43 replies to this topic

[stephen_b]

The Swanson brand says it contains 50% of the folic acid as "5 methyltetrahydrofolic acid (calcium salt)." That's kind of ambiguous as to whether it's methylfolate or calcium folinate (folinic acid).

I would think that's it's the same ingredient that they sell as a stand-alone supplement.

Edited by stephen_b, 03 May 2009 - 01:34 AM.

[yowza]

The Swanson brand says it contains 50% of the folic acid as "5 methyltetrahydrofolic acid (calcium salt)." That's kind of ambiguous as to whether it's methylfolate or calcium folinate (folinic acid).

I'm at a loss to explain this one.

I'll just try and put this in perspective and see if someone can come up with an answer.

To do this, it may be helpful to know:
A) Stuff about Folate metabolism and the natural derivatives that occur in the human body. This includes:
Natural form of folic acid.
Activated metabolite of folic acid is 5-MTHF and can be found naturally in foods (although the food industry for some reason hasn't attempted to fortify their foods with a natural or synthetic version of this as of yet it appears).

B) Synthetic Routes of creating folic acid (a non-natural form produced in a lab) and the series of chemical reactions that are made to make calcium salt (obviously not the same as the body reactions). http://74.125.95.132...i...=clnk&gl=us
The food (and supplement industries) often produce alot of their ingrediants synthetically. Folic Acid and Calcium Salt (L-5MTHF-CA; not the same as L-5MTHF even though sometimes some supplement companies may try and be confusing and denote this as L-5MTHF by simply leaving off the calcium/cation part to the name) are both common additives put in food. While the synthetic version of folic acid, assuming that the company is reputable and uses a good process, should be equivalent to the natural form for the most part. However, Calcium Salt is not the same as L-5MTHF.

Comparing end products from route A (natural derivatives produced by an organism) to route B (synthetic production) is usually not something to even think about. Usually you wouldn't have to compare a vitamin made naturally vs. a vitamin made synthetically unless they are 2 seperate products.

However, it is very difficult to compare 2 endproducts (synthesized either naturally or synthetically) when they are indirectly purported to be the same but aren't. This is because 1 product (the calcium salt) is not the same thing as it's natural counterpart. I use the term "counterpart" since I'm not exactly sure what calcium salt is made to resemble in regards to natural folate metabolites such as folic acid, 5-mthf, folinic acid, or a combination of other different metabolic derivatives??

Sorry, I know this goes back to the original question in some way, but at least gives some perspective as to why "calcium salt" is abit confusing when seeing it on a supplement label.

Edited by yowza, 03 May 2009 - 02:19 AM.

[yowza]

I would think that's it's the same ingredient that they sell as a stand-alone supplement.

Another confusing label from this company.

It doesn't say "calcium salt" on the label at all so I'm not sure if this is the same as that in their B-Complex.

However, the label on this one still differs since it says "L-Methylfolate-Metafolin" as opposed to the name "L-5MTHF" (otherwise known as L-5methyltetrahydrofolate).

However, this appears (at least judging by the reveiws, which aren't official I beleive) to be at least equivalent to L-5MTHF. How, I'm not sure.

Edited by yowza, 03 May 2009 - 02:34 AM.

[nancyd]

AOR's Advanced B Comples is another good option.

http://aor.ca/html/products.php?id=8

Is AOR a good company? I have never heard of them. This product looks perfect for me.

Unfortunately, I am using Solgars "B-Complex 100". I have hearing some bad things about solgar (lead found in some of their Turmeric supplements as well as harmful bacteria found in another one of thier products). Here is the Solgar brand I currently am using: http://www.iherb.com...Caps/12580?at=0

AOR is from Canada which is likely why you've never heard of them. You can buy some of their products from relentless improvement.

Naturally Empowered sells that brand too. I'm not sure if they sell this particular product though.

Edited by nancyd, 03 May 2009 - 02:40 AM.

[Pablo M]

I would think that's it's the same ingredient that they sell as a stand-alone supplement.

Another confusing label from this company.

It doesn't say "calcium salt" on the label at all so I'm not sure if this is the same as that in their B-Complex.

However, the label on this one still differs since it says "L-Methylfolate-Metafolin" as opposed to the name "L-5MTHF" (otherwise known as L-5methyltetrahydrofolate).

However, this appears (at least judging by the reveiws, which aren't official I beleive) to be at least equivalent to L-5MTHF. How, I'm not sure.

Perhaps I'm missing something. The product on iHerb is made by Solgar, whereas the other one is Swanson. "Metafolin" is the Merck-patented name for methylfolate, which is currently available from Solgar and a handful of boutique manufacturers at fairly high prices due to Merck's price fixing.

[Pablo M]

Also, it's interesting AOR doesn't put methylfolate in their "advanced" B-complex when they do sell it separately. Sloppy formula.

SUPPLEMENT FACTS [ADVANCED B COMPLEX]:
Serving Size: 1 Capsule
Benfotiamine 55mg
B2 (Riboflavin) 2.5mg
B3 (Niacin from Inositol Hexanicotinate) 115mg
B5 (Pantethine) 100mg
B6 (Pyridoxal-5-phosphate) 33mg
B12 (Methylcobalamin) 647mcg
Folic Acid 800mcg
Biotin 300mcg
Choline (Bitartrate) 200mg
Inositol (from Inositol, Inositol Hexanicotinate) 128mg

[spacetime]

Since the liver converts folate to 5- methyltetrahydrofolate is it really necessary to supplement with the latter? Actually, my main concern is that it might be reduced before even being absorbed. Many(or all?) b-vitamins have to undergo hydrolysis before intestinal epithelial cell uptake in the jejunum can occur. Does this hydrolysis occur on the glutamic acid or pteridine ring structure? Also 5-methylTHF is poor substrate for folate polyglutamate synthesis which is required for cellular folate retention. Normally in the methionine synthase cycle it donates it methyl to cobalamin hence the importance of the latter in cellular folate absorption. If we are using methylcobalamin then are we inhibiting the formation of THF and thus cellular uptake? The methionine synthase reaction is the only reaction in which the methyl group of 5-methyl THF can be metabolized in mammalian tissues so we can see it's importance. I suppose it could still donate it's methyl to homocysteine or other subtrates in the methionine synthase cycle so cellular uptake and retention of THF is not a concern.

[stephen_b]

Perhaps I'm missing something. The product on iHerb is made by Solgar, whereas the other one is Swanson. "Metafolin" is the Merck-patented name for methylfolate, which is currently available from Solgar and a handful of boutique manufacturers at fairly high prices due to Merck's price fixing.

I was getting the two mixed up. Solgar B complex contains plain old folic acid. Swanson Ultra Activated B-Complex High Bioavailability looks like it contains half folic acid and half folinic acid.

Folinic acid (5-formylTHF), available supplementally as calcium
folinate – also known as leucovorin calcium – is an immediate
precursor to 5, 10-methyleneTHF. Oral administration of folinic acid
bypasses the deconjugation and reduction steps required for folic
acid.

From "Folates: Supplemental Forms and. Therapeutic Applications by Gregory S. Kelly, N.D".

I've come around to believing that folinic acid is just about as good as l-methylfolate at half the price, if B2 is taken at the same time.

I wish more B complex products used something other folic acid.

StephenB

[Zeb]

What about the Super Coenzyme B-Complex from Wellness Resources?
Is it any good or is the one from Swanson better?


Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 2 capsules
Vitamin B-1 (thiamin diphosphate) 10mg 667%
Vitamin B-2 (riboflavin 5'-phosphate) 10mg 588%
Vitamin B-3 (inositol hexanicotinate) 100mg 500%
Vitamin B-5 (pantethine) 50mg 500%
Vitamin B-6 (pyridoxal 5'-phosphate) 50mg 500%
Vitamin B-12 (methylcobalamin) 200mcg 3333%
Folic Acid (calcium folinate) 400mcg 100%
Biotin (pure crystalline) 400mcg 133%
Trimethylglycine 200mg *
L-Serine 100mg *
Choline (bitartrate) 50mg *
Inositol (pure crystalline and inositol hexanicotinate) 50mg *
* Daily Value not established.

[speedkap]

It seems Swanson's ultra B complex is discontinued? Or maybe they will have a new formulation?

Anyway, what do you think of AOR's new B-complex?

SUPPLEMENT FACTS:
Serving Size: 3 Capsules

B1 (Benfotiamine) 100mg
B2 (Riboflavin-5-Phosphate) 7.5mg
B3 (Niacin – from Inositol Hexanicotinate) 345mg
B5 (Pantethine) 300mg
B6 (Pyridoxal-5-phosphate) 100mg
B12 (Methylcobalamin) 1000mcg
Folic Acid (5-Methyltetrahydrofolate) 1000mcg
Biotin 500mcg
Choline 600mg
Inositol 384mg

Also how about Pure Encapsulations B complex

B-Complex Plus
Supplement Facts

each vegetable capsule contains:
thiamine HCl (B1) 100 mg.
riboflavin HCl (B2) 5 mg.
riboflavin 5' phosphate (activated B2) 10 mg.
niacinamide 100 mg.
inositol hexaniacinate (no-flush niacin) 10 mg.
pyridoxine HCl (B6) 10 mg.
pyridoxal 5' phosphate (activated B6) 10 mg.
pantothenic acid (calcium pantothenate) (B5) 100 mg.
methylcobalamin (B12) 400 mcg.
folic acid 400 mcg.**
biotin 400 mcg.
vitamin C (as ascorbyl palmitate) 16 mg.

and ThorneResearch Basic B complex?

One Capsule Contains:
Thiamine (as Thiamine HCl) 40 mg.
Riboflavin (as Riboflavin 5'-Phosphate) 11 mg.
Niacin (130 mg as Niacinamide and 10 mg as Niacin) 140 mg.
Vitamin B6 (as Pyridoxal 5'-Phosphate) 10 mg.
Folate (200 mcg as Calcium Folinate and 200 mcg as 5-Methyl-tetrahydrofolate) 400 mcg.
Vitamin B12 (200 mcg as Adenosylcobalamin and 200 mcg as Methylcobalamin) 400 mcg.
Biotin 400 mcg.
Pantothenic Acid (as Calcium Pantothenate) 100 mg.
Choline Citrate 80 mg.

[Mousehunter]

The B-Complex from AOR seems to be the best one. Unfortunely it is pretty expensive like all products from this company.

[hamishm00]

I take the Complete B Complex from Life Extension:



Thiamin (Vitamin B1)(as Thiamin HCI) 100 mg 6,667%
Riboflavin (Vitamin B2) 50 mg 2,941%
Niacin (as Niacinamide and Niacin) 200 mg 1,000%
Vitamin B6 (as Pyridoxine HCI) 75 mg 3,750%
Folic Acid 800 mcg 200%
Vitamin B12 (as Cyanocobalamin) 1000 mcg 16,667%
Biotin 600 mcg 200%
Pantothenic Acid (as D-Calcium Pantothenate) 1000 mg 10,000%
Betaine Free Base (Trimethylglycine) 50 mg **
Choline (as Choline Bitartrate) 45 mg **
Inositol 250 mg **
Para-Aminobenzoic Acid (PABA) 100 mg **

[pycnogenol]

I'm currently taking the Twinlab B-50 Caps

Supplement Facts

Serving Size: 1 Capsule

Amount Per Serving % DV
Thiamine (from thiamine mononitrate) 50 mg 3333%
Riboflavin (from riboflavin 5' phosphate sodium, riboflavin) 50 mg 2941%
Niacin (from niacinamide) 50 mg 250%
Vitamin B6 (from pyridoxine hydrochloride) 50 mg 2500%
Folic Acid 400 mcg 100%
Vitamin B12 (from cyanocobalamin) 50 mcg 833%
Biotin 50 mcg 17%
Pantothenic Acid (from d-calcium pantothenate) 50 mg 500%
Choline Bitartrate 50 mg †
Inositol 50 mg †
PABA 50 mg †

[albedo]

I just decided to give a try to a 1/3 of the serving of the B Complex of Life Extension. I am taking it 2-3 times per week. Looking at my Hcy level. I also have thiamin and benfotiamine in the Life Extension carnosine formula which I am taking (1/2 serving) hoping to reduce AGEs.