37 replies to this topic

[TheFountain]

I am guessing this is one of those 'gets worse before it gets better' symptoms typically associated with the first couple months of treatment. Seriously sometimes these almost crows feet formations last for up to two weeks at a time before fading then returning then fading again. I need to know if anyone else has experienced this with the use of tretinoin. I am wearing a sunscreen religiously, even when indoors, windows blocked, I work from home, am a nocturnal person so only go out at night. I am 24 and did not have these wrinkles prior to using tretinoin.

Edited by TheFountain, 13 May 2009 - 10:46 AM.

[Matt]

I've read about this happening to people who have used copper peptides around the eyes, they get fine lines showing up and then those that carry on they say that this goes away after a little while with continued use. If you look enough, don't freak people out though by staring You'll see a lot of 20 year olds have fine lines and the very early signs of crows feet.

Is it possible these lines have appeared from dryness? I have a couple fine lines that appear when around my eyes are dry.

[TheFountain]

I've read about this happening to people who have used copper peptides around the eyes, they get fine lines showing up and then those that carry on they say that this goes away after a little while with continued use. If you look enough, don't freak people out though by staring You'll see a lot of 20 year olds have fine lines and the very early signs of crows feet.

Is it possible these lines have appeared from dryness? I have a couple fine lines that appear when around my eyes are dry.

My thoughts exactly. As I mentioned in another recent post, the lines come, they peel then they 'seem' to fade away temporarily and then return temporarily again. But this latest one has lasted almost two weeks and had me slightly alarmed. I just needed to confirm whether or not it was one of the cited 'storm before the calm' symptoms. It got me wondering if the sunscreen I was using was complete garbage, but not likely since it has dermaplex technology in it and besides I spend 90% of my time indoors with blocked windows, even while working. Maybe our good friend eva can chime in on this.

Edited by TheFountain, 13 May 2009 - 12:15 PM.

[Skötkonung]

I have this problem was well and I attribute it to skin dryness. Over time, as your skin becomes tretinoin tolerant, the dryness becomes less severe. Moisturizing and exfoliation helps as well.

[HOTCells]

With 0.025% I don't get any, with 0.1% I get a sneak peek at what I could possibly look like in 30 more years.

[TheFountain]

With 0.025% I don't get any, with 0.1% I get a sneak peek at what I could possibly look like in 30 more years.

but it fades after you desist use of the stronger formula?

[TheFountain]

Where are all the tretinoin experts on this one? The only thing I get from dertmatologists is the robotic 'not suppose to use it around your eyes' answer. They all sound like machines.

[immortali457]

Where are all the tretinoin experts on this one? The only thing I get from dertmatologists is the robotic 'not suppose to use it around your eyes' answer. They all sound like machines.

I'm no expert on tretinoin but know it well and have used it for over 10 years. Never once had the issues you mentioned with wrinkles.
As to not using it around your eyes.......that's just horse dung....lol.........if ever there was a place you'd want to use it, it would be around the eyes.

[TheFountain]

Where are all the tretinoin experts on this one? The only thing I get from dertmatologists is the robotic 'not suppose to use it around your eyes' answer. They all sound like machines.

I'm no expert on tretinoin but know it well and have used it for over 10 years. Never once had the issues you mentioned with wrinkles.
As to not using it around your eyes.......that's just horse dung....lol.........if ever there was a place you'd want to use it, it would be around the eyes.

Well have you used 0.1% for extended periods or have you stuck with low dose formulas? I've been alternating between 0.05% and 0.1 for about 3 weeks now. have you ever experienced the kind of drying around the eyes which can be confused with wrinkles or enhanced laugh lines/crows feet?

[Mixter]

If you get wrinkles it is because of the desired effect: drastically drying and defatting your skin, with a delay of 1-4 days after usage.

So they are mainly appearance. But defatting skin will inevitable damage cell membranes. There's no research whether this just rejuvenates cells or also might cause long-term damage. I don't suppose so, but still don't overdo it, since at 0.1% Tretinoine is intended as a treatment, not cosmetic ingredient.

[TheFountain]

If you get wrinkles it is because of the desired effect: drastically drying and defatting your skin, with a delay of 1-4 days after usage.

So they are mainly appearance. But defatting skin will inevitable damage cell membranes. There's no research whether this just rejuvenates cells or also might cause long-term damage. I don't suppose so, but still don't overdo it, since at 0.1% Tretinoine is intended as a treatment, not cosmetic ingredient.

When you say they are mainly appearance do you mean to say they are temporary surface abnormalities that will fade in time?

[Eva Victoria]

Where are all the tretinoin experts on this one? The only thing I get from dertmatologists is the robotic 'not suppose to use it around your eyes' answer. They all sound like machines.

Tretinoin can indeed cause dryness esp. in areas that have naturally less sebaceous glands like around the eyes.
The lines are a result of skin dryness that can be easily treated with the application of a richer hydrating cream. When you get used to Tretinoin your skin will actually produce more moisture (not oil!) so it can rehydrate itself better and then those lines will not be visible. It can however take some time (even months).

[Mixter]

do you mean to say they are temporary surface abnormalities that will fade in time?

Yes, membranes = mostly fats/lipids. It's also where some of 'aging' damage accumulates, as oxidized lipids. Dry skin has surface abnormalities due to missing lipids and replenishes itself with the needed fats. But damage membranes too much and you'll damage the (skin stem-)cells.

[TheFountain]

Where are all the tretinoin experts on this one? The only thing I get from dertmatologists is the robotic 'not suppose to use it around your eyes' answer. They all sound like machines.

Tretinoin can indeed cause dryness esp. in areas that have naturally less sebaceous glands like around the eyes.
The lines are a result of skin dryness that can be easily treated with the application of a richer hydrating cream. When you get used to Tretinoin your skin will actually produce more moisture (not oil!) so it can rehydrate itself better and then those lines will not be visible. It can however take some time (even months).

Do you have any recommendation for a hydrating cream?

[Eva Victoria]

Where are all the tretinoin experts on this one? The only thing I get from dertmatologists is the robotic 'not suppose to use it around your eyes' answer. They all sound like machines.

Tretinoin can indeed cause dryness esp. in areas that have naturally less sebaceous glands like around the eyes.
The lines are a result of skin dryness that can be easily treated with the application of a richer hydrating cream. When you get used to Tretinoin your skin will actually produce more moisture (not oil!) so it can rehydrate itself better and then those lines will not be visible. It can however take some time (even months).

Do you have any recommendation for a hydrating cream?

Something light in consistency with a higher PH value (for not stinging the skin) without fragrance. Preferably a basic moisturizer from a pharmacy.

[TheFountain]

Where are all the tretinoin experts on this one? The only thing I get from dertmatologists is the robotic 'not suppose to use it around your eyes' answer. They all sound like machines.

Tretinoin can indeed cause dryness esp. in areas that have naturally less sebaceous glands like around the eyes.
The lines are a result of skin dryness that can be easily treated with the application of a richer hydrating cream. When you get used to Tretinoin your skin will actually produce more moisture (not oil!) so it can rehydrate itself better and then those lines will not be visible. It can however take some time (even months).

Do you have any recommendation for a hydrating cream?

Something light in consistency with a higher PH value (for not stinging the skin) without fragrance. Preferably a basic moisturizer from a pharmacy.

I've actually been using some organic stuff by daily essential. Basically a facial moisturizer wuth jojoba oil, aloe vera and a few other things. I wasn't sure if this was adequate but the temporary wrinkles seem to be subsiding.

[JBForrester]

Eva, what about peptides around the eyes? Should I treat it the same as tretinoin, i.e. using a rich moisturizing cream?

[sapentia]

I have used 0.05% tretinoin for several years as an anti-aging measure in conjunction with other things. For anti-aging purposes it isn't necessary or even advisable to apply daily; I apply every other or every third day depending on my schedule and always before bed as opposed to a morning application. I have never experienced the aforementioned wrinkling effect though I am in agreement that it is likely due to overdrying.

Something you may want to consider is the effects of a pillow pressing against your face for ~8 hours every night. This has been shown to create wrinkles on its own. I sleep with a specialty pillow designed to protect the susceptable areas of the face. The reason I even explored this particular avenue was seeing the subtle crows feet for the first time 3-4 years ago; I haven't seen them since. Mid 30's here btw.

[JBForrester]

Sapentia, what is the pillow? Do you have a link? I'd love to buy one.

[sapentia]

Sapentia, what is the pillow? Do you have a link? I'd love to buy one.

Just run a search for "save my face pillow" and you'll be set. If you sleep on your back it is uneccessary, but I am a side sleeper so it is very necessary.

[JBForrester]

Thank you, sapentia.

Out of curiosity, does anybody know how often and how long you have to use tretinoin to see results? I've been using .025% Renova every 4 days. It's almost like it's bringing out the big, deepset wrinkles underneath my top layer of skin. Once it does it's job, can I stop using it? Or will my skin go back to it's old self? Lastly, will it actually take years off me? I've heard no claims about this yet. I'm 26 and I'd love it if it took me back to looking 23.

[StephCThomp]

I'm 26 and I'd love it if it took me back to looking 23.

Sorry, that made me laugh in a fall off my chair kind of way. How sweet. I remember being 23, and 26. I now would be thrilled to appear to be either, but could not hope to tell the difference!

You are very, very young. 23, 26, same same - young. Go easy with harsh skin care products. Just take care of your skin preventatively rather than 'curatively' and in 20 years you'll be very glad you did. You will also have a little giggle at the memory of being aged 26 and wanting to look 23.

[JBForrester]

*blushing* : )

Finley, then are you saying that I shouldn't use retin-a? I spent a year in Australia and have nordic skin, and from what I understand I have sun damage... Hmm. I'm so conflicted as to what to do as I thought retin-a was indeed preventative...

[mustardseed41]

A retinoid will increase collagen synthesis and prevent skin aging by inhibiting MMPs like collagenase and elastase, enzymes that degrade support proteins in your skin. It will also brighten skin tone, clean out pores, prevent and treat acne and enhance hyaluronic acid synthesis that adds volume and hydration to firm skin. If that is not the description of a miracle cream then what is?

http://www.longecity...kincare-regime/

Edited by mustardseed41, 02 December 2012 - 02:40 PM.

[JBForrester]

A retinoid will increase collagen synthesis and prevent skin aging by inhibiting MMPs like collagenase and elastase, enzymes that degrade support proteins in your skin. It will also brighten skin tone, clean out pores, prevent and treat acne and enhance hyaluronic acid synthesis that adds volume and hydration to firm skin. If that is not the description of a miracle cream then what is?

http://www.longecity...kincare-regime/

Yes, but can it take off years? Make someone who looks 30 look 25? Or 26 look 20? Nobody seems to have made that claim yet nor have I seen any before after pictures that demonstrate someone looking "younger" in the after...

[mustardseed41]

A retinoid will increase collagen synthesis and prevent skin aging by inhibiting MMPs like collagenase and elastase, enzymes that degrade support proteins in your skin. It will also brighten skin tone, clean out pores, prevent and treat acne and enhance hyaluronic acid synthesis that adds volume and hydration to firm skin. If that is not the description of a miracle cream then what is?

http://www.longecity...kincare-regime/

Yes, but can it take off years? Make someone who looks 30 look 25? Or 26 look 20? Nobody seems to have made that claim yet nor have I seen any before after pictures that demonstrate someone looking "younger" in the after...

Tretinoin is usually hardly ever talked about in that fashion cause it does not need the hype that most BS products do that never work. Just use it correctly and be done with it. Hell your still a baby. At that age my skin looked like a baby's. It still basically does at 46.
Coming from a family with outstanding skin genes, I can promise you that genes play a huge roll.

Edited by mustardseed41, 02 December 2012 - 11:31 PM.

[niner]

Yes, but can it take off years? Make someone who looks 30 look 25? Or 26 look 20? Nobody seems to have made that claim yet nor have I seen any before after pictures that demonstrate someone looking "younger" in the after...

Tretinoin is usually hardly ever talked about in that fashion cause it does not need the hype that most BS products do that never work. Just use it correctly and be done with it. Hell your still a baby. At that age my skin looked like a baby's. It still basically does at 46.
Coming from a family with outstanding skin genes, I can promise you that genes play a huge roll.

But JB has Nordic skin and spent time in Australia. Presumably she's accrued some skin damage. Baby or not, she could still have damaged skin. I did at that age, as I dimly recall. I think that you gave a great description of tretinoin above, and I agree that it's amazing stuff. IF you can handle it, that is. I had some trouble with it, which seems to be more of a problem for light-complected types like myself and JB. I had a good experience with Retinaldehyde, which is sort of like "tretinoin-lite". After using it for some number of months, I probably could have switched to a low concentration of retin-a, but I got tired of the complicated skincare regimen and decided to simplify instead. JB, maybe you should look into Retrinal by Avene. That's the name of the retinaldehyde that I used. It's much more gentle than retinoic acid.

[JBForrester]

Niner, what about under the eyes? I've tried it there a while back and it seemed to have thinned that area and caused it to wrinkle. Now I have fine little wrinkles that I never had before right underneath my eye, i.e. the very top of the undereye skin. Will it actually take away years if I use it? Will it get me back to the way I was before so much damage happened (I didn't mention that I had major collagen depletion about 5 months ago from using Rogaine)? I would say that I look like a young looking 35 rather than a 26 year old that looks her age.

And I do have good genes. I was always, always told I looked much younger (I looked like I was still in high school after graduating from college, which is why nobody would take me seriously) and my mom looks roughly 10 year younger than her real age. But it seems that in a matter of months (I'm serious) after Rogaine, I went from looking about 20 to looking like I was 40. I would post pics to prove my point, but that would allow them to float around on the internet, which isn't my style. How could damage be so great in a matter of months that it would be permanent? Am I doomed to looking 20 years my senior the rest of my life?

http://www.longecity...on/#entry547649

Edited by JBForrester, 03 December 2012 - 07:25 AM.

[JBForrester]

Also, Niner, I have been recently using Renova .025%, which has been pretty gentle. I think it was when I used the drug store RoC retinol under my eyes that it did the damage. I'll look into the Retrinal by Avene for my face, thanks for the suggestion.

[happy lemon]

Some say that it is good for those who find Retin-A irritating or beginner.

2 strength;

ES = stronger

http://www.amazon.co...ica Tri-retinol

http://www.amazon.co...TF8&me=&seller=