49 replies to this topic

[rwac]

Also..I don't think a transhumanist dating site would work well because there is much too broad a number of ethical, political and scientific stances in various semi-related fields, interests and technologies to ever create the type of community that is for successful online dating. Thoughts?

Huh ? All you need is someone to be open to transhumanist ideas.

I think a transhumanist dating site wont work because there aren't enough women in the community.
I wonder, can someone figure out the Male:Female ratio on ImmInst ?

Also, the transhumanist community might be too small. How large is it ?

Edited by rwac, 03 March 2009 - 05:33 AM.

[abolitionist]

transhumanism is all about the interim transition between homo sapien and posthuman. In light of this, you should be a little more flexible; the point is to acknowledge that you are not yet a transformed being and that the paradigms of humanity have yet to shift. As such compromise is part of your life, and you need to learn to assess your mate's worth by the content of their character instead of judging them by their ideologies; people of many different types can arrive at a common ideology through many different pathways. It's the pathway that will tell you more about their character (and likelihood of accepting the meme) than their current beliefs.

the core is what's important there is alot up for debate about the means

but most people are just sleep walkers and repeat whatever society tells them - or whatever they can use to rationalize their inherent drives

I can't respect people who don't understand the human condition and they only way to address it - and you can't have a relationship with someone you don't respect

[abolitionist]

if they are intelligent enough they will already have found Transhumanism

Really? Is this the opinion you have of all people, or just women?

You've got to give more women a decent chance and be careful about being judgemental. I've been with plenty of girls who have had zero-interest in transhumanism, if you don't come off looking like a creep or a total cyber-dink (I'm assuming you don't), you can generally get a few things across that you both agree on...then go from there. I usually just tie in my diet and supplement regime to how I want to be really healthy and live a long life...which everyone can relate to, AFAIK. From there I bring up biogerontology, possibly imminst not necessarily in the same discussion of course, all the interesting and amazing discoveries going on, send them a link about everyone's favourite bearded SENS friend you mentioned in previous discussion ("I sat and talked with that guy over coffee at an aging symposium a few years ago, you know"*). Most girls don't mind their guys at least bit geeky, or even prefer them that way. All in the type of girl, of course. I refer to myself as a nerd in positive light, it often breaks the ice and gives you some license to talk about nerdy things. SOME license Bring up an Alcor membership another time imo. All of this is assuming she's biting, yeah? I think the key is not appearing dogmatic.

This post is long, I'll stop now - sorry if I missed it, but where are you meeting women now?

*actual mitkat quote

I'm tired of playing to stupid women who cling to norms to feel secure, how can you respect that?

Yes, anyone who doesn't understand that we need to use science to eliminate aging and suffering is fucking stupid - and not worth talking to - unless it's to accomplish something. Religious dogmatics and ignorant people aren't dating material.

Seriously, would you want to be in a long term relationship with someone that stupid?

I understand that we need to reach out and wake people up, but not to find dates.

I want someone intelligent enough to figure it out on their own as I did.

Edited by abolitionist, 03 March 2009 - 05:49 AM.

[mitkat]

Seriously, would you want to be in a long term relationship with someone that stupid?

Of course not, I don't want to be in a relationship with someone of lesser intelligence. It depends of how vast one's definition of stupid is in this case, as everyone can be thick now and again and most certainly in different departments...but you're talking about people who don't agree with concept of transhumanism, which is not that well-defined in the public eye. So it would be important to determine if she doesn't agree with the concepts only because she's put it together from the very mainstream media and anywhere else she's heard information - could be positive or negative, sensationalist tabloid exposes, jerry springer cryonic shockumentaries, etc. The chances of finding a pre-programmed girl to be just like a female you are slim.

I understand that we need to reach out and wake people up, but not to find dates.

Not sure I understand this sentence, aren't you trying to get a date?

My point here is you're coming across fairly dogmatic, just as the religious types you have so many problems with. You're implying a sense of self-superiority you hold in being a transhumanist over other people who are unenlightened and 'ignorant'. Do you considered that to be attractive to a woman?

[abolitionist]

Seriously, would you want to be in a long term relationship with someone that stupid?

Of course not, I don't want to be in a relationship with someone of lesser intelligence. It depends of how vast one's definition of stupid is in this case, as everyone can be thick now and again and most certainly in different departments...but you're talking about people who don't agree with concept of transhumanism, which is not that well-defined in the public eye. So it would be important to determine if she doesn't agree with the concepts only because she's put it together from the very mainstream media and anywhere else she's heard information - could be positive or negative, sensationalist tabloid exposes, jerry springer cryonic shockumentaries, etc. The chances of finding a pre-programmed girl to be just like a female you are slim.

I understand that we need to reach out and wake people up, but not to find dates.

Not sure I understand this sentence, aren't you trying to get a date?

My point here is you're coming across fairly dogmatic, just as the religious types you have so many problems with. You're implying a sense of self-superiority you hold in being a transhumanist over other people who are unenlightened and 'ignorant'. Do you considered that to be attractive to a woman?

Ok, I think I see where you're coming from - I wouldn't care if they are part of the Transhumanist mainstream.

The only requirement is the realization that we need to use science to end suffering and aging, and to extend compassion to animals as well.

Vegan is a plus but vegetarian is ok.

Yeah I definately wouldn't want a female version of myself - how weird would that be!

Edited by abolitionist, 03 March 2009 - 06:47 AM.

[mitkat]

Also..I don't think a transhumanist dating site would work well because there is much too broad a number of ethical, political and scientific stances in various semi-related fields, interests and technologies to ever create the type of community that is for successful online dating. Thoughts?

Huh ? All you need is someone to be open to transhumanist ideas.

I think a transhumanist dating site wont work because there aren't enough women in the community.
I wonder, can someone figure out the Male:Female ratio on ImmInst ?

Also, the transhumanist community might be too small. How large is it ?

The WTA gives member stats by country on it's site, as os March 3rd 2009, there are 5557 members worldwide. Not bad at all...if you include all potentially associated groups, I'm sure it would be quite larger (but still in the thousands, I could be wrong), but then it's just that - associated groups. There's not necessarily anything to string together a CRon dieter to a AI researcher ideologically anymore than there is romantically. Obviously we interact with people like that here on imminst and no one bats an eyelash but there are people who pick and choose various beliefs to no end and won't entertain what some would consider 'the whole packge'. Libertarian singulatarians and nanosocialist technoprimitivist? There'd be more of them there than on any other dating site, that's for sure. I think the possibility for extremes in the community are large, which would make it very interesting, however would garner no greater results all in all than most other respectable dating sites. Hmm. I don't think it would fail, I just don't see it as hugely successful.

[mitkat]

Seriously, would you want to be in a long term relationship with someone that stupid?

Of course not, I don't want to be in a relationship with someone of lesser intelligence. It depends of how vast one's definition of stupid is in this case, as everyone can be thick now and again and most certainly in different departments...but you're talking about people who don't agree with concept of transhumanism, which is not that well-defined in the public eye. So it would be important to determine if she doesn't agree with the concepts only because she's put it together from the very mainstream media and anywhere else she's heard information - could be positive or negative, sensationalist tabloid exposes, jerry springer cryonic shockumentaries, etc. The chances of finding a pre-programmed girl to be just like a female you are slim.

I understand that we need to reach out and wake people up, but not to find dates.

Not sure I understand this sentence, aren't you trying to get a date?

My point here is you're coming across fairly dogmatic, just as the religious types you have so many problems with. You're implying a sense of self-superiority you hold in being a transhumanist over other people who are unenlightened and 'ignorant'. Do you considered that to be attractive to a woman?

Ok, I think I see where you're coming from - I wouldn't care if they are part of the Transhumanist mainstream.

The only requirement is the realization that we need to use science to end suffering and aging, and to extend compassion to animals as well.

Vegan is a plus but vegetarian is ok.

Yeah I definately wouldn't want a female version of myself - how weird would that be!

I'm feeling you on those points. Where are you looking for ladies currently?

[platypus]

Seriously, would you want to be in a long term relationship with someone that stupid?

Of course not, I don't want to be in a relationship with someone of lesser intelligence.

If you mean lesser than your intelligence that kind of an attitude is detrimental if you're enough above the average intelligence. If you then combine that with demands on looks, values, lifestyle and sexuality, you're approaching a situation where your available dating-pool is the size zero, so be careful.

[mitkat]

Seriously, would you want to be in a long term relationship with someone that stupid?

Of course not, I don't want to be in a relationship with someone of lesser intelligence.

If you mean lesser than your intelligence that kind of an attitude is detrimental if you're enough above the average intelligence.

You have to be aware of all the different types of intelligence in a person, recognising and appreciating all of them. That comes down to what one considers 'intelligence' to be (not looking to start a philosophical conversation so I hope that makes sense ) I'm sure we all know ignorant university graduates and incredibly practical high school dropouts, at least I do, and if one was looking for a very specific kind of intelligence, then good luck.

I could of said "in and around the same general intelligence as myself"...I understand your point, and it's a good one. If I was a certified genius then I'd have trouble if I was trying to find a mate based solely on a high-level intelligence. Thankfully, this genius chooses based on many factors.

If you then combine that with demands on looks, values, lifestyle and sexuality, you're approaching a situation where your available dating-pool is the size zero, so be careful.

One would have to be pretty 'exclusive' (in their own mind) to reach this point, probably guilty of taking themselves way too seriously amongst other negative factors.

[EmbraceUnity]

Seriously, would you want to be in a long term relationship with someone that stupid?

Of course not, I don't want to be in a relationship with someone of lesser intelligence.

If you mean lesser than your intelligence that kind of an attitude is detrimental if you're enough above the average intelligence.

You have to be aware of all the different types of intelligence in a person, recognising and appreciating all of them. That comes down to what one considers 'intelligence' to be (not looking to start a philosophical conversation so I hope that makes sense ) I'm sure we all know ignorant university graduates and incredibly practical high school dropouts, at least I do, and if one was looking for a very specific kind of intelligence, then good luck.

I could of said "in and around the same general intelligence as myself"...I understand your point, and it's a good one. If I was a certified genius then I'd have trouble if I was trying to find a mate based solely on a high-level intelligence. Thankfully, this genius chooses based on many factors.

If you then combine that with demands on looks, values, lifestyle and sexuality, you're approaching a situation where your available dating-pool is the size zero, so be careful.

One would have to be pretty 'exclusive' (in their own mind) to reach this point, probably guilty of taking themselves way too seriously amongst other negative factors.

Haha, this thread was really going down the tubes at first. At least it is getting more interesting.

For relationships I don't care about intelligence as much as thoughtfulness in a broad sense. Someone who is attentive, considerate, and philosophical, but not overly dramatic. You know... boring. There is an old chinese insult, "may you live in interesting times." That could just as easily be modified to "may you live with interesting women."

I don't care if the person is a transhumanist or above average intelligence as long as they are a fundamentally good person and willing to entertain my crazy ideas.... if they want to offer me rebuttals that is fine, as long as they don't mind counterarguments.

Damn... I'm such a nerd

Edited by progressive, 03 March 2009 - 05:36 PM.

[RighteousReason]

And you don't have to be a transhumanist to be intelligent and with good personality.

yes you do, everyone else is fucking stupid and annoying (just being honest)

Being a transhumanist doesn't change that. All you will get are fucking stupid and annoying transhumanists.

Edited by advancdaltruist, 03 March 2009 - 05:47 PM.

[FunkOdyssey]

In my opinion, any girl you meet that is already an athiest could probably warm up to transhumanism over time. If you use that as your criteria, you have a much wider pool of women to choose from, and they will have higher IQ's than normal (by statistical averages) and be rational thinkers, both important prerequisites. This was my strategy: I found and married an athiest that has warmed up to transhumanism, cryonics, etc over the course of our relationship.

Your options among pre-existing transhumanists, and the likelihood of finding one compatible with you in all the usual ways required for successful relationships will be close to nil.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 03 March 2009 - 06:02 PM.

[mitkat]

Haha, this thread was really going down the tubes at first. At least it is getting more interesting.

For relationships I don't care about intelligence as much as thoughtfulness in a broad sense. Someone who is attentive, considerate, and philosophical, but not overly dramatic. You know... boring. There is an old chinese insult, "may you live in interesting times." That could just as easily be modified to "may you live with interesting women."

I don't care if the person is a transhumanist or above average intelligence as long as they are a fundamentally good person and willing to entertain my crazy ideas.... if they want to offer me rebuttals that is fine, as long as they don't mind counterarguments.

Damn... I'm such a nerd

It is a funny thread, I think it's getting pretty interesting also.

I agree with you Progressive, intelligence isn't what makes or breaks someone in my books (as I eluded to in my earlier posts) but it is a factor, as mannequins are attractive they only have certain things offer. In my books, a person who is fundamentally good (and let's say for the sake of argument not as intelligent as you) would entertain ideas about transhumanism and would then agree with at least some of the memes involved in the larger body of ideas as a 'good thing' or at least not a total negative for life on earth. Back on tha' dating tip, a microcosm of this exchange could be undertaken on a first date, coffee, whatever through simple, pleasant conversation

[EmbraceUnity]

It is a funny thread, I think it's getting pretty interesting also.

I agree with you Progressive, intelligence isn't what makes or breaks someone in my books (as I eluded to in my earlier posts) but it is a factor, as mannequins are attractive they only have certain things offer. In my books, a person who is fundamentally good (and let's say for the sake of argument not as intelligent as you) would entertain ideas about transhumanism and would then agree with at least some of the memes involved in the larger body of ideas as a 'good thing' or at least not a total negative for life on earth. Back on tha' dating tip, a microcosm of this exchange could be undertaken on a first date, coffee, whatever through simple, pleasant conversation

Yes, but then you get into the whole "what is a transhumanist" argument. Most people don't want to ban fake limbs and like that technology improves life, but they might shudder at talk of brain chips... at least until they become more common. Then they will want the best one. Especially since the Enlightenment most of us have been transhumanist to varying degrees. I think a transhumanist is just someone who can see those general trends and tries to ensure that these trends positively impact the (post)human condition.

I have grown to appreciate the mainstream by taking a long term view, and think most people have the right motivations. Granted, our reasoning abilities aren't always the best. But the qualities I hope for in a girl are not the same as the qualities I hope for in a bureaucrat or engineer. Common sense, while not so common, should be enough. People of average intelligence are fully capable of understanding how to balance their budgets and so forth. It isn't rocket science. So I would qualify that my conception of "thoughtfulness" includes common sense. When I said "boring," I was certainly trying to elude to people who are unlikely to rush out and do foolish things. That quality isn't strongly correlated with raw intelligence.

[Shannon Vyff]

Really at times I wish that the husbands I've brought to cryonics and transhumanism would have been into to it on their own, so I empathize with that. At the same time however, I find it laudable to bring more people into the movement. If whom you are dating is intelligent, the crux of how open minded or intelligent they are is how the extreme life extension conversation goes I do that while I'm dating, and gauge how receptive the man is. Match.com and others are a great place to search by education level, religion, age and looks. I'm pretty quick about sizing up a date in an initial meeting. I can tell very rapidly whether on not the man would be compatible (not just on looks, but on intelligence, drive, temperament, long term outlooks and open mindedness). AA, if you have millions then why aren't you a lifetime member also, why do you assume that you'll only find women who will be dependent on you--there are many independent women who do not need you at all, they are looking for love and compatibility. That said, I'm fortunate that I've had an income several times higher than any husband I've had, my current husband hopes to some day make more and I like his ambition--but I don't base my love on what he makes.
gauge

[abolitionist]

yeah, I guess the reality is that it will be necessary to find someone who values rational thinking and science - and then work on them 8-)

I just don't like the idea of trying to find a fixer upper - but that's life in the big city right now.

It makes me feel lonely to think that they don't have the same core values and thoughts about the general way to solve our problems.

Someday it won't be this way.

Edited by abolitionist, 03 March 2009 - 10:47 PM.

[lunarsolarpower]

Go to a meditation class and you'll find more open minded women than you can shake a stick at. I teach meditation and most of the people who attend are very intelligent, disciplined, and open minded.

What are the usual requirements for going into that line of work? Mainly a beard and sandals or should one have also traveled widely in the Orient? It really sounds like a chill gig to me.

[edward]

More people are open life extension, SENS and transhumanism than you think. The fundementals behind these are really basic human desires. My suggestion and what worked for me is dont worry about converting people and definitely don't go there for a good while. I dated a lot before I got married (probably a little too much... long term low dose dopaminergics including deprenyl really boosts the err drive) and only some of the women I dated knew anything more than I was an extreme health nut with some unorthodox ideas and a very liberal position on many things, I also went through a rather wild period when I found that the most liberal open minded people are ones with rather liberal views on drug use, look not for the addicts but for the people who have experimented and who say they see nothing wrong with the legalization of x, y or z.

Anyways I always first looked for smart girls who were open minded (be wary of the crazy open minded ones), intelligent <--- this is the key, talk about ideas, philosophies ask them what they read, ask about religion, Funks idea about finding an atheist is a good one, either an atheist agnostic or someone with a less than mainstream religion, also I found people from different countries and cultures are much more open minded. My wife was raised a Buddhist but is not real big on it anymore as anything other than as a philosophy and a general framework for living. She is very intelligence with multiple degrees so the ideas of extending human life span to extreme lengths, consciousness transferred out of an aging body or blended with machines are very easily grasped at first as intellectual concepts and then later internalized as possibilities.

My discussion of such topics with her began with the health angle I gradually let her into my extreme "healthy" lifestyle, then life extension, then extreme life extension and finally augmented forms of life, life technologically supported beyond the human body limitations etc, etc. and everything just evolved naturally. If you find an intelligent woman who you click with and you can share things with then you should have no problem with sharing everything with only you have to find the right one...until then slowly let the walls down, test the waters with strategically placed comments and questions.... Seriously if you start talking SENS or even life extension or anything beyond "health" on a first date, second or even the first month you will never get past the first date or first month. I always treated dating as a great adventure with the off chance of meeting a truly compatible person but the key for me was to enjoy the adventure and not get obsessed with finding that person. So I had a good long adventure and happened to stumble on the perfect compatible person who I married.

Ok, as always I have RAMBLED on way to long, maybe someone with the patience will read this. I am debating whether to delete it as I am feeling this is TMI but what the heck

[StrangeAeons]

I still feel you are attaching way too much value to the meme and not enough to people as a whole. Why is it the ultimate necessity in a mate that her ideologies mirror your own? I've known many couples who could easily transcend these issues, with far more divergent ideologies. Tell me exactly how your mate being a transhumanist or not being a transhumanist will affect the basic aspects of romantic attraction? If you can convince yourself to drop this near-narcissistic, xenophobic notion that anybody who does not share your beliefs has a problem, you might find yourself gaining more headway. It's really ironic that you should be so close minded about this pursuit.

Oh, and FunkO, to reiterate something I've felt like I had to repeat over and over, atheism is not the only intelligent, progressive ideology out there. I really don't understand why agnostics get swept under the rug; I've had more than enough people say "make up your mind", not really understanding that the doctrine is about accepting that which we do not know. Yes, this is an entirely separate, drawn out discussion, but it really gets my goat that atheism is perceived sort of as the "ultimate" non-theist secular stance. Of course you get flippant people like the girl I once dated who claimed she was a "agnsotic theist", but I really was into her more because she was drop dead gorgeous...

[abolitionist]

I still feel you are attaching way too much value to the meme and not enough to people as a whole. Why is it the ultimate necessity in a mate that her ideologies mirror your own? I've known many couples who could easily transcend these issues, with far more divergent ideologies. Tell me exactly how your mate being a transhumanist or not being a transhumanist will affect the basic aspects of romantic attraction? If you can convince yourself to drop this near-narcissistic, xenophobic notion that anybody who does not share your beliefs has a problem, you might find yourself gaining more headway. It's really ironic that you should be so close minded about this pursuit.

Oh, and FunkO, to reiterate something I've felt like I had to repeat over and over, atheism is not the only intelligent, progressive ideology out there. I really don't understand why agnostics get swept under the rug; I've had more than enough people say "make up your mind", not really understanding that the doctrine is about accepting that which we do not know. Yes, this is an entirely separate, drawn out discussion, but it really gets my goat that atheism is perceived sort of as the "ultimate" non-theist secular stance. Of course you get flippant people like the girl I once dated who claimed she was a "agnsotic theist", but I really was into her more because she was drop dead gorgeous...

sure I could have sex with any chick with a great body and other aspects

I'm looking for someone I can have interesting and supporting conversations with - some conflict or debate is good but the basic core value is hard to reconcile if different

for instance some christians thinks we should die and suffer for god - would you want to spend your life with one?

who said anything about beliefs, I put my rationales to the test - spare me your fancy words like 'xenophobia' in your search for normative acceptance

I think athiests can still be open to the existance of god, but they would require some evidence to do so - as it stands their is no reason to believe in god or even to think 'he' might exist

Edited by abolitionist, 07 March 2009 - 04:20 AM.