45 replies to this topic

[niner]

Makes no sense.

Then read it again.

I think he got it the first time. You are making assertions that fly in the face of a large body of experimental work. Your assertions are based on an anecdote, your own parents, sample size n = 2. It's not that it doesn't make sense syntactically; I can parse it; it's just wrong.

[Taelr]

Yes I agree this example is small, but is somewhat based on other comments I have heard. Do you know of a study that does authoritatively show the ratio between genetics and diet and how it affects longevity?

I really hope you are wrong - I just do not want to give up my snickers bar diet. :-)

[kismet]

Actually, he's quite right in the great scheme of things. The 10-30 years we gain from a healthy life style (depending on how screwed up your baseline is) is nothing but pathetic, sure if you are dying (and we're all dying every second of the day) you do grasp at straws! There should be a sticky on every sub-forum reminding people that they're going to die, whether they take supplements, live a healthy life or not and nothing is going to save them if they don't start to actually support research.

Taelr, could you specify what you mean? Genetics can and do dictate your life, any number of polygenic/inherited diseases means a sure death sentence or shorter life. However, we can compare the influence of a healthy life style on a population level e.g. seventh day adventists or Okinawans vs the general population.

Edited by kismet, 08 June 2009 - 12:04 PM.

[imarobot]

As for sex drive and CR, it really changed much since I started CR. It's there, maybe not high like most males my age, but at 25 almost its definitely there alright and I have no doubt that it will stay good for longer

Does the composition of the CR diet affect sex drive more than the CR itself? For instance, would there be a difference in sex drive between a regular CR diet that was a few bags of potato chips and a regular CR diet that was fish and fresh veggies? Obviously, overall health is affected by diet, but I'm asking in particular about sex drive and diet before years of damage are done by a bad diet.

Edited by imarobot, 08 June 2009 - 04:45 PM.

[Taelr]

Kismet,

Taelr, could you specify what you mean? Genetics can and do dictate your life, any number of polygenic/inherited diseases means a sure death sentence or shorter life. However, we can compare the influence of a healthy life style on a population level e.g. seventh day adventists or Okinawans vs the general population.

Assumption: If we focus only on aging then we know that everyone is not equal, people age at very different rates. This personal rate appears to be determined genetically.

Given a reasonably healthy lifestyle (good food and exercise) I suggest that the genetically determined rate overwhelms anything we can do to adjust that rate significantly by the use of supplements. While reservatrol may well be the exception, it remains unproven in humans; however, I would class this supplement as the very thing we need to address – genes are the key. Most if not all other supplements appear to do no more than help address the health factor, and not specifically aging.

What I am challenging is the perception that health focused supplements provides any significant factor on longevity, at best I suggest their effects are marginal and we should not become distracted by the massive marketing we see for their claims.

In summary: A healthy lifestyle with supplements will not change your genetically determined aging rate, but will merely optimize it. But that underlying rate could still be in terms of decades between different people.

I’ll refer to the Maharishi again – he consumed many of the claimed life enhancing Vedic supplements as well as living a pure lifestyle envied by many of us. He only achieved 90. That does not bode well for a healthy lifestyle and health supplements as being major or key contributors to longevity. It was his genes that led to his death and he was powerless to change that. My parents had no such advantages and outlived him; again I propose it was a matter of genes: The overwhelming factor in longevity.

What I really want to achieve is an accurate perspective of how much genes, vs health supplements, vs exercise, etc have on longevity.

Edited by Taelr, 08 June 2009 - 05:26 PM.

[rhodeder]

Read over all the posts i guess i have good genes because my great grandpa lived past 100 but everyone since then has pretty much died from smoking or heart attacks because of there addictions or there need to eat big steaks. It is kind of depressing to think that our body is constantly deteriorating and we are all through the long process of dieing its a shame that humanity is not currently focused on the goal of improving ourselves and trying to find a new home for us and finding methods of transporting us there and terraforming technology. I think the main problem we aren't working at that is because we die so young and have to give all our learned knowledge to our kids who started from scratch then they are usually flooded with loopy religious dogma which makes them not worry about human survival. I personally believe technology wont progress that far that fast unless people like us step forward through advertising and marketing to address why antiaging research would benifit humanity so much. For example how much would a 900 year old scientist benifit in research than a 40 year old scientist. Everyone just wants there life to climax in the middle and would care less about everyone else or a big picture.

[miklu]

It would be most interesting to know the current state of the art interventions (lifestyle, nutrition, supplements, medication etc.) to each of the seven SENS components:

1) cancer-causing nuclear mutations/epimutations (OncoSENS),
2) mitochondrial mutations (MitoSENS),
3) intracellular junk (LysoSENS),
4) extracellular junk (AmyloSENS),
5) cell loss and atrophy (RepleniSENS),
6) cell senescence (ApoptoSENS), and
7) extracellular crosslinks (GlycoSENS).

For example, CR has been shown to delay aging, but which components of SENS does it act on?

[Mixter]

For example, CR has been shown to delay aging, but which components of SENS does it act on?

[+/-] cancer-causing nuclear mutations/epimutations (OncoSENS), -> less metabolic load -> less metabolic ROS, less DNA damage
[+] mitochondrial mutations (MitoSENS), -> less metabolic load -> less metabolic ROS, much less mtDNA damage
[+] intracellular junk (LysoSENS), -> less metabolic load -> less metabolic waste products, better enzyme efficiency
[+/-] extracellular junk (AmyloSENS), -> less intracellular junk to leak, higher immune function and cleanup in the ECM
[-] cell loss and atrophy (RepleniSENS), -> only indirectly, because most cell loss comes from damage via the other 6 types of damage
[+/-] cell senescence (ApoptoSENS), -> CR increases apoptosis as cells are more sensitive to signals
[+/-] extracellular crosslinks (GlycoSENS), -> less metabolic load -> less blood sugar / protein synthesis -> less crosslinks / misfolding
(Legend: + = yes, +/- = a litle, - = not directly)

Further, here is some simple prevention you could look at now (I estimate 5-10% efficiency compared to a first version of SENS treatments, which are aimed at reversing instead of preventing damage):

1) cancer-causing nuclear mutations/epimutations: prevent cancer (avoid sun, take vitamins/chlorophyllin with food, avoid alcohol/smoke/carcinogens), use apoptosis regulators like curcumine,
2) mitochondrial mutations (MitoSENS): resveratrol, alpha-lipoic-acid, acetyl-l-carnitine, avoid overeating, exercise (-> hormesis)
3) intracellular junk (LysoSENS): fasting/CR, losing weight/fat, avoid overeating, adequate vitamin intake (=supply cofactors for lysosomal hydrolases)
4) extracellular junk (AmyloSENS): keep immune system healthy, avoid overeating, avoid simple sugars/carbs, maybe avoid very high protein diets
5) cell loss and atrophy (RepleniSENS): avoid the other 6 damage types which lead to cell loss, lobby for stem cell research and tissue engineering
6) cell senescence (ApoptoSENS): avoid (cellular) stress, don't use apoptosis inducers (see 1) -- here it gets really tricky)
7) extracellular crosslinks (GlycoSENS): avoid glucose/sugars/simple carbs, glycation inhibitors (carnosine, B6, pyridoxamine, metformin, acarbose), AGE breakers (Alagebrium)
1-7) all go to http://www.sens.org and see how you can contribute

[Forever21]

Read over all the posts i guess i have good genes because my great grandpa lived past 100 but everyone since then has pretty much died from smoking or heart attacks because of there addictions or there need to eat big steaks. It is kind of depressing to think that our body is constantly deteriorating and we are all through the long process of dieing its a shame that humanity is not currently focused on the goal of improving ourselves and trying to find a new home for us and finding methods of transporting us there and terraforming technology. I think the main problem we aren't working at that is because we die so young and have to give all our learned knowledge to our kids who started from scratch then they are usually flooded with loopy religious dogma which makes them not worry about human survival. I personally believe technology wont progress that far that fast unless people like us step forward through advertising and marketing to address why antiaging research would benifit humanity so much. For example how much would a 900 year old scientist benifit in research than a 40 year old scientist. Everyone just wants there life to climax in the middle and would care less about everyone else or a big picture.

http://www.dump.com/...rged/space.html

[rhodeder]

http://www.dump.com/...rged/space.html

This is a cube of 6 billion light years.
http://www.projet-ho...a_web_final.mov

[VidX]

Wow I was going to ask if it's a good way to induce "hormesis" with smoking pot occasionally (like once a 5months) or not. and I open "lifestyle" and see topic "25 reasons to smoke weed" as a first one. Cool accident, or I'm just still high.

Edited by VidX, 13 June 2009 - 02:14 AM.

[rhodeder]

Wow I was going to ask if it's a good way to induce "hormesis" with smoking pot occasionally (like once a 5months) or not. and I open "lifestyle" and see topic "25 reasons to smoke weed" as a first one. Cool accident, or I'm just still high.

Read the posts after it. Lots of psychological side effects and physical side effects. I say this from getting my friends to admit there problems after i started to face the same problems and brought them up. Paranoia, Anxiety, Deteriorating memory and slow thinking.

[VidX]

Wow I was going to ask if it's a good way to induce "hormesis" with smoking pot occasionally (like once a 5months) or not. and I open "lifestyle" and see topic "25 reasons to smoke weed" as a first one. Cool accident, or I'm just still high.

Read the posts after it. Lots of psychological side effects and physical side effects. I say this from getting my friends to admit there problems after i started to face the same problems and brought them up. Paranoia, Anxiety, Deteriorating memory and slow thinking.

Yes, that's completely true. But I'm talking about "hormesis" - exposing your body to small radiation (or I guess - some other "damage") to activate protection mechanisms some more. I doubt there could be consequences like these mentioned with smoking it two time a year. The question is - is it "good" in aformentioned context..

[bacopa]

Instead of complaining, take action! Go to the project and teams thread in the forums and help out with one of the projects; or more!

[Mixter]

radiation

If you do a chernobyl vacation for life extension make sure to share it with us in a photo-blog.

Actually, the beneficial hormesis would mostly be the free radical exposure through aerobic exercise and resistance training, and maybe some sauna also for activating the heat shock genes and removing misfolded protein. Hormesis != radiation or drinking hydrogen peroxide

[rhodeder]

radiation

radiation or drinking hydrogen peroxide