years. When I do miles on my treadmill every day, I use a flat thong so that it is like bare foot, I've done this over the years as I feel it is better for my bones (the vibrations/impact), my posture and my foot strength. I'd love to try the Vibram, but can't figure out many places I could get away wearing them, my being a woman--they just wouldn't match much...



These looks like good shoes for kids http://www.jackandlily.com/

#32 nushu

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 06:20 PM

Shoes and body dysfunction http://www.eatmoveim...y-dysfunctions/

#33 e Volution

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 07:29 AM

I just posted this in another thread but also very relevant here

From the front cover of Nature! (Published online 27 January 2010)

Biomechanics: Barefoot running strikes back
http://www.nature.co...3/n7280/covers/
Detailed analyses of foot kinematics and kinetics in barefoot and shod runners offer a refined understanding of bipedalism in human evolution. This research will also prompt fresh studies of running injuries. A commitment to walking and running on two legs distinguishes humans from apes, and has long been the defining adaptation of the hominins — the lineages that include both humans and our extinct relatives. This form of locomotion (bipedalism) has been around for millions of years, and we have been unshod for more than 99% of that time1.

Also a GREAT accompanying video (must watch!!!!!!):
The Barefoot Professor: by Nature Video
Harvard professor Daniel Lieberman has ditched his trainers and started running barefoot. His research shows that barefoot runners, who tend to land on their fore-foot, generate less impact shock than runners in sports shoes who land heel first. This makes barefoot running comfortable and could minimize running-related injuries. Read more here and find the original research here


Even more:
Letter: Foot strike patterns and collision forces in habitually barefoot versus shod runners:
http://www.nature.co...ature08723.html
Humans have engaged in endurance running for millions of years1, but the modern running shoe was not invented until the 1970s. For most of human evolutionary history, runners were either barefoot or wore minimal footwear such as sandals or moccasins with smaller heels and little cushioning relative to modern running shoes. We wondered how runners coped with the impact caused by the foot colliding with the ground before the invention of the modern shoe. Here we show that habitually barefoot endurance runners often land on the fore-foot (fore-foot strike) before bringing down the heel, but they sometimes land with a flat foot (mid-foot strike) or, less often, on the heel (rear-foot strike). In contrast, habitually shod runners mostly rear-foot strike, facilitated by the elevated and cushioned heel of the modern running shoe. Kinematic and kinetic analyses show that even on hard surfaces, barefoot runners who fore-foot strike generate smaller collision forces than shod rear-foot strikers. This difference results primarily from a more plantarflexed foot at landing and more ankle compliance during impact, decreasing the effective mass of the body that collides with the ground. Fore-foot- and mid-foot-strike gaits were probably more common when humans ran barefoot or in minimal shoes, and may protect the feet and lower limbs from some of the impact-related injuries now experienced by a high percentage of runners.

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#34 leviathans

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 12:18 AM

I have one leg longer than the other so if I don't wear my orthosis my pelvic will be not aligned properly. In some cases (like mine) wearing shoes is much better than being barefoot.

#35 Athanasios

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 12:35 AM

Here we show that habitually barefoot endurance runners often land on the fore-foot (fore-foot strike) before bringing down the heel, but they sometimes land with a flat foot (mid-foot strike) or, less often, on the heel (rear-foot strike). In contrast, habitually shod runners mostly rear-foot strike, facilitated by the elevated and cushioned heel of the modern running shoe. Kinematic and kinetic analyses show that even on hard surfaces, barefoot runners who fore-foot strike generate smaller collision forces than shod rear-foot strikers.


Yeah, this is what I thought was happening. They do not know how to run. Most of the time I see people 'running' that are mainly hopping over and over again when it should be more of a 'pulling' forward. It is not hard to train yourself to run correctly with shoes (fore-foot strike). Personally, I would favor running correctly with shoes on vs. barefoot. It is true that wearing shoes allows one to run badly but demonizing shoes does not seem to be the ideal solution. Educate people how to run would be a much better alternative.

#36 e Volution

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 02:03 AM

I have one leg longer than the other so if I don't wear my orthosis my pelvic will be not aligned properly. In some cases (like mine) wearing shoes is much better than being barefoot.

Have you had an x-ray to determine if one leg is actually longer than the other, or are your legs the same length and its resulting from a muscle imbalance in yours hips or somewhere (which is way more common). If its the latter, then I would be inclined to try fix the cause of the problem rather than 'patch-up' the result. I successfully fixed my leg imbalance through stretching and strength training, and some physio/chiro work. I was told many times I would need orthotics and its bullshit, just like the saturated fat is bad and polyunsaturated fats are good nutrition advice we hear so much. None of the 'experts' I ever spoke to even considered evolutionary theory & reasoning or barefoot running in formulating their ideas!

Go to your doc who prescribed the orthosis and see what he thinks of barefoot running. I'll put my money on him recommending against going barefoot, probably for anyone, and that should be the point you realise he is a clueless idiot who is nowhere near the cutting edge on this stuff!

#37 e Volution

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 02:29 AM

Here we show that habitually barefoot endurance runners often land on the fore-foot (fore-foot strike) before bringing down the heel, but they sometimes land with a flat foot (mid-foot strike) or, less often, on the heel (rear-foot strike). In contrast, habitually shod runners mostly rear-foot strike, facilitated by the elevated and cushioned heel of the modern running shoe. Kinematic and kinetic analyses show that even on hard surfaces, barefoot runners who fore-foot strike generate smaller collision forces than shod rear-foot strikers.


Yeah, this is what I thought was happening. They do not know how to run. Most of the time I see people 'running' that are mainly hopping over and over again when it should be more of a 'pulling' forward. It is not hard to train yourself to run correctly with shoes (fore-foot strike). Personally, I would favor running correctly with shoes on vs. barefoot. It is true that wearing shoes allows one to run badly but demonizing shoes does not seem to be the ideal solution. Educate people how to run would be a much better alternative.

I really think you have missed the entire point!

With the thick heel, running shoes almost force you to adopt this running gait but when most people run barefoot they naturally alternate to the fore-foot strike. Running correctly in shoes still allows you to 'pound the pavement' and this generates higher forces up the chain in your ankles, knees and hips which is more likely to eventually result in injury.

Why would educating people be a much better alternative? Wouldn't going back to the 'shoes' we have been using for 99.9998% of our evolutionary history (modern running shoes developed in 1970s, modern humans ~200,000 years old) be a much better alternative?

The human foot is THE most advanced piece of running machinery on the planet! Far far more advanced than anything we can build artificially today. Do you really think some shoe company back in the 1970s outsmarted evolution? If our foot needed a thick heel it would have a thick heel! The foot in many ways is more complex than your hands, but can you imagine if all day you walked around with big gloves over your hands also, severely limiting their functionality? What frightened me was when you first start running barefoot after years of using running shoes you have to take it extremely-slowly cause all the muscles and tendons in your feet and ankles and legs are woefully untrained for how their actually meant to be used! What is the next study going to find about the difference between barefoot vs running shoes! I'll put my money on it being not pro-shoe!

EDIT: When I argue for barefoot I also mean 'barefoot shoes' such as Vibram FiveFingers. I understand there are some potential negatives regarding barefoot running in a modern world with broken glass and other nasty stuff around, but I think these are all taken care of with a barefoot shoe.

Edited by icantgoforthat, 14 February 2010 - 02:32 AM.


#38 leviathans

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 02:33 AM

I have one leg longer than the other so if I don't wear my orthosis my pelvic will be not aligned properly. In some cases (like mine) wearing shoes is much better than being barefoot.

Have you had an x-ray to determine if one leg is actually longer than the other, or are your legs the same length and its resulting from a muscle imbalance in yours hips or somewhere (which is way more common). If its the latter, then I would be inclined to try fix the cause of the problem rather than 'patch-up' the result. I successfully fixed my leg imbalance through stretching and strength training, and some physio/chiro work. I was told many times I would need orthotics and its bullshit, just like the saturated fat is bad and polyunsaturated fats are good nutrition advice we hear so much. None of the 'experts' I ever spoke to even considered evolutionary theory & reasoning or barefoot running in formulating their ideas!

Go to your doc who prescribed the orthosis and see what he thinks of barefoot running. I'll put my money on him recommending against going barefoot, probably for anyone, and that should be the point you realise he is a clueless idiot who is nowhere near the cutting edge on this stuff!


Some people have natural leg length discrepancy. It's not postural, my chiro have verified it and I've had 2 x-ray (one standing up, one on my back) showing that there was a difference in length. I also forgot to say that my feet turns inside(this is not flat feet), I don't remember how we call this, but it a genetic problem and it really makes me have balance issues, mostly when doing lunge/squat. I agree that some podiatrists(and many non-doctors) give orthotics for bad reasons when the problem is only structural/postural but in some cases, shoes and orthotics really helps. I'm sure that barefoot is better for the feet but if you have badly made feet or uneven legs it is necessary to wear shoes with orthotics for optimal health.

#39 nushu

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 04:32 PM

Here we show that habitually barefoot endurance runners often land on the fore-foot (fore-foot strike) before bringing down the heel, but they sometimes land with a flat foot (mid-foot strike) or, less often, on the heel (rear-foot strike). In contrast, habitually shod runners mostly rear-foot strike, facilitated by the elevated and cushioned heel of the modern running shoe. Kinematic and kinetic analyses show that even on hard surfaces, barefoot runners who fore-foot strike generate smaller collision forces than shod rear-foot strikers.


Yeah, this is what I thought was happening. They do not know how to run. Most of the time I see people 'running' that are mainly hopping over and over again when it should be more of a 'pulling' forward. It is not hard to train yourself to run correctly with shoes (fore-foot strike). Personally, I would favor running correctly with shoes on vs. barefoot. It is true that wearing shoes allows one to run badly but demonizing shoes does not seem to be the ideal solution. Educate people how to run would be a much better alternative.



It's not just about running, walking with a heel strike is also terrible for your knees and hips/low back. Look at the number of patients having joint replacement surgery. Also I don't think many people are advocating going barefoot, it's not practical. There are some great shoes like Vibram Five Fingers and Vivo Barefoot shoes which simulate the natural barefoot gait humans evolved with. The only time I'm barefoot is when I'm in my home.

Edited by nushu, 15 February 2010 - 04:33 PM.


#40 Athanasios

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 04:51 PM

It's not just about running, walking with a heel strike is also terrible for your knees and hips/low back. Look at the number of patients having joint replacement surgery. Also I don't think many people are advocating going barefoot, it's not practical. There are some great shoes like Vibram Five Fingers and Vivo Barefoot shoes which simulate the natural barefoot gait humans evolved with. The only time I'm barefoot is when I'm in my home.


I walk without heel strike as well. The exception is sometimes when I am walking with my girlfriend who is much shorter than me, which changes my gait. I have good proportions and have been an athlete most of my life, so it is likely the reasoning it is easier for me. I am all for shoes that help people walk or run correctly. The wording of a lot of these articles are extreme. It is marketed like a viral meme selling snake-oil (not saying it is snakeoil). I hope these shoes help a lot of people and a more foot friendly design becomes the norm.

#41 Mind

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 06:48 PM

When I was younger, from the age of 1 all the way up to around 16 I would go barefoot most of the warm season on the farm, from May through August. The only time I would wear shoes is if I was working with heavy machinery or when I went to town. I think back and am amazed at how "tough" the bottom of my feet were. There was virtually no surface on the farm that I could not walk or run on, including rocks or freshly cut grain fields. Broken glass, metal, or ceramics in the city would be a different story of course.

Even though I spent a lot of time going barefoot, I am now 39 and my joints are wearing out, so it is no guarantee of good joint health. Perhaps I just used them too much, lol.

I would buy one of the 5 finger shoes to try out but they are so expensive. Based on material cost alone, your would think they would be a lot cheaper.

#42 ajnast4r

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 07:04 PM

Bullshit.


HAHAHAHA..genius


i think whether or not shoes are of benefit or detriment is very individually variable. for me, i MUST have a strong arch support & support at the proximal end of the phalanges or i get bad foot & knee pain. walking barefoot for me is not even an option.

Edited by ajnast4r, 15 February 2010 - 07:09 PM.


#43 e Volution

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 12:38 PM

i think whether or not shoes are of benefit or detriment is very individually variable. for me, i MUST have a strong arch support & support at the proximal end of the phalanges or i get bad foot & knee pain. walking barefoot for me is not even an option.

Wrong. You've been brainwashed... Seriously all your problems almost definitely stem from the fact your feet are underdeveloped due to the very act of wearing shoes your whole life!

How to Strengthen Your (Bare, Flat) Feet

Around 20% of adults report having flat feet... Do you really think this is genetic? That would mean evolution is screwing up our feet with 1 out of every 5 people born needing a modification to their basic biomechanics... Your flat feet are actually a 'western disease'! A disease of civilisation cause you weren't born with it, you developed it, and its not reported outside of modern populations. Now unless you represent a small minority of people born with malformed feet, bad feet is not your fate.

'Conventional Wisdom' got it all wrong with shoes and feet. But I didn't think that surprised anyone any more...

#44 leviathans

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 04:18 PM

i think whether or not shoes are of benefit or detriment is very individually variable. for me, i MUST have a strong arch support & support at the proximal end of the phalanges or i get bad foot & knee pain. walking barefoot for me is not even an option.

Wrong. You've been brainwashed... Seriously all your problems almost definitely stem from the fact your feet are underdeveloped due to the very act of wearing shoes your whole life!

How to Strengthen Your (Bare, Flat) Feet

Around 20% of adults report having flat feet... Do you really think this is genetic? That would mean evolution is screwing up our feet with 1 out of every 5 people born needing a modification to their basic biomechanics... Your flat feet are actually a 'western disease'! A disease of civilisation cause you weren't born with it, you developed it, and its not reported outside of modern populations. Now unless you represent a small minority of people born with malformed feet, bad feet is not your fate.

'Conventional Wisdom' got it all wrong with shoes and feet. But I didn't think that surprised anyone any more...

It is not just about flat feet! There is many more problems related to the feet that are genetic. My mother and I have the same problem. I realized it when she always told me that she have big balance issues when doing lunge.

Human don't have a perfect body and biomechanic. Some people have bad feets, some have brain imbalances, ect, ect... I don't think it's such a rarity to have bad feet. Everybody have some problems due to bad genes, it's just normal.

Btw, how could people encourage having no shoes, I got a big bunch of warts on my feet when I was young just because I was barefoot in the gym changing room. Who would like to go barefoot in a big city, it would be unhygienic. I guess maybe we should try shoes with very very small elevation. But, wearing at least something on your feet is a must... Unless you want to get the homeless warts and diseases... Also, how would you cope with the rain/cold with no shoes... ?

Maybe having shoes would be better for most people in theory but in practice it's just not a good idea. The only possible good option, like I said, would be special shoes with very very low elevation.

Eidt : I just saw nushu post, so I guess I said all this for no reason lol

Edited by leviathans, 16 February 2010 - 04:23 PM.


#45 Shepard

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 06:20 PM

I go barefoot to cure my Necator americanus deficiency. Just makes good sense.

#46 ajnast4r

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 02:01 AM

I go barefoot to cure my Necator americanus deficiency. Just makes good sense.


lol

#47 jolly

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 11:09 PM

I love my Vibrams - I own 3 pairs, and they are practically all I wear. (Exceptions made for cold wet snow, and rock climbing)

If anyone wants them cheaper, the birthdayshoes forums have a seller who offers them for 20% off list price, and free shipping.

#48 e Volution

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 09:16 AM

Thank sillewater for this (go full screen its great quality)

<object width="400" height="225"><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="

View on Vimeo.

/><embed src="

View on Vimeo.

type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="600" height="338"></embed></object><p><a href="

View on Vimeo.

the Skill of Barefoot Running</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/ter...rraplana">Terra Plana</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>
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