579 replies to this topic

[chiaberry]

Eva or anyone else, do you know of a good tint product you could apply over a zinc oxide sunscreen to lessen the whitening effect?
I have a medium skin tone. Thanks.

SVR fragrance free sunblock cream SPF50 PPD20

Ingredients:
Aqua (Purified Water), Cyclomethicone, Titanium Dioxide, Glycerin, Hexyldecyl Stearate, Zinc Oxide, Caprylyl Dimethicone Ethoxy Glucoside, Hexyldecyl Stearate, Sodium PCA, Sodium Chloride, Tocopheryl Acetate, Polyglyceryl-4 Isostearate, Alumina, Methicone, Cetyl Dimethicone, Thermus Termophilus Ferment, Cyclomethicone, Quaternium-90 Bentonite, Dimethicone, Dimethiconol, Alcohol, Potassium Sorbate, Phenoxyethanol, Glycerin, Methylparaben, CI 77491 (Iron Oxides), CI 77492 (Iron Oxides), CI 77499 (Iron Oxides).

It is an European sunscreen (tinted). You can order from www.tubotica.com. They have international shipping.

[amonavis]

Hi Eva, my question is not about sunscreens, it is about layering.

I was thinking about layering my topix replenix serum with la roche posay's derm aox serum.
I was wondering if you have any thoughts about this. I have read positive information about the Vitamin C-E-Green tea polyphenol combo. However I have also heard that the metals found in plants like green tea that it can cause a pro oxidant reaction when used with Vitamin C. However, each of the products I want to use have chelators in them. Does that make it a non-issue?

Here are the ingredients for each product:

Topix replenix serum:

Purified Water, Caffeine USP, 90% Polyphenol Isolate of Camellia sinensis Leaf, Sodium Hyaluronate, Bisabolol, Cucumis sativus (Cucumber) Extract, Chamomilla recutita (Chamomile) Extract, Triethanolamine, Polysorbate 20, Carbomer, Methylparaben, Diazolidinyl Urea, Tetrasodium EDTA.

(This product is probably around a pH of 7 or so because this is apparantly the best pH for green tea)


and La Roche Posay derm AOX serum:

Water, Glycerin, PEG-20, Mis-PEG-18 Methyl Ether Dimethyl Silane, Vinyl Dimethicone/methicone Silsesquioxane Crosspolymer, Limanthes Alba Seed Oil/Meadowfoam Seed Oil, Carnosine, Ascorbic Acid, Octyldodecanol, Tocopherol, Sodium Styrene/Ma Copolymer, Sodium Hydroxide, Sodium Hyaluronate, Phenoxyethanol, Ammonium Polyacryldimethyl Taurate, Pinus Pinaster (Pycnogenol) Extract, Pinus Pinaster Bark/Bud (Pycnogenol) Extract, Xanthan Gum, Pentasodium Ethylenediamine Tetramethylene Phosphate, Caprylyl Glycol, Capryloyl Salicylic Acid, Carbomer, Disodium EDTA, Parfum/Fragrance.

(I assume that since it is a vitamin C serum that it is more on the acidic side. My guess is that the pH is around 5.)

Is it OK to use these products together?

Should I wait a while in between application or does it not matter?

Lastly, which one should I apply first? Does it go by product thickness or pH? Thanks

[Eva Victoria]

Hi Eva, my question is not about sunscreens, it is about layering.

I was thinking about layering my topix replenix serum with la roche posay's derm aox serum.
I was wondering if you have any thoughts about this. I have read positive information about the Vitamin C-E-Green tea polyphenol combo. However I have also heard that the metals found in plants like green tea that it can cause a pro oxidant reaction when used with Vitamin C. However, each of the products I want to use have chelators in them. Does that make it a non-issue?

Here are the ingredients for each product:

Topix replenix serum:

Purified Water, Caffeine USP, 90% Polyphenol Isolate of Camellia sinensis Leaf, Sodium Hyaluronate, Bisabolol, Cucumis sativus (Cucumber) Extract, Chamomilla recutita (Chamomile) Extract, Triethanolamine, Polysorbate 20, Carbomer, Methylparaben, Diazolidinyl Urea, Tetrasodium EDTA.

(This product is probably around a pH of 7 or so because this is apparantly the best pH for green tea)


and La Roche Posay derm AOX serum:

Water, Glycerin, PEG-20, Mis-PEG-18 Methyl Ether Dimethyl Silane, Vinyl Dimethicone/methicone Silsesquioxane Crosspolymer, Limanthes Alba Seed Oil/Meadowfoam Seed Oil, Carnosine, Ascorbic Acid, Octyldodecanol, Tocopherol, Sodium Styrene/Ma Copolymer, Sodium Hydroxide, Sodium Hyaluronate, Phenoxyethanol, Ammonium Polyacryldimethyl Taurate, Pinus Pinaster (Pycnogenol) Extract, Pinus Pinaster Bark/Bud (Pycnogenol) Extract, Xanthan Gum, Pentasodium Ethylenediamine Tetramethylene Phosphate, Caprylyl Glycol, Capryloyl Salicylic Acid, Carbomer, Disodium EDTA, Parfum/Fragrance.

(I assume that since it is a vitamin C serum that it is more on the acidic side. My guess is that the pH is around 5.)

Is it OK to use these products together?

Should I wait a while in between application or does it not matter?

Lastly, which one should I apply first? Does it go by product thickness or pH? Thanks

Hi A,

Vit. C and green Tea would only be a problem if they would be in the same product.
You should apply Topix replenix serum first. It is absorbed immediately while the LRP Derm AOX serum contains silicone (Mis-PEG-18 Methyl Ether Dimethyl Silane, Vinyl Dimethicone/methicone Silsesquioxane Crosspolymer) that will leave a thin layer on the skin which can be very nice as extra moisturization but it can make it more difficult for other actives to penetrate through it.
The LRP Derm AOX serum cannot contain a very high concentration of Vit. C since it is after Carnosine (the recommended concentration of Carnosine is 0.2% which would mean that they actually did put this amount in the serum.)

[amonavis]

Hi Eva, my question is not about sunscreens, it is about layering.

I was thinking about layering my topix replenix serum with la roche posay's derm aox serum.
I was wondering if you have any thoughts about this. I have read positive information about the Vitamin C-E-Green tea polyphenol combo. However I have also heard that the metals found in plants like green tea that it can cause a pro oxidant reaction when used with Vitamin C. However, each of the products I want to use have chelators in them. Does that make it a non-issue?

Here are the ingredients for each product:

Topix replenix serum:

Purified Water, Caffeine USP, 90% Polyphenol Isolate of Camellia sinensis Leaf, Sodium Hyaluronate, Bisabolol, Cucumis sativus (Cucumber) Extract, Chamomilla recutita (Chamomile) Extract, Triethanolamine, Polysorbate 20, Carbomer, Methylparaben, Diazolidinyl Urea, Tetrasodium EDTA.

(This product is probably around a pH of 7 or so because this is apparantly the best pH for green tea)


and La Roche Posay derm AOX serum:

Water, Glycerin, PEG-20, Mis-PEG-18 Methyl Ether Dimethyl Silane, Vinyl Dimethicone/methicone Silsesquioxane Crosspolymer, Limanthes Alba Seed Oil/Meadowfoam Seed Oil, Carnosine, Ascorbic Acid, Octyldodecanol, Tocopherol, Sodium Styrene/Ma Copolymer, Sodium Hydroxide, Sodium Hyaluronate, Phenoxyethanol, Ammonium Polyacryldimethyl Taurate, Pinus Pinaster (Pycnogenol) Extract, Pinus Pinaster Bark/Bud (Pycnogenol) Extract, Xanthan Gum, Pentasodium Ethylenediamine Tetramethylene Phosphate, Caprylyl Glycol, Capryloyl Salicylic Acid, Carbomer, Disodium EDTA, Parfum/Fragrance.

(I assume that since it is a vitamin C serum that it is more on the acidic side. My guess is that the pH is around 5.)

Is it OK to use these products together?

Should I wait a while in between application or does it not matter?

Lastly, which one should I apply first? Does it go by product thickness or pH? Thanks

Hi A,

Vit. C and green Tea would only be a problem if they would be in the same product.
You should apply Topix replenix serum first. It is absorbed immediately while the LRP Derm AOX serum contains silicone (Mis-PEG-18 Methyl Ether Dimethyl Silane, Vinyl Dimethicone/methicone Silsesquioxane Crosspolymer) that will leave a thin layer on the skin which can be very nice as extra moisturization but it can make it more difficult for other actives to penetrate through it.
The LRP Derm AOX serum cannot contain a very high concentration of Vit. C since it is after Carnosine (the recommended concentration of Carnosine is 0.2% which would mean that they actually did put this amount in the serum.)

Thanks so much for the fast response! So no wait is required?

[Eva Victoria]

Hi Eva, my question is not about sunscreens, it is about layering.

I was thinking about layering my topix replenix serum with la roche posay's derm aox serum.
I was wondering if you have any thoughts about this. I have read positive information about the Vitamin C-E-Green tea polyphenol combo. However I have also heard that the metals found in plants like green tea that it can cause a pro oxidant reaction when used with Vitamin C. However, each of the products I want to use have chelators in them. Does that make it a non-issue?

Here are the ingredients for each product:

Topix replenix serum:

Purified Water, Caffeine USP, 90% Polyphenol Isolate of Camellia sinensis Leaf, Sodium Hyaluronate, Bisabolol, Cucumis sativus (Cucumber) Extract, Chamomilla recutita (Chamomile) Extract, Triethanolamine, Polysorbate 20, Carbomer, Methylparaben, Diazolidinyl Urea, Tetrasodium EDTA.

(This product is probably around a pH of 7 or so because this is apparantly the best pH for green tea)


and La Roche Posay derm AOX serum:

Water, Glycerin, PEG-20, Mis-PEG-18 Methyl Ether Dimethyl Silane, Vinyl Dimethicone/methicone Silsesquioxane Crosspolymer, Limanthes Alba Seed Oil/Meadowfoam Seed Oil, Carnosine, Ascorbic Acid, Octyldodecanol, Tocopherol, Sodium Styrene/Ma Copolymer, Sodium Hydroxide, Sodium Hyaluronate, Phenoxyethanol, Ammonium Polyacryldimethyl Taurate, Pinus Pinaster (Pycnogenol) Extract, Pinus Pinaster Bark/Bud (Pycnogenol) Extract, Xanthan Gum, Pentasodium Ethylenediamine Tetramethylene Phosphate, Caprylyl Glycol, Capryloyl Salicylic Acid, Carbomer, Disodium EDTA, Parfum/Fragrance.

(I assume that since it is a vitamin C serum that it is more on the acidic side. My guess is that the pH is around 5.)

Is it OK to use these products together?

Should I wait a while in between application or does it not matter?

Lastly, which one should I apply first? Does it go by product thickness or pH? Thanks

Hi A,

Vit. C and green Tea would only be a problem if they would be in the same product.
You should apply Topix replenix serum first. It is absorbed immediately while the LRP Derm AOX serum contains silicone (Mis-PEG-18 Methyl Ether Dimethyl Silane, Vinyl Dimethicone/methicone Silsesquioxane Crosspolymer) that will leave a thin layer on the skin which can be very nice as extra moisturization but it can make it more difficult for other actives to penetrate through it.
The LRP Derm AOX serum cannot contain a very high concentration of Vit. C since it is after Carnosine (the recommended concentration of Carnosine is 0.2% which would mean that they actually did put this amount in the serum.)

Thanks so much for the fast response! So no wait is required?

No, the Topix replenix serum should be absorbed immediately after application.

[chiaberry]

Eva, I notice that many zinc oxide-based sunscreens contain the preservative Diazolidinyl Urea. To my understanding, this is a formaldehyde-releasing chemical. Is there any health hazard with this preservative? There is less alarm about this compared to parabens and many cosmetic companies are using this as an alternative to parabens and so that they can label their products "paraben-free".

[Eva Victoria]

Eva, I notice that many zinc oxide-based sunscreens contain the preservative Diazolidinyl Urea. To my understanding, this is a formaldehyde-releasing chemical. Is there any health hazard with this preservative? There is less alarm about this compared to parabens and many cosmetic companies are using this as an alternative to parabens and so that they can label their products "paraben-free".

Indeed. That is the general idea.
I personally prefer using Parabens if I must choose from two big evil. Diazolidinyl Urea and Imidazol Urea are two commonly used preservatives. Benzoic Acid can be used for lower PH products. There are natural alternatives as well, though they usually are used together with a conventional preservative.
Another solution could be to use better packaging with 100% airless systems that would also make that one used much less preservatives and the actives in the formula would also last longer.

[mustardseed41]

Eva Victoria:

Your opinion please on this sunscreen. It is a drugstore products sold in the US (Coppertone Waterbabies Pure and Simple):

Active Ingredients: Octinoxate (7.5%), Octisalate (5%), Zinc Oxide (14.5%)

Inactive Ingredients: Water, Propylene Glycol, C12 15 Alcohol Benzoate, Neopentyl Glycol Diheptanoate, Cyclopentasiloxane, Cetyl/PEG/PPG 10/1 Dimethicone, PEG 12 Dimethicone Crosspolymer, Triethoxycaprylylsilane, Aloe (Aloe Barbadensis) Leaf Extract, Ethylhexyl Palmitate, Diazolidiny Urea, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, Sodium Chloride

I don't know the particles size of the zinc oxide, but it is a little whitening.

Thanks.

It is a silicone in water sunscreen. the ZnO is coated with Triethoxycaprylylsilane. If as you say it is a bit whitening then it is most certain Z-Cote that is used. (Otherwise it might come from a Korean giant that also coats ZnO with Triethoxycaprylylsilane. In that case the primary size of the ZnO is nano-40nm, but then it would not be whitening at all at this concentration after 20 min after aplication).
This sunscreen seems to be promising esp. if it manages to form a uniform film on the skin.

Eva I have tried this sunscreen and like it. Leaves a slight whitening effect similar to the Blue Lizard. Any idea what the PPD level is?

[Eva Victoria]

Eva Victoria:

Your opinion please on this sunscreen. It is a drugstore products sold in the US (Coppertone Waterbabies Pure and Simple):

Active Ingredients: Octinoxate (7.5%), Octisalate (5%), Zinc Oxide (14.5%)

Inactive Ingredients: Water, Propylene Glycol, C12 15 Alcohol Benzoate, Neopentyl Glycol Diheptanoate, Cyclopentasiloxane, Cetyl/PEG/PPG 10/1 Dimethicone, PEG 12 Dimethicone Crosspolymer, Triethoxycaprylylsilane, Aloe (Aloe Barbadensis) Leaf Extract, Ethylhexyl Palmitate, Diazolidiny Urea, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, Sodium Chloride

I don't know the particles size of the zinc oxide, but it is a little whitening.

Thanks.

It is a silicone in water sunscreen. the ZnO is coated with Triethoxycaprylylsilane. If as you say it is a bit whitening then it is most certain Z-Cote that is used. (Otherwise it might come from a Korean giant that also coats ZnO with Triethoxycaprylylsilane. In that case the primary size of the ZnO is nano-40nm, but then it would not be whitening at all at this concentration after 20 min after aplication).
This sunscreen seems to be promising esp. if it manages to form a uniform film on the skin.

Eva I have tried this sunscreen and like it. Leaves a slight whitening effect similar to the Blue Lizard. Any idea what the PPD level is?

Coppertone Waterbabies Pure and Simple Active Ingredients: Octinoxate (7.5%), Octisalate (5%), Zinc Oxide (14.5%)

If Coppetone used Z-Cote then the PPD (actual) is around 10-13. According to BASF the PPD should be around 20. This is surrealistically high.

[ssgk]

Hi Eva,

I changed from everyday use of La Roche Posay Anthelios FE and Avene Emulsion SPF50+ to more natural, physical sunscreens. I thought they would be better, but I found in these forum that I must been using some not very good mixes, and then not getting good UVA protection. I am planning to buy another sunscreen soon, I would like to know your opinion on these:

MAC Prep and Prime Face Protect SPF 50
Active ingredients: Zinc Oxide 16.10%, Octinoxate 7.50%
Inactive: Water, cyclopentasiloxane, butylene glycol, peg-7 dimethicone, cyclohexasiloxane, dimethecone, phenyl trimethicone, vinyl dimethicone/methcone, silsequioxane crosspolymer, methyl gluceth-10, glycerin, dimethicone/ vinyl dimethicone crosspolymer, caffeine, tocepherol, sucrose, stearyl glycrrhetinate, cellulose acteate, glycyrrhetinate, cellulose acetate, methicone, PEG/PPG-19/19 Dimethicone, magnesium sulfate, silicia dimethyl silylate, silica, sorbic acid, phenoxyethanol, chlorphenesin.

Osmosis Shelter
Active Ingredient: Silica coated micronized Zinc (18% zinclear)
Inactive ingredients: Purified Water, Butyspermum Parkii (Shea Butter), Cholesterol Stearate (Liquid Crystals), Cetyl Palmitate, Sorbitan Palmitate, Sorbitan Olivate, Phosphatidylcholine, Catalase, Superoxide Dismutase, L-Glutathione, L-Sodium Hyaluronate, L-Sodium PCA, L-Sodium Lactate, Japanese Honeysuckle, Sorbic Acid, Hydroxyethyl-cellulose, Carboxymethyl Hydroxyethyl-cellulose, Magnolia Biondii Bark Extract, Camellia Sinesis Leaf Extract, Grapefruit Extract, Propolis Extract, Xanthan Gum, essential oil blend

Luzern Laboratories La Defense SPF 30+
Active ingredient: 16% Zinc Oxide (Z-Cote)
Inactive ingredients: Certified Organic Aloe Barbadensis Extract, Certified Organic Camellia Sinensis (Green Tea) Extract, Octyl Stearate, Certified Organic Helianthus Annus (Sunflower) Oil, Stearic Acid, Glyceryl Stearate, Certified Organic Calendula Officinalis Flower Extract, PEG-40 Castor Oil, Certified Organic Glyceine Soja (Soybean) Oil, Hydrolyzed Rice Protein, Alpha-Lipoic Acid, Beta- Carotene, Silica, Glucose, Polyglyceryl-3 Oleate (Glycerin/ Plant Derived), Sodium Benzoate, Xanthan Gum, Allantoin, Dimethicone Copolyol, Tocopheryl Acetate(Vitamin E), Retinyl Palmitate (Vitamin A), Lactoper Oxidase, Glucose Oxidase.

Image Skincare Solar Defense Organic SPF 30
Active Ingredient: Zinclear (31%)
Inactive ingredients: Water (aqua), cyclomethicone, glycerin, glyceryl stearate (and) PEG 100 stereate, sorbitol, imperata cylindrica root extract, ployacrylamide & C13-14 isoparaffin & Laureth-7, caprylyl glycol & phenoxethanol & hexylene glycol, lecithin, ascorbyl palmitate (vitamin C), xanthan gum, dipottassium glycyrrhizate, olea europaea (olive) leaf extract, disodium EDTA

Devita Solar Body Block SPF 30
ACTIVE INGREDIENT: MICRONIZED ZINC OXIDE: 14% (TRANSPARENT)
INACTIVE INGREDIENTS: Purified Water, Certified Organic Aloe Vera Gel, Japanese Green Tea Extract, Caprylic/Capric Triglycerides (derived from Coconut Oil), Vegetable Glycerin, Dexapanthenol (Vitamin B5), Vitamin E (Acetate), Olive Oil, Lecithin, Shea Butter, Copper Gluconate, Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein Amino Acids, Olive Squalene, Vitamin A (Palmitate), Hyaluronic Acid, NaPCA, Essential Oils of Lavender and Chamomile, Rosehip Oil, Centella Asiatica Extract, Seaweed Extract, Riboflavin Phosphate, Carrageenan, Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate, Allantoin, and Grape Seed Extract.

If somebody is interested, I already tried the two first and they have really good finishes, being the MAC the more matte though heavier (need a little bit more of blending, but at least for me it becomes transparent). The Osmosis one is very moisturizing, but I am concerned it is only 18% zinclear (I heard it is half zinc oxide).

[mustardseed41]

Eva Victoria:

Your opinion please on this sunscreen. It is a drugstore products sold in the US (Coppertone Waterbabies Pure and Simple):

Active Ingredients: Octinoxate (7.5%), Octisalate (5%), Zinc Oxide (14.5%)

Inactive Ingredients: Water, Propylene Glycol, C12 15 Alcohol Benzoate, Neopentyl Glycol Diheptanoate, Cyclopentasiloxane, Cetyl/PEG/PPG 10/1 Dimethicone, PEG 12 Dimethicone Crosspolymer, Triethoxycaprylylsilane, Aloe (Aloe Barbadensis) Leaf Extract, Ethylhexyl Palmitate, Diazolidiny Urea, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, Sodium Chloride

I don't know the particles size of the zinc oxide, but it is a little whitening.

Thanks.

It is a silicone in water sunscreen. the ZnO is coated with Triethoxycaprylylsilane. If as you say it is a bit whitening then it is most certain Z-Cote that is used. (Otherwise it might come from a Korean giant that also coats ZnO with Triethoxycaprylylsilane. In that case the primary size of the ZnO is nano-40nm, but then it would not be whitening at all at this concentration after 20 min after aplication).
This sunscreen seems to be promising esp. if it manages to form a uniform film on the skin.

Eva I have tried this sunscreen and like it. Leaves a slight whitening effect similar to the Blue Lizard. Any idea what the PPD level is?

Coppertone Waterbabies Pure and Simple Active Ingredients: Octinoxate (7.5%), Octisalate (5%), Zinc Oxide (14.5%)

If Coppetone used Z-Cote then the PPD (actual) is around 10-13. According to BASF the PPD should be around 20. This is surrealistically high.

Thanks Eva. To help offset the whitening effect of this sunscreen, I put some of my DIY serum on after I applied this sunscreen.
Ingredients: h20, but. glycol, napca, green tea, sod. hylauronate, pomogranate, acai, lutein, silymarin, centella asciatica, disodium edta. This serum gives a nice rich brownish color.
It really made a big difference. Skin looks much better. Is there any chance this would negatively effect the protection of the sunscreen such as having a diluting effect?

Edited by mustardseed41, 02 April 2010 - 06:26 PM.

[Eva Victoria]

Eva Victoria:

Your opinion please on this sunscreen. It is a drugstore products sold in the US (Coppertone Waterbabies Pure and Simple):

Active Ingredients: Octinoxate (7.5%), Octisalate (5%), Zinc Oxide (14.5%)

Inactive Ingredients: Water, Propylene Glycol, C12 15 Alcohol Benzoate, Neopentyl Glycol Diheptanoate, Cyclopentasiloxane, Cetyl/PEG/PPG 10/1 Dimethicone, PEG 12 Dimethicone Crosspolymer, Triethoxycaprylylsilane, Aloe (Aloe Barbadensis) Leaf Extract, Ethylhexyl Palmitate, Diazolidiny Urea, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, Sodium Chloride

I don't know the particles size of the zinc oxide, but it is a little whitening.

Thanks.

It is a silicone in water sunscreen. the ZnO is coated with Triethoxycaprylylsilane. If as you say it is a bit whitening then it is most certain Z-Cote that is used. (Otherwise it might come from a Korean giant that also coats ZnO with Triethoxycaprylylsilane. In that case the primary size of the ZnO is nano-40nm, but then it would not be whitening at all at this concentration after 20 min after aplication).
This sunscreen seems to be promising esp. if it manages to form a uniform film on the skin.

Eva I have tried this sunscreen and like it. Leaves a slight whitening effect similar to the Blue Lizard. Any idea what the PPD level is?

Coppertone Waterbabies Pure and Simple Active Ingredients: Octinoxate (7.5%), Octisalate (5%), Zinc Oxide (14.5%)

If Coppetone used Z-Cote then the PPD (actual) is around 10-13. According to BASF the PPD should be around 20. This is surrealistically high.

Thanks Eva. To help offset the whitening effect of this sunscreen, I put some of my DIY serum on after I applied this sunscreen.
Ingredients: h20, but. glycol, napca, green tea, sod. hylauronate, pomogranate, acai, lutein, silymarin, centella asciatica, disodium edta. This serum gives a nice rich brownish color.
It really made a big difference. Skin looks much better. Is there any chance this would negatively effect the protection of the sunscreen such as having a diluting effect?

You should not put anything on top of sunscreen. Rather before and wait till it is completely absorbed by the skin before applying sunscreen.

[Eva Victoria]

Eva Victoria:

Your opinion please on this sunscreen. It is a drugstore products sold in the US (Coppertone Waterbabies Pure and Simple):

Active Ingredients: Octinoxate (7.5%), Octisalate (5%), Zinc Oxide (14.5%)

Inactive Ingredients: Water, Propylene Glycol, C12 15 Alcohol Benzoate, Neopentyl Glycol Diheptanoate, Cyclopentasiloxane, Cetyl/PEG/PPG 10/1 Dimethicone, PEG 12 Dimethicone Crosspolymer, Triethoxycaprylylsilane, Aloe (Aloe Barbadensis) Leaf Extract, Ethylhexyl Palmitate, Diazolidiny Urea, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, Sodium Chloride

I don't know the particles size of the zinc oxide, but it is a little whitening.

Thanks.

It is a silicone in water sunscreen. the ZnO is coated with Triethoxycaprylylsilane. If as you say it is a bit whitening then it is most certain Z-Cote that is used. (Otherwise it might come from a Korean giant that also coats ZnO with Triethoxycaprylylsilane. In that case the primary size of the ZnO is nano-40nm, but then it would not be whitening at all at this concentration after 20 min after aplication).
This sunscreen seems to be promising esp. if it manages to form a uniform film on the skin.

Eva I have tried this sunscreen and like it. Leaves a slight whitening effect similar to the Blue Lizard. Any idea what the PPD level is?

Coppertone Waterbabies Pure and Simple Active Ingredients: Octinoxate (7.5%), Octisalate (5%), Zinc Oxide (14.5%)

If Coppetone used Z-Cote then the PPD (actual) is around 10-13. According to BASF the PPD should be around 20. This is surrealistically high.

Thanks Eva. To help offset the whitening effect of this sunscreen, I put some of my DIY serum on after I applied this sunscreen.
Ingredients: h20, but. glycol, napca, green tea, sod. hylauronate, pomogranate, acai, lutein, silymarin, centella asciatica, disodium edta. This serum gives a nice rich brownish color.
It really made a big difference. Skin looks much better. Is there any chance this would negatively effect the protection of the sunscreen such as having a diluting effect?

BTW, you should not forget to add preservative to your serum. Plus for the chalater though

[mustardseed41]

Forgot that I add several drops of phenoxyethanol.

[chiaberry]

Eva:

I thought that for a chemical sunscreen, it would work best if applied on bare skin so that the chemicals can absorb? If that is so, then perhaps we should not apply anything under the sunscreen and rather apply over it?

With physical sunscreen, I would not apply anything over it.

Edited by chiaberry, 03 April 2010 - 12:02 AM.

[Ben]

Hi Eva, how're you going?

Just wondering about your thoughts on LRPA Fluide Extreme SPF 50+. Is it dated now? Are there better suncreens that could be as cosmetically pleasing? I like how fluid it is, because it won't leave my skin too shiny like a lot of other sunscreens do (even so called "sheer" ones like Nivea's Light feeling sensation SPF 50).


Ingredients for my LRPA Fluide Extreme SPF 50+

INGREDIENTS: AQUA, CYCLOPENTASILOXANE, ISONONYL ISONONANOATE, OCTOCRYLENE, ALCOHOL DENAT., CYCLOHEXASILOXANE, DICAPRYLYL CARBONATE, TITANIUM DIOXIDE, GLYCERIN, DIMETHICONE, BUTYL METHOXYDIBENZOYLMETHANE, POLYMETHYLSILSESQUIOXANE, PROPYLENE GLYCOL, PEG-30 DIPOLYHYDROXYSTEARATE, SILICA, NYLON- 12, DROMETRIZOLE TRISILOXANE, BIS-ETHYLHEXYLOXYPHENOL METHOXYPHENYL TRIAZINE, DIPHENYL DIMETHICONE, DISTEARDIMONIUM HECTORITE, DODECENE, LAURYL PEG/PPG-18 / 18 METHICONE, PENTASODIUM ETHYLENEDIAMINE TETRAMETHYLENE, PHOSPHONATE, PHENOXYETHANOL, POLOXAMER 407, TEREPHTHALYLIDENE DICAMPHOR SULFONIC ACID, TOCOPHEROL, TRIETHANOLAMINE.


Thanks Eva.

[mustardseed41]

Eva:

I thought that for a chemical sunscreen, it would work best if applied on bare skin so that the chemicals can absorb? If that is so, then perhaps we should not apply anything under the sunscreen and rather apply over it?

With physical sunscreen, I would not apply anything over it.

People apply vitamin C serum, other serums, under sunscreens. Both chemical and physical.

[Eva Victoria]

Eva:

I thought that for a chemical sunscreen, it would work best if applied on bare skin so that the chemicals can absorb? If that is so, then perhaps we should not apply anything under the sunscreen and rather apply over it?

With physical sunscreen, I would not apply anything over it.

Ideally, it should be applied on bare skin. AND nothing over chemical or physical sunscreens.
BUT most people need to apply serum as well. Then the serum should be applied first, wait till it is fully absorbed and then apply sunscreen.

[Eva Victoria]

Hi Eva, how're you going?

Just wondering about your thoughts on LRPA Fluide Extreme SPF 50+. Is it dated now? Are there better suncreens that could be as cosmetically pleasing? I like how fluid it is, because it won't leave my skin too shiny like a lot of other sunscreens do (even so called "sheer" ones like Nivea's Light feeling sensation SPF 50).


Ingredients for my LRPA Fluide Extreme SPF 50+

INGREDIENTS: AQUA, CYCLOPENTASILOXANE, ISONONYL ISONONANOATE, OCTOCRYLENE, ALCOHOL DENAT., CYCLOHEXASILOXANE, DICAPRYLYL CARBONATE, TITANIUM DIOXIDE, GLYCERIN, DIMETHICONE, BUTYL METHOXYDIBENZOYLMETHANE, POLYMETHYLSILSESQUIOXANE, PROPYLENE GLYCOL, PEG-30 DIPOLYHYDROXYSTEARATE, SILICA, NYLON- 12, DROMETRIZOLE TRISILOXANE, BIS-ETHYLHEXYLOXYPHENOL METHOXYPHENYL TRIAZINE, DIPHENYL DIMETHICONE, DISTEARDIMONIUM HECTORITE, DODECENE, LAURYL PEG/PPG-18 / 18 METHICONE, PENTASODIUM ETHYLENEDIAMINE TETRAMETHYLENE, PHOSPHONATE, PHENOXYETHANOL, POLOXAMER 407, TEREPHTHALYLIDENE DICAMPHOR SULFONIC ACID, TOCOPHEROL, TRIETHANOLAMINE.


Thanks Eva.

Hi Ben,

This sunscreen is still one of the best when it comes to UVA protection and being cosmetically acceptable along with the sunscreens from Bioderma.

[TheFountain]

Eva I am thinking about quitting Retin-A as it is still too irritating for my skin even after a year of on/off experimentation. Adapalene seems to work better for my skin but even that dries me out to a degree. What are some alternative collagen producing methods? I already take Biosil. What else is there that has no irritation causing side effects? Plus do you think it is likely that Adapalene use leads to some collagen production?

Edited by TheFountain, 04 April 2010 - 08:15 PM.

[happy lemon]

Fountain,

http://www.imminst.o...o...st&p=397057

[Eva Victoria]

Eva I am thinking about quitting Retin-A as it is still too irritating for my skin even after a year of on/off experimentation. Adapalene seems to work better for my skin but even that dries me out to a degree. What are some alternative collagen producing methods? I already take Biosil. What else is there that has no irritation causing side effects? Plus do you think it is likely that Adapalene use leads to some collagen production?

The best still for collagen preservation / production is use of a broad spectrum sunscreen every day.
Glycolic Acid has also collagen producing effects so has Azaleic Acid and Ascorbic Acid.
There are some peptides that also claim to have this effect.
Adapalene has shown week collagen producing effect in some studies but it has also shown no effect on collagen production in other studies.

Edited by Eva Victoria, 05 April 2010 - 01:36 PM.

[chiaberry]

The best still for collagen preservation / production is use of a broad spectrum sunscreen every day.
Glycolic Acid has also collagen producing effects so has Azaleic Acid and Ascorbic Acid.
There are some peptides that also claim to have this effect.
Adapalene has shown week collagen producing effect in some studies but it has also shown no effect on collagen production in other studies.

Is tretinoin superior to glycolic acid/azaleic acid/ascorbic acid in collagen producing effect?

[TheFountain]

Eva I am thinking about quitting Retin-A as it is still too irritating for my skin even after a year of on/off experimentation. Adapalene seems to work better for my skin but even that dries me out to a degree. What are some alternative collagen producing methods? I already take Biosil. What else is there that has no irritation causing side effects? Plus do you think it is likely that Adapalene use leads to some collagen production?

The best still for collagen preservation / production is use of a broad spectrum sunscreen every day.
Glycolic Acid has also collagen producing effects so has Azaleic Acid and Ascorbic Acid.
There are some peptides that also claim to have this effect.
Adapalene has shown week collagen producing effect in some studies but it has also shown no effect on collagen production in other studies.

Can you show me the studies you are talking about please? And what about topical niacinamide? Isn't that suppose to have collagen producing effects as well? One thing I cannot find is a reference indicating how much it effects collagen production. Isn't glycolic acid a peel? And are there studies indicating it and azeleic show specific collagen producing effects in terms of percentages?

[TheFountain]

Fountain,

http://www.imminst.o...o...st&p=397057

I remember that thread. What you are missing is that I have abnormally sensitive skin. I cannot tolerate a whole host of actives at one time (especially acidic ones). That is why I am seeking simpler alternatives than having to layer on a bunch of potential irritants.

Edited by TheFountain, 05 April 2010 - 05:48 PM.

[Eva Victoria]

Eva I am thinking about quitting Retin-A as it is still too irritating for my skin even after a year of on/off experimentation. Adapalene seems to work better for my skin but even that dries me out to a degree. What are some alternative collagen producing methods? I already take Biosil. What else is there that has no irritation causing side effects? Plus do you think it is likely that Adapalene use leads to some collagen production?

The best still for collagen preservation / production is use of a broad spectrum sunscreen every day.
Glycolic Acid has also collagen producing effects so has Azaleic Acid and Ascorbic Acid.
There are some peptides that also claim to have this effect.
Adapalene has shown week collagen producing effect in some studies but it has also shown no effect on collagen production in other studies.

Can you show me the studies you are talking about please? And what about topical niacinamide? Isn't that suppose to have collagen producing effects as well? One thing I cannot find is a reference indicating how much it effects collagen production. Isn't glycolic acid a peel? And are there studies indicating it and azeleic show specific collagen producing effects in terms of percentages?

The studies I have to find and it may take some time esp. that I am moving at the moment. But there are some studies showing the collagen producing effect of Tretinoin, Glycolic Acid, TCA in the book: Photoaging.
There are many ingredients claiming that they have collagen producing effects. The studies (financed by the producers) show marvelous results for all of them. So I would not be so hooked up on them. It also depends on the formulation. 5% something in one formulation will produce a different effect than the same ingredient in the same percentage in a different formulation. And even on different skin! The more the skin is damaged the better the results will be.

[happy lemon]

Fountain,

http://www.imminst.o...o...st&p=397057

I remember that thread. What you are missing is that I have abnormally sensitive skin. I cannot tolerate a whole host of actives at one time (especially acidic ones). That is why I am seeking simpler alternatives than having to layer on a bunch of potential irritants.

No, the only additional active is Copper Peptide; while squalane & jojoba oil are oil for moisturizing.

[happy lemon]

Eva,

If you have time, I'd like you to comment which one you prefer.

Except the first Sunscreen from which label I can see the percentage of active ingredients, there are no percentage stated in other 4.

FYI, all are SPF 50+ PA+++


Sunscreen #1

Active Ingredients: Ethylhexyl Methoxycinnamate 5%, Zinc Oxide 12.04%

Others: Cyclomethicone, Dimethicone, Alcohol, Water, Lauryl Methacrylate/Sodium Methacrylate Crosspolymer, Glycerin, Talc, Styrene/Stearyl Methacrylate Crosspolymer, Methicone, Polysilicone-9, PEG-12 Dimethicone, Titanium Dioxide, PEG-3 Dimethicone, Phenoxyethanol, Cetyl-PG Hydroxyethyl Palmitamide, Alumina, Silica, Sodium Methyl Stearoyl Taurate, BHT, Iron Oxides, Tocopherol


Sunscreen #2

Cyclomethicone, Water, Dimethicone, Zinc Oxide, Alcohol, Glycerin, Ethylhexyl Methoxycinnamate, Talc, Polymethylsilsesquioxane, Lauryl Methacrylate/Glycol Dimethacrylate Crosspolymer, Polysilicone-9, PEG-12 Dimethicone, PEG-3 Dimethicone, BHT, Cetyl-PG Hydroxyethyl Palmitamide, Hydroxyethyl Isostearyloxy Isopropanolamine, Bis-Methoxypropylamido Isodocosane, Cholesterol, Palmitic Acid, Ceramide 2, Methicone, Titanium Dioxide, Aluminum Hydroxide, Hydrated Silica, Dimethicone/Methicone Copolymer, Silica, Citrus Junos Peel Extract, Thujopsis Dolabrata Extract, Butylene Glycol, Zingiber Officinale (Ginger) Root Extract, Eucalyptus Globulus Leaf Extract

Sunscreen #3

Cyclomethicone, Water, Dimethicone, Zinc Oxide, Alcohol, Ethylhexyl Methoxycinnamate, Glycerin, Talc, Polymethylsilsesquioxane, Lauryl Methacrylate/Glycol Dimethacrylate Crosspolymer, Polysilicone-9, Methicone, Titanium Dioxide, PEG-12 Dimethicone, PEG-3 Dimethicone, Aluminum Hydroxide, Silica, Hydrated Silica

Sunscreen #4

Water, Cyclomethicone, Dimethicone, Zinc Oxide, Alcohol,, ethylhexyl methoxycinnamate,, Glycerin,, Talc, Polymethylsilsesquioxane, Lauryl methacrylate / glycol dimethacrylate copolymer, Polysilicone-9,, Thujopsis dolabrata Extract, Althaea officinalis extract, Eucalyptus globulus extract,, Cetyl-PG hydroxyethyl Palmitamide, BIS-Methoxypropylamido Isodocosane, ceramide 2, hydroxyethyl Isopropanolamine Isostearyl oxy, Butylene Glycol, Hydroxydecanoic acid, cholesterol, Titanium Dioxide, Silica, Alumina, aluminum hydroxide, Palmitic Acid, PEG-12 Dimethicone, PEG-3 Dimethicone, Methicone

[Eva Victoria]

Eva,

If you have time, I'd like you to comment which one you prefer.

Except the first Sunscreen from which label I can see the percentage of active ingredients, there are no percentage stated in other 4.

FYI, all are SPF 50+ PA+++


Sunscreen #1

Active Ingredients: Ethylhexyl Methoxycinnamate 5%, Zinc Oxide 12.04%

Others: Cyclomethicone, Dimethicone, Alcohol, Water, Lauryl Methacrylate/Sodium Methacrylate Crosspolymer, Glycerin, Talc, Styrene/Stearyl Methacrylate Crosspolymer, Methicone, Polysilicone-9, PEG-12 Dimethicone, Titanium Dioxide, PEG-3 Dimethicone, Phenoxyethanol, Cetyl-PG Hydroxyethyl Palmitamide, Alumina, Silica, Sodium Methyl Stearoyl Taurate, BHT, Iron Oxides, Tocopherol


Sunscreen #2

Cyclomethicone, Water, Dimethicone, Zinc Oxide, Alcohol, Glycerin, Ethylhexyl Methoxycinnamate, Talc, Polymethylsilsesquioxane, Lauryl Methacrylate/Glycol Dimethacrylate Crosspolymer, Polysilicone-9, PEG-12 Dimethicone, PEG-3 Dimethicone, BHT, Cetyl-PG Hydroxyethyl Palmitamide, Hydroxyethyl Isostearyloxy Isopropanolamine, Bis-Methoxypropylamido Isodocosane, Cholesterol, Palmitic Acid, Ceramide 2, Methicone, Titanium Dioxide, Aluminum Hydroxide, Hydrated Silica, Dimethicone/Methicone Copolymer, Silica, Citrus Junos Peel Extract, Thujopsis Dolabrata Extract, Butylene Glycol, Zingiber Officinale (Ginger) Root Extract, Eucalyptus Globulus Leaf Extract

Sunscreen #3

Cyclomethicone, Water, Dimethicone, Zinc Oxide, Alcohol, Ethylhexyl Methoxycinnamate, Glycerin, Talc, Polymethylsilsesquioxane, Lauryl Methacrylate/Glycol Dimethacrylate Crosspolymer, Polysilicone-9, Methicone, Titanium Dioxide, PEG-12 Dimethicone, PEG-3 Dimethicone, Aluminum Hydroxide, Silica, Hydrated Silica

Sunscreen #4

Water, Cyclomethicone, Dimethicone, Zinc Oxide, Alcohol,, ethylhexyl methoxycinnamate,, Glycerin,, Talc, Polymethylsilsesquioxane, Lauryl methacrylate / glycol dimethacrylate copolymer, Polysilicone-9,, Thujopsis dolabrata Extract, Althaea officinalis extract, Eucalyptus globulus extract,, Cetyl-PG hydroxyethyl Palmitamide, BIS-Methoxypropylamido Isodocosane, ceramide 2, hydroxyethyl Isopropanolamine Isostearyl oxy, Butylene Glycol, Hydroxydecanoic acid, cholesterol, Titanium Dioxide, Silica, Alumina, aluminum hydroxide, Palmitic Acid, PEG-12 Dimethicone, PEG-3 Dimethicone, Methicone

Nr4. It has most likely a very nice consistency. I don't see any chalater (BHT, EDTA, EDETA) I hope it is something that is missing in the ingredient list not in the product though.
I also think that nr 1 might be a good choice too. Maybe a more sure choice since it is stated that it contains 12% ZnO. The others can contain ZnO from 6% onward, which will make that they can put PA+++ on the bottle without actually having more than PPD 8.1.

Are these 4 sunscreens from the same producer?

[mustardseed41]

Eva Victoria:

Your opinion please on this sunscreen. It is a drugstore products sold in the US (Coppertone Waterbabies Pure and Simple):

Active Ingredients: Octinoxate (7.5%), Octisalate (5%), Zinc Oxide (14.5%)

Inactive Ingredients: Water, Propylene Glycol, C12 15 Alcohol Benzoate, Neopentyl Glycol Diheptanoate, Cyclopentasiloxane, Cetyl/PEG/PPG 10/1 Dimethicone, PEG 12 Dimethicone Crosspolymer, Triethoxycaprylylsilane, Aloe (Aloe Barbadensis) Leaf Extract, Ethylhexyl Palmitate, Diazolidiny Urea, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, Sodium Chloride

I don't know the particles size of the zinc oxide, but it is a little whitening.

Thanks.

It is a silicone in water sunscreen. the ZnO is coated with Triethoxycaprylylsilane. If as you say it is a bit whitening then it is most certain Z-Cote that is used. (Otherwise it might come from a Korean giant that also coats ZnO with Triethoxycaprylylsilane. In that case the primary size of the ZnO is nano-40nm, but then it would not be whitening at all at this concentration after 20 min after aplication).
This sunscreen seems to be promising esp. if it manages to form a uniform film on the skin.

Eva I have tried this sunscreen and like it. Leaves a slight whitening effect similar to the Blue Lizard. Any idea what the PPD level is?

Coppertone Waterbabies Pure and Simple Active Ingredients: Octinoxate (7.5%), Octisalate (5%), Zinc Oxide (14.5%)

If Coppetone used Z-Cote then the PPD (actual) is around 10-13. According to BASF the PPD should be around 20. This is surrealistically high.

According to this site, this sunscreen is nano zinc oxide. Is this indeed correct? I was under the impression that if the sunscreen goes on clear, it's nanosized. This one most definitely does not go on clear. I'd hate to not be protected well in the longer uv range. Thanks. http://www.cosmetics.....tion,_SPF_50/
I realize that site is often incorrect or leads you to believe everything will kill you. I am going to call Coppertone and ask them.

Edited by mustardseed41, 08 April 2010 - 12:28 AM.