98 replies to this topic

[Guacamolium]

So employing a manufacturer within the US like Vitalabs to synthesize things like aniracetam is out of the question for companies? I guess they either charge too much or it's in some way prohibited?

[brain]

So employing a manufacturer within the US like Vitalabs to synthesize things like aniracetam is out of the question for companies? I guess they either charge too much or it's in some way prohibited?

have there been any updates on the piracetam ban? unfortunatly, i was unaware of this until today, and just last night i placed an order at BN for their piracetam power. this would be great timing, since it seems to be in stock and i placed an order for 700g, however, i noticed that the expiration date is 1/9/09. somehow i didn't notice this last night. i'm waiting on their call to either have my order delayed or refunded. does anyone know where to purchase piracetam that may have a later expiration date? is it possible that it could be safe to take even though technically expired?

[Pike]

So employing a manufacturer within the US like Vitalabs to synthesize things like aniracetam is out of the question for companies? I guess they either charge too much or it's in some way prohibited?

have there been any updates on the piracetam ban? unfortunatly, i was unaware of this until today, and just last night i placed an order at BN for their piracetam power. this would be great timing, since it seems to be in stock and i placed an order for 700g, however, i noticed that the expiration date is 1/9/09. somehow i didn't notice this last night. i'm waiting on their call to either have my order delayed or refunded. does anyone know where to purchase piracetam that may have a later expiration date? is it possible that it could be safe to take even though technically expired?

crap..... just noticed that expiration date too... shit.

[synapse]

I just posted our COA for aniracetam at CerebralHealth.com at http://www.cerebralh...iracetamCOA.jpg

[brain]

So employing a manufacturer within the US like Vitalabs to synthesize things like aniracetam is out of the question for companies? I guess they either charge too much or it's in some way prohibited?

have there been any updates on the piracetam ban? unfortunatly, i was unaware of this until today, and just last night i placed an order at BN for their piracetam power. this would be great timing, since it seems to be in stock and i placed an order for 700g, however, i noticed that the expiration date is 1/9/09. somehow i didn't notice this last night. i'm waiting on their call to either have my order delayed or refunded. does anyone know where to purchase piracetam that may have a later expiration date? is it possible that it could be safe to take even though technically expired?

crap..... just noticed that expiration date too... shit.

i talked to someone from BN. supposedly its not actually expired and the COA is an old copy that they only upload once to show that they have them.

[Pike]

I know this is bumping an old topic, but this is something of great concern to me. Does anyone have more updated information about this?

[Heliotrope]

So employing a manufacturer within the US like Vitalabs to synthesize things like aniracetam is out of the question for companies? I guess they either charge too much or it's in some way prohibited?

have there been any updates on the piracetam ban? unfortunatly, i was unaware of this until today, and just last night i placed an order at BN for their piracetam power. this would be great timing, since it seems to be in stock and i placed an order for 700g, however, i noticed that the expiration date is 1/9/09. somehow i didn't notice this last night. i'm waiting on their call to either have my order delayed or refunded. does anyone know where to purchase piracetam that may have a later expiration date? is it possible that it could be safe to take even though technically expired?

crap..... just noticed that expiration date too... shit.

expiration for this piracetam batch is 1/9/09? i got mine in dec , there's no expiration printed on jar, could it be bad? do med/supps really have to be used within expiration or bad for body/health?

Where did you find the expiration date ? I looked all over, no date, all it mentions is dietary supplement: Health Performance Fitness etc. okay for my consumption?

700g is 291 servings, enough for 1 year

opened jar, looks like sugar/ salt but tastes disgusting, spitted it out after I licked a little. lstill have the crappy vomit-inducing taste/after-taste. Looks white enough , but maybe seems like there's some tiny darker spots, and furriness, could be lighting. Various clumps and lumps , from large to small.

One is a sizable rock and seems as hard, like NaCl block, most smaller than pebbles breaking upon probing , laying about on top of powder

Edited by HYP86, 11 January 2009 - 07:53 PM.

[Declmem]

I bought a jug from BN in december too so I emailed them a few days ago, and they said it was a different batch, and that the expiration date for the stuff we bought is 2011

[Colega]

I bought a jug from BN in december too so I emailed them a few days ago, and they said it was a different batch, and that the expiration date for the stuff we bought is 2011

I bought a ton of this stuff and then checked to see how long it would last. Dennis at BN told me the expiration on my batch was April 2010 and said "if you vacuum seal it and put it in fridge it will last much longer. I honestly don't think we will be able to get piracetam but for maybe a few more months, so it was a smart purchase."

Any idea if it does you any damage after it's gotten a bit old?

[Declmem]

According to BN, it never expires, it just loses potency after a certain time. So I would assume it wouldn't be harmful after expiration. That's what they told me, anyway.

[ak34]

bulknutrition/1fast400 sent me an e-mail saying aniracetam will be back in stock next week.....just in case anyone is interested

[Ben]

I just posted our COA for aniracetam at CerebralHealth.com at http://www.cerebralh...iracetamCOA.jpg

Who did that analysis? Is that just a piece of paper your Chinese supplier gave you?

[Pike]

bulknutrition/1fast400 sent me an e-mail saying aniracetam will be back in stock next week.....just in case anyone is interested

you know, when things like this happen, it leads me to believe that this whole "racetams are on their way out" thing was, perhaps, a big scare to throw off the supply/demand equilibrium. I mean, for a business who's main product is essentially the life-blood of a sub-culture/niche-market, the scare of a sudden loss in supply would make demand skyrocket, thus making price skyrocket. I really hope I'm wrong about this.

[Declmem]

If it is a ploy, I fell for it! I ordered a tub from BN after I first read this thread.

That said, it is highly doubtful, since both BN and RI raised this concern at the same time. Competing small businesses very rarely even talk to each other directly, much less conspire with each other to raise the price. More likely they were both pulling from the same manufacturer. If it is a ploy to raise the price, it would most likely have originated with the manufacturer. Maybe the manufacturer is the one who started the FDA rumor?

[synapse]

Both the FDA and the chinese government seem to be cracking down on racetam imports and exports. The chinese government instituted new policies regarding the racetams at the beginning of the year.

There is likely to be limited supply of the racetams for the foreseeable future and the FDA may eventually make the racetams prescription-only. I would strongly encourage checking with suppliers to make sure they have any of the racetams in stock prior to ordering (especially in larger quantities).

Edited by synapse, 23 January 2009 - 03:54 PM.

[Pike]

Both the FDA and the chinese government seem to be cracking down on racetam imports and exports. The chinese government instituted new policies regarding the racetams at the beginning of the year.

There is likely to be limited supply of the racetams for the foreseeable future and the FDA may eventually make the racetams prescription-only. I would strongly encourage checking with suppliers to make sure they have any of the racetams in stock prior to ordering (especially in larger quantities).

I don't see how that could be, seeing as Bulk Nutrition just announced that they would be RESTOCKING their Aniracetam. Actually, I think it might have been this thread (or something like this thread on another forum) that all of this scare was just due to ONE shipment being turned around at port.

However, I do find it rather funny that BN and RI order from the same manufacturer, because BN seems to get such a bad rep for their quality.

If the FDA was going to make the racetams prescription only, then wouldn't there be some sort of series of studies we could follow leading up to FDA approval for prescription?

[ak34]

Both the FDA and the chinese government seem to be cracking down on racetam imports and exports. The chinese government instituted new policies regarding the racetams at the beginning of the year.

There is likely to be limited supply of the racetams for the foreseeable future and the FDA may eventually make the racetams prescription-only. I would strongly encourage checking with suppliers to make sure they have any of the racetams in stock prior to ordering (especially in larger quantities).

I know this subject sucks and we just need an answer but I was on the phone with BN today and they said once their stock is gone, its gone. Who ever they get it from doesn't feel its worth the risk to try and import it when they might get stuck eating the cost. He also said that gov't will regulate it soon. I asked by the end of the year and he said sooner. NutraceuticsRx said today that they were refunding my money for the bulk aniracetam order I had place with them a few weeks back and that they are dicontinueing the bulk product but will still carry their (aniracetam) capped version. The girl on the phone had heard nothing about not being able to obtain aniracetam. Any new info. from anyone else? On a side note, my credit is being used to pay for bulk acai berry..........anyone have any experience with this?

[Guacamolium]

"Availability of most racetam ingredients has become limited, but there has been no official statement on the issue from the FDA that we are aware of. Many suppliers have discontinued these products due to the frustration of not being able to keep them in stock consistently and other aggravations. We plan to offer these products for as long as we are able to.

Sincerely,
Aaron Ward
Cognitive Nutrition"

"Thank you for your email regarding Oxiracetum. I regret to say that we do not deal with this material due to product liability concerns. It is simply one of those materials which we feel may be questionable in terms of safety---if not from a consumer standpoint, from a regulatory standpoint. It has always been my policy to avoid products which fall into a gray area and I consider this one of those. I hope you appreciate my position.

Kindest regards,

Vic Shull

Vitalabs, Inc."

Not even an American manufacturer will synthesize it - at least Vitalabs won't. I've been calling the FDA and so far nobody there has a clue about racetam importation and status. I've been referred to HQ and I'm awaiting a response.

[Pike]

I don't imagine that there is a serious "ban" on racetams if there isn't a clear "NO WAY" from the FDA. And seeing as these are being sold as nutritional supplements, not pharmaceuticals, then even if there WAS any sort of ban in place it would be irrelevant because selling them as supps goes right through that little loophole.

[synapse]

We just got in a shipment of Aniracetam at CerebralHealth.com, but the FDA seems to really be cracking down. The shipment took almost two weeks to get through customs and FDA review. They seem to be taking a close look at the businesses and people involved.

Edited by synapse, 04 February 2009 - 02:34 PM.

[Guacamolium]

Okay, FDA got back to me and gave info for one or more seizures.

Refusal reasons for oxiracetam and aniracetam:

Manufacturer FEI: 3006978326
Manufacturer Name: Jiangsu Soho Inter
Manufacturer address line 1: No 48 Ning Nan Rd
Manufacturer address line 2:
Manufacturer City: Nanjing
Manufacturer Province/state:
Manufacturer Country: China
Product code: 54YCR99
Importers product description: 8651-2696-7739 Aniracetam (Draganon), Powder, 112 kg
Refusal date: 05-DEC-2008
FDA_District: SEA-DO
Entry/doc/line/sfx: 112-5238728-0/1/1/
Carrier: FEDERAL EXPRESS
Bill of Lading:
FDA sample analysis: No
FDA record of private lab sample analysis: No
Charge(s): UNSFDIETSP

Manufacturer FEI: 3007205537
Manufacturer Name: Depont Molecular Co Ltd
Manufacturer address line 1: Rm B No 288 South Zhongshand Road
Manufacturer address line 2:
Manufacturer City: Jiangsu
Manufacturer Province/state:
Manufacturer Country: China
Product code: 45CH-99
Importers product description: 867410264765 OXIRACETAM
Refusal date: 08-DEC-2008
FDA_District: SEA-DO
Entry/doc/line/sfx: 112-5232526-4/1/1/
Carrier: FEDERAL EXPRESS
Bill of Lading:
FDA sample analysis: No
FDA record of private lab sample analysis: No
Charge(s): UNSFDIETSP


Reason: UNSFDIETSP
Section: 402(f)(1)(B), 801(a)(3) Adulteration
Charge: The article appears to be a dietary supplement or
ingredient for which there is inadequate information to
provide reasonable assurance that such ingredient does not
present a significant or unreasonable risk of illness or

Reason: UNSFDIETUS
Section: 402(f)(1)(D), 801(a)(3) Adulteration
Charge: The article is or contains a dietary supplement that
renders it adulterated under paragraph (a)(1) under
conditions of use recommended or suggested in the labeling
of such dietary supplement

[HenryHH]

So in other words, purchasing racetams through the internet (or oxiracetam and aniracetam, at least) is now essentially as illegal as ordering prescription drugs?

I should probably buy some oxiracetam from BN while there's still an opportunity...

[Pike]

the main flaw in this entire argument is that the FDA has, themselves, policies put in place that ASSURE that the racetams would be shipped.

it was posted before, but it should be posted again:
http://www.cfsan.fda...s/dietsupp.html

so, as far as i see it, the entire reason that the shipment was turned around was simply just a wrongful exercise of power. in fact, it violates the rights of those importing it seeing as they are NOT BEING MARKETED as cures or any kind disease preventers. furthermore, seeing as there is an ABUNDANCE of literature that provides the FDA that the racetams thus far developed have been deemed as generally regarded as safe, then that would seem to be in direct contrast for the citation of that the seizure was authorized for!

so... no. to me, all it seems like is a bunch of incompetence mostly in part by the FDA, but additionally by the synthesis companies.

[hamishm00]

If you're in the US, just order it locally through BN. Problem solved.

[synapse]

There have been some major seizures as of late, but I agree with Pike about it being perhaps a "wrongful exercise of power". The racetams are still legal and this is essentially a black and white issue- for the moment at least. As long as they are legal, we will continue stocking and offering them.

[power.bulls.x]

If you're in the US, just order it locally through BN. Problem solved.

i cant find piracetam at Bulknutrition.

[Mike M]

They choosen to not longer carry the racetam's, along with a host of other ingredients. They are now at smartpowders.com.

[Rags847]

They choosen to not longer carry the racetam's, along with a host of other ingredients. They are now at smartpowders.com.

Blank about us/company info page
http://www.smartpowd...com/aboutus.asp

[synapse]

They choosen to not longer carry the racetam's, along with a host of other ingredients. They are now at smartpowders.com.

Blank about us/company info page
http://www.smartpowd...com/aboutus.asp

From what I can gather, Smart Powders is a project of Mike McCandless of North Carolina who was a principle party of Bulk Nutrition at one point. Not sure of Mike's educational or personal background, but he is also involved with Primaforce. The details of any deal made between BN and Mike about offering certain nootropics remains a bit inside closed doors at the moment. Not exactly sure what may have gone down there, but it may not make much difference anyway at this point. Mike and Smart Powders is currently offering one of the best deals on piracetam. His prices on the higher racetam analogs such as aniracetam and oxiracetam is perhaps a bit high at the moment and we (CerebralHealth.com) are able to offer better prices in higher quantities. Smart Powders and Mike's work is definitely worth keeping an eye on and while our companies may be competitors on some level, Mike is doing good work from what I can tell and may be an alliance partner in the future.

And just a note in regards to the racetam ban- the racetams are making it through customs presently. We just got in a shipment of pramiracetam yesterday.

Edited by synapse, 05 May 2009 - 12:55 PM.

[Mike M]

I do run smartpowders. I owned 1fast400/bn through 06. I still manufacture the 1fast400 line along with other supplement companies lines today. I have lab tests on all the products I sell, all done by RTP Labs in Raleigh, NC. If someone wants a big order, they are always welcome to contact me. I just got the site setup about 2 weeks ago when BN/1fast decided to go a different direction with their site. My non compete is active till the end of this year so I have a limited range I can carry till then. If anybody has any questions, I'll be happy to answer them: my65cuda@aol.com