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URGENT ALERT from THE FIRST IMMORTAL


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#241 Shannon Vyff

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 09:54 PM

I think this argument started because a homeopathy treatment facility was posted, and they will often give vitamin injections or IV vitamin treatment--which could help. Although the debate over homeopathy is something many would find interesting, it deserves to be in a different thread--this thread is for updates on O'Rights and a place for people to help him.

Is anyone able to go to where he is (Portland Maine) and help him get paperwork signed?


I do not need anyone to help me sign paperwork that I'm aware of. What paperwork would you be talking about Shannon, and what sort of help would I need for anyone?



Any paperwork you are still needing. You may have people there that you know that can help you though and you don't need a volunteer from ImmInst? I'm just hoping you have someone to help you get things done if you need help.

#242 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 09:56 PM

I'm not very knowlegable on homeopathy so I'm not going to knock it, but when it comes to adding something to my program, it must have some scientific basis or rationale for using it. I favor Alternative solutions but not to the eclusion of Conventional therapy. I believe if I could freely draw on both camps I would be an a far better position. I did like the info on Zometa, and Kurt oddly enough green lighted that, so they are going to start that treatment before I leave the hospital.

That's good news. Maybe there are other treatments Tham has referenced that Kurt might approve of as well.
He posted a list of them recently...not sure which thread.



I've culled through the list. Zometa was the only clear cut winner, well, some of the others are variations of drugs in the same class that could be used in case Zometa leads to renal problems.

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#243 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 11:55 PM

I think this argument started because a homeopathy treatment facility was posted, and they will often give vitamin injections or IV vitamin treatment--which could help. Although the debate over homeopathy is something many would find interesting, it deserves to be in a different thread--this thread is for updates on O'Rights and a place for people to help him.

Is anyone able to go to where he is (Portland Maine) and help him get paperwork signed?


I do not need anyone to help me sign paperwork that I'm aware of. What paperwork would you be talking about Shannon, and what sort of help would I need for anyone?



Any paperwork you are still needing. You may have people there that you know that can help you though and you don't need a volunteer from ImmInst? I'm just hoping you have someone to help you get things done if you need help.

Any paperwork you are still needing? That's a rather vague response Shannon. What specific documents might you be talking about?

#244 Shannon Vyff

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 03:50 AM

Specifically anything that you may need. Help with finding someone who will administer I.V. vitamins, help with advocating on your behalf with doctors. Helping you get everything in order, just having someone to help with stuff. If someone is within driving distance and you would like assistance with anything, it would be great if we can find someone willing to help in the area.

#245 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 07:41 AM

Specifically anything that you may need. Help with finding someone who will administer I.V. vitamins, help with advocating on your behalf with doctors. Helping you get everything in order, just having someone to help with stuff. If someone is within driving distance and you would like assistance with anything, it would be great if we can find someone willing to help in the area.


Maybe I'm a little slow here Shannon, but this post hasn't added much clarity. "Specifically anything that you may need." That doesn't identify anything specific. "...just having someone to help with stuff." What stuff? The problems with the IV and Doctors have been well outlined. The solution with respect to IVVC is also clear.

#246 Shannon Vyff

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 01:28 AM

I don't know of any documents that you would not know about. I'm in no position to say what documents would need to be signed and which would not, that is all up to you. I'd like there to be someone to help you if you need help, everything from medical power of attorney to setting things up for your cat. It seems like having someone there to help with phone calls to set up the IV vitamin therapy would be useful, and helping you navigate the Doctors/hospital administration. You've been doing a great job though on your own, I'm only saying I'd like to find the help if you would like the additional help.

#247 Dmitri

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Posted 23 December 2008 - 06:38 AM

I don't know of any documents that you would not know about. I'm in no position to say what documents would need to be signed and which would not, that is all up to you. I'd like there to be someone to help you if you need help, everything from medical power of attorney to setting things up for your cat. It seems like having someone there to help with phone calls to set up the IV vitamin therapy would be useful, and helping you navigate the Doctors/hospital administration. You've been doing a great job though on your own, I'm only saying I'd like to find the help if you would like the additional help.


Shannon, TFI is having problems getting someone to administer the Vit C IV and his Doctor is part of the problem.

Missminni mentioned the following:

It appears that the doctor believes in chemo and only chemo. That's the program. He owns his own chemotherapy center and the bottom
line is more chemo means more money. It's really that simple. Not a good guy and a total egomaniac. He won't even hear of any other
protocols. I know it sounds unbelievable, but it happens more often than you think.
Bill's between a rock and a hard place. He needs to have a primary doctor so that he can get into the hospital when he has to, and
no other doctor will take him as a patient once his primary doctor talks to them. He's a powerful man in that medical community and wields that power effectively. Actually, I think what he is doing is criminal (as in murder) and he should be sued for it, but right now,
all that matters is trying to get Bill an outside nurse or paramed to help him at home with the IV's. He can't fight the doctor head on...How could he?
He doesn't have family (or the money) to help him fight and he's too sick to do it himself. He's stuck with him.


However, some members here have mentioned that no nurse or Paramedic would help unless a doctor agreed, if there's an adverse reaction to the VITC IV (due to the number cancer cells dying) the Nurse probably wouldn't know what to do.

#248 k10

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 08:19 AM

This is just unbelievable. You need to get the RIGHT treatment WITH OR WITHOUT a doctors support. It is within your right to be getting intravenous vitamin C. I still can't believe you aren't getting some of the most basic treatments necessary to overcome this.

If a doctor doesn't support it, and if a nurse isn't willing to administer it -- take it in your own hands! Learn how to give yourself vitamin C intravenously, or by injection. It isn't brain surgery, you can do it -- and you don't have to let your doctor know. You should be taking around 100,000-150,000mg of vitamin C daily at this point, building up slowly. This is the absolute most important thing every cancer patients needs to be doing as part of their overall treatment.

PM me if you would like me to provide you with resources to do this yourself. You can't rely on doctors when it comes to your health, they are just there to prescribe you the medication and give you surgery when required. If you are able to treat yourself with IV therapy, this will open up a lot of new doors for you in regards to treatment!

Here is an extensive guide on intravenous vitamin C therapy:
http://www.seanet.co..._guide_1988.htm


From doctoryourself.com, http://www.doctoryou...strategies.html


Intravenous Vitamin C Checklist


1) Know before you go. It is immeasurably easier to get what you want if you contract for it beforehand. Prenuptial agreements, new car deals, roofing and siding estimates, and hospital care need to be negotiated in advance. When the tow truck comes, it is too late to complain about who’s driving. Same with an ambulance, or a hasty hospital admission. You have to pre-plan, and here’s how:

2) Get a letter. Yes, a “note from the doctor” still carries clout. Have your general practitioner, today if possible, sign a letter stating that he backs your request for a vitamin C I.V. drip, 10 grams per 12 hours, should you (or your designated loved one) require hospitalization. Have copies made and keep them handy. Update the letter annually. You now have your G.P.’s permission. Good start, but not enough.

3) Get some more letters. Obtain a similar letter form every specialist that you have used, are using, or may use in the foreseeable future. This sounds cumbersome, but is no more unmanageable than most people’s grocery lists. Keep it in perspective: this is just as important as wearing a medical alert bracelet or keeping a fresh battery in Grandpa’s pacemaker.

4) Make some calls. Telephone a representative or two from every hospital within one hundred miles of your home. Find out which wants your business the most. When you find a “live one” on the phone, write down their name and title, and follow up with a letter.

5) Write for your rights. In your letter, ask for the hospital’s permission to have a vitamin C IV drip, infusion, push or injection, as well as oral vitamin C, should you or your designated family member(s) come in to that hospital. YOU MUST GET THIS IN WRITING. Now, do NOT say, “I want that in writing,” because people do not like that. But if you WRITE to them by US Mail, they will naturally write back to you. Bingo.

Helpful hint: Do NOT correspond by email; you want a real signature on hospital letterhead. (And no, don’t ask for that either! It will happen automatically if you write first.)

You might be wondering, What if they write back, “No, we won’t.” Hold onto that letter. You can make a real stink with it should you need to play hardball in court, and I do NOT mean a handball court.

These actions are much more likely, however:

a) They simply will not write back. OK, so ask yourself this: What if your credit card company didn’t respond to your letters? So would you entrust your life to a hospital that refuses to even answer their mail? Make a point to go someplace else. If you live in a rural community or smaller city, you might be thinking that you do not have a choice of hospitals. Maybe not for the first 24 hours in an unexpected circumstance. But people can be moved. That’s what modern transportation is for. Famous hospitals get people from all over. How many people do you know that live within walking distance of Sloan-Ketterling, Roswell, the Brigham, or the Mayo Clinic?

b) What is most likely is that the hospital’s representative will send you a garbage answer, with a response so noncommittal as to be unusable. This may mean that you wrote the wrong person, or wrote the wrong letter. Try this: have your doctor write the letter. The doctor’s letterhead and signature; your composition. Go ahead; you can give a professional a rough draft of what you want said. I had lawyer ask me to do exactly that when I sought (and succeeded in getting) a vitamin C IV into my hospitalized father. I wrote it and faxed it to the attorney; his staff rewrote it on his stationery and he signed it. It saves time.

Helpful hint: Be sure your (doctor’s) letter clearly REQUESTS A REPLY.

Another Helpful hint: FAX wherever you can to save time. Always send a back-up copy of the letter by postal mail. Then, write again to confirm that they received it.

c) It is also quite possible that they will ask for more information. This could be a genuine interest, but it is more likely a stall. If you think Nero fiddled whilst Rome burned, you should see what medical bureaucrats can do. To cut through the treacle, you need to understand the nature of the beast. The first rule of lion taming is, You have to know more than the lions. Therefore:

6. Know the law. Many states have enacted legislation that makes it possible for a physician to provide any natural therapy that a patient requests without fear of losing his or her license. If your state has such a law, it will make it somewhat easier to get a doctor to prescribe a vitamin C IV.

7. Know the power structure. Find out who is in charge.

I have heard doctors say that they’d be happy to start a megavitamin C IV but the hospital will not let them. Then, when asked, I have heard the hospital say that they allow vitamin C IVs but the doctors won’t do them. To avoid an endless Catch-22 situation, you have to know the ropes and where everybody stands.

On the doctor side:
Which physician (as opposed to witch doctor) is in charge? It could be the attending surgeon; it could be your general practitioner; it could be the chief resident. One thing is for sure: someone has the power to prescribe. Go to the person that can do you the most good (or harm) and start your negotiations there. If you can persuade the king, the castle is yours.

On the hospital side:
Which of the administrators has the clout? Talk to their secretaries (they are the people who really run things anyway) and you will find out. It could be that the most influential person for you may be the hospital’s patient rights advocate or V. P. for customer service. It might even be the public relations director. Who knows? You sure don’t, so remove the veil of anonymity and find out.

On the patient side:
The patient, if conscious, has all the power because it is his/her body. If a patient insists loud and long enough, s/he can get almost anything. Since patients tend to be sick, and therefore easily slip into becoming non-combatants, a family member has to get in there and pitch for them. A highly experienced nurse told me that she would never leave a family member in a hospital without a 24-hour-a-day guard in the form of a friend or family member or other advocate. That is sound advice from a lady who’s seen it.

Next to the patient, the most powerful family member is the spouse. After that, it would be children. You do not have to have power of attorney to have power, but it helps. If the patient is unable to speak, act, or think, it may be essential. Do not wait until the patient is incapacitated to plan this. Your family needs to come together (difficult though this may be) and present a preplanned, unified front to the medical and administrative people. You may think I am overstating the case, but I have seen patients die simply because NO ONE TOOK THE REINS AND GOT THE VITAMIN C IN THE VEINS. I have seen vitamin C IVs halted simply because the patient was moved to (or from) intensive care. Think that one over. I have seen vitamin C prescriptions over-ridden by a nurse or a pharmacist. You would not think that possible, would you. Well, it is. There is no nice way to phrase this. Stay on top of the situation or you will have a premature burial on your hands.

8. Know your recourse. If you are rich, get your lawyer on the phone. Better yet, bring your lawyer into the hospital. If you are like the rest of us, you may simply have to bluff if you threaten to call your attorney. The purpose here is to save the life of your loved one, not to make a buck from a malpractice suit. Personally, I think malpractice suits are a sign of the most abject failure on the part of the family, as well as the medical profession. In the same way that accident insurance does not prevent accidents but only pays the costs, so do malpractice settlements fail to resuscitate a dead family member. “Death control” is somewhat like birth control in that you have to act before the event takes place. But if we push the analogy, we realize a grim truth: there is no such thing as a “morning after” pill for rigor mortis, nor can you abort a funeral.

9. Know the facts about vitamin C IVs. For this, there is absolutely no alternative to reading up on the subject. Here is what you will want to begin with:

http://www.doctoryou...ennerpaper.html
http://www.doctoryou...m/vitaminc.html
http://www.doctoryou.../titration.html
http://www.doctoryou...o_cathcart.html
http://www.doctoryou.../naturedoc.html
http://www.doctoryou.../hospitals.html

Professionally speaking, I am not really all that interested in vitamins. I am, however, extremely interested in saving life. The reading I referenced above may make all the difference in your case.

10. Know how to settle controversy and avoid the run-around.

Doctors and hospitals are quick to offer rather bogus reasons why they would deny your request for a vitamin C IV. Each of these arguments is a lot of bull, and easily refuted.

Their argument: We do not have Vitamin C for intravenous infusion in our pharmacy.
Your response: So get some. From another hospital; by Fed Ex, by med-evac helicopter. Or, just make it yourselves. Look: here’s instructions on how to prepare it, written by a highly experienced physician: http://www.doctoryou...com/vitciv.html

Their argument: We have never done this before.
Your response: Then this is a wonderful opportunity to learn. I’ve never lost a (insert family member’s position here) before.

Their argument: The patient is too ill.

Your response: That’s why we want the vitamin C IV.

Their argument: We might get into trouble if we do this.
Your response: You will be in legal trouble for sure if you don’t.

Their argument: There is no scientific evidence that this is safe, effective, appropriate for this case, blah, blah, blah . . .
Your response: Read this. (This short phrase is to be spoken as you produce a large stack of actual medical studies written by medical doctors who have successfully used vitamin C IV’s. See references mentioned above.)

Their argument: But we do not have time to read all those papers.
Your response: That’s OK. I already have, and it’s my body (or my father’s, or my mother’s). Run the vitamin C IV. Start with 10 grams every 12 hours and do not stop it without my written authorization.

Their argument: This hospital operates under our authority, these are our rules, and this is the way it is done.
Your response: This is my mother. If you deny her the treatment the family requests, you will be sued, and we will win. Do you really want to go to the wall on this one?

Confrontational? Admittedly, yes. But I have seen too many people die too soon. Dr. Frederick Robert Klenner was right when he said, “Some physicians would stand by and see their patient die rather than use ascorbic acid (vitamin C) because in their finite minds it exists only as a vitamin."

Don’t let it happen to your family.



Second ... please look into hyperbaric oxygen therapy


“I utilize mild Hyperbaric Therapy (mHBT) in all stages of cancer; upon detection, as well as pre and post
surgery, pre, post and during chemo and radiation. In fact if chemotherapy is used in conjunction with mHBT, the
chemotherapy dose must be reduced. The mHBT will potentate any primary cancer treatment. mHBT is the best
cancer prevention and cancer remission therapy out there, bar none.”
-Bergeron, Rhett, MD

“Most doctors are aware of hyperbaric oxygen therapy (HBOT), even if they seldom prescribe this treatment,
because oxygen applied to the body under pressure is approved for use in limited situations such as carbon
monoxide poisoning, poorly healed wounds, gas embolism, and decompression illness. Very few physicians,
however, are aware that oxygen therapies have far more advanced medical applications that are commonly used
in many countries outside the United States. In Russia, Europe, China, Japan, and Cuba among others, oxygen
therapies treat a broad range of conditions, such as arthritis, cancer cerebral palsy, HIV, Lyme disease, optic
neuritis, stroke, and even multiple sclerosis.”
(Yutsis, Pavel I., MD, Oxygen to the Rescue)

“… applying increased oxygen to diseased cells in the human body revitalizes or changes the cell structure.”
(Yutsis, Pavel I., MD, Oxygen to the Rescue)

“…many of the controversial treatments [for cancer] have produced dangerous side effects. Oxygen therapy is
not one of these. It is not toxic and has few, if any, side effects. Delivering oxygen to the cellular level has, in
many cases, stabilized the progress of a disease while awaiting a true cure.”
(Yutsis, Pavel I., MD, Oxygen to
the Rescue)

“By increasing the oxygen environment to the cancer cells, it makes them less virulent and in many instances
destroys them.
(Yutsis, Pavel I., MD, Oxygen to the Rescue)

“For the past fifty years, we have steadily been fighting cancer, and during that period, researchers and scientist
have known that cancer develops in low oxygen environments.”
(Yutsis, Pavel I., MD, Oxygen to the Rescue)

“An article published in the British magazine New Scientist discussed findings presented at an April 1994
meeting of the American Association of Cancer Researchers in San Francisco that oxygen can be an important
part of tumor treatment. It appears that tumors have regions that are starved of oxygen, which results when blood
vessels grow haphazardly inside a developing cancer. The article reported that Dr. Beverly Teicher of the
prestigious Dana-Farber Cancer Institute in Boston told the meeting that this lack of oxygen was hampering
treatment by protecting the tumor against conventional therapies such as radiation and chemotherapy. By
increasing the oxygen levels in the tumor, conventional therapies can by more successful.”
(Altman, Nathaniel,
Oxygen Healing Therapies)

“…cancer cells become more sensitive to irradiation in the presence of increased oxygen tension.”
(Altman,
Nathaniel, Oxygen Healing Therapies)

“Cancer cells are less virulent and may even be destroyed by the presence of a high oxygen environment.”
(Altman, Nathaniel, Oxygen Healing Therapies)

“Lack of oxygen clearly plays a major role in causing cells to become cancerous.”
(Goldblatt, Harry, MD, Journal
of Experimental Medicine)

”In all serious disease states we find a concomitant low oxygen state…Low oxygen in the body tissues is a sure
indicator for disease…Hypoxia, or lack of oxygen in the tissues, is the fundamental cause for all degenerative
disease. Oxygen is the source of life to all cells.
(Levine, Stephen, MD, Oxygen Deficiency: A Concomitant to All
Degenerative Illness


You really need to start getting these basic treatments... your focus should be on Vitamin C & Oxygen Therapy right now. Once you have a way of getting these two basic cancer treatments, then add on from there. I'm still pretty bewildered that after all this time you aren't getting steady mega-dosages of vitamin C.

#249 Mixter

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 08:16 PM

Hey TFI, it's good to see you're still here and in a condition for an occasional post. Hang in there.
At this point, I 100% support k10's advice. Go for it, maybe you can set up a call with k10 and hear
what he has to say? I hope with some advice from him you can learn the minimum and self-administer
the VitC to yourself, perhaps also with relatives' help. You have every right to do so.

As a motivation, IV Vit C can not only beat cancer but also reduce pain, even from bone
metastases.
Countless IV C protocols and testimonials I could find are talking about substantial
pain reduction, e.g: http://intravenousvi...solve-bone.html

6. From Cameron protocol: If painful skeletal metastases are present, relief of bone pain will occur in about 5 to 7 days, enabling opiates to be withdrawn without withdrawal symptoms. Skeletal or widespread visceral metastases are associated with increased urinary hydroxyproline (UHP) excretion reflecting collagen breakdown. Within 5 days of commencing ascorbate therapy, a sharp and sustained fall in UHP excretion will be noted.



#250 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 08:52 PM

I don't know of any documents that you would not know about. I'm in no position to say what documents would need to be signed and which would not, that is all up to you. I'd like there to be someone to help you if you need help, everything from medical power of attorney to setting things up for your cat. It seems like having someone there to help with phone calls to set up the IV vitamin therapy would be useful, and helping you navigate the Doctors/hospital administration. You've been doing a great job though on your own, I'm only saying I'd like to find the help if you would like the additional help.


Shannon, TFI is having problems getting someone to administer the Vit C IV and his Doctor is part of the problem.

Missminni mentioned the following:

It appears that the doctor believes in chemo and only chemo. That's the program. He owns his own chemotherapy center and the bottom
line is more chemo means more money. It's really that simple. Not a good guy and a total egomaniac. He won't even hear of any other
protocols. I know it sounds unbelievable, but it happens more often than you think.
Bill's between a rock and a hard place. He needs to have a primary doctor so that he can get into the hospital when he has to, and
no other doctor will take him as a patient once his primary doctor talks to them. He's a powerful man in that medical community and wields that power effectively. Actually, I think what he is doing is criminal (as in murder) and he should be sued for it, but right now,
all that matters is trying to get Bill an outside nurse or paramed to help him at home with the IV's. He can't fight the doctor head on...How could he?
He doesn't have family (or the money) to help him fight and he's too sick to do it himself. He's stuck with him.


However, some members here have mentioned that no nurse or Paramedic would help unless a doctor agreed, if there's an adverse reaction to the VITC IV (due to the number cancer cells dying) the Nurse probably wouldn't know what to do.


No need for me to respond to your last post Shannon, Dmitri took the words right out of my mouth :-D Perfect post Dmitri. :)

#251 Shannon Vyff

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 10:32 PM

K10 thank you for sharing your experiences and such an extensive list. It does seem like one can fight what their doctor sees as best, but it almost requires someone helping you full time to send letters, present a case and such.

#252 k10

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 10:39 PM

K10 thank you for sharing your experiences and such an extensive list. It does seem like one can fight what their doctor sees as best, but it almost requires someone helping you full time to send letters, present a case and such.


Like I said, he doesn't need a doctors support, he can administer vitamin C intravenously himself with the support of an open minded friend or family member willing to learn.

If he wants to be prepared for continued administration of the vitamin C if he is hospitalized, then he will indeed have to have someone by his side to get his wishes fulfilled successfully.

Maybe he can consider hiring a lawyer? Maybe we can set-up a fund to pay for the cost of the lawyer? Maybe there are special programs out there that will cover the costs of hiring a lawyer for those who cannot afford it? We should definitely look into this... he shouldn't be bullied around by his doctors who think they know best.

#253 Shannon Vyff

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 10:44 PM

Bill what are your thoughts on this? Are you able to administer vitamin C intravenously yourself? I'm not sure if you have someone there with power of attorney or not to assist you. Do you think that a lawyer would be useful?

#254 Dmitri

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 12:14 AM

K10 thank you for sharing your experiences and such an extensive list. It does seem like one can fight what their doctor sees as best, but it almost requires someone helping you full time to send letters, present a case and such.


Like I said, he doesn't need a doctors support, he can administer vitamin C intravenously himself with the support of an open minded friend or family member willing to learn.

If he wants to be prepared for continued administration of the vitamin C if he is hospitalized, then he will indeed have to have someone by his side to get his wishes fulfilled successfully.

Maybe he can consider hiring a lawyer? Maybe we can set-up a fund to pay for the cost of the lawyer? Maybe there are special programs out there that will cover the costs of hiring a lawyer for those who cannot afford it? We should definitely look into this... he shouldn't be bullied around by his doctors who think they know best.


What if Bill has a strong reaction to the therapy? It’s the reason a medical professional is necessary; if IV Vit C is truly that effective against cancer cells would his body be able to resist the massive necrosis (cell death)?

#255 k10

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 01:54 AM

Ascorbic acid is an essential nutrient commonly regarded as an antioxidant. In this study, we showed that ascorbate at pharmacologic concentrations was a prooxidant, generating hydrogen-peroxide-dependent cytotoxicity toward a variety of cancer cells in vitro without adversely affecting normal cells. To test this action in vivo, normal oral tight control was bypassed by parenteral ascorbate administration. Real-time microdialysis sampling in mice bearing glioblastoma xenografts showed that a single pharmacologic dose of ascorbate produced sustained ascorbate radical and hydrogen peroxide formation selectively within interstitial fluids of tumors but not in blood. Moreover, a regimen of daily pharmacologic ascorbate treatment significantly decreased growth rates of ovarian (P < 0.005), pancreatic (P < 0.05), and glioblastoma (P < 0.001) tumors established in mice. Similar pharmacologic concentrations were readily achieved in humans given ascorbate intravenously. These data suggest that ascorbate as a prodrug may have benefits in cancers with poor prognosis and limited therapeutic options.

http://www.pnas.org/...nt/105/32/11105

Posted Image

In the news: http://news.bbc.co.u...lth/7540822.stm

#256 k10

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 02:03 AM

K10 thank you for sharing your experiences and such an extensive list. It does seem like one can fight what their doctor sees as best, but it almost requires someone helping you full time to send letters, present a case and such.


Like I said, he doesn't need a doctors support, he can administer vitamin C intravenously himself with the support of an open minded friend or family member willing to learn.

If he wants to be prepared for continued administration of the vitamin C if he is hospitalized, then he will indeed have to have someone by his side to get his wishes fulfilled successfully.

Maybe he can consider hiring a lawyer? Maybe we can set-up a fund to pay for the cost of the lawyer? Maybe there are special programs out there that will cover the costs of hiring a lawyer for those who cannot afford it? We should definitely look into this... he shouldn't be bullied around by his doctors who think they know best.


What if Bill has a strong reaction to the therapy? It's the reason a medical professional is necessary; if IV Vit C is truly that effective against cancer cells would his body be able to resist the massive necrosis (cell death)?



He'll have to be cautious and start slowly to see how his body reacts. The doctors won't be able to help him out very much even if he were to have a reaction. It won't be fun, and if there are any severe reactions he can always call an ambulance... though I believe it is highly unlikely it will reach that point.

The vitamin C only kills the cancer cells, and not the healthy cells. He will need to make sure his body is effectively getting rid of the cancerous cells by having an enema daily, drinking large amounts of water with some electrolytes & salt added, and to limit what he puts in his body.

Once he is comfortable with this, and sees that his body is handling it just fine, this can become a part of his routine that he won't even have to give much thought to. It is a very simple and effective treatment that needs to be done.

#257 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 02:23 AM

Hey TFI, it's good to see you're still here and in a condition for an occasional post. Hang in there.

:-D

#258 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 02:45 AM

This is just unbelievable. You need to get the RIGHT treatment WITH OR WITHOUT a doctors support. It is within your right to be getting intravenous vitamin C. I still can't believe you aren't getting some of the most basic treatments necessary to overcome this.

If a doctor doesn't support it, and if a nurse isn't willing to administer it -- take it in your own hands! Learn how to give yourself vitamin C intravenously, or by injection. It isn't brain surgery, you can do it -- and you don't have to let your doctor know. You should be taking around 100,000-150,000mg of vitamin C daily at this point, building up slowly. This is the absolute most important thing every cancer patients needs to be doing as part of their overall treatment.

PM me if you would like me to provide you with resources to do this yourself. You can't rely on doctors when it comes to your health, they are just there to prescribe you the medication and give you surgery when required. If you are able to treat yourself with IV therapy, this will open up a lot of new doors for you in regards to treatment!

K10, while I thank you for your contribution, we already have this data and more in my fighting cancer thread. I posted all the links you have and more. The issue is I need a professional nurse to hit my viens, and that isn't something that I am qualified to do.

#259 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 03:22 AM

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Bill what are your thoughts on this? Are you able to administer vitamin C intravenously yourself?

Absolutely not, it is out of the question. My veins are not an easy hit. They always have to send in the special team to get a draw on me. Even with hot packs and bulging veins that look easy to hit, my veins are deceptive, they will roll, jump even with a 23 gauge (special butterfly needle). And then, even with a good hit my veins will often explode or collapse. If seasoned pro’s who do this for a living have that kinda problem, I don’t see it as all wise that I this without someone who can do a consistent hit. I keep trying to get a PICC line installed, but Kurt on to me when it comes to that, so I haven’t been able to leave the hospital with one of those.

Edited by thefirstimmortal, 28 December 2008 - 03:23 AM.


#260 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 03:31 AM

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Bill what are your thoughts on this? Are you able to administer vitamin C intravenously yourself? I'm not sure if you have someone there with power of attorney or not to assist you. Do you think that a lawyer would be useful?

What good would a power of attorney do Shannon?

What is a lawyer going to do? What is Kurt doing legally wrong that raises a legal issue? Everyone here can say, “you have a right to get VC IV, but that is a legal fiction, I have no such legal right. As long as Kurt is offering standard treatment he is complying with the law. So I ask again, what is the legal issue that we would be fighting?

Even if you were to come up with a legal argument you’re forgetting something, do you really think have that kind of time to wind even a good issue through the court?

#261 eternaltraveler

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 03:32 AM

hitting an artery is easy if venous lines fail.

#262 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 03:35 AM

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I did a little research on hydrogen peroxide, which is supposed to be useful. I haven't been able to find a food grade source of hydrogen peroxide, perhaps a discussion for the fighting cancer thread.

#263 eternaltraveler

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 03:38 AM

does vit C have to be intravascular or can it be IM or subcutaneous? If thats the case it would be really easy.

#264 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 03:48 AM

does vit C have to be intravascular or can it be IM or subcutaneous? If thats the case it would be really easy.


It must be IV in order to work.

#265 Shannon Vyff

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 04:37 AM

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Bill what are your thoughts on this? Are you able to administer vitamin C intravenously yourself? I'm not sure if you have someone there with power of attorney or not to assist you. Do you think that a lawyer would be useful?

What good would a power of attorney do Shannon?

What is a lawyer going to do? What is Kurt doing legally wrong that raises a legal issue? Everyone here can say, “you have a right to get VC IV, but that is a legal fiction, I have no such legal right. As long as Kurt is offering standard treatment he is complying with the law. So I ask again, what is the legal issue that we would be fighting?

Even if you were to come up with a legal argument you’re forgetting something, do you really think have that kind of time to wind even a good issue through the court?



I was asking you if you wanted a lawyer, I think it would draw things out and make the Dr. less willing to work with you.

A power of attorney can help with researching and requesting treatments of the Dr. and generally be an advocate for you. A friend, a relative, an ImmInst volunteer if we find one, could fill in this position.

#266 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 05:09 AM

I was asking you if you wanted a lawyer,

No Shannon, there isn't any valid reason to get a lawyer involved, there is nothing a lawyer can do to help.


A power of attorney can help with researching and requesting treatments of the Dr. and generally be an advocate for you. A friend, a relative, an ImmInst volunteer if we find one, could fill in this position.

Shannon, I don't think you have a clear understanding of what a power of attorney is, and why it would be clearly useless.
How is it that you think a power of attorney can help with researching and requesting treatments?

#267 k10

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 05:27 AM

[quote name='Shannon' post='287292' date='27-Dec 2008, 09:37 PM'][quote name='thefirstimmortal' post='287270' date='27-Dec 2008, 11:31 PM']POSTED UNDER THE THREAT OF CENSORSHIP
[quote name='Shannon' post='287191' date='27-Dec 2008, 05:44 PM']Bill what are your thoughts on this? Are you able to administer vitamin C intravenously yourself? I'm not sure if you have someone there with power of attorney or not to assist you. Do you think that a lawyer would be useful?[/quote]
What good would a power of attorney do Shannon?

What is a lawyer going to do? What is Kurt doing legally wrong that raises a legal issue? Everyone here can say, "you have a right to get VC IV, but that is a legal fiction, I have no such legal right. As long as Kurt is offering standard treatment he is complying with the law. So I ask again, what is the legal issue that we would be fighting?

Even if you were to come up with a legal argument you're forgetting something, do you really think have that kind of time to wind even a good issue through the court?
[/quote]


I was asking you if you wanted a lawyer, I think it would draw things out and make the Dr. less willing to work with you.

A power of attorney can help with researching and requesting treatments of the Dr. and generally be an advocate for you. A friend, a relative, an ImmInst volunteer if we find one, could fill in this position.
[/quote]

I agree. You definitely need some kind of advocate whether it be a lawyer, nurse, friend, etc.

Apparently there is something called a "Legal Nurse Advocate",

Not sure where in the US you live, but maybe an inquiry can be made to an office such as this one to see how they could help you out:
[quote]Medical Management Consulting Firm
448 Ignacio Blvd #215
Novato, California 94949
USA

Contact: Ms. Marie Corbin, BSN,RN,LNCC
Tel: (415)234-6540
Fax: (415)234-6042[/quote]

[quote]

#268 k10

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 05:31 AM

No Shannon, there isn't any valid reason to get a lawyer involved, there is nothing a lawyer can do to help.

Didn't your doctor refuse to send you for an MRI, and instead would only offer you a CT scan despite your refusal to have a CT done? I'm sure a lawyer can help you understand and deal with situations like this more appropriately as they come up -- which is why I believe having a lawyer that you can phone up very important so you can get the best possible treatment.

Back to the intravenous Vitamin C...
Have you made any inquiries to naturopathic doctors in your area offering intravenous vitamin therapy? Most ND's are very open to IV therapy and wouldn't be concerned about the legal implications involved in administering it to you. They are well trained and versed in their rights as ND's. A lot of naturopathic doctors are also willing to make house calls. I am currently seeing a naturopathic doctor who does just this.

If all else fails I'm pretty sure you can convince SOMEONE to insert a "PICC line" so you would be able to administer vitamin C yourself. That sounds like a pretty reasonable thing you can accomplish if you put your mind to it. This would also open a lot of new options in regards to treatment as well because you could then research and use other effective cancer treatments intravenously, including hydrogen peroxide!

Edited by k10, 28 December 2008 - 05:44 AM.


#269 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 05:46 AM

No Shannon, there isn't any valid reason to get a lawyer involved, there is nothing a lawyer can do to help.

Didn't your doctor refuse to send you for an MRI, and instead would only offer you a CT scan despite your refusal to have a CT done? I'm sure a lawyer can help you understand and deal with situations like this more appropriately as they come up -- which is why I believe having a lawyer that you can phone up very important so you can get the best possible treatment.

Back to the intravenous Vitamin C...
Have you made any inquiries to naturopathic doctors in your area offering intravenous vitamin therapy? Most ND's are very open to IV therapy and wouldn't be concerned about the legal implications involved in administering it to you. They are well trained and versed in their rights as ND's. A lot of naturopathic doctors are also willing to make house calls. I am currently seeing a naturopathic doctor who does just this.

Kurt didn't have to do an MRI, CT are standard practice and standard care.

As for the questions on IV VC, all of your answers can be found in my Fighting cancer thread. You might want to give that a read. Let me find the link for you.

Edited by thefirstimmortal, 28 December 2008 - 05:47 AM.


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#270 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 05:49 AM

As for the questions on IV VC, all of your answers can be found in my Fighting cancer thread. You might want to give that a read. Let me find the link for you.


http://www.imminst.o...o...c=23038&hl=

I see you have been in thread already.




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