29 replies to this topic

[lucid]

Kind of an old study (2001) but I had never seen it before. Good to know since I have been doing old fashioned crunches and six inches (though 6 inches wasn't tested)
The Best and Worst Abdominal Exercises
http://www.acefitnes...AbExercises.pdf
 Ab_Workout_chart.jpg   309.22KB   48 downloads
The study measured muscular activity in the Rectus Abdominus (which is the the center of your abs) and also in the obliques (which are the sides). There is some pretty big variation here.

[sentinel]

Thanks Lucid. Abs often get overlooked by hardcore trainers in the "it's all about compound movements and body fat" mentality or overemphasized by the ill-informed, hopeful spot-reducers trying to crunch their way to a trim waistline (jeeezus!).

I like to thrown in some cycle-style crunches but if I get carried away my upper abs stick out almost as much as my chest; Net result - you look fat in clothes!

What do you do?

Sentinel

[Athanasios]

I was willing to bet money that if Lsit or Vsit was on there it mas going to be #1; however, the windsheild wiper may win out over Lsit, dunno (Lshaped front lever where legs are swung back and forth like wipers). Well, captain's chair is the sissy version of Lsit and it was #1 or 2. I am sure there are even better gymnastic moves (front lever?) but they should probably be ruled out as requiring too high of a fitness level. I wonder where turkish getup would score as it does well for me.

[Shepard]

These studies looking at cross-sectional activation rarely seem to mimic real world results. Loading could be the largest reason why.

[Athanasios]

These studies looking at cross-sectional activation rarely seem to mimic real world results. Loading could be the largest reason why.

So where would you place your money?

[Mind]

The best thing for my abs (appearance-wise) was the ketogenic diet. Get rid of the belly fat and you don't have to worry as much about having huge muscles in that region. Otherwise I usually mix it up and get generally good results.

[Shepard]

So where would you place your money?

It depends on what one is going for. The work by McGill would throw most rotational or hyperextension exercises out of the equation from a pure spinal health perspective. And athletes would need to tailor to their specific sports. In general, though, I'm a fan of the gymnastic moves as you mentioned and heavy work in more traditional exercises (suitcase deadlifts, weighted GHR situps, unilateral pressing/carrying/throwing, TGUs, etc.)

I'd put my money on the gymnastic moves being the best bet for maximum effect with minimal risk.

[mustardseed41]

I'd put my money on the gymnastic moves being the best bet for maximum effect with minimal risk.

As someone who's done traditional ab exercises for years and years, i concur. I recently aquired a set of olympic rings and WOW, your abs are getting blasted with almost any movement you do on these things. Parallettes work great also.

[lucid]

Well, i just did the 'bicycle maneuver' (also called the 'bicycle crunch') for the first time an hour ago. And I have to say, I was impressed. It seems like it wouldn't be difficult, but it gets my abs feeling the burn very quickly. With normal crunches I normally get generally tired or uncomfortable before I really feel much of a burn; however, this exercise is quite comfortable, allows easy breathing, and it certainly feels like it targets the abs very specifically.

I have done the captains chair exercise before, but I don't recall being that impressed. Im going to make sure my technique is right then try again tomorrow.

[porthose]

These studies looking at cross-sectional activation rarely seem to mimic real world results. Loading could be the largest reason why.

So where would you place your money?

i would put my money on front squats and overhead squats to give you that powerful midsection. also, exercises like 'the flag' put enormous strain on the muscle of the mid section. the ab roller or evil wheel as its known in some areas of the world is brilliant. the jack knife push up will also develop powerful abs. heavy deadlifts will also give powerful abs.

basically, like shepard said, when you place the abs under a load, you will get them strong.

[Shepard]

i would put my money on front squats and overhead squats to give you that powerful midsection.

Front squats definitely work the TVA in a way not much else does. Those combined with heavy overhead work will go a long way toward building thick musculature without much dedicated torso work (athletes will certainly need more).

I've found that overhead squats just pound your weaknesses, whatever they may be. Conditioning included.

[Healthy Skeptic]

Sentinel brings up a good point - if you do enough work on your abs your midsection is going to look bigger, and that could mean looking fat while wearing a shirt. The same thing happened to me, and this is why I no longer do dedicated ab/oblique workouts. Deadlifts and squats give my abs plenty of mass, and my diet keeps them uncovered. I prefer being a V to being a square that looks chunky when clothed.

[Shepard]

There is a strong set of abs, and then there are the V-shaped people. You can't have it both ways.

[Healthy Skeptic]

I have lost a great deal of strength in my abs but it hasn't really affected my day to day life so I live with it

[Shepard]

Certainly, I didn't mean to imply that training for maximum strength was inherently better than training for physique. Looking like a brick is just a side effect of thick muscles around the torso. It's hard to keep that V without androgenic assistance to build up the shoulders and lats beyond normal limitations.

Edited by shepard, 21 October 2008 - 12:09 AM.

[4eva]

You can strengthen your core by learning how to engage your tranverse abdominus (TA).

It isn't really an exercise or a workout; but the DVD to learn this technique or posture is called The 5 Minute Workout.

There are some exercises that work the TA but that isn't the same. The TA is supposed to be worked only slight to moderately (5 to 20% I think).

This muscle is like a natural girdle. It starts at one side of the spine and goes around your trunk to the other side of your spine. In the front, it runs from the pubic bone to the rib cage. Its the deepest muscle in your ab area. It may also be the largest too.

Learning to engage it throughtout your day can not only strengthen your core and improve posture but also increase calorie expenditure as you use this rarely used muscle. When engaged it makes your torso look longer and leaner.

If you learn to engage this muscle you strengthen your core and improve your workouts. You can also eliminate any muscle tension in the shoulders or neck. Not using this muscle causes the neck and shoulders muscles to pick up the slack created by the bad posture and alignment we can be prone to. If you rest your back on the back of a chair then you are not using your TA.

You only need to engage this muscle for a total of 5 minutes a day (as a start). Learning to use this muscle is not that easy because it is seriously neglected. But once you develop the habit of doing 5 minutes a day it can become almost second nature or a habit.

The DVD shows three different steps you do while sitting, standing or lying to know that you are engaging the TA.

http://www.the5minuteworkout.com/

[lucid]

You can strengthen your core by learning how to engage your tranverse abdominus (TA).

It isn't really an exercise or a workout; but the DVD to learn this technique or posture is called The 5 Minute Workout.

There are some exercises that work the TA but that isn't the same. The TA is supposed to be worked only slight to moderately (5 to 20% I think).

This muscle is like a natural girdle. It starts at one side of the spine and goes around your trunk to the other side of your spine. In the front, it runs from the pubic bone to the rib cage. Its the deepest muscle in your ab area. It may also be the largest too.

Learning to engage it throughtout your day can not only strengthen your core and improve posture but also increase calorie expenditure as you use this rarely used muscle. When engaged it makes your torso look longer and leaner.

If you learn to engage this muscle you strengthen your core and improve your workouts. You can also eliminate any muscle tension in the shoulders or neck. Not using this muscle causes the neck and shoulders muscles to pick up the slack created by the bad posture and alignment we can be prone to. If you rest your back on the back of a chair then you are not using your TA.

You only need to engage this muscle for a total of 5 minutes a day (as a start). Learning to use this muscle is not that easy because it is seriously neglected. But once you develop the habit of doing 5 minutes a day it can become almost second nature or a habit.

The DVD shows three different steps you do while sitting, standing or lying to know that you are engaging the TA.

http://www.the5minuteworkout.com/

I don't exactly understand how one would make a full dvd about a 5 minute workout. Looks like the site wants you to pay to learn about their '5 minute workout secret'; hence I am very skeptical. Is the idea you flex your core muscles through out the day?

[porthose]

You can strengthen your core by learning how to engage your tranverse abdominus (TA).

It isn't really an exercise or a workout; but the DVD to learn this technique or posture is called The 5 Minute Workout.

There are some exercises that work the TA but that isn't the same. The TA is supposed to be worked only slight to moderately (5 to 20% I think).

This muscle is like a natural girdle. It starts at one side of the spine and goes around your trunk to the other side of your spine. In the front, it runs from the pubic bone to the rib cage. Its the deepest muscle in your ab area. It may also be the largest too.

Learning to engage it throughtout your day can not only strengthen your core and improve posture but also increase calorie expenditure as you use this rarely used muscle. When engaged it makes your torso look longer and leaner.

If you learn to engage this muscle you strengthen your core and improve your workouts. You can also eliminate any muscle tension in the shoulders or neck. Not using this muscle causes the neck and shoulders muscles to pick up the slack created by the bad posture and alignment we can be prone to. If you rest your back on the back of a chair then you are not using your TA.

You only need to engage this muscle for a total of 5 minutes a day (as a start). Learning to use this muscle is not that easy because it is seriously neglected. But once you develop the habit of doing 5 minutes a day it can become almost second nature or a habit.

The DVD shows three different steps you do while sitting, standing or lying to know that you are engaging the TA.

http://www.the5minuteworkout.com/

I don't exactly understand how one would make a full dvd about a 5 minute workout. Looks like the site wants you to pay to learn about their '5 minute workout secret'; hence I am very skeptical. Is the idea you flex your core muscles through out the day?

yeah me neither. it actually doesn't work - sorry 4eva...

TA work was advocated back in the 90s by physiotherapists who would have you 'engage' your abs by sucking in your belly in order to get that close to your spine in the mistaken belief that it will strengthen the abs. this was later taken up by 'expert' fitness enthusiasts and marketed to people. it just doesn't work period, either for olympic gymnastics athletes or normal folk who have no desire to compete but just to do good, quality exercise and conditioning work.

if you want strong abs, get someone knowledgeable to teach you how to front and overhead squat. go on, i know you can do it!

the argument of 'do you want strong abs or a v shape' is meaningless. it brings up all sorts of other issues...

ive seen gym junkies who have fabulous looking abdominals and yet ive said to them, 'get on your stomach lying face down and outstretch with your feet together and your arms out in front stretched with your hands together'. now i ask them to jacknife up as high as possible and hardly anyone can do that with the exception of a couple of people. what about jacknifing up with 1 arm and the opposite leg? if someone can do that, then they have outstanding (not just core) but overall physical strength.

and what about some of the boxers who have no definition in their abs and yet can take powerful after powerful hits? these guys have fantastic abdominal strength.

why waste time? - get strong by doing the appropriate exercises that will get you strong abdominals. combine that with a decent diet and some quality strength endurance work (hello snatches!) and you'll be ripped in no time.

[sentinel]

The best thing for my abs (appearance-wise) was the ketogenic diet. Get rid of the belly fat and you don't have to worry as much about having huge muscles in that region. Otherwise I usually mix it up and get generally good results.

From an aesthetics standpoint (ie 90+% people's motivation) that's pretty much it. Just have low enough bodyfat and don't over develop you obliques, (someone pleeeese stop people doing heavy dumbell side-bends to "trim body fat off their mid-section").

[4eva]

My local PBS station runs this program during pledge drives. You might see her program on a (US) PBS station if you can find it in the schedule sometime.

It takes more than 30 minutes of video to teach you the proper technique that requires only 5 minutes a day to start.

Its not easy to learn. This muscle is deep. You can't just flex it. You need to learn proper alignment of you pelvis, shoulders and rib cage to engage this muscle.

The technique is the hard part to learn. But once you know the technique it doesn't require much practice time.

This muscle is important. It is a big part of your core. Yet so many people never engage it throughout their day.

You can do exercises that work this muscle like the plank but its not the same thing. Working the muscle while doing the plank is not teaching you how to use (or engage) this muscle when you sit, stand or lie down. So flexing the muscle while doing the plank is not learning how to engage your core.

You can engage your core anytime you want or need throughout your day if you take the time to learn this technique. But it requires some effort to learn the technique.

I've seem some independent info on the web about how important this muscle is. Most other sources just mention exercises. The muscle is not supposed to be worked that hard, only moderately at most.

[Shepard]

That reads like an advertisement for Kegels.

[porthose]

My local PBS station runs this program during pledge drives. You might see her program on a (US) PBS station if you can find it in the schedule sometime.

It takes more than 30 minutes of video to teach you the proper technique that requires only 5 minutes a day to start.

Its not easy to learn. This muscle is deep. You can't just flex it. You need to learn proper alignment of you pelvis, shoulders and rib cage to engage this muscle.

The technique is the hard part to learn. But once you know the technique it doesn't require much practice time.

This muscle is important. It is a big part of your core. Yet so many people never engage it throughout their day.

You can do exercises that work this muscle like the plank but its not the same thing. Working the muscle while doing the plank is not teaching you how to use (or engage) this muscle when you sit, stand or lie down. So flexing the muscle while doing the plank is not learning how to engage your core.

You can engage your core anytime you want or need throughout your day if you take the time to learn this technique. But it requires some effort to learn the technique.

I've seem some independent info on the web about how important this muscle is. Most other sources just mention exercises. The muscle is not supposed to be worked that hard, only moderately at most.

oh dear....

4eva, you've been seriously hoodwinked.

[eternaltraveler]

I was willing to bet money that if Lsit or Vsit was on there it mas going to be #1

I agree, hands down.

[Shepard]

Bunch of Crossfit women.

[quarter]

Interesting article from T-Nation: Death to Crunching

[mustardseed41]

Interesting article from T-Nation: Death to Crunching

Cool article. Thanks for sharing. I love this quote: "Athletes who move in many directions, and have to control their limbs in a variety of positions, have ripped abdominals as a result of movements they perform, as opposed to isolated work."
That gymnist doing the handstand has awesome abs. The author in the last pic looks like a bloated muscle pig.lol

[Shepard]

T-Nation swings like any other pendulum in the fitness field. That's as bad as Cosgrove's "Why aerobics make you fat" argument from a couple of years ago. Plenty of people have gotten strong abs from heavy weighted crunches. It's just not cool right now.

[frederickson]

best ab exercises:

- overhead squats
- front/back squats
- deadlifts
- pull-ups (with strict form)
- plank
- v-ups
- bicycle crunches

worst ab exercises:

- anything else

[edward]

I have always been amused at long ab workouts as the abdominals are just like any other muscle group (yeah we have different ratios of fast and slow twitch but the same is true of calves or various back muscles), thus they shouldn't be worked out any more or too differently than any other muscle group. I really find it funny when women I know say they need to do more crunches, have gotten some gimmicky ab machine etc. and they think that such efforts will remove the fat that hides their abs.

I personally work abs once a week just like any other muscle group a few sets and thats it and I have ripped abs not because of this but because of my diet and over all exercise level.

Its not the ab exercise that makes your abs ripped its removing the fat that covers them. You don't need much to get a little bit of mass to make them defined.

[frederickson]

I have always been amused at long ab workouts as the abdominals are just like any other muscle group (yeah we have different ratios of fast and slow twitch but the same is true of calves or various back muscles), thus they shouldn't be worked out any more or too differently than any other muscle group. I really find it funny when women I know say they need to do more crunches, have gotten some gimmicky ab machine etc. and they think that such efforts will remove the fat that hides their abs.

I personally work abs once a week just like any other muscle group a few sets and thats it and I have ripped abs not because of this but because of my diet and over all exercise level.

Its not the ab exercise that makes your abs ripped its removing the fat that covers them. You don't need much to get a little bit of mass to make them defined.

perfectly stated. as the old saying goes... "abs are made in the kitchen, not at the gym."

although i will add, if it is strength or performance one is after, than a strong core is key... which can be achieved by the exercises i posted above.