579 replies to this topic

[mustardseed41]

An interesting read. http://www.ewg.org/c...logy-Sunscreens

[happy lemon]

Are these 4 sunscreens from the same producer?

Eva,

Yes, all those 4 sunscreen products are made by the same Japanese manufacturer: Kao Corporation.

Under Kao, there is brand called Sofina and under Sofina, there are 16 product lines for different markets.

Only some product lines have sunscreen products like Beaute (general), Hada-Ka (sensitive skin), Alblanc (whitening products) & Perfect UV (outdoor).

For Alblanc, Beaute & Hada-Ka, they are sweat resistant sunscreen moisturizers. Both SPF 24 PA+++ and SPF 50+ PA+++ are available.

For Perfect UV, they are water resistant (only SPF 50+ PA+++ is available).

After all, all said sunscreen products are feather light & as thin as water. You won't notice ANY whitish cast on your face.

I have just bought Hada-Ka (SPF 24 & SPF 50+) & Perfect UV (SPF 50+); after applying any of them of my face for few minutes, I don't feel like putting any on my skin.

Also, they are non sticky and have good ability to absorb oil (good for hot and humid summers in Asia).

That is why Sofina is so popular in Asia.

That said, they are quite expensive; for Beaute & Hada-Ka, the price is from USD 32 to USD 38 per 30ml; USD 25 per 60ml for Perfecr UV.

http://www.kao.com/j...091207_002.html

http://www.sofina.com/jp/products/


Sofina tells me that all those 4 sunscreens that I showed you the ingredient list are chemical + physical suncreens; is it true?

[Eva Victoria]

Are these 4 sunscreens from the same producer?

Eva,

Yes, all those 4 sunscreen products are made by the same Japanese manufacturer: Kao Corporation.

Under Kao, there is brand called Sofina and under Sofina, there are 16 product lines for different markets.

Only some product lines have sunscreen products like Beaute (general), Hada-Ka (sensitive skin), Alblanc (whitening products) & Perfect UV (outdoor).

For Alblanc, Beaute & Hada-Ka, they are sweat resistant sunscreen moisturizers. Both SPF 24 PA+++ and SPF 50+ PA+++ are available.

For Perfect UV, they are water resistant (only SPF 50+ PA+++ is available).

After all, all said sunscreen products are feather light & as thin as water. You won't notice ANY whitish cast on your face.

I have just bought Hada-Ka (SPF 24 & SPF 50+) & Perfect UV (SPF 50+); after applying any of them of my face for few minutes, I don't feel like putting any on my skin.

Also, they are non sticky and have good ability to absorb oil (good for hot and humid summers in Asia).

That is why Sofina is so popular in Asia.

That said, they are quite expensive; for Beaute & Hada-Ka, the price is from USD 32 to USD 38 per 30ml; USD 25 per 60ml for Perfecr UV.

http://www.kao.com/j...091207_002.html

http://www.sofina.com/jp/products/


Sofina tells me that all those 4 sunscreens that I showed you the ingredient list are chemical + physical suncreens; is it true?

Have to say, that the ingredient lists for all sunscreens were very impressive. They really look like very elegant sunscreens.
They all are chemical (OMC) and physical (ZnO) sunscreens indeed.

[Eva Victoria]

An interesting read. http://www.ewg.org/c...logy-Sunscreens

Thanks for posting this.

[Eva Victoria]

Eva Victoria:

Your opinion please on this sunscreen. It is a drugstore products sold in the US (Coppertone Waterbabies Pure and Simple):

Active Ingredients: Octinoxate (7.5%), Octisalate (5%), Zinc Oxide (14.5%)

Inactive Ingredients: Water, Propylene Glycol, C12 15 Alcohol Benzoate, Neopentyl Glycol Diheptanoate, Cyclopentasiloxane, Cetyl/PEG/PPG 10/1 Dimethicone, PEG 12 Dimethicone Crosspolymer, Triethoxycaprylylsilane, Aloe (Aloe Barbadensis) Leaf Extract, Ethylhexyl Palmitate, Diazolidiny Urea, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, Sodium Chloride

I don't know the particles size of the zinc oxide, but it is a little whitening.

Thanks.

It is a silicone in water sunscreen. the ZnO is coated with Triethoxycaprylylsilane. If as you say it is a bit whitening then it is most certain Z-Cote that is used. (Otherwise it might come from a Korean giant that also coats ZnO with Triethoxycaprylylsilane. In that case the primary size of the ZnO is nano-40nm, but then it would not be whitening at all at this concentration after 20 min after aplication).
This sunscreen seems to be promising esp. if it manages to form a uniform film on the skin.

Eva I have tried this sunscreen and like it. Leaves a slight whitening effect similar to the Blue Lizard. Any idea what the PPD level is?

Coppertone Waterbabies Pure and Simple Active Ingredients: Octinoxate (7.5%), Octisalate (5%), Zinc Oxide (14.5%)

If Coppetone used Z-Cote then the PPD (actual) is around 10-13. According to BASF the PPD should be around 20. This is surrealistically high.

According to this site, this sunscreen is nano zinc oxide. Is this indeed correct? I was under the impression that if the sunscreen goes on clear, it's nanosized. This one most definitely does not go on clear. I'd hate to not be protected well in the longer uv range. Thanks. http://www.cosmetics.....tion,_SPF_50/
I realize that site is often incorrect or leads you to believe everything will kill you. I am going to call Coppertone and ask them.

I cannot answer this without properly measuring the particle size of the product. Hope you will have your answer from Coppertone.

[happy lemon]

They all are chemical (OMC) and physical (ZnO) sunscreens indeed.

Hi Eva,

May you tell me more about OMC? I don't know this filter at all; is it photostable?

[happy lemon]

Nr4. It has most likely a very nice consistency. I don't see any chalater (BHT, EDTA, EDETA) I hope it is something that is missing in the ingredient list not in the product though.

I also think that nr 1 might be a good choice too. Maybe a more sure choice since it is stated that it contains 12% ZnO. The others can contain ZnO from 6% onward, which will make that they can put PA+++ on the bottle without actually having more than PPD 8.1.

I bought Sunscreen Number 1, 3 & 4.

[Eva Victoria]

They all are chemical (OMC) and physical (ZnO) sunscreens indeed.

Hi Eva,

May you tell me more about OMC? I don't know this filter at all; is it photostable?

OMC is Octyl Methoxycinnamate EU INCI name: Ethylhexyl Methoxycinnamate, US INCI name: Octinoxate.
It is not photostable. But ZnO has a photo stabilizing effect on OMC. (Tinosorb S has photostabilizing effect on it as well).
OMC has been around for 80 years with documented UVB effect. It is a very good UVB filter with high filtering capability for percent active.
It has lost its popularity in the beginning of 2000 due to its estrogenic effect. Since then many companies have replaced it with Octocrylene (which is also more photo stable). OMC has very good moisturizing abilities and is very mild for the skin (while OCR can cause skin irritation and rushes on sensitive skin).
OMC is still very popular in the US and very often combined with ZnO (and Octysalate (EU INCI: Octyl Salicylate) or/ and Homosalate and/or Benzophone-3).
Often, in high-end products, it is combined with AVO (Avobenzone) which results in a cosmetically elegant sunscreen with high photo unstability /photo degradation in a very short time after application/.

[mustardseed41]

Eva Victoria:

Your opinion please on this sunscreen. It is a drugstore products sold in the US (Coppertone Waterbabies Pure and Simple):

Active Ingredients: Octinoxate (7.5%), Octisalate (5%), Zinc Oxide (14.5%)

Inactive Ingredients: Water, Propylene Glycol, C12 15 Alcohol Benzoate, Neopentyl Glycol Diheptanoate, Cyclopentasiloxane, Cetyl/PEG/PPG 10/1 Dimethicone, PEG 12 Dimethicone Crosspolymer, Triethoxycaprylylsilane, Aloe (Aloe Barbadensis) Leaf Extract, Ethylhexyl Palmitate, Diazolidiny Urea, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, Sodium Chloride

I don't know the particles size of the zinc oxide, but it is a little whitening.

Thanks.

It is a silicone in water sunscreen. the ZnO is coated with Triethoxycaprylylsilane. If as you say it is a bit whitening then it is most certain Z-Cote that is used. (Otherwise it might come from a Korean giant that also coats ZnO with Triethoxycaprylylsilane. In that case the primary size of the ZnO is nano-40nm, but then it would not be whitening at all at this concentration after 20 min after aplication).
This sunscreen seems to be promising esp. if it manages to form a uniform film on the skin.

Eva I have tried this sunscreen and like it. Leaves a slight whitening effect similar to the Blue Lizard. Any idea what the PPD level is?

Coppertone Waterbabies Pure and Simple Active Ingredients: Octinoxate (7.5%), Octisalate (5%), Zinc Oxide (14.5%)

If Coppetone used Z-Cote then the PPD (actual) is around 10-13. According to BASF the PPD should be around 20. This is surrealistically high.

According to this site, this sunscreen is nano zinc oxide. Is this indeed correct? I was under the impression that if the sunscreen goes on clear, it's nanosized. This one most definitely does not go on clear. I'd hate to not be protected well in the longer uv range. Thanks. http://www.cosmetics.....tion,_SPF_50/
I realize that site is often incorrect or leads you to believe everything will kill you. I am going to call Coppertone and ask them.

I cannot answer this without properly measuring the particle size of the product. Hope you will have your answer from Coppertone.

Well I called Coppertone and it is indeed nano zinc oxide. Eva, how little uv protection am I getting in the long uv range?
Guess it's back to the Blue Lizard till I can find better.Check that....Blue Lizard also used nano. Including nano titanium dioxide.

Edited by mustardseed41, 08 April 2010 - 08:53 PM.

[chiaberry]

happy lemon:

It is likely that the Japanese sunscreens contain nano-sized zinc oxide and therefore the UVA protection might not be as good as you might need. Of course the UVB protection would be fine with octinoxate included.

So there is a price to be paid for cosmetic elegance of the sunscreen.

[mustardseed41]

Looks like I'm gonna try the Badger spf30 again. 20.5% z-cote. Heck I can buy it less than 1/4 mile from my house at Publix supermarket.

[happy lemon]

happy lemon:

It is likely that the Japanese sunscreens contain nano-sized zinc oxide and therefore the UVA protection might not be as good as you might need. Of course the UVB protection would be fine with octinoxate included.

So there is a price to be paid for cosmetic elegance of the sunscreen.

Hi Chiaberry,

I believe so; if not, how come it doesn't leave any white cast on the skin? I'll send a mail to Kao/Sofina to check it out.

[Eva Victoria]

Eva Victoria:

Your opinion please on this sunscreen. It is a drugstore products sold in the US (Coppertone Waterbabies Pure and Simple):

Active Ingredients: Octinoxate (7.5%), Octisalate (5%), Zinc Oxide (14.5%)

Inactive Ingredients: Water, Propylene Glycol, C12 15 Alcohol Benzoate, Neopentyl Glycol Diheptanoate, Cyclopentasiloxane, Cetyl/PEG/PPG 10/1 Dimethicone, PEG 12 Dimethicone Crosspolymer, Triethoxycaprylylsilane, Aloe (Aloe Barbadensis) Leaf Extract, Ethylhexyl Palmitate, Diazolidiny Urea, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, Sodium Chloride

I don't know the particles size of the zinc oxide, but it is a little whitening.

Thanks.

It is a silicone in water sunscreen. the ZnO is coated with Triethoxycaprylylsilane. If as you say it is a bit whitening then it is most certain Z-Cote that is used. (Otherwise it might come from a Korean giant that also coats ZnO with Triethoxycaprylylsilane. In that case the primary size of the ZnO is nano-40nm, but then it would not be whitening at all at this concentration after 20 min after aplication).
This sunscreen seems to be promising esp. if it manages to form a uniform film on the skin.

Eva I have tried this sunscreen and like it. Leaves a slight whitening effect similar to the Blue Lizard. Any idea what the PPD level is?

Coppertone Waterbabies Pure and Simple Active Ingredients: Octinoxate (7.5%), Octisalate (5%), Zinc Oxide (14.5%)

If Coppetone used Z-Cote then the PPD (actual) is around 10-13. According to BASF the PPD should be around 20. This is surrealistically high.

According to this site, this sunscreen is nano zinc oxide. Is this indeed correct? I was under the impression that if the sunscreen goes on clear, it's nanosized. This one most definitely does not go on clear. I'd hate to not be protected well in the longer uv range. Thanks. http://www.cosmetics.....tion,_SPF_50/
I realize that site is often incorrect or leads you to believe everything will kill you. I am going to call Coppertone and ask them.

I cannot answer this without properly measuring the particle size of the product. Hope you will have your answer from Coppertone.

Well I called Coppertone and it is indeed nano zinc oxide. Eva, how little uv protection am I getting in the long uv range?
Guess it's back to the Blue Lizard till I can find better.Check that....Blue Lizard also used nano. Including nano titanium dioxide.

It was really sad to hear about both sunscreens.
Nano ZnO protects extremely well in the UVB range but in the UVA it is usually protective up to 340nm. So it is not so good.
Nano Titanium Dioxide is also extremely good in the UVB range (290-320) but that is about it.

[mustardseed41]

Eva Victoria:

Your opinion please on this sunscreen. It is a drugstore products sold in the US (Coppertone Waterbabies Pure and Simple):

Active Ingredients: Octinoxate (7.5%), Octisalate (5%), Zinc Oxide (14.5%)

Inactive Ingredients: Water, Propylene Glycol, C12 15 Alcohol Benzoate, Neopentyl Glycol Diheptanoate, Cyclopentasiloxane, Cetyl/PEG/PPG 10/1 Dimethicone, PEG 12 Dimethicone Crosspolymer, Triethoxycaprylylsilane, Aloe (Aloe Barbadensis) Leaf Extract, Ethylhexyl Palmitate, Diazolidiny Urea, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, Sodium Chloride

I don't know the particles size of the zinc oxide, but it is a little whitening.

Thanks.

It is a silicone in water sunscreen. the ZnO is coated with Triethoxycaprylylsilane. If as you say it is a bit whitening then it is most certain Z-Cote that is used. (Otherwise it might come from a Korean giant that also coats ZnO with Triethoxycaprylylsilane. In that case the primary size of the ZnO is nano-40nm, but then it would not be whitening at all at this concentration after 20 min after aplication).
This sunscreen seems to be promising esp. if it manages to form a uniform film on the skin.

Eva I have tried this sunscreen and like it. Leaves a slight whitening effect similar to the Blue Lizard. Any idea what the PPD level is?

Coppertone Waterbabies Pure and Simple Active Ingredients: Octinoxate (7.5%), Octisalate (5%), Zinc Oxide (14.5%)

If Coppetone used Z-Cote then the PPD (actual) is around 10-13. According to BASF the PPD should be around 20. This is surrealistically high.

According to this site, this sunscreen is nano zinc oxide. Is this indeed correct? I was under the impression that if the sunscreen goes on clear, it's nanosized. This one most definitely does not go on clear. I'd hate to not be protected well in the longer uv range. Thanks. http://www.cosmetics.....tion,_SPF_50/
I realize that site is often incorrect or leads you to believe everything will kill you. I am going to call Coppertone and ask them.

I cannot answer this without properly measuring the particle size of the product. Hope you will have your answer from Coppertone.

Well I called Coppertone and it is indeed nano zinc oxide. Eva, how little uv protection am I getting in the long uv range?
Guess it's back to the Blue Lizard till I can find better.Check that....Blue Lizard also used nano. Including nano titanium dioxide.

It was really sad to hear about both sunscreens.
Nano ZnO protects extremely well in the UVB range but in the UVA it is usually protective up to 340nm. So it is not so good.
Nano Titanium Dioxide is also extremely good in the UVB range (290-320) but that is about it.

Yes it was. Thanks for all your help. Found this sunscreen yesterday. http://www.purplepra...group=SunScreen
Similar ingredients to the Badger sunscreen but much cheaper. Big bottle available also.

[mustardseed41]

Eva, what is your opinion about what this guy is saying about nano zinc oxide?

http://keys-soap.com/keysblog/?p=359

[chiaberry]

The Purple Prairie sunblock contains Z-Cote.

eva: Do all the versions of Z-Cote contain nano-sized particles? I see on the BASF website there are 3 versions.

[mustardseed41]

The Purple Prairie sunblock contains Z-Cote.

eva: Do all the versions of Z-Cote contain nano-sized particles? I see on the BASF website there are 3 versions.

Seems Z-Cote is on the edge of nano at 60nm (nano being 20-60nm)

[Eva Victoria]

Eva, what is your opinion about what this guy is saying about nano zinc oxide?

http://keys-soap.com/keysblog/?p=359

I don't agree with him. I think we know far too little of the safety of nano-particles generally.

[Eva Victoria]

The Purple Prairie sunblock contains Z-Cote.

eva: Do all the versions of Z-Cote contain nano-sized particles? I see on the BASF website there are 3 versions.

All the 3 versions hava particle size 60nm. Under 40nm it is considered to be nano-size.

[chiaberry]

Eva, what is your opinion about what this guy is saying about nano zinc oxide?

http://keys-soap.com/keysblog/?p=359

I don't agree with him. I think we know far too little of the safety of nano-particles generally.

I think that with this uncertainty about the safety of nanoparticles coupled with the inferior protection of nano-sized zinc oxide in the long wavelength UVA range, it's probably prudent to try and use sunscreens with higher particle size.

Z-cote would seem to be a "safer" product to use? Since it is at the borderline/a little above the nano-size range.

[happy lemon]

Eva,

Olay has launched a new sunscreen which is watery & light.

Active ingredients are:

ETHYLHEXYL METHOXYCINNAMATE 9%

METHYLENE BIS-BENZOTRIAZOLYL TETRAMETHYLBUTYLPHENOL (Tinosorb M) 7%

BIS-ETHYLHEXYLOXYPHENOL METHOXYPHENYL TRIAZINE (Tinosorb S) 0.8%

What do you think?

Is this sunscreen better that physical sunscreen with 20% ZnO?

[Eva Victoria]

Eva,

Olay has launched a new sunscreen which is watery & light.

Active ingredients are:

ETHYLHEXYL METHOXYCINNAMATE 9%

METHYLENE BIS-BENZOTRIAZOLYL TETRAMETHYLBUTYLPHENOL (Tinosorb M) 7%

BIS-ETHYLHEXYLOXYPHENOL METHOXYPHENYL TRIAZINE (Tinosorb S) 0.8%

What do you think?

Is this sunscreen better that physical sunscreen with 20% ZnO?

I think it can be a good sunscreen. On measurements it comes out having higher UVA protection. And with 9% Tinosorb M it does actually covers the whole UVA spectrum.
So in this respect it is as good a sunscreen in the UVA range as 20% ZnO. In the UVB range of course it has higher values.
But I am sure this sunscreen is just as whitening as 20% ZnO (micro) is.
Do you have the rest of the ingredient list for this sunscreen? Is it labeled as SPF 50 (+)?

[happy lemon]

I have not bought it yet, so I don't have all the ingredients.

I tried to see if I could test the texture and consistency in the shop tonight, however, there was no tester for me to try.

From the internet and blogs; people comment that it is very clear and light.

No, it is only SPF 30 PA+++.

[happy lemon]

Eva,

What is your comment of Tinosorb S & M?

Are they photostable?

Will they be get absorbed into skin?

[chiaberry]

happy lemon: where is the new Olay sunscreen launched? The version of White Radiance sunscreen they have in my country presently is with avobenzone and octocrylene.

[happy lemon]

Chiaberry,

You can buy it in Taiwan China & Hong Kong. It is made in China.

around USD 17 per 40ml

[Eva Victoria]

Eva,

What is your comment of Tinosorb S & M?

Are they photostable?

Will they be get absorbed into skin?

They both are inherently photo-stable.

Tinosorb S is oil soluble and its only drawback is that it is difficult to dissolve hence using it in higher concentration would make a product very oily.
Usually it is used between 0.5-3%.
It can be absorbed by the upper layer of the skin.
It is also a very good photo stabilizer for not photo-stable UV filters like OMC and AVO.

Tinosorb M is water soluble (the only water soluble UVA filter!)
It is very easy to add to sunscreens esp. after the emulsification process. So it is very convenient to use. It does not get absorbed by the skin. It behaves like a physical sunscreen in this respect.
the only drawback is that it can be very whitening in higher concentrations, and since it is water soluble it can be drying if there is not enough oil added to the product. However it should not be a problem since most sunscreens need solvents which are oily to be able to be used in sunscreens.

[miklu]

Question: are product lines for men justified, or are they just marketing fluff to lure men into skin care? (Shaving creams and balms notwithstanding.)

That is, are there so large fundamental differences between male/female skin that they can't be encompassed with more conventional skin-typing systems (e.g., oily–dry and resistant–sensitive scales)?

Thanks in advance.

Edited by miklu, 16 April 2010 - 07:04 AM.

[Eva Victoria]

Question: are product lines for men justified, or are they just marketing fluff to lure men into skin care? (Shaving creams and balms notwithstanding.)

That is, are there so large fundamental differences between male/female skin that they can't be encompassed with more conventional skin-typing systems (e.g., oily–dry and resistant–sensitive scales)?

Thanks in advance.

Well, in my opinion it is more about packaging and marketing than real. Men's skin is thicker than women's and tend to produce more oil but products that are made for younger skin or oily/combo skin esp. for women can be just as well used by men. However, it is often that men don't like the same type of fragrances as products for women contain. fragrance free is definitely a better choice for your skin as well.
Unfortunately there are few products made for oilier skin with anti-aging benefits (though it is increasing). So there can be good choices for men who prefer this.

When it comes to shaving creams they are usually lighter than conventional moisturizers and contain alcohol for quicker apsorption and desinfection but in the same time it is more moisturizing than toners for women. This would be a challange to replace with a female product, I think.

[sdxl]

Tinosorb M is water soluble (the only water soluble UVA filter!)

No, it isn't. Tinosorb M is poorly soluble in water (< 10^-8 g/L). Even Tinosorb S has better solubility in water! Mexoryl SX and Neo Heliopan AP are completely water soluble at levels used in sunscreens and absorb UVA.