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42 replies to this topic

#31 woly

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 01:56 AM

IMO folks get too caught up in changing routines too often. 2 weeks is barely getting started in a specific routine. A better approach that is time tested and proven is to simply stick to a program and consistently add small and even tiny amounts of weight every workout. Little gems such as magnetic plates and washers, etc. will allow you to milk a program for all it's worth while becoming stronger and stronger.


Bingo. Changing routines or exercises while the old ones are still working is about as pointless as an elliptical machine.


whats wrong with the elliptical machine? :(

#32 Shepard

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 03:06 AM

They are dreadful machines that strip away the very little dignity that most men have. Women seem to be able to use the machines quite well, though.

Edited by shepard, 07 September 2008 - 03:06 AM.


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#33 TianZi

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 06:28 AM

IMO folks get too caught up in changing routines too often. 2 weeks is barely getting started in a specific routine. A better approach that is time tested and proven is to simply stick to a program and consistently add small and even tiny amounts of weight every workout. Little gems such as magnetic plates and washers, etc. will allow you to milk a program for all it's worth while becoming stronger and stronger.


Bingo. Changing routines or exercises while the old ones are still working is about as pointless as an elliptical machine.


1. All of the research I am aware of supports the hypothesis that optimal strength and hypertrophy gains are obtained via a regimen that incorporates variation / periodization. The NSCA in its position paper on "Strength Training for Muscle Building" cites approvingly the following studies demonstrating the benefits of periodization:

Fleck, Periodized Strength Training: A Critical Review. J. Str. Cond. Res. 1999
Kraemer, et. al., Progression Models in Resistance Training for Healthy Adults, Med. Sci. Sports Exerc. 2002 [American College of Sports Medicine position stand]

Now, with that said, most of this research has focused on linear or nonlinear changes in volume and intensity, rather than changes in individual exercises. It is only more recently that the benefits of switching back and forth periodically (2 weeks, 1 month, etc) between exercises (targeting the same muscles) has been examined. To clarify, programs that incorporate variation don't require you to abandon an exercise.

I look forward to the published, peer-reviewed research you cite to support your position, Shephard.

2. Elliptical trainers are ideal for people who have knee or other joint problems, or have suffered such in the past. Personally, I run at high intensity 3 times a week, and use an elliptical trainer or bike (also at high intensity) the other 3 days I exercise, as any greater amount of running ultimately results in severe ankle and knee pain for me. At sufficient intensity, using an elliptical trainer should provide cardiovascular benefits that are similar to those obtained through running, etc. outdoors. Calorie consumption (if that's your concern) will be less than running outdoors, but it's much greater than "nil" as compared to calorie consumption at rest, as Shephard suggests.

Saying / implying using an elliptical trainer is "pointless" is hyperbole. Shephard may better appreciate the benefits of elliptical machines in about 10 years, when he is no longer 23-24 years old.

Edited by TianZi, 08 September 2008 - 06:45 AM.


#34 Shepard

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 12:36 PM

Saying / implying using an elliptical trainer is "pointless" is hyperbole. Shephard may better appreciate the benefits of elliptical machines in about 10 years, when he is no longer 23-24 years old.


Shepard will use an elliptical machine when he loses his testicles and you people learn to understand a joke.

I look forward to the published, peer-reviewed research you cite to support your position, Shephard.


Your entire response is based around some idea that periodization isn't part of proper programming. When linear progression no longer works, a proper program requires periodization for continued improvement. Swapping programs doesn't mean changing workout to workout, it means being fickle in utilized philosophy because you're impatient/lazy/stupid. This includes not following linear progression as long as possible (smaller jumps in weights as mustardseed suggested), or utilizing those smaller jumps in a periodized program.

Edited by shepard, 08 September 2008 - 05:24 PM.


#35 Ben

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 01:38 PM

They are a bit ghey. Second of course in that respect only to the stepper machine.

What's wrong with a stationary bike?

#36 katzenjammer

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Posted 11 September 2008 - 12:39 AM

Lift heavy. Primary movements - squat obviously. Just say no to machines. Sprint. Walk. Get outside. Climb a tree. Sprint some more. All of this goes for any age. Machines are useless, boring, and did I say useless? Hah!

#37 mustardseed41

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Posted 11 September 2008 - 01:08 AM

Lift heavy. Primary movements - squat obviously. Just say no to machines. Sprint. Walk. Get outside. Climb a tree. Sprint some more. All of this goes for any age. Machines are useless, boring, and did I say useless? Hah!


Machines never have been and never will be useless. I guess the ring training I've added in my training is useless also.

Edited by mustardseed41, 11 September 2008 - 01:11 AM.


#38 Shepard

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Posted 11 September 2008 - 05:03 AM

What's wrong with a stationary bike?


I've not used a stationary bike since one fateful day at a cardio bunny gym when there were....bloodflow issues. It was an odd, traumatizing experience. But I rode the hell out of that bike until things settled down.

#39 Ben

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Posted 11 September 2008 - 01:00 PM

What's wrong with a stationary bike?


I've not used a stationary bike since one fateful day at a cardio bunny gym when there were....bloodflow issues. It was an odd, traumatizing experience. But I rode the hell out of that bike until things settled down.


They use the cardio machines at my gym but they're no bunnies. Usually I'm staring at a working mum who's been filling up on snack bars after work.

This may sound like an odd request but does anyone know what movement would fill out my mid to lower back?

#40 Shepard

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Posted 11 September 2008 - 03:55 PM

This may sound like an odd request but does anyone know what movement would fill out my mid to lower back?


Low bar squats, deadlifts and all the variations, back extensions, reverse hyper, pullthroughs, KB swings, sledgehammer swings, tire flipping. Lots of stuff.

#41 katzenjammer

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Posted 11 September 2008 - 06:31 PM

Lift heavy. Primary movements - squat obviously. Just say no to machines. Sprint. Walk. Get outside. Climb a tree. Sprint some more. All of this goes for any age. Machines are useless, boring, and did I say useless? Hah!


Machines never have been and never will be useless. I guess the ring training I've added in my training is useless also.


Ring training is awesome! Why, my good man, would you conclude otherwise?

On machines - what do you think they're good for? I can see their use in rehabilitation and in some other similar limited contexts. 99% of the people I see on machines are perfectly capable of doing, say, bodyweight exercises/pilates, which are in every respect superior to machines (obviously barring some limiting injury or handicap).

#42 katzenjammer

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Posted 11 September 2008 - 09:19 PM

This may sound like an odd request but does anyone know what movement would fill out my mid to lower back?


Low bar squats, deadlifts and all the variations, back extensions, reverse hyper, pullthroughs, KB swings, sledgehammer swings, tire flipping. Lots of stuff.


Yes, and front squats and overhead squats.

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#43 sentinel

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 09:22 AM

[/quote]
This may sound like an odd request but does anyone know what movement would fill out my mid to lower back?
[/quote]

Digging! I've just spent the last couple of days spreading 5 tonnes of hardcore (leave it, Shepard) to form a base for my drive using a shovel and wheel barrow. Great lower-back breaking/building stuff.




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