• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
- - - - -

Is CR an eating disorder?


  • Please log in to reply
20 replies to this topic

#1 spaceistheplace

  • Guest
  • 397 posts
  • 4
  • Location:Sacramento

Posted 18 September 2008 - 06:11 PM


I read an interesting passage from a book called "Nourishing Wisdom" by Marc David:

"It is interesting to note that in contrast to women who use excess food and body weight to hide sexuality and feminine expression, some men use a lack of food and decreased body weight to deny their masculine side. The "disappearing man," as I call him, is afraid to be male and hence shuns such qualities as strength, dominance, action, and aggression. He is confused and dissatisfied with the ideal images that society attaches to men: the violent macho style, the sexual hype, and the cool unemotional mask. He lacks effective role models and feels alone in his symbolic journey into manhood. Consequently, he takes what seems to be the best available option: He chooses not to be a man.
The disappearing man uses food to manifest his internal psychological state. He eats very little and creates a body that is slender or frail. His appetite decreases because for a man, to eat is symbolically to become more embodied, more alive, stronger, and more "male". In denying the masculine element his female characteristics are therefore emphasized."

I know CR people can provide endless scientific papers detailing the validity of their lifestyle. But could the stress accumulated from constant calorie counting and management of macronutrient ratios be less desirable with regards to maximum lifespan than simply eating what feels right (within certain limits, naturally) and becoming happy with our bodies? By suppressing the desire for a truly nourishing meal do we doing ourselves actual harm?

#2 Athanasios

  • Guest
  • 2,616 posts
  • 163
  • Location:Texas

Posted 18 September 2008 - 06:36 PM

I know CR people can provide endless scientific papers detailing the validity of their lifestyle. But ...

I don't see how you can write off those 'scientific papers' on a whim. Eating disorders harm and are for unhealthy reasons, whereas CR with Optimal Nutrition does not harm and are solely for health. CRON does not need a 'nourishing meal' aside that from optimal nutrition. Maybe I am just confused about the question, context, or?

#3 Mind

  • Life Member, Director, Moderator, Treasurer
  • 19,074 posts
  • 2,000
  • Location:Wausau, WI

Posted 18 September 2008 - 06:39 PM

An eating disorder would be something that causes harm to the mind or body. CRON creates good health.

#4 Matt

  • Guest
  • 2,862 posts
  • 149
  • Location:United Kingdom
  • NO

Posted 18 September 2008 - 07:53 PM

By suppressing the desire for a truly nourishing meal do we doing ourselves actual harm?


You've never seen the size/volume of my meals.... enough said

#5 sentrysnipe

  • Guest
  • 491 posts
  • 5

Posted 18 September 2008 - 08:22 PM

By suppressing the desire for a truly nourishing meal do we doing ourselves actual harm?


You've never seen the size/volume of my meals.... enough said


Your recent albumin value is borderline high.. dehydrated much? potassium is low.. Do all of those blood work cost you anything in the UK?

#6 Matt

  • Guest
  • 2,862 posts
  • 149
  • Location:United Kingdom
  • NO

Posted 18 September 2008 - 08:24 PM

By suppressing the desire for a truly nourishing meal do we doing ourselves actual harm?


You've never seen the size/volume of my meals.... enough said


Your recent albumin value is borderline high.. dehydrated much? potassium is low.. Do all of those blood work cost you anything in the UK?


Stomach bug at the same time as taking blood samples. Plus High albumin and low cholesterol is associated with better outcomes than low cholesterol + low albumin. And no, they cost me nothing. It's like my body been trying to regain balance over the last 12 months after my cipro poison thing... so I wasn't expecting perfect values to come back anyway.

Edited by Matt, 18 September 2008 - 08:25 PM.


#7 sentrysnipe

  • Guest
  • 491 posts
  • 5

Posted 18 September 2008 - 08:27 PM

God, they're all free. Wow :) (bitter)

#8 JLL

  • Guest
  • 2,192 posts
  • 161

Posted 18 September 2008 - 08:33 PM

And again the useless rationalization of not wanting to do CR...

#9 VictorBjoerk

  • Member, Life Member
  • 1,763 posts
  • 91
  • Location:Sweden

Posted 18 September 2008 - 09:45 PM

Is there anyone here who thinks CR could be so effective that it could lead to a lifespan of 110+ years?

#10 4eva

  • Guest
  • 426 posts
  • 4

Posted 18 September 2008 - 09:50 PM

What is the explanation for low potassium. I'm not sure where these results are posted so I have no idea how low it is. But low potassium is not something to ignore.

I question the optimal nutrition part. What methods are employed to ensure the CR person is getting optimal nutrition?

Basic blood tests can not reveal all possible problems so how is it possible to know that you are getting optimal nutrition?

#11 Live Forever

  • Guest Recorder
  • 7,475 posts
  • 9
  • Location:Atlanta, GA USA

Posted 19 September 2008 - 03:11 AM

CR is definitely not an eating disorder. It is specifically undertaken to improve health and increase lifespan. If you are going to broaden the definition of "eating disorder" that far, then any type of diet could be classified as such.

#12 zawy

  • Guest
  • 291 posts
  • 46
  • Location:USA

Posted 19 September 2008 - 01:29 PM

I recently posted about my CR practices and after reading my message I wondered if anyone's "eating disorder" bells would go off. Yes, CR could be correlated with an ED just like exercise. But i don't think exercise or CR should be used as guides in determining an ED. Also, if proper CR is being followed, then by definition it is not an ED. ED implies doing something bad for health, and CRON is the opposite, "eating for optimal lifespan", which implies greater health order than disorder.

But CR like exercise and supplements could be an example of a "health disorder" meaning one is sacrificing too much time and effort just to be healthy and/or live longer. I think this might be what the original poster is intuitively thinking about. I like to do CR, supplements, and exercise for "achievement" and happiness reasons. But who's to say being fat and lazy is not just as admirable and successful? Linus Pauling wrote in 1986 that if you get enough net pleasure from smoking, the 15 minutes of life you lose for each one might be worth it. But i think that's too simplistic because it decreases your health and attractiveness 24 hours a day.

We remember nothing of our achievements once we're dead. "Rogues, would you live forever?" - Frederick the Great to his retreating army

#13 kismet

  • Guest
  • 2,984 posts
  • 424
  • Location:Austria, Vienna

Posted 19 September 2008 - 01:53 PM

Is there anyone here who thinks CR could be so effective that it could lead to a lifespan of 110+ years?

Definitely. If someone like calment practised severe CR I believe in close to 130years. But on a more serious note, if you mean an increase in average life span of 25 years? No. Do you mean maximum lfie span (10% survivorship)? Maybe.

However, this has been thoroughly discussed in another thread already and still there are only opnions, no facts.

On topic: some people would classify it as orthorexia, but this goes completely against the definition of eating disorders (compulsive, causing harm)... so it would be a wrong classification.

zawy, it's "Hunde, wollt ihr ewig leben?" literally "Dogs, do you want to live forever?", but your translation is correct, as "dog" is used as a derogatory term for people. Thank you for reminding me of that quote, I love it.

#14 Heliotrope

  • Guest
  • 1,145 posts
  • 0

Posted 19 September 2008 - 11:20 PM

CR is not eating disorder, but i like my appetite and good food and trying not to consciously limit calories. I like to enjoy a nice, satisfying meal. I'm 22 but want to wait till 25 or 26 y.o. for CR. I want myself completely developed, completely done with whatever growing. I've basically stopped growing in height over the last few years (been ~6'2 for a while) and feel my brain power reached peak capacity by 18 or 19, tho supps may help a bit, but unlikely to increase IQ much.

I'd give it a few years to play it safe. When I turn 25 or 26, i'll know for sure.


I "practice" IF. I find that when i take quite a lot of stimulants like caffiene , energy drinks, even adrafinil, I lose appetite and don't want to eat a lot. Stimulants => Eating Less.

Sometimes when i'm a bit over-zealous and desperate and swallowed a few caffiene pills in a row and accidentally drink other caffienated products, i defecate and even puke/vomit/throw-up so my stomach is nearly empty and end up w/ "forced" intermittant fasting for as long as 24-36 hours with upset stomach but i always end up eating relatively large meals when breaking the fast and w/ stomach feeling better. I'll try more adrafinil/modafinil and that should be better than caffeine, and only use caffeine pills and heavily caffeinated drink to keep bowel movements regular and ease defecation process.


I'd eventually ease into CR in several years when I enter mid to late 20s and consciously eating less during 30s, 40s when metabolism slows, gradually increasing CR % , enough to still keep a thin figure in middle age.
I'm fit but Un-muscular. I can easily finish a half-marathon or marathon to burn off calories tho. I fear I may be too busy to do much exercise, and to help add some years and live very long, some CR'll be good eventually.

IF does not seem to be as good on life extension as CR though. most of the IF I do is due to taking stimulants/alertness aids. Occasionally, a lil fasting is good, esp when the opportunity occurs

Edited by HYP86, 19 September 2008 - 11:40 PM.


#15 Johan

  • Guest, F@H
  • 472 posts
  • 9
  • Location:Sweden

Posted 20 September 2008 - 12:14 AM

Like many people here, I think CR is the opposite of an eating disorder, since the main focus of CR is to enhance health (and it seems to work pretty well so far).
I'm practicing CR, and I have to say that I actually enjoy food a lot more now than before. Healthy food, that is. :)

#16 luv2increase

  • Guest
  • 2,529 posts
  • 37
  • Location:Ohio

Posted 20 September 2008 - 05:38 PM

I would bet that there would be a significant number of people doing CR which are doing it as a scapegoat for a more serious underlying problem.


Do any of you on CR think you are fat :-D I've read a lot of you think you actually look healthy; that is just as bad as well.

Edited by luv2increase, 20 September 2008 - 05:38 PM.


#17 Johan

  • Guest, F@H
  • 472 posts
  • 9
  • Location:Sweden

Posted 20 September 2008 - 06:06 PM

Depending on intonation, that could be taken as an insult to CR practicioners. I, for one, do not consider myself fat. On the contrary, I am well aware of my thinness, and in an ideal world, I would like a bit more muscle. But if it means giving up the health benefits of CR, I'd rather stay thin.

#18 Matt

  • Guest
  • 2,862 posts
  • 149
  • Location:United Kingdom
  • NO

Posted 20 September 2008 - 06:44 PM

I'd love to gain 20 lbs! :D I don't look in the mirror and see myself as fat either, I see what looks like a skinny kid lol. I see just how thin I am, I don't like it really, but you just have to live with it. I think the prolem is people are trying to diagnose CRers as having some eating disorder when they have no proper education in this kind of stuff, anorexia and orthorexia is more than just being thin. CR leads to health and longevity. Anorexia and Orthorexia to extremes can lead to death. And right there is the most important point. NO ONE claims anorexia extends maximum lifespan.

If anyone has the eating disorder it is the general population on western diets, who are deficient in many minerals, vitamins and slowly killing themselves. To me that is the eating disorder of our time.

Edited by Matt, 20 September 2008 - 06:49 PM.


#19 luv2increase

  • Guest
  • 2,529 posts
  • 37
  • Location:Ohio

Posted 20 September 2008 - 07:33 PM

I would like a bit more muscle. But if it means giving up the health benefits of CR, I'd rather stay thin.



There are a multitude of health benefits of having a good amount of muscle mass which CR practitioners are missing out on. This aspect alone has not been accounted for in all the CR studies done thus far. Feeling good about ones appearance is vital for longevity. It is a breath of fresh air knowing that you look healthy look people. Talk about ridding any thoughts of insecurity; looking good does this extremely well. It also makes up if you are considered ugly from the neck up!

#20 Johan

  • Guest, F@H
  • 472 posts
  • 9
  • Location:Sweden

Posted 20 September 2008 - 10:26 PM

There are a multitude of health benefits of having a good amount of muscle mass which CR practitioners are missing out on. This aspect alone has not been accounted for in all the CR studies done thus far. Feeling good about ones appearance is vital for longevity. It is a breath of fresh air knowing that you look healthy look people. Talk about ridding any thoughts of insecurity; looking good does this extremely well. It also makes up if you are considered ugly from the neck up!

I am feeling good about my appearance. And, at least in my opinion, the multitude of studies on the benefits of CR outweigh the ones on exercise. Of course, there are people like Jack LaLanne, for example, but he has basically put all of his life into exercise, and even he seems to be suffering from age-related diseases nowadays.

I, on the other hand, don't have to put all of my life into CR - I just have to keep track of what I eat, which is comparatively easy.
(And as a side effect, I think it's easier to find good-looking clothes that fit you if you're slim. But that's just vanity :-D )

#21 Ben

  • Guest
  • 2,010 posts
  • -2
  • Location:South East

Posted 20 September 2008 - 11:37 PM

I read an interesting passage from a book called "Nourishing Wisdom" by Marc David:

"It is interesting to note that in contrast to women who use excess food and body weight to hide sexuality and feminine expression, some men use a lack of food and decreased body weight to deny their masculine side. The "disappearing man," as I call him, is afraid to be male and hence shuns such qualities as strength, dominance, action, and aggression. He is confused and dissatisfied with the ideal images that society attaches to men: the violent macho style, the sexual hype, and the cool unemotional mask. He lacks effective role models and feels alone in his symbolic journey into manhood. Consequently, he takes what seems to be the best available option: He chooses not to be a man.
The disappearing man uses food to manifest his internal psychological state. He eats very little and creates a body that is slender or frail. His appetite decreases because for a man, to eat is symbolically to become more embodied, more alive, stronger, and more "male". In denying the masculine element his female characteristics are therefore emphasized."

I know CR people can provide endless scientific papers detailing the validity of their lifestyle. But could the stress accumulated from constant calorie counting and management of macronutrient ratios be less desirable with regards to maximum lifespan than simply eating what feels right (within certain limits, naturally) and becoming happy with our bodies? By suppressing the desire for a truly nourishing meal do we doing ourselves actual harm?



I'm not trying to reduce my intake of calories because I am confused about my manliness.

And if anything excess fat on a man feminises.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users