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3rd Lawsuit Challenges Obama's Citizenship


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#1 luv2increase

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 09:31 PM


There are now a total of 3 lawsuits, 1 in each of three different states (Hawaii, Washington, & Pennsylvania), challenging Obama's citizenship. Why doesn't Obama just put this so-called nonsense to rest by simply turning in his birth certificate? It doesn't make the slightest of sense at all... I have the accounts from all three lawsuits below starting with the most recent. One might also ask themselves that if Obama is deceiving about telling the truth on where he was actually born, what other lies has he told? How can we trust him with our highest office of government? Enjoy.


http://www.pr-inside...a-s-r868066.htm

World News
Barack Obama steadfastly refuses to allow access to official sources
Honolulu lawsuit filed to open Obama's secret birth records

2008-10-18 05:45:24 - Andy Martin in Hawaii takes legal action to seek the truth and ferret out the facts about Barack Obama's family history

Honolulu lawsuit filed to open Obama's secret birth records
Obama steadfastly refuses to allow access to official sources
Andy Martin in Hawaii takes legal action to seek the truth and ferret out the facts about Barack Obama's family history
ANDY MARTIN
Executive Editor
ContrarianCommentary.com

'Factually Correct, Not
Politically Correct'

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

OBAMA NEMESIS ANDY MARTIN SUES IN HAWAII STATE COURTS TO OPEN BARACK OBAMA'S SECRET
BIRTH RECORDS

'WHY IS BARACK OBAMA OBSTRUCTING ACCESS TO HIS BIRTH RECORDS,' ANDY MARTIN ASKS, 'ALONG WITH OBSTRUCTING ACCESS TO COLLEGE RECORDS AND OTHER ESSENTIAL INFORMATION ABOUT HIS PAST? IS THIS THE KIND OF PRESIDENT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WANT? SOMEONE AFRAID TO TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT HIMSELF? HE'S SCARY.'

(HONOLULU, HI)(October 17, 2008) Obama nemesis and author Andy Martin filed suit in the First Circuit Court in Honolulu today seeking a court order to open Barack Obama's secret birth records.

'One of Obama's most controversial and contentious issues that he has allowed to fester for years is the question of his birth certificate,' says Martin. "Obama has posted at least two versions, maybe more, of a 'certificate' on the Internet.

'I want to see a certified copy issued by the State of Hawaii, not one issued by the State of Obama. Why Obama won't allow direct access to his birth records is beyond me. But the closer we get to discovering the truth about Obama the more we understand why he is terrified of that truth.

'What is Obama hiding? Frankly, after being in Hawaii and conducting our first round of interviews, we think we have a clearer picture of what Obama is concealing, and why. We have more research and interviews to conduct before we can announce our opinions.

'In the meantime, I filed a lawsuit against the State of Hawaii to require the state to open Obama's birth records. The Governor and Director of the Department of Health are named as defendants.

'The case has been docketed as number 08-1-2147-10 and assigned to Circuit Judge Bert Ayabe.

'We will distribute copies of the lawsuit at a Saturday morning news conference, as well as making them available on a limited basis Friday evening upon written request. We will hold the Saturday morning news conference in front of the courthouse to provide additional information.

'Friday evening I will be available by cell phone from Ala Moana Beach Park.

'We will issue a news release later Friday with details of Saturday's news conference.

'The basic question remains: why is Obama trying to hide his life from birth to adulthood from the American people? Interestingly, we think we also know now why he has virtually imprisoned his white grandmother and refuses to allow her to appear in public. Who is the man behind Obama's mask? I think my book ‘Obama: The Man Behind The Mask' is aptly titled.

'Next week, we believe we will be in a position to remove Obama's mask and confront him with the truth about who he is and what he is.

'One TV news network has already tentatively scheduled a conference in New York on our return.'






http://www.worldnetd...mp;pageId=78111


By Chelsea Schilling
© 2008 WorldNetDaily

In a second lawsuit challenging Barack Obama's "natural born" citizenship, a Washington resident is demanding officials review original or certified birth documents for the Democratic Party presidential candidate.

Steven Marquis of Fall City, Wash., filed suit Oct. 9 in Washington State Superior Court, calling for Secretary of State Sam Reed to determine whether Obama is a citizen before Election Day. Marquis released a statement saying the state has the authority to "prevent the wholesale disenfranchisement of voters" who might have otherwise had the opportunity to choose a qualified candidate should records show Obama is not a natural-born U.S. citizen.

"At this point, Mr. Obama has not allowed independent or official access to his birth records nor supporting hospital records," Marquis wrote. "The Hawaii Health Department has violated Federal law by ignoring formal Freedom of Information requests for the same."

Marquis referenced prominent Pennsylvania Democrat and attorney Philip J. Berg's lawsuit in U.S. District Court against Sen. Barack Obama and the Democratic National Committee for proof of Obama's American citizenship.

"Mr. Obama failed to respond to the District Court's
request to produce or allow access to the official documents (should they exist) and instead filed a motion to dismiss arguing the Plaintiff had no 'standing' or right to know," he said. "This non-response as of 9/24/2008 in Federal court casts doubt on the veracity of the electoral system and is the principal reason for this lawsuit."


Marquis said his late entry of the lawsuit is due to Obama's "delay and subsequent non response to reasonable request for valid certificates."

He indicated that his requests for certification of the birth documents were rejected by Washington's Office of the Secretary of State. Marquis requested an injunction to force the office to confirm Obama's U.S. citizenship or remove his name from Washington ballots. He said the agency is "specifically charged with certifying and guaranteeing the veracity of official documents and overseeing the elections to wit the people's confidence in the fundamental aspect of democracy is maintained."

However, Marquis continued, "To date, in this regard, Secretary of State Sam Reed has not carried out that fundamental duty."






http://citizenwells....omplaint-filed/

Obama citizenship, Federal Court challenging Barack Obama’s qualifications to be President, US District Court, Eastern District of PA , PHILIP J. BERG, Complaint filed
August 21, 2008 · 26 Comments

We were given a heads up earlier that a complaint was being filed in US District Court, Eastern District of PA. The complaint is a follows: ”for an emergency temporary restraining order prohibiting Obama from running for president, and enjoining the DNC from nominating Obama as the Democratic presidential candidate.”

The Texas Darlin blog has an update:

“This is the information I have received as of 5:28 PM EST:

Papers have been filed, not yet scanned into the Pacer system.

The complaint is asking for declaratory (asking the court to declare Obama is not a US citizen, a “natural born” citizen and not eligible under the qualifications of the US Constitution to run for Office of President).

Also asking for injunctive relief and an emergency TRO. Further asking for EXPEDITED Discovery.

We are asking that Obama provide a “ceritified copy” of the oath he took to regain his citizenship.
We are asking for court orders, ordering the state department, HI department of records and other governmental agencies to turn over any and everything on Obama, all certified.

Plaintiff: PHILIP J. BERG”

To read more and keep up to date on this development visit:

http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/



#2 Iam Empathy

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 10:44 PM

Why doesn't McCain turn over his health records?

Oh yeah, that's right. Because he knows he's on the verge of death.

Edited by Iam Empathy, 20 October 2008 - 10:45 PM.


#3 luv2increase

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 02:48 AM

Why doesn't McCain turn over his health records?

Oh yeah, that's right. Because he knows he's on the verge of death.




Obama hasn't released his health records. Double standard?

All Obama has is 1 letter from 1 doctor saying he is healthy.

On the other hand, McCain has released his records. Hmmm...



Also, Iam Empathy, I would sincerely appreciate it if you would stay on topic. Your post had absolutely nothing to do with Obama's citizenship. I am doing my part is being a proper contributor to this forum, and I would appreciate if you would do the same at least in my threads.

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#4 niner

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 04:56 AM

Why doesn't Obama just put this so-called nonsense to rest by simply turning in his birth certificate?

Maybe he doesn't want to encourage the next wacky lawsuit. It might ask him to "prove" that he's not a Muslim. Maybe he wants the right wing to burn resources on this pursuit. Maybe he just isn't taking the charges seriously at all. Maybe he's playing it the way Karl Rove would play it; instead of showing them the birth certificate, he's letting them get everyone worked up about it. When it finally gets into the public consciousness, then he whips out the birth certificate, and everyone can see that the Right wing is just nuts. I mean, think about it: If he really wasn't a citizen, do you think he's dumb enough to think he could get away with running for President? And Winning?

#5 luv2increase

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 03:53 PM

Think about it. News is news. This is the biggest news of the election. The birth certificates put on the internet have been determined to be frauds by many experts. Why are the media keeping away from this. It is huge. If it were McCain or Palin, it would be on the news every day, and there would probably be riots from Obama supporters demanding answers.



Election 2008 Item

Finally! It’s Berg vs Obama In Federal Court!
by Jack L. Key (10/10/08)

It seems obvious now that the so-called “Obama birth certificate” that was posted on the infamous “Fight the Smears.com” website of the Barack Obama Presidential Campaign was/is a fraud. Several published examinations of the document against a bona fide Certificate of Birth from Hawaii have been released that clearly show it is not a true or certified copy. The latest (stonewall) response from Obama’s Campaign maintains the document is real. The Annenberg “fact-check” document used later as “proof” also provided false data.(1)

It is also obvious that Obama and his supporters won’t –or can’t—respond to repeated requests by myself and other writers and online media outlets for clarification and/or the release of certified original (vault) birth documentation of candidate Obama’s United States citizenship. Now questions again arise as to his dual citizenship or citizenship of Indonesia and Kenya and that he is an illegal alien!

I have asked both the Federal Election Commission and Senator Lamar Alexander for clarification and specific information. I’m waiting on a reply from either or both. Now Philip Berg, a Democrat and Hillary Clinton supporter, has filed a lawsuit in the District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania located in Philadelphia, Pa. See http://www.americasright.com for all the details and latest filings and motions, RE: Berg vs Obama and the DNC. The suit asks basically what I’ve referred to above in its discovery requests and was initially filed several weeks ago in September.

The Berg suit is well prepared and may have merit. The question outstanding is of course, that federal trial Judge Surrick will decide if the suit has “standing” to proceed or will be thrown out for lack of it.

Is this failure to respond to civil inquiries a posturing for a political ploy of some kind by Obama? Why else would a US Senator and candidate for President balk at the requests of those citizens he hopes to represent as commander in chief or to a lawsuit seeking civil discovery of his citizenship and qualifications for President of the United States?

He should be embarrassed by the entire matter and wish to clear it up at once. The debate has raged on for months now. It is time to put the matter to rest.

Are we as a nation so stupid not to recognize a political scam when we see one? Can you imagine the Congressional and public media frenzy in New York and Washington D.C. if it was Senator McCain or Gov. Sarah Palin who would not produce proof positive of his/her citizenship?


The Marines would have been called out already for mob control.

United States Senators MUST also be US citizens. Surely there are credentials on file at the US Department of Justice for ALL United States serving Senators as well as at the FEC? Why has not the FBI or the Congress responded to these individual written requests and charges for weeks going on months?

They are appearing also in the foreign press now. Has the Senate Majority Leader lost his hearing, sight and ability to read? Why is Howard Dean so quiet? Has Katie Couric and Charlie Gibson left the country?

Where is Republican candidate Senator John McCain? Is the RNC brain dead?

I have personally requested a response directly from Senator Obama’s campaign, but have had no answer over several months. I have also asked several online news sites to request answers. I’ve also contacted additional US Senators for information and a Congressional Inquiry if necessary to Sen. Diane Feinstein’s credentialing subcommittee.

I’m waiting for that response as well for over 5 months. Perhaps we will have some sort of response and clarification from Sen. Obama himself or his campaign before November?

This is a very serious matter and one that is important to every American and our political process and democratic government. It will not go away until a satisfactory and truthful answer is received! How can a presidential campaign or election be held until there are absolute, qualified and documented candidates?

AMERICANS DERSERVE AND DEMAND AN ANSWER! But they’ll play hell getting one from Obama or anyone of his crowd or the Democrat hooligans in Congress!


Jack L. Key
http://authorsden.com/jackkey/


http://newsbyus.com/...hp/article/1753

#6 david ellis

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 04:11 PM

This reminds me of all the funky stuff people were saying about Clinton, including Whitewater, drugs, and unexplained deaths. Absolutely nothing to hang your hat on, just extrapolations from a few facts Why do you lend credence to voices speaking from shadows?

This also reminds me of all the debunked rumors that republicans send one another in an endless chain of emails. They know it is false, because the emails stink like lies always do. Like vicious old women with nothing better to do, they gossip. And enjoy the titillating opportunity to think ill of another. The opportunity to smear. All done without shame.

#7 luv2increase

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 05:32 PM

This reminds me of all the funky stuff people were saying about Clinton, including Whitewater, drugs, and unexplained deaths. Absolutely nothing to hang your hat on, just extrapolations from a few facts Why do you lend credence to voices speaking from shadows?

This also reminds me of all the debunked rumors that republicans send one another in an endless chain of emails. They know it is false, because the emails stink like lies always do. Like vicious old women with nothing better to do, they gossip. And enjoy the titillating opportunity to think ill of another. The opportunity to smear. All done without shame.




david, I think you are gravely missing the point. The Constitution of our great nation states that in order to be President, one must be a natural born citizen. That is something to "hang your hat on" because Obama has failed to turn in his birth certificate to the Federal Elections Committee which is required of all Presidents.

Obama and his lawyers are actually fighting against turning in his birth certificate. What is the reasoning behind this? There is no smear or shame about it. Obama is the one not abiding by the rules, plain and simple. He has it well within his power to just turn in a birth certificate.

david, I don't think that you read on of the posts in this thread. I think you just posted solely from the title of the thread.


I don't understand why you posted what you did. Obama is the one who is in the wrong here. I know that I, an American citizen, want a President that is eligible having met the criteria set by our forefathers. Are you saying that you wouldn't care that Obama is not a natural born citizen? Are you saying, "who cares what the Constitution says"?

One might also ask themselves this; what job applicant to any company has the right to change the company policy hiring criteria and to lie on his application?

#8 david ellis

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 11:14 PM

david, I think you are gravely missing the point. The Constitution of our great nation states that in order to be President, one must be a natural born citizen. That is something to "hang your hat on" because Obama has failed to turn in his birth certificate to the Federal Elections Committee which is required of all Presidents.

Obama and his lawyers are actually fighting against turning in his birth certificate. What is the reasoning behind this? There is no smear or shame about it. Obama is the one not abiding by the rules, plain and simple. He has it well within his power to just turn in a birth certificate.

david, I don't think that you read on of the posts in this thread. I think you just posted solely from the title of the thread.


luv2increase I read your post. I didn't believe a word of it. I remember the same kind of crap tossed at Clinton. Why should I think this is real this time? You folks have absolutely no credibility. You are trying to cover 8 years of failure with the thin rags of gossipy smears.

Admit it, right wing ideology is totally debunked. Failure everywhere. Foreign policy-Korea after eight years is exactly where Clinton left it. 9/11- Aug CIA briefing - Osama Bin Laden determined to attack with airplanes. The warning fell on deaf ears, right wing darling ears. Katrina, and for the coup de grace, total financial freeze-up.

Aren't you ashamed of what you are doing? So little facts, so much smear!

Edited by david ellis, 21 October 2008 - 11:39 PM.


#9 luv2increase

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 11:40 PM

Aren't you ashamed of what you are doing? So little facts, so much smear!



The facts are thus:

1. Obama has failed to yet turn in his birth certificate, as is required, to the Federal Elections Committee

2. Some of Obama's family members say he they seen his birth in Kenya

3. Obama's sister stated Obama was born at a different hospital in Honolulu than the one Obama stated he was born at.

4. Many experts has proven the birth certificates posted on line are not only different from each other (different sites has different versions), but that each and every one of them are frauds.

5. Obama and his attorneys are fighting against having to turn in his birth certificate for some reason. I mean seriously, what is the big deal with something so trivial as that?

6. If Obama is lying about where he was born, what else may he be lying about.



Now, can you dispute any of those that I have listed above? In other words, can you prove them wrong with a source of actual proof. Anything less would be irrelevant.

#10 RighteousReason

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 01:26 AM

As Neal Boortz said, do we really need to waste time on such an asanine topic when there are so much more important topics we can slam Obama on?

#11 eternaltraveler

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 01:43 AM

umm, I don't even know if I could produce a copy of my own birth certificate. It doesn't matter if he was born in kenya, only that he was a natural born US citizen. He could have been born on the moon. His mom was a US citizen.

Edited by elrond, 22 October 2008 - 01:51 AM.


#12 david ellis

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 03:54 AM

In other words, can you prove them wrong with a source of actual proof. Anything less would be irrelevant.



The biggest reason why I am not interested in your facts, luv2increase, is you guys have cried wolf so many times, that I seriously doubt that you have the truth. It doesn't seem to be a good use of my time. Right wing spin happens too much. A lot of folks were fooled into thinking liberals were stupid and conservatives were smart. Thank heavens most of them are ignoring the spin and are going to vote for liberals. You can't fool all the people all of the time. Probably the best thing to do is ignore the squeaking coming from the right.

This forum only has one rule - no more name calling. Or formally, ad hominem attacks. That is not enough rules for a fair debate. So why should I spend time analyzing stuff that you found on some crackpot website?

Also, why should I fact check you, luv2increase, I have fact checked claims on this forum, proving them false possibly, but my posts were never taken seriously and analyzed. A lot of noise and thunder, very little thinking, why waste energy on fact checking? You haven't shown me the courtesy of checking my facts. So I am not very sympathetic when you want me to spend time looking at yours.

Elrond thinks the issue of Obama's citizenship is simple. For me it has all the tell tale marks of a Swift Boating exercise, where up will be proven down.

#13 Iam Empathy

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 07:22 AM

McCain / Palin = Yes We Can (Lie)

http://www.factcheck..._disclosed.html

Posted Image

June 16, 2008
Q:

Has Obama's birth certificate been disclosed?
Is Barack Obama a "natural-born citizen"? It is hard to believe he could get this far in the electoral process and not have a sufficient answer to this question, I admit, but has his birth certificate been disclosed?


A:

Yes. His campaign made a copy public after speculation by conservative bloggers that he might not be a "natural-born citizen."
We asked for and received a copy from the Obama campaign. It is too large to display full size on this page, but you may click on this link to see a copy of the document just as we received it.

It indicates Obama was born at 7:24 p.m. Aug. 4, 1961, in Honolulu. That should be no surprise, as it merely documents what Obama and his biographers have always said. But the document should put to rest groundless speculation raised on some conservative Web sites that Obama might not have been born in the U.S. and therefore might not qualify under the Constitution as a "natural-born citizen" to be president.

The speculation was not based on any evidence. Bloggers raised questions based on the absence of evidence, specifically the lack of a publicly available copy of a birth certificate and the supposed "secrecy" surrounding it. For example, the conservative World Net Daily posted a June 10 article with the headline, "Is Obama's candidacy constitutional?; Secrecy over birth certificate, demand for 'natural-born' citizenship cited." Soon after, some of our readers began asking us the same thing.

The "secrecy" ended when Tommy Vietor at the Obama campaign sent a message to us and other reporters saying, "I know there have been some rumors spreading about Obama's citizenship, so I wanted to make sure you all had a copy of his birth certificate." A digital image was attached.

Hawaii state law forbids the release of birth or marriage certificates to anyone but the persons named in the documents or their immediate relatives. This copy carries a date stamp of "Jun 6 - 2007" (which has bled through from the reverse side), and is, therefore, probably a copy obtained by Obama himself at that time.

Incidentally, John McCain has been the subject of similar speculation based on the fact that he was born in the Panama Canal Zone. But as we explained in an earlier Ask FactCheck, he's also a U.S. citizen under laws going back to 1790, even though he wasn't born in the country.

Edited by Iam Empathy, 22 October 2008 - 07:25 AM.


#14 luv2increase

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 03:54 PM

Didn't you already see empathy that these online birth certificates are frauds? Why can they post it online so millions of people can see, yet they can't simply hand-in a certified copy to the federal courts and/or federal elections committee?

Also, I hate to break it to you elrond, but his mother didn't meet the guidelines stated in the Constitution. Also, Obama changed his citizenship to Indonesian and never reapplied for US citizenship. Indonesia didn't offer "dual-citizenship" at the time Obama changed his citizenship. Therefore, he would have had to reapply, yet he never did.

Either way everyone, if Obama was born in Hawaii or born in Kenya like his family states, he is not a natural born citizen. There are three court cases right now for Obama to produce his birth certificate. The first guy to file is a devout Democrat so it isn't right-wing rhetoric as one guy suggested here.



Inconsistencies undermine FactCheck report on Obama "birth certificate"
By Reuven Koret August 24, 2008


The Annenberg Political Factcheck website has published photographs and an analysis of what it says is the "original birth certificate" of Barack Hussein Obama II. While the physical document depicted in the photos resemble the document image previously scanned and published by the Daily Kos website and Obama's own "Fight the Smears" site in June, FactCheck's case for authenticity and its claims to objectivity are undermined by a litany of process flaws, conflicts of interest and factual inconsistencies that raise doubts about its motives and methods of those of the Obama campaign.

The Factcheck.org report, titled "Born in the USA," accompanied by an image of the Bruce Springsteen album cover, starts:

In June, the Obama campaign released a digitally scanned image of his birth certificate to quell speculative charges that he might not be a natural-born citizen. But the image prompted more blog-based skepticism about the document's authenticity. And recently, author Jerome Corsi, whose book attacks Obama, said in a TV interview that the birth certificate the campaign has is "fake."

We beg to differ. FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.




FactCheck claims that its staffers have "seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate" begs the question and obscures the truth. In fact, the article later goes on to make clear that this is in fact not "the original birth certificate" but "a 'certification of birth,' also known as a short-form birth certificate. The long form is drawn up by the hospital and includes additional information such as birth weight and parents' hometowns."

"The Hawaii Department of Health's birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department. We tried to ask the Hawaii DOH why they only offer the short form, among other questions, but they have not given a response."

This would seem to suggest that Factcheck went through the process of requesting the birth certificate (after all, why else reproduce and link the request form?), but no -- it turns out that they had a special invitation to visit the birth certificate at its residence, as if they were visiting some long lost relatives or a reclusive celebrity:[/b]

"Recently FactCheck representatives got a chance to spend some time with the birth certificate, and we can attest to the fact that it is real and three-dimensional and resides at the Obama headquarters in Chicago."

For an organization that claims to be fastidious with the facts, the sentence is vague and overly cute. Who made the invitation to "spend some time with the certificate"? How exactly did it happen that they "got a chance"? Did FactCheck approach the Obama Campaign or did the Obama Campaign approach FactCheck? And what are the forensic analysis credentials of the FactCheck staff that allows them to conclude definitively that the birth certificate is real and original?

And when is "recently"? The controversy over the birth certificate has been raging for ten weeks. Was it coincidental that it would emerge right after Obama returned from his "vacation" in Hawaii? The claim of "recently" is thrown into further doubt by the revelation that embedded date information in the photographs indicates that the photos were taken nearly a half year ago.

Factcheck.org posted 9 photographs of what it claimed were different aspects of Obama's "Certificate of Live Birth", all in less than optimal and idiosyncratic lighting conditions. All of them were taken over a less than seven minute period on March 12, 2008 from 10:40:18 to 10:47:02 at night.

No wonder FactCheck sufficed left it a vague "spend some time" when the duration of the entire photography session took 6 minutes and 44 seconds. Talk about: "Wham, bam, thank you, Obama!" Does that sound like a serious and thorough examination to

FactCheck will need to explain these hard chronological facts, which can be verified from the published photos by anyone with an EXIF reading tool, publically available on the net and as part of graphics software.

If the embedded graphical information is correct, it means that FactCheck is lying about doing the photo session "recently" and may be lying about much more, since it would be implausible that "FactCheck" was even checking facts about the birth certificate in March 2008.

Factcheck may try to argue that the photographer "forgot" to set the correct time. But that would further illuminate the shoddy level of professionalism in disregarding the need for exact documentation of the date, a carelessness echoed in the introductory remarks of its article ("recently" is not a fact, especially when it is not clearly associated with the location of the photo shoot ? where the documents "reside" is hardly the same thing). If so, FactCheck would also need to show some other published photos published with the same camera that show an identical offset between the camera's time and the real time.


Exactly for such reasons -- the lack of professionalism, exactitude and transparency concerning the provenance of this paper and the circumstances of the photographic session -- the reasonable demand from the skeptics -- who were initially made suspicious by the fact that the purported certificate image was published first (initially in relatively low resolution and only later in high resolution) in the far-left partisan Daily Kos blog -- has always been that the paper certificate must be subjected to the scrutiny of objective media or document forensics specialists, and mainstream journalists who can ask the hard question not just about this document image or that document image but examine it for themselves and query Obama himself about the many lingering mysteries and evasions in this whole affair.

It is striking, too, that Newsweek reprints the FactCheck report under the organizational byline without the minimal scrutiny that one would expect from a serious news magazine. In effect it is an advertorial serving the interests of the Obama campaign, not an objective piece of journalism. Indeed, at the end there is a credit: "Republished with permission from factcheck.org."

FactCheck itself, as a project primarily funded by the Annenberg Foundation, hardly fits the bill of being a disinterested party, especially given Obama's four year stint as founding chair of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, currently being investigated due to its massive withholding of papers which document the catestrophic failure of the project, including public funds wasted under Obama's leadership, and his relations in that project with former Weather Underground terrorist Bill Ayers.

Most curious, too, is the apparent lack of curiosity of FactCheck in pursuing the original "long-form" birth certificate that was supposedly used as the basis for the short form. After all, Barack Obama refers explicitly to possessing this document in "Dreams from My Father". Since FactCheck apparently has sufficiently close relations with the Obama teams to merit the exclusive privilege of being invited to "spend some time" (or at least 6 minutes and 44 seconds) with the reclusive short-form, one might think that if they were really interested in checking facts or examining original records they would doggedly pursue the paper source document -- the real thing from 47 years ago, not something cleaned and extracted from a database and thus subject to all kinds of potential revision and redaction.


The Ides of March: A link with the pilfering of Passport files at State?

Rather than asking the hard questions of Obama himself, or even the Obama campaign, or even requesting additional documents from the State of Hawaii in the public interest (they said they "tried" to ask about the long form but failed to get an answer), FactCheck falls back on the rather lame claim that the short form has "enough information to be acceptable to the State Department" and goes so far as to include a footnote linking to the State Department's Passport application requirements.

But isn't that bar set a bit too low for the man who wants to be President, especially as you can be a citizen without being "natural born" as article two of the Constitution require, especially when there are multiple reports coming from Kenya -- including several from Obama's own relatives -- that he was actually born in Kenya and came to Hawaii only days after birth, apparently at his mother's insistence that he would be recorded as being born in the USA? Apparently not too low for FactCheck. From their report it would appear that they are not interested or, perhaps more correctly, conflicted in their interests.

But the repeated references to State Department requirements for a passport take on a new significance in the light of the recognition, pointed out by an Israel Insider reader, that this "new" certificate of live birth is recorded as being photographed on March 12, 2008, and a contract employee of an Obama advisor -- allegedly a former CIA agent -- was caught breaking into Obama's passport files on March 14, 2008. Indeed, his passport file was looked at twice before--both times BEFORE this "certification of live birth" (not "certificate of birth," as FactCheck sloppily calls it) was photographed.

Shades of Watergate dirty tricks! Were those passport file break-ins ever investigated or prosecuted? Is it coincidental then that FactCheck inexplicably and repeatedly points out that this certificate of live birth contains all data required by the State Dept. to receive a passport?

The issue has never been whether or not Obama can prove U.S. citizenship well enough to get a passport. He gets around just fine, on one passport or another. The issues are where he was born, whether he is a natural born citizen under the Constitution, whether he ever was a citizen of another country, and, if so, whether he ever renounced that foreign citizenship. So why exactly was someone associated with Obama's campaign looking into his passport files? A suspicious mind might speculate that it was to see whether there was already a certificate of live birth (or a birth certificate) on file in the passport office and/or to see which data it contained and whether ALL data matched up with what was on the photographed certificate and to ensure that all data matched up with what Obama wants us to believe about his birth?

A cynic might speculate -- and it is only speculation, not a fact claim -- that these photos were originally taken to proudly show off how wonderful this document looked, complete with every detail necessary to obtain a U.S. passport -- the generation date, the embossed seal, the signature, the place of birth. And, based the embedded image information (unfortunately, for them, overlooked), it was conveniently photographed late one night in March 2008, before anyone even began to question his birth certificate in the blogosphere. "Recently", as FactCheck claims, being a relative term. Given these circumstances, it is incumbent on FactCheck to provide the exact date, place, and all participants in its photo shoot, and the circumstances by which this visit was arranged.


All of this, of course, would mean that FactCheck is working hand-in-glove with the campaign of that other Annenberg grantee, Barack Hussein Obama II. Either that, or their camera has a defective date function or special time machine capabilities worthy of their subject. In any case, Israel Insider and millions of Americans would really like to hear the clarifications about these discrepancies from the fellows at FactCheck, rather than accuse them of malfeasance.

A Very Short Photo Session: Wham, Bam, Thank You, Obama

The photographs themselves of course superficially resemble what a real short-form certificate should look like, although it is impossible to ascertain from a series of jpg images. Remarkably, for an organization which purports to be dedicated to checking facts, no high resolution of the document's two sides was made so that professionals could compare that scan with the scan previously published in the Daily Kos. The Obama headquarters has no scanner? FactCheck has no scanner? Only a Canon Powershot 570 with an unset date? Or perhaps they were granted a mere six minutes and 44 seconds and had no time for a scan.


Comparing the high resolution Daily Kos scan (as opposed to the scan originally published) with the FactCheck photos, there are obvious and dramatic differences. The scan shows only the thinnest of fold marks at the top and none below, no seal and no signature block. Oddly, only the June 6, 2007 date stamp is visible. Only after extreme manipulations of the Daily Kos image did some graphic specialists managed to squeeze out the blurred and color enhance image of something that just might be a seal or a signature block. But even then, the blurry seal trace did not appear in the correct size or expected location.

Those stark differences clearly validate the skepticism with which the scan was regarded by Israel Insider and others from the start. Why, then, did it take the campaign ten weeks to produce photos that show the missing seal, signature block and deep fold marks, so deep that they degrade some letters and print of the seal? What changed between June 12 and August 21?

Black out: Who forgot about concealing that all-important, or unimportant, file number?

Then there is the issue of the redacted file number which for the last ten plus weeks has been blacked out . Here's the explanation that comes from the Obama campaign, according to FactCheck:

We asked the Obama campaign about the date stamp and the blacked-out certificate number. The certificate is stamped June 2007, because that's when Hawaii officials produced it for the campaign, which requested that document and "all the records we could get our hands on" according to spokesperson Shauna Daly. The campaign didn't release its copy until 2008, after speculation began to appear on the Internet questioning Obama's citizenship. The campaign then rushed to release the document, and the rush is responsible for the blacked-out certificate number. Says Shauna: "[We] couldn't get someone on the phone in Hawaii to tell us whether the number represented some secret information, and we erred on the side of blacking it out. Since then we've found out it's pretty irrelevant for the outside world."


That's odd. What "rush" to release the document? Who exactly was rushing them? The bloggers over at Daily Kos? Why was the Obama campaign in such a "rush" if there was no problem and no real pressure to produce? They couldn't wait another few hours or a day to talk to the Hawaii Health Department before rushing to print at the Daily Kos? And then, after the redacted document was up, they couldn't have replaced it with an unredacted image, just as Kos later replaced, without telling anyone, a medium resolution with a high resolution image? Who told them to do that?

Only last week, the Honolulu Advertiser quoted Janice Okubo, Director of Communications in Hawaii's Department as Health, as saying that with the file number one could hack into the system. "Potentially, if you have that number, you could break into the system." Okubo seems on intent on defending the Obama campaign even if she admits that the image they presented as authentic lacked visible stamps and seals. "They responded and apparently it isn't good enough that he posted his birth certificate," Okubo said. "They say they want it because they claim he is not a citizen of the United States. It's pretty ridiculous."

So which is it? Is the file number irrelevant, as the campaign now claims, or is it a data that could be used to hack into the system, as Hawaii claims. If it is irrelevant, why is Janice Okubo providing excuses for the Obama campaign? If it is dangerous for data security, why is the Obama campaign ignoring that danger? And why does Okubo say it's "ridiculous" to be asking questions about the provenance of a vital record of a presidential candidate when the proffered proof clearly lacked the requisite stamps and signatures. Or did Obama's people and Okubo have a heart to heart between body surfing sessions at Waikiki?

Despite the points scored by the Obama campaign in gaining high level media coverage for a favorable puff piece, the FactCheck photospread -- revealing so much that the scan did not --unwittingly serves to validate the legitimacy of the probing questions and analyses that have been asked over the past two and a half months by Israel Insider and various bloggers, document examiners, and average citizens.

While the quality and consistency of the analyses of these amateur sleuths have been irregular, and have taken wrong turns on several occasions, shouldn't the burden of proof for documenting one's citizenship and producing the original vital records fall on the candidate and the legal authorities empowered for this purpose, not ordinary citizens disturbed by the lack of transparency of a presidential candidate and his arrogant unwillingness to produce documents expected of regular Americans?

The FactCheck report may have Obamatons humming "Born in the USA", but anyone serious about getting to the truth of Obama's constitutional qualifications will be disappointed by their casual and smug report. And they will expect more from a candidate who, like the protagonist in the opening lines of the Springsteen song, seems to "spend half [his] life just covering up."

The evidentiary and analytical shoddiness of the FactCheck report, both in terms of the dubious dating of the photos, the inexactitude in the circumstances of the shoot, apparent inconsistencies between the photos and the scan, and the failure to pursue the more significant, truly original, long form birth certificate, all point to the inadequacy of the proof presented to date to validate Obama's claim to being a "natural born" US citizen.

That question, it now seems, will need to be answered in federal court.


http://web.israelins...itics/13075.htm

#15 luv2increase

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 09:10 PM

ELECTION 2008
DNC steps in to silence lawsuit over Obama birth certificate
Democrat suing his own party says it's 'like they're in cahoots'
Posted: October 04, 2008
12:00 am Eastern

By Drew Zahn
© 2008 WorldNetDaily


Philip J. Berg

The man suing Sen. Barack Obama and the Democratic National Committee for proof of Obama's American citizenship is outraged that his own party – rather than just providing the birth certificate he seeks – would step in to silence him by filing a motion to dismiss his lawsuit.

As WND reported, prominent Pennsylvania Democrat and attorney Philip J. Berg filed suit in U.S. District Court two months ago claiming Obama is not a natural-born U.S. citizen and therefore not eligible to be elected president
. Berg has since challenged Obama publicly that if the candidate will simply produce authorized proof of citizenship, he'll drop the suit.

Berg told WND the longer the DNC tries to ignore his lawsuit or make it go away – instead of just providing the documents – the more convinced he is that his accusations are correct.

Despite assertions by the Washington Post, FactChecker.org and other organizations that Obama has produced a certified Hawaiian birth certificate, Berg told WND he remains "99.99 percent sure" that the certificate is a fake and he wants a court, not a website, to determine its validity.


Earlier last week, lawyers for Obama and the DNC filed a joint motion to dismiss Berg's lawsuit. The fact that the DNC joined in the dismissal request has Berg fuming, believing his party's leaders have ignored his pleas for proof in order to favor their chosen candidate over a rank-and-file constituent.

"I think it's outrageous," Berg said. "The Democratic National Committee should be ensuring the Democratic Party and the public that they have a qualified candidate up there. To file a joint motion is like they're in cahoots.

"Since then, I have asked by way of press release that Howard Dean resign, because (the DNC members) are not fulfilling their duties," Berg said.

"The DNC has a responsibility to all Democrats in this country to make sure that all of their candidates are properly vetted and properly qualified," Berg added. "I think it's really an outrage to the 18-plus million people who voted for Obama and the people who donated more than $425 million to him under false pretenses."


Berg is frustrated, not only with his own party's leadership for allegedly not investigating Obama's background, but also with the major news outlets for failing as well.

"I should also be suing the national media and their disgrace for not properly vetting, inspecting or checking on Barack Obama.

"Look what they're doing to Governor Palin: They're opening up her closet doors, they're going through everything personal, but no one has ever gone after Obama. It doesn't make sense," Berg said.

Obama's website counters Berg's claims with links to articles that affirm the validity of his citizenship and an image of a Hawaiian birth certificate for Barack Hussein Obama, born in Honolulu, Aug. 4, 1961. The webpage is part of the Obama campaign website's "Fight the Smears" section, an effort to prevent reports that Obama claims are false from disseminating as damaging rumors.

Berg acknowledges that as long as his lawsuit remains outstanding, the public will talk, and he told WND he wants Obama to quickly prove him wrong or the court to quickly prove him right.

"I've been on about 50 radio shows around the country," Berg said, "and on every one I've put out a challenge: Barack Obama, if I'm wrong, just come forth with certified copies of these documents and I'll close down the case."

Berg told WND, "I've had 19 million hits on my website. …Those people talk to other people, now we're up to 20, 30, 40 million people who are aware of this controversy, and it's going to drastically affect the entire election."


When asked what he would do if the DNC succeeded in getting his case dismissed, Berg said he would "immediately file an appeal to the Third Circuit Court of Appeals, and if we don't get a fair ruling there, immediately to the U.S. Supreme Court."

"We're dealing with the U.S. Constitution and it must be followed," Berg explained. "I want the Constitution enforced; that's my main reason for doing this.

"The real outrage is that there's nothing in our system that provides that a candidate must provide that his qualifications are true and correct before he or she runs, and that safeguard should be put into our system by law," Berg said.


http://www.worldnetd...m/?pageId=76933

#16 Iam Empathy

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 09:13 PM

They are not "frauds". As you claim. Only a few fringe far right-wing bloggers think it is a fraud.

Here it is independently verified by factcheck.org.

#17 luv2increase

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 09:15 PM

Berg cites inconsistent accounts of Sen. Obama's birth, including reports that he was born at two separate hospitals--Kapiolani Hospital and Queens Hospital--in Honolulu, as well a profound lack of birthing records for Stanley Ann Dunham, though simple "registry of birth" records for Barack Obama are available in a Hawaiian public records office.

Should Sen. Obama truly have been born in Kenya, Berg writes, the laws on the books at the time of his birth hold that U.S. citizenship may only pass to a child born overseas to a U.S. citizen parent and non-citizen parent if the former was at least 19 years of age. Sen. Obama's mother was only 18 at the time. Therefore, because U.S. citizenship could not legally be passed on to him, Obama could not be registered as a "natural born" citizen and would therefore be ineligible to seek the presidency pursuant to Article II, Section 1 of the United States Constitution.

Moreover, even if Sen. Obama could have somehow been deemed "natural born," that citizenship was lost in or around 1967 when he and his mother took up residency in Indonesia, where Stanley Ann Dunham married Lolo Soetoro, an Indonesian citizen. Berg also states that he possesses copies of Sen. Obama's registration to Fransiskus Assisi School In Jakarta, Indonesia which clearly show that he was registered under the name "Barry Soetoro" and his citizenship listed as Indonesian.


http://newsbusters.o...t-against-obama


Game. Set. Match. Barry Soetoro (as he was known in high school in Hawaii) A.K.A. Barack Obama cannot be President of the United States. Be prepared people because there are going to be a lot of excruciatingly angry Soetoro supporters when Obama cannot provide birth certificates when "ordered by courts of law" and then hence cannot be President.


One just can't make stuff up as good as this. :|?

#18 luv2increase

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 09:38 PM

It is final. No more Obama!




Obama & DNC Admit All Allegations of Federal Court Lawsuit - Obama’s “Not” Qualified to be President
Obama Should Immediately Withdraw his Candidacy for President

For Immediate Release: - 10/21/08 - Complete contact details and pdfs of this press release and motions filed by plaintiff Berg today are at the end of this article

(Lafayette Hill, Pennsylvania – 10/21/08) - Philip J. Berg, Esquire, the Attorney who filed suit against Barack H. Obama challenging Senator Obama’s lack of “qualifications” to serve as President of the United States, announced today that Obama and tbe DNC “ADMITTED”, by way of failure to timely respond to Requests for Admissions, all of the numerous specific requests in the Federal lawsuit. Obama is “NOT QUALIFIED” to be President and therefore Obama must immediately withdraw his candidacy for President and the DNC shall substitute a qualified candidate. The case is Berg v. Obama, No. 08-cv-04083.

Berg stated that he filed Requests for Admissions on September 15, 2008 with a response by way of answer or objection had to be served within thirty [30] days. No response to the Requests for Admissions was served by way of response or objection. Thus, all of the Admissions directed to Obama and the DNC are deemed “ADMITTED.” Therefore, Obama must immediately withdraw his candidacy for President.

OBAMA - Admitted:

1. I was born in Kenya.

2. I am a Kenya “natural born” citizen.
3. My foreign birth was registered in the State of Hawaii.

4. My father, Barrack Hussein Obama, Sr. admitted Paternity of me.
5. My mother gave birth to me in Mombosa, Kenya.

6. My mother’s maiden name is Stanley Ann Dunham a/k/a Ann Dunham.
7. The COLB [Certification of Live Birth] posted on the website “Fightthesmears.com” is a forgery.

8. I was adopted by a Foreign Citizen.
9. I was adopted by Lolo Soetoro, M.A. a citizen of Indonesia.

10. I was not born in Hawaii.
11. I was not born at the Queens Medical Center in Hawaii.

12. I was not born at Kapi’olani Medical Center for Women and Children in Hawaii.
13. I was not born in a Hospital in Hawaii.

14. I am a citizen of Indonesia.
15. I never took the “Oath of Allegiance” to regain my U.S. Citizenship status.

16. I am not a “natural born” United States citizen.
17. My date of birth is August 4, 1961.

18. I traveled to Pakistan in 1981 with my Pakistan friends.
19. In 1981, I went to Indonesia on my way to Pakistan.

20. Pakistan was a no travel zone in 1981 for American Citizens.
21. In 1981, Pakistan was not allowing American Citizens to enter their country.

22. I traveled on my Indonesian Passport to Pakistan.
23. I renewed my Indonesian Passport on my way to Pakistan.

24. My senior campaign staff is aware I am not a “natural born” United States Citizen.
25. I am proud of my Kenya Heritage.

26. My relatives have requested changes to the portion of my birth certificate that identifies my first name.
27. My relatives have requested changes to the portion of my birth certificate that identifies my last name.

28. My relatives have requested changes to the portion of my birth certificate that identifies my place of birth.
29. I requested changes to the portion of my birth certificate that identifies my first name.

30. I requested changes to the portion of my birth certificate that identifies my last name.
31. I requested changes to the portion of my birth certificate that identifies my place of birth.

32. The document identified as my Indonesian School record from Fransiskus Assisi School in Jakarta, Indonesia is genuine.
33. I went to a Judge in Hawaii to have my name changed.

34. I went to a Senator and/or Congressman or other public official in Hawaii to have my name changed.
35. I had a passport issued to me from the Government of Indonesia.

36. The United States Constitution does not allow for a Person to hold the office of President of the United States unless that person is a “natural born” United States citizen.
37. I am ineligible pursuant to the United States Constitution to serve as President and/or Vice President of the United States.

38. I never renounced my citizenship as it relates to my citizenship to the country of Indonesia.
39. I never renounced my citizenship as it relates to my citizenship to the country of Kenya.

40. I am an Attorney who specializes in Constitutional Law.
41. Kenya was a part of the British Colonies at the time of my birth.

42. Kenya did not become its own Republic until 1963.
43. I am not a “Naturalized” United States Citizen.

44. I obtained $200 Million dollars in campaign funds by fraudulent means.
45. I cannot produce a “vault” (original) long version of a birth certificate showing my birth in Hawaii.

46. My “vault” (original) long version birth certificate shows my birth in Kenya.
47. The only times I was to a Hospital in Hawaii was for check-ups or medical treatments for illnesses.

48. Queens Medical Center in Honolulu, Hawaii does not have any record of my mother, Stanley Ann Dunham (Obama) giving birth to me.
49. Kapi’olani Medical Center for Women and Children in Honolulu, Hawaii does not have any record of my mother, Stanley Ann Dunham (Obama) giving birth to me.

50. I was born in the Coast Province Hospital in Mombasa, Kenya.
51. I represented on my State Bar application in Illinois that I never used any other name other than Barack Hussein Obama.

52. I went by the name Barry Soetoro in Indonesia.
53. My Indonesian school records are under the name of Barry Soetoro.

54. I took an Oath to uphold the United States Constitution when admitted to the State Bar of Illinois to practice Law.
55. I took an Oath to uphold the United States Constitution when I was Sworn into my United States Senate Office.

56. I hold dual citizenship with at least one other Country besides the United States of America.

DNC - Admitted:

1. The DNC nominated Barrack Hussein Obama as the Democratic Nominee for President.

2. The DNC has not vetted Barrack Hussein Obama.
3. The DNC did not have a background check performed on Barrack Hussein Obama.

4.The DNC did not verify Barrack Hussein Obama’s eligibility to serve as President of the United States.
5. The DNC admits Barrack Hussein Obama was born in Kenya.

6. The DNC admits Barrack Hussein Obama is not a “natural born” United States citizen.
7. The DNC admits Barrack Hussein Obama was not born in Hawaii.

8.The DNC admits they have not inquired into Barrack Hussein Obama’s citizenship status.
9. The DNC admits they have a duty to properly vette the Democratic Nominee for President.

10.The DNC admits Lolo Soetoro, M.A., an Indonesian citizen adopted Barrack Hussein Obama.
11. The DNC admits the Credentials Committee has been aware of this lawsuit since August 22, 2008 as the lawsuit was faxed to our Washington D.C. Office on August 22, 2008.

12. The DNC admits their Credentials Committee failed to verify and/or inquire into the credentials of Barack Hussein Obama to serve as the President of the United States.
13. The DNC admits their Credential Committee’s Report failed to address the issues of Barack Hussein Obama’s ineligibility to serve as President of the United States.

14.The DNC admits Howard Dean, Chair Person has and had knowledge Barack Hussein Obama was born in Kenya and ineligible to serve as the President of the United States.
15. The DNC admits Plaintiff and all Democratic citizens of the United States have been personally injured as a result of not having a qualified Democratic Presidential Nominee to cast their votes upon.

16. The DNC admits Plaintiff and all citizens of the United States have a Constitutional Right to vote for the President of the United States and to have two (2) qualified candidates of which to choose from.
17. The DNC admits Plaintiff and all citizens of the United States have a Constitutional right to have a properly vetted Democratic Presidential Nominee of which to cast their vote.

18. The DNC admits an FBI background check is not performed on the Presidential or Vice Presidential Candidates.
19. The DNC admits the United States Constitution does not allow for a Person to hold the office of President of the United States unless that person is a “natural born” United States citizen.

20. The DNC admits they collected donations on behalf of Barack Hussein Obama for his Presidential campaign.
21. The DNC admits Plaintiff and Democratic citizens donated money based on false representations that Barack Hussein Obama was qualified to serve as the President of the United States.

22. The DNC admits if Barack Hussein Obama is elected as President and allowed to serve as President of the United States in violation of our Constitution, it will create a Constitutional crisis.
23. The DNC admits Barack Hussein Obama took an Oath to uphold the United States Constitution.

24. The DNC admits allowing a person who is not a “natural born” citizen to serve as President of the United States violates Plaintiff’s rights to due process of law in violation of the United States Constitution.
25. The DNC admits allowing a person who is not a “natural born” citizen to serve as President of the United States violates Plaintiff’s rights to Equal Protection of the laws in violation of the United States Constitution.

26. The DNC admits the function of the DNC is to secure a Democratic Presidential Candidate who will protect Democratic citizen’s interests, fight for their equal opportunities and fight for justice for all Americans.
27. The DNC admits the Democratic National Committee has been promoting Barack Hussein Obama’s Presidential election knowing he was ineligible to serve as President of the United States.

Our website obamacrimes.com now has 50.7 + million hits. We are urging all to spread the word of our website – and forward to your local newspapers, radio and TV stations. Berg again stressed his position regarding the urgency of this case as, “we” the people, are heading to a “Constitutional Crisis” if this case is not resolved forthwith.


http://www.obamacrimes.com/



So now what is going to happen. The US has never been in a predicament such as this before.

#19 RunterBeaker

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 10:08 PM

You know what ,who cares which piece of land Obama was birthed on. Does it really matter?

#20 luv2increase

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 10:25 PM

You know what ,who cares which piece of land Obama was birthed on. Does it really matter?




Are you an American?


It matters because Obama can't be President of the United States of American if he is not a natural-born citizen, and that is that. There are no if, ands, or buts unless the Constitution would have been changed to say otherwise since, but it hasn't.

#21 david ellis

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Posted 23 October 2008 - 10:22 PM

Are you an American?


It matters because Obama can't be President of the United States of American if he is not a natural-born citizen, and that is that. There are no if, ands, or buts unless the Constitution would have been changed to say otherwise since, but it hasn't.


All conspiracy theories are convoluted with many twists and turns. All necessary to hide the lies. Can you boil it down to 25 words or less. Maybe then it will sound like the truth.l

#22 RighteousReason

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Posted 24 October 2008 - 03:46 AM

As Neal Boortz said, do we really need to waste time on such an asanine topic when there are so much more important topics we can slam Obama on?

I am actually softening my view on this topic. After hearing Michael Savage address this I'm thinking this might become something of an issue.

#23 david ellis

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Posted 24 October 2008 - 03:40 PM

Are you an American?


It matters because Obama can't be President of the United States of American if he is not a natural-born citizen, and that is that. There are no if, ands, or buts unless the Constitution would have been changed to say otherwise since, but it hasn't.


All conspiracy theories are convoluted with many twists and turns. All necessary to hide the lies. Can you boil it down to 25 words or less. Maybe then it will sound like the truth.l


Luv2Increase I need to see this complicated issue boiled down to 25 words or less. Can you do it? A summary is badly needed after the pages of data you lifted off strange web sites.

#24 luv2increase

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Posted 24 October 2008 - 06:23 PM

Sure David.


Obama was born in Kenya, therefore he is not a natural-born citizen, and hence can't be President of the United States.

#25 suspire

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Posted 24 October 2008 - 09:15 PM

Are you an American?


It matters because Obama can't be President of the United States of American if he is not a natural-born citizen, and that is that. There are no if, ands, or buts unless the Constitution would have been changed to say otherwise since, but it hasn't.


All conspiracy theories are convoluted with many twists and turns. All necessary to hide the lies. Can you boil it down to 25 words or less. Maybe then it will sound like the truth.l


Luv2Increase I need to see this complicated issue boiled down to 25 words or less. Can you do it? A summary is badly needed after the pages of data you lifted off strange web sites.



I'll sum it up for you, David: Three crazies have filed cases against Obama, claiming he is not a U.S. citizen. This has been widely debunked by various sources and the Federal Election Commission has filed to dismiss the case. None of the mainstream media outlets are carrying the story, not even conservative bastions like Fox News, the Weekly Standard or the National Review, nor has Palin (not exactly unknown for repeating lies) or McCain brought it up, nor are any of the mainstream legal authorities investigating the situation, because it has been proven false (you'd think a Bush controlled Justice Department would be all over it if there was a shred of evidence to it). It has been relegated to the dark corners of the Internet...and apparently our forums, unfortunately. Even fringe groups like World Net Daily and the like felt there was no substance to the issue from the start (except in last couple of days, when they've started to "discuss" it again), though recently folks like Limbaugh and Savage had made noises about the "possibility" of it having some truth, not because they actually believe it, but because the rumor is powerful--ie, when a woman accuses a man of rape (or in the GOP's case, a white woman accuses a black man of theft and assault in the name of Obama), it doesn't matter if the claim is proven to be false, the power of the lie still sticks with people and the doubt continues to cloud their mind long after the issue has been debunked. That Savage, Limbaugh, WND, etc are starting to make sounds about the issue now is just a sign of the sheer desperation of the GOP faithful; they see the writing on the wall and they'll try almost anything. Of course, they won't over-extend themselves and say it is true, but they'll continue to circulate the rumor as "something to be discussed" ala Swift Boat so that it continues to enter the consciousness of the electorate. Thankfully it has gotten zero traction, except for those who follow the radical version of the GOP talking points at all costs.

As to why those three filed the cases, who knows--this stuff has been done before for various presidential candidates over the years. In Berg's case, people cite he is a Democrat; it is also important to note he is an extreme and bitter Clinton supporter and being a Democrat does not disavow the possibility of him having racial/religious(if he thinks Obama is Muslim)/etc fears/prejudices--even Democrats have their crazed out, nut-job bigots. In the case of Andy Martin(the latest guy to file a case), he's already notorious for his virulent anti-Semitic remarks and has been running around claiming that Obama is a Muslim, among other discredited idiocies he's spouted out.

Edited by shepard, 24 October 2008 - 11:45 PM.
Do not insult fellow posters.


#26 david ellis

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Posted 24 October 2008 - 10:10 PM

For the sane, I'd just recommend not feeding the troll, err, Luv2increase, any further.


suspire, I noticed that you were unable to reduce the proposition to 25 words or less. I would love to see it done. Even 50 words would really be appreciated.

It is too easy to copy trash from somewhere and post it here. A waste of electrons, a sign of some effort and analysis would be appreciated.

Edited by shepard, 24 October 2008 - 11:45 PM.
Don't insult fellow posters.


#27 luv2increase

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Posted 24 October 2008 - 11:43 PM

Instead of non-stop flame wars empathy and david, why not try and disprove my point? Do that or give me a viable explanation why Obama has failed yet to turn in his birth certificate, college records, and medical records. What is he hiding.

#28 suspire

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Posted 24 October 2008 - 11:58 PM

For the sane, I'd just recommend not feeding the troll, err, Luv2increase, any further.


suspire, I noticed that you were unable to reduce the proposition to 25 words or less. I would love to see it done. Even 50 words would really be appreciated.

It is too easy to copy trash from somewhere and post it here. A waste of electrons, a sign of some effort and analysis would be appreciated.


25 words or less: "A few crazies are trying a last ditch effort to stop Obama from winning the election. Luv2increase is parroting their talking points."

By the way, I did a little research on good ole Mr. Berg. His last big case:

(Lafayette Hill, Pennsylvania - 01/04/07) - Philip J. Berg, Esquire, [Berg is a former Deputy Attorney General of Pennsylvania; former candidate for Governor and U.S. Senate; an attorney with offices in Montgomery County, PA and an active practice in Philadelphia, PA, who prior hereto has filed a RICO lawsuit against Bush and others for the events of 9/11 and plans to re-file shortly] announced today that he was issuing a call for world leaders to arrest and try Bush and Cheney for the global crimes of 9/11/01.

Philip J. Berg, Esquire stated in a letter to the nations throughout the world:

"It is time for the nations of the world to come forth and take the leadership because of the failure of the United States Government and the States where crimes were committed on 09/11/01, where no thorough investigation and indictments occurred, to investigate, arrest and prosecute the people responsible for the murders on 9/11/01, specifically including George W. Bush and Richard Cheney."

Yeah. So. Um. His last big claim to fame: He's a 9/11 Truth Squad Nutso. Luv2increase, the irony of your using Berg's case to support your position overwhelms me.

Edited by suspire, 24 October 2008 - 11:59 PM.


#29 RighteousReason

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Posted 24 October 2008 - 11:58 PM

Obama was born in Kenya, therefore he is not a natural-born citizen, and hence can't be President of the United States.

That's only what the constitution says!

A poll showed that 80% of Obama supporters believe that the Supreme Court should ALWAYS overrule the constitution in favor of "fairness"

They spit in the face of the Founding Fathers of America, just like their Marxist Messiah.

Edited by Savage, 25 October 2008 - 12:03 AM.


#30 RighteousReason

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 12:00 AM

Instead of non-stop flame wars empathy and david, why not try and disprove my point? Do that or give me a viable explanation why Obama has failed yet to turn in his birth certificate, college records, and medical records. What is he hiding.

You arrogant fool. How dare you ask for a direct answer to a simple question. Just what exactly were you thinking here?




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