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RevGen Vs. Longevin


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#31 geddarkstorm

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 05:38 PM

I think the boost of energy you feel from an apple is more likely due to the sugar than to the quercetin. :-D

There are many studies showing extension of life span in various organisms by quercetin. But this one SIRT1 stimulation by polyphenols is affected by their stability and metabolism says:

We show that intracellular activity of SIRT1
in HT29 cells is only stimulated by resveratrol and not by
quercetin. This is probably due to rapid metabolism of quercetin because quercetin 3-O-glucuronide did not stimulate
recombinant SIRT1.


Another study claimed blocking of Sirt1 by quercetin-O-glucuronide.

The situation is not exactly clear. Life extension may have been due to other action of quercetin than sirt1. Interaction with resveratrol is also, as you said, not properly studied.


That would make sense, sans the apple skin is where quercetin is and not high amounts of sugar ;) , and it still doesn't change that much greater energy/focus increase from raw quercetin at 500mg.

That was the paper I was referring too. I finally got my hands on it. The inhibition of their recombinant, in a test tube by itself with a fluorophor known to decrease substrate affinity (which is a huge biochemical no no when studying a protein), by the quercetin metabolite was slight. But when you put quercetin in with cells, that same study saw no inhibition of Sirt1. That study actually supports the idea that quercetin does not inhibit Sirt1. And again, their recombinant Sirt1 is flawed and I linked a study that showed that resveratrol too interacts with the fluorophor of that model system, not the Sirt1 directly, so that even the data about resveratrol binding is wrong and unacceptable when using that system. No conclusion is possible with it about the quercetin metabolite, and again, actual cells showed no inhibition (though they tried to pass off the no stimulation as the metabolite stoping quercetin from stimulating).

Hi geddarkstorm,

We also have seen the claim of the blocking of SIT1 by quercetin from an older study.

I figured in the most recent study using "Gene-ship" technology we would have seen an increase in SIRT1 with a resveratrol-quercetin mix, but I was surprised that there seemed to be the strong suggestion of the opposite happening. However it's not clear, and it is unknown that It may have been because of quercetin, or another item in the mixture. Consequently, it appears like marketing changed after this development.

Geddarkstorm, can you take a look and comment on the study regarding SIRT1?
http://www.sciencedi...1df3dccca811ec7


We continue to release resveratrol without quercetin, as the likelihood of inhibition of SIRT1 is a continued possibility.

A


I have seen that study, too. Apparently, the mixture, which is the bases of the longevinex formula, which also includes quercetin, activates the same genes as resveratrol and CR, and more. Again, this suggests quercetin does not inhibit Sirt1. They also had a ton of vitamin D in their mixture, so most of the gene changes that differed from raw resveratrol were probably due to that. Afterall, resveratrol synergizes with vitamin D by upregulating its receptor.

Edited by geddarkstorm, 20 December 2008 - 05:42 PM.


#32 FunkOdyssey

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 06:51 PM

Afterall, resveratrol synergizes with vitamin D by upregulating its receptor.


Do you have a citation for this? This has implications for bone health, stimulation of innate immunity and prevention of autoimmunity, cell proliferation vs. differentiation -- what doesn't resveratrol get its hands into?

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 20 December 2008 - 06:52 PM.


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#33 geddarkstorm

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 06:56 PM

Err, not vitamin D in that paper's mixture, IP6. I thought I remember vitamin D being in there somewhere, but can't get the article again from home.

Edited by geddarkstorm, 20 December 2008 - 07:00 PM.


#34 geddarkstorm

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 07:00 PM

Afterall, resveratrol synergizes with vitamin D by upregulating its receptor.


Do you have a citation for this? This has implications for bone health, stimulation of innate immunity and prevention of autoimmunity, cell proliferation vs. differentiation -- what doesn't resveratrol get its hands into?


Yes indeed ;). Here you go: PMID: 15664452. And there's this showing the same but for actual bone cells: PMID: 16267019.

So, resveratrol and vitamin D go beautifully together, it seems, and may be one reason why resveratrol significantly increases bone density and strength in the mouse studies.

#35 Crepulance

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 09:43 PM

500 micro. I can only assume it doesn't have to do solely with the resveratrol as the purity levels are supposedly the same between the two. Aside from it being psychosomatic, I can only think it's the way the various substances they have in it, res, Vit D, Quercetin and the phytate. Whereas RevGen is just res. I know you can just add those supplements seperately, but for those who don't have a complex regimen, as most on these forums do, it's kinda nice to take one all encompassing pill instead of four. I recently bought some Quercetin, so I'll wait to see if I feel a difference once I take it.


Crep

Hey all, has anyone switched from Longevin to RevGen or vice versa and noticed any difference in the way they feel? [...]. It may be psychosomatic, but it feels like I felt better when taking the Longevin.

Which one of these did you take?


Edited by Michael, 25 July 2009 - 06:29 PM.
Trim quotes


#36 geddarkstorm

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 01:24 AM

500 micro. I can only assume it doesn't have to do solely with the resveratrol as the purity levels are supposedly the same between the two. Aside from it being psychosomatic, I can only think it's the way the various substances they have in it, res, Vit D, Quercetin and the phytate. Whereas RevGen is just res. I know you can just add those supplements seperately, but for those who don't have a complex regimen, as most on these forums do, it's kinda nice to take one all encompassing pill instead of four. I recently bought some Quercetin, so I'll wait to see if I feel a difference once I take it.


Crep


Definitely would love to hear how it goes for you, that way we can see if it is the quercetin or not.

Personally, I'm more of the mind to keep them separate, especially as the science behind it all is constantly in motion. But if we do get a more concrete picture and figure out the best ratios (as the ratio of quercetin to resveratrol or whatever could also be important), then putting it all in one pill for the majority of people might be a smart way to go.

Edited by geddarkstorm, 21 December 2008 - 01:25 AM.


#37 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 01:30 AM

Crep,

...as the purity levels are supposedly the same between the two....

the purity and micron size between of the two are likely not the same, let alone the amount of resveratrol.
If you have the COA of the other guy, let me know and present it here, but otherwise you cannot simply make that blanket statement without documentation. We have documentation of our products purity, do you have the other guys COA to help prove your point?

Geddarkstorm,

...this suggests quercetin does not inhibit Sirt1...


Wouldn't SIRT1 show up in this Gene-Chip test? ... And why did that company state that their product does not activate SIRT1 in a press release as stated here?
http://www.longevine.....e Deleterious

It appears SIRT1 is not the aim of this company anymore, as they appear to be moving away from products that do activate SIRT1. So if this company is correct, the product Crep is taking that makes him feel good... does not activate SIRT1 at all. This simply comes from their own marketing, and not my opinion.

We believe SIRT1 is important, and maintain products to help activate it, other folks (according to their marketing, I am not making this up...) simply do not activate SIRT1, end of story. Now if I am mistaken, please feel free to correct me as I have been incorrect in the past.


And what is the deal between a good price and practicality?
Well folks, as for prices, most folks come to us because of good pricing and quality on res compared with others, since it appears res pricing is quite high. Most folks are considering additions (whether you are conisdering Vivi* or another mixture that has resveratrol) and simply cannot afford it. Besides, it certainly appears that folks here consider amounts of other items such as quercetin in amounts much higher than in any capsules that currently have both.

Most folks that come to us that do take Quercetin have mentioned that they take 500mg and at least 500mg of Trans-Resveratrol, and not the small amount that is currently available in a mixture from different folks. So if you are considering low prices in a difficult time, it is hard not to consider bulk powder or low priced capsules with a COA that proves quality, then buying other vitamins that you need at a lower price.

Quercetin is a good item for folks to consider, however it is priced far lower than resveratrol, and can be bought for less than $6 for a months supply, while high purity resveratrol has not come down that much at all.

So Crep, I suppose being prudent or being practical depends on the amount you are willing to spend on what you believe maybe helpful for you in the long run... a personal choice.

Having said that, how long did you take the Micro500? One day? Two Days?

A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 21 December 2008 - 02:01 AM.


#38 geddarkstorm

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 02:17 AM

Crep,
Geddarkstorm,

...this suggests quercetin does not inhibit Sirt1...


Wouldn't SIRT1 show up in this Gene-Chip test? ... And why did that company state that their product does not activate SIRT1 in a press release as stated here?
http://www.longevine.....e Deleterious

It appears SIRT1 is not the aim of this company anymore, as they appear to be moving away from products that do activate SIRT1. So if this company is correct, the product Crep is taking that makes him feel good... does not activate SIRT1 at all. This simply comes from their own marketing, and not my opinion.

We believe SIRT1 is important, and maintain products to help activate it, other folks (according to their marketing, I am not making this up...) simply do not activate SIRT1, end of story.



Anthony,

I absolutely and completely agree with you that Sirt1 is the key. However, even if they don't specify that resveratrol is activating Sirt1, it is. If you get rid of Sirt1, resveratrol does nothing gene wise, and metabolic wise. If you get rid of Sirt1's ability to deacylate the PGC-1alpha promoter, which oddly turns it on, resveratrol does nothing, again. See PMID: 17112576 and PMID: 18694626. For any of these gene effects to be seen in any of these papers, resveratrol has to be activating Sirt1 and thus PGC-1alpha. Therefore, quercetin must not be inhibiting Sirt1 or stopping resveratrol's ability to upregulate it, or resveratrol would have done nothing in all these combination studies; or so it seems to me.

Also, resveratrol does not effect the levels of the Sirt1 protein, so it would not appear on a gene chip. PGC-1alpha would, which is the metric for Sirt1 being activated by resveratrol, and which then goes on to turn on a myriad of genes, from which we get many of our metabolic benefits assicated with resveratrol. So if PGC-1alpha didn't show up on the gene chips... that would be telling.

The change in marketing isn't because they aren't trying to activate Sirt1, it's because they are ignorant of science - harsh words, but the only thing I can ascribe it to. Or they are treating readers like infants and figuring we don't need to know anything deeper. In papers themselves, they just assume you know from past work.

Edited by Michael, 25 July 2009 - 06:32 PM.
Trim quotes


#39 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 02:52 AM

Thank you geddarkstorm,

It's just what I wanted to hear...

However, let's assume that Resveratrol doesn't activate SIRT1 in another product (Forget the tests you have mentioned for now...lets assume a transition is in the works) what would be the reason to take a capsule that has Quercetin, IP6, Vitamin D in small amounts ?

Is this something you would want in small doses if it didn't somehow activate SIRT1 ?

Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 21 December 2008 - 02:58 AM.


#40 geddarkstorm

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 04:41 AM

Thank you geddarkstorm,

It's just what I wanted to hear...

However, let's assume that Resveratrol doesn't activate SIRT1 in another product (Forget the tests you have mentioned for now...lets assume a transition is in the works) what would be the reason to take a capsule that has Quercetin, IP6, Vitamin D in small amounts ?

Is this something you would want in small doses if it didn't somehow activate SIRT1 ?

Cheers
A


Hm, that's a very good and interesting question. I would think one may want to for the other roles. Quercetin and IP6 are anti-cancer, but also are preventative against tumors (here's a little thing on IP6 that lists a lot of its effects: PMID: 17044765 ). So, since they work by completely different paths, they could synergize to protect the body. Same with vitamin D. Since we've seen in past linked papers earlier in the thread, quercetin also increases bone density, pairing it with vitamin D might be useful. I'm not sure what resveratrol would do in this mix if it was stopped from activating Sirt1. I suppose it would mostly help with anti-oxidant defense, and potentially retain many anti-tumor roles, thus synergizing with quercetin and IP6. I don't know if resveratrol needs to work through Sirt1 to upregulate the vitamin D receptor or not, so there's the potential that it still might upregulate the receptor and thus synergize with vitamin D for bone strength and health.

So, I guess you could say one would want to take a quercetin, IP6, vitamin D combo if they wanted:
1. To increase cancer protection (quercetin, IP6, resveratrol without sirt1?, vitamin D)
2. Boost immune system (quercetin, IP6) and fight viruses and bacteria (quercetin)
3. Increase bone density and health (quercetin, vitamin D, maybe resveratrol if not by Sirt1)
4. Protect the heart and vascular tissue in a non Sirt1-dependent way (quercetin)
5. Do other stuff that vitamin D does (I'm not well versed in vitamin D's roles)

One wouldn't want to take such a combo after a surgery I would think due to IP6 being anti angiogenesis and pro inflammatory (maybe), but in preparation to as the combo should have cellular protective effects.

Of course, having a resveratrol that activates Sirt1 sufficiently would be as good as all of this and far more, probably, and in combo with the rest would likely be even more potent, but can't know for sure without some good experiments to really dig into this issue.

Edited by geddarkstorm, 21 December 2008 - 04:42 AM.


#41 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 04:54 AM

Thats great info,

I would think that you may need decent doses of each item, maybe probably more than 20mg of quercetin and 15mg of IP6 as well as a larger amount of vitamin D.

The great part is that these 3 tend to be cheap and easily affordable by most folks who are interested in larger doses.

Thanks for the rundown geddarkstorm. I think that if you can add some of the other items that are in Vivi* by buying them individually, you can definitely cover your bases regarding AGE without spending alot of money on a monthly basis:

* Muscadine (vitis rotundifolia):
You can buy 120 capsules of Muscadine grape extract(500mg) for $14.99 - (Just search google)

* European black elderberry:
You can buy 15 Lozenges containing Black Edlerberry for $1.43 - (Just search google)

* Daucus Carota Sativus, commonly known as the carrot can be bought at a variety of places...

Very nice
A

#42 TheFountain

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 05:14 AM

This is unrelated to resveratrol but I have Schamberg's disease and it was completely cured by using Quercetin. Anways, I've been using a teaspoon of 98% resveratrol along with added quercetin and luteolin all dissolved in colostrum and I have not felt anything. I started using 3 TBSP per day and reduced it to avoid a reversed U curve-type response. Even at this dose I did not feel any different.



I have been taking resveratrol since 2003 and have not felt anything either. However, I have noticed that I rarely get sick anymore, I sleep 5-6 hours of deep sleep a night (that is all I need) and my friends (without knowing that I take resveratrol or that resveratrol even exists) say that I look like I have "been preserved in formaldihyde? sp". They are ageing and I apparently am not (according to them). Also I don't exercise at all and eat fast food almost every day. My doctor did my blood work recently and said my numbers were excellent - (i.e. cholesterols, sugars, blood pressure, heart rate). He automatically assumed that I was on a strict diet and exercised. I am convinced something is going on even though I havn't felt any different.

What brand resveratrol and in what dose do you take?

Edited by TheFountain, 21 December 2008 - 05:15 AM.


#43 Crepulance

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 09:25 PM

Hey guys sorry for not responding for a bit. Anthony, he gave me his bottle of Micro 500 two months ago, but I've only been taking it for a month and I felt a fairly abrupt change in the way I felt, probably after close to a week. I don't know what COA is. I would think they're both the same since they're both micronized resveratrol at 98-99% purity. Unless there's some conspiracy which would just be speculation. That aside, I honestly want to just be taking the best product, I have zero bias. That's why I've been trying yours for a month, and science aside, I simply don't feel as good as I did when I took Longevi so I'm trying to find out why.

So, I guess you could say one would want to take a quercetin, IP6, vitamin D combo if they wanted:
1. To increase cancer protection (quercetin, IP6, resveratrol without sirt1?, vitamin D)
2. Boost immune system (quercetin, IP6) and fight viruses and bacteria (quercetin)
3. Increase bone density and health (quercetin, vitamin D, maybe resveratrol if not by Sirt1)
4. Protect the heart and vascular tissue in a non Sirt1-dependent way (quercetin)
5. Do other stuff that vitamin D does (I'm not well versed in vitamin D's roles)


Umm, yes, that sounds good to me. That's what Longevi has. As far as it activating Sirt1, they are constantly saying how their smaller dose activates it more effectively than larger dose. You guys can battle the science, just saying what I remember seeing in their ads. And you very well may be right about them dumbing down their advertising to accomodate the masses. Most people don't want to sift through lengthy arduous science that they couldn't even begin to comprehend, they want it explained simply. That's just excellent marketing is what it is, and the only people it upsets are the ones on these boards who actually do understand the science. But these boards comprise a tiny and insignificant amount of people in terms of demographic, so it wouldn't make any sense to cater to the people on these boards. With that said, I simply don't know. I can't argue back on the scientific points, that's why I'd love for a longevi employee to get on here and rebut. There's obviously no perfect answer to the dosage debate otherwise there wouldn't be a debate. So large dose small dose, no one can claim with certainty that they're right.

I personally would like to eventually start taking a gram a day as I heard that's what David Sinclair takes, and I think he's probably in the best seat to making self dosage decisions. However, with that said, I don't want to compromise the clarity and well being I felt while taking the smaller dose Longevin. So if I don't start regaining that feeling of wellness after taking the additional Quercetin and vit D, I'm going to switch back to Longevi and just wait until srt1720 comes out. Again this is a VERY heavy one sided board here pro RevGen because there are no representatives from Longevi and so I HAVE to take in account the bias. Because if there was a longevi voice on here, there could be a lot of clarifications made on things you are all stating as incontroversial.


Crep

Edited by Crepulance, 22 December 2008 - 09:28 PM.


#44 FunkOdyssey

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 10:00 PM

I don't understand why IP6 is included in "Longevin". IP6 is a seriously powerful iron-chelator, to the point that it can induce deficiency when used long-term. To take it daily without periodic bloodwork monitoring iron, ferritin, etc seems a little foolish to me.

I also don't understand why Vitamin D is included, except for the fact that Sardi loves Vitamin D, its super cheap so it does not raise cost of production, and it might improve general mass appeal. There's no acute effect that Vitamin D has when ingested at the same time as resveratrol, the way there may be for quercetin. You may as well add EGCG or pomegranate extract or some other random health-promoting item.

Sardi may have been onto something all along with quercetin, whereas I think the consensus here at ImmInst has oscillated back and forth between negative and positive views of quercetin (more positive recently).

#45 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 23 December 2008 - 12:00 AM

Crep,

You have said alot of things that I disagree with, but since you mention that you are only interested in how you felt when you take a pill.... well here's something else to chew on:

The other thing that the capsules have are "natural dextrins" which may add a glucose boost as well:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextrin

Some dextrines are absorbed as glucose, you may be feeling a "sugar high" if this is one such dextrin. Again, Resveratrol does not produce any high's or low's, its not supposed to. If you want to add other items to your daily regimen that really give you a kick in the pants mentally regardless of health benefits... go over to the nootropics section of this forum and drop resveratrol all together:

http://www.imminst.o...p?showforum=169

As far as it activating Sirt1, they are constantly saying how their smaller dose activates it more effectively than larger dose. You guys can battle the science, just saying what I remember seeing in their ads. And you very well may be right about them dumbing down their advertising to accomodate the masses. Most people don't want to sift through lengthy arduous science that they couldn't even begin to comprehend, they want it explained simply. That's just excellent marketing is what it is, and the only people it upsets are the ones on these boards who actually do understand the science. But these boards comprise a tiny and insignificant amount of people in terms of demographic, so it wouldn't make any sense to cater to the people on these boards.


Being contrarian on SIRT1 and stating that the product you like does not activate SIRT1 is not the same as "dumbing down their advertising to accommodate the masses". I think geddarkstorm has nailed alot of facts that would serve to elighten folks about certain marketing techniques that are employed in the supplement and many, many other types of businesses.

As far as catering to people on these boards... well I can only speak for our company now: I have to say that I have learned alot by remaining here on these boards and being available here. It has allowed scientists, venture capitalists, and some pretty amazing people to call me up and suggest new ingredients, avenues, and considerations to help out more individuals than our company could have considered without them.

All I can say is that folks on this board don't believe much of the marketing and hype when it comes to many supplements or products, and if I am taking the road less traveled by trying to cater to folks that aren't easily influenced by marketing, and influenced more by what they read in science journals or studies... then that is solely my choice and I will continue do it.


So coming back to you Crep, if all you require is a resveratrol capsule that will make you feel "good" almost immediately... then maybe I have a new product to consider. If I do pull one out of my hat, then it will certainly be because of your posts Crep...

Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 23 December 2008 - 12:01 AM.


#46 fatboy

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Posted 23 December 2008 - 12:29 AM

All I can say is that folks on this board don't believe much of the marketing and hype when it comes to many supplements or products, and if I am taking the road less traveled by trying to cater to folks that aren't easily influenced by marketing, and influenced more by what they read in science journals or studies... then that is solely my choice and I will continue do it.


That's why I buy from you. Well that ... and the guaranteed quality w/ COAs ... and the price ... and what you are doing for TFI.

P.S. I'm happy to see that your site appears to indicate that you are planning to continue your R300 50% capsules. Yes? My dogs don't need more than that for health maintenance.

#47 Ringostarr

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Posted 23 December 2008 - 05:40 AM

What do we really know about srt1720. What do we know about super sirt1 activation. Very little. I'll tell you guys what I'm most excited about. Its the tween 80 + resveratrol. First, it is resveratrol, a powerful but organic substance - not a lab molecule on steroids. Next, the tween 80 dramatically helps with oral bioavailability. Heck - there might not even be a need for srt1720. Of course GSK is going to say there is a need because they really cant patent resveratol + tween 80 - it is too obvious of a combination. They need to find a problem with resveratrol to make money. Also, resveratrol does not have to be introduced into the body by the GI. There are numerous ways to introduce it into the blood that circumvent any bioavailability issues. I guess my point is that it is WAY to early to be shooting holes in natural resveratrol.

#48 Crepulance

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Posted 23 December 2008 - 08:38 AM

Crep,

You have said alot of things that I disagree with, but since you mention that you are only interested in how you felt when you take a pill.... well here's something else to chew on:

The other thing that the capsules have are "natural dextrins" which may add a glucose boost as well:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextrin

Some dextrines are absorbed as glucose, you may be feeling a "sugar high" if this is one such dextrin. Again, Resveratrol does not produce any high's or low's, its not supposed to. If you want to add other items to your daily regimen that really give you a kick in the pants mentally regardless of health benefits... go over to the nootropics section of this forum and drop resveratrol all together:

http://www.imminst.o...p?showforum=169

As far as it activating Sirt1, they are constantly saying how their smaller dose activates it more effectively than larger dose. You guys can battle the science, just saying what I remember seeing in their ads. And you very well may be right about them dumbing down their advertising to accomodate the masses. Most people don't want to sift through lengthy arduous science that they couldn't even begin to comprehend, they want it explained simply. That's just excellent marketing is what it is, and the only people it upsets are the ones on these boards who actually do understand the science. But these boards comprise a tiny and insignificant amount of people in terms of demographic, so it wouldn't make any sense to cater to the people on these boards.


Being contrarian on SIRT1 and stating that the product you like does not activate SIRT1 is not the same as "dumbing down their advertising to accommodate the masses". I think geddarkstorm has nailed alot of facts that would serve to elighten folks about certain marketing techniques that are employed in the supplement and many, many other types of businesses.

As far as catering to people on these boards... well I can only speak for our company now: I have to say that I have learned alot by remaining here on these boards and being available here. It has allowed scientists, venture capitalists, and some pretty amazing people to call me up and suggest new ingredients, avenues, and considerations to help out more individuals than our company could have considered without them.

All I can say is that folks on this board don't believe much of the marketing and hype when it comes to many supplements or products, and if I am taking the road less traveled by trying to cater to folks that aren't easily influenced by marketing, and influenced more by what they read in science journals or studies... then that is solely my choice and I will continue do it.


So coming back to you Crep, if all you require is a resveratrol capsule that will make you feel "good" almost immediately... then maybe I have a new product to consider. If I do pull one out of my hat, then it will certainly be because of your posts Crep...

Cheers
A


Hey A,

I wasn't criticizing you for being on here, if anything I was applauding you. I know you get ideas from here, it's a good thing. I'm the one responsible for you having your Nitro caps. If you'll recall a while back I kept pushing you on it, and you said that the process was useless, and I said it's not useless if it makes the public more comfortable, it's good for marketing, and you said you'd look into it and if you ever started using Nitro caps, it would be because of me. Allow me to take my bow :) Thank you thank you, you're a lovely audience. Anyway, back to the point :) The dumbing down comment wasn't a response to what you said, someone else, maybe gedark said something about them dumbing down their info.

As far as the dextrin, it is most definitely not the case. It is not some sugar rush jolt of energy, it is an elegant consistent clarity and sharpness that caries out throughout the ENTIRE day and into the following morning, and was only achieved after taking the product for a couple months. A sugar pill would exhibit none of those properties, nor would it take two months before I felt it. I can say with most certainty it is not the dextrin.


Crep

#49 Crepulance

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Posted 23 December 2008 - 08:40 AM

And I do believe the dosage to be working, as my eyesight has improved by fifty percent. Fairly remarkable. And I too now am extremely resistant to very cold weather, used to be the complete opposite. Something I thought I was alone on until I saw that other poster post the same effect. So I'm obviously not just wanting a feel good pill.

Crep

Crep,

You have said alot of things that I disagree with, but since you mention that you are only interested in how you felt when you take a pill.... well here's something else to chew on:

The other thing that the capsules have are "natural dextrins" which may add a glucose boost as well:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextrin

Some dextrines are absorbed as glucose, you may be feeling a "sugar high" if this is one such dextrin. Again, Resveratrol does not produce any high's or low's, its not supposed to. If you want to add other items to your daily regimen that really give you a kick in the pants mentally regardless of health benefits... go over to the nootropics section of this forum and drop resveratrol all together:

http://www.imminst.o...p?showforum=169

As far as it activating Sirt1, they are constantly saying how their smaller dose activates it more effectively than larger dose. You guys can battle the science, just saying what I remember seeing in their ads. And you very well may be right about them dumbing down their advertising to accomodate the masses. Most people don't want to sift through lengthy arduous science that they couldn't even begin to comprehend, they want it explained simply. That's just excellent marketing is what it is, and the only people it upsets are the ones on these boards who actually do understand the science. But these boards comprise a tiny and insignificant amount of people in terms of demographic, so it wouldn't make any sense to cater to the people on these boards.


Being contrarian on SIRT1 and stating that the product you like does not activate SIRT1 is not the same as "dumbing down their advertising to accommodate the masses". I think geddarkstorm has nailed alot of facts that would serve to elighten folks about certain marketing techniques that are employed in the supplement and many, many other types of businesses.

As far as catering to people on these boards... well I can only speak for our company now: I have to say that I have learned alot by remaining here on these boards and being available here. It has allowed scientists, venture capitalists, and some pretty amazing people to call me up and suggest new ingredients, avenues, and considerations to help out more individuals than our company could have considered without them.

All I can say is that folks on this board don't believe much of the marketing and hype when it comes to many supplements or products, and if I am taking the road less traveled by trying to cater to folks that aren't easily influenced by marketing, and influenced more by what they read in science journals or studies... then that is solely my choice and I will continue do it.


So coming back to you Crep, if all you require is a resveratrol capsule that will make you feel "good" almost immediately... then maybe I have a new product to consider. If I do pull one out of my hat, then it will certainly be because of your posts Crep...

Cheers
A


Hey A,

I wasn't criticizing you for being on here, if anything I was applauding you. I know you get ideas from here, it's a good thing. I'm the one responsible for you having your Nitro caps. If you'll recall a while back I kept pushing you on it, and you said that the process was useless, and I said it's not useless if it makes the public more comfortable, it's good for marketing, and you said you'd look into it and if you ever started using Nitro caps, it would be because of me. Allow me to take my bow :) Thank you thank you, you're a lovely audience. Anyway, back to the point :) The dumbing down comment wasn't a response to what you said, someone else, maybe gedark said something about them dumbing down their info.

As far as the dextrin, it is most definitely not the case. It is not some sugar rush jolt of energy, it is an elegant consistent clarity and sharpness that caries out throughout the ENTIRE day and into the following morning, and was only achieved after taking the product for a couple months. A sugar pill would exhibit none of those properties, nor would it take two months before I felt it. I can say with most certainty it is not the dextrin.


Crep



#50 Crepulance

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Posted 23 December 2008 - 08:46 AM

Ay Ring, I'm with you, partially. First of all, it has sinclair behind it so I think the science will be good. Tests will prove wether or not the efficacy results are comparable to tween micro, and we'll all be able to make our decision on that then. But I'm really curious about the fact that it will make you not gain weight! That's HUGE! I would be buying it just for that if that's all it did. And we know for a fact that no res supplement, tween or not, can produce those results.


Crep

What do we really know about srt1720. What do we know about super sirt1 activation. Very little. I'll tell you guys what I'm most excited about. Its the tween 80 + resveratrol. First, it is resveratrol, a powerful but organic substance - not a lab molecule on steroids. Next, the tween 80 dramatically helps with oral bioavailability. Heck - there might not even be a need for srt1720. Of course GSK is going to say there is a need because they really cant patent resveratol + tween 80 - it is too obvious of a combination. They need to find a problem with resveratrol to make money. Also, resveratrol does not have to be introduced into the body by the GI. There are numerous ways to introduce it into the blood that circumvent any bioavailability issues. I guess my point is that it is WAY to early to be shooting holes in natural resveratrol.

rea

#51 Crepulance

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Posted 23 December 2008 - 08:49 AM

Does ANYONE know anyone from Longevin, that can cajole them to coming on these boards. Kind of hard to have a RevGen Vs. Longevin conversation when only RevGen is present. Not to mention the giant RevGen banner that's on top of every page at all times :) Trying to fox news it here, a little fair and balance. Anthony, if you don't mind me asking, how long has RevGen been in business, and how much did you wind up investing to get it started?


Crep

#52 Crepulance

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Posted 23 December 2008 - 08:52 AM

PS Anthony, as per nootropics, I don't want to go to that world :) That's one rabbit hole I don't want to fall down into.



Crep

#53 hmm

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Posted 23 December 2008 - 05:58 PM

Does ANYONE know anyone from Longevin, that can cajole them to coming on these boards. Kind of hard to have a RevGen Vs. Longevin conversation when only RevGen is present. Not to mention the giant RevGen banner that's on top of every page at all times :) Trying to fox news it here, a little fair and balance. Anthony, if you don't mind me asking, how long has RevGen been in business, and how much did you wind up investing to get it started?
Crep

(LOL) Crep, just write a note to Bill Sardi and explain to him that we need him to come back to this forum. Then take a breath, close your eyes, let yourself take a little nap, and when Bill wakes up he will see your note and know exactly what he needs to do...

#54 Crepulance

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Posted 24 December 2008 - 03:44 AM

Hey Hmm, did just that, see the new post in the forums, it has our correspondence.

Crep

Does ANYONE know anyone from Longevin, that can cajole them to coming on these boards. Kind of hard to have a RevGen Vs. Longevin conversation when only RevGen is present. Not to mention the giant RevGen banner that's on top of every page at all times :) Trying to fox news it here, a little fair and balance. Anthony, if you don't mind me asking, how long has RevGen been in business, and how much did you wind up investing to get it started?
Crep

(LOL) Crep, just write a note to Bill Sardi and explain to him that we need him to come back to this forum. Then take a breath, close your eyes, let yourself take a little nap, and when Bill wakes up he will see your note and know exactly what he needs to do...



#55 Crepulance

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Posted 24 December 2008 - 03:46 AM

Oh wait, I just re-read your post. Were you implying that I was Bill Sardis? Or am I reading too much into that? You said I should take a nap, and when Bill wakes up? That was confusing.


Crep

Hey Hmm, did just that, see the new post in the forums, it has our correspondence.

Crep

Does ANYONE know anyone from Longevin, that can cajole them to coming on these boards. Kind of hard to have a RevGen Vs. Longevin conversation when only RevGen is present. Not to mention the giant RevGen banner that's on top of every page at all times :) Trying to fox news it here, a little fair and balance. Anthony, if you don't mind me asking, how long has RevGen been in business, and how much did you wind up investing to get it started?
Crep

(LOL) Crep, just write a note to Bill Sardi and explain to him that we need him to come back to this forum. Then take a breath, close your eyes, let yourself take a little nap, and when Bill wakes up he will see your note and know exactly what he needs to do...



#56 hmm

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Posted 24 December 2008 - 05:12 AM

Oh wait, I just re-read your post. Were you implying that I was Bill Sardis? Or am I reading too much into that? You said I should take a nap, and when Bill wakes up? That was confusing.


Crep

Crep, Bill, what does it matter? Why split hairs? Everybody should have their fair say! I've started adding some of this liquid quercetin to my rsv/gin/eggnog and I gotta say that quercetin stuff packs an extra punch to the bowels (that's after 3 days trying the new mixture). But so far I'm not noticing any extra benefits from it. Maybe I'm not getting enough quercetin in there -- it says that 2 eyedroppers' worth is 134 mg. Maybe I need to find some quercetin powder (though my trusty vendor iHerb doesn't offer powdered quercetin) and stick 1/2 a gram into the rsv cocktail, bowels permitting.

I don't know whether to go further with the quercetin and throw in some IP6 into the mixture or back off and just stick with 2 grams of rsv mixed with gin and eggnog...

#57 Crepulance

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Posted 26 December 2008 - 02:55 AM

Anthony, since there seems to be good science, would you consider incorporating quercetin into your res supplements in the future for convenience's sake to the consumer?


Crep



Oh wait, I just re-read your post. Were you implying that I was Bill Sardis? Or am I reading too much into that? You said I should take a nap, and when Bill wakes up? That was confusing.


Crep

Crep, Bill, what does it matter? Why split hairs? Everybody should have their fair say! I've started adding some of this liquid quercetin to my rsv/gin/eggnog and I gotta say that quercetin stuff packs an extra punch to the bowels (that's after 3 days trying the new mixture). But so far I'm not noticing any extra benefits from it. Maybe I'm not getting enough quercetin in there -- it says that 2 eyedroppers' worth is 134 mg. Maybe I need to find some quercetin powder (though my trusty vendor iHerb doesn't offer powdered quercetin) and stick 1/2 a gram into the rsv cocktail, bowels permitting.

I don't know whether to go further with the quercetin and throw in some IP6 into the mixture or back off and just stick with 2 grams of rsv mixed with gin and eggnog...



#58 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 26 December 2008 - 02:42 PM

would you consider incorporating quercetin into your res supplements in the future for convenience's sake to the consumer?


Crep


Crep,

I suppose I need to cut-paste some of my answers since it appears you do not read all of my posts.
I do not have definitive proof regarding SIRT1 inhibition regarding quercetin, so I will not be adding quercetin.

On the other side of the coin, we have many folks that do not want us to add anything because they have a strict regimen already by a nutritionist or doctor. For healthy folks, this may sound quite silly, but these folks are not as healthy as most of us here on the board and take any change to their dietary intake pretty seriously.

Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 26 December 2008 - 02:45 PM.


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#59 Crepulance

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 12:48 PM

Fair enough.

Crep

would you consider incorporating quercetin into your res supplements in the future for convenience's sake to the consumer?


Crep


Crep,

I suppose I need to cut-paste some of my answers since it appears you do not read all of my posts.
I do not have definitive proof regarding SIRT1 inhibition regarding quercetin, so I will not be adding quercetin.

On the other side of the coin, we have many folks that do not want us to add anything because they have a strict regimen already by a nutritionist or doctor. For healthy folks, this may sound quite silly, but these folks are not as healthy as most of us here on the board and take any change to their dietary intake pretty seriously.

Cheers
A



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