64 replies to this topic

[Benae]

I make C serum fresh every morning. 1 Tablespoon distilled water (nook in glass container for 7 seconds). Add 1/4 tsp. (1,125 mg) NOW Ascorbic Acid Powder. Swirl around until dissolved. BAM...your done and pretty cost effective. I've been using this recipe for over a year. Does it make a difference? Did not hold back the wrinkles for me; however, I'll be 60 years old next month so you could say I got a late start and the damage was already done. Maybe when I'm 70, I'll have the face of a 60 year old. The serum did even out my skin tone. Honestly, I've noticed more wrinkles and sags since starting the C serum and Retin-A. Maybe it's because I'm always observing to see an improvement when in fact all that's happening is I'm seeing aging. I am 5'8", 140 lbs. and would like to lose 5 lbs. but I'm afraid my face will really cave in! Ideal body weight doesn't do much for the face when you get older. Guess a little fat would help plump up and fill in the gaps.

Barbara Benae

[Ghostrider]

@ happy lemon

ingredients:

distilled water 15g
ethoxydiglycol 6g (water miscible solvent for vitamin E)
propylene glycol 3g (solvent for ferulic acid)
ascorbic acid (ultrafine mesh) 4.5g
vitamin E (mixed tocopherols) 0.3g
ferulic acid 0.24g
NaH (sodium hyaluronate) 0.06g
panthenol 0.3g (moisturizing -very sticky stuff!)
preservative (I use Euxyl PE 9010) 0.21g
polysorbate 80 0.3g (emulsifier)
fragrance (I use grapefruit essential oil) a few drops to mask the smell of ethoxydiglycol

here's how I make it:

phase 1
Thoroughly mix the panthenol into the water. Sprinkle the NaH onto the panthenol/water mixture. Allow one hour to dissolve.

phase 2
Dissolve the ferulic acid in the propylene glycol. You will have to stir it a lot and/or apply gentle heat. Use a double boiler or similar set up.

phase 3
Add the vitamin E to the ethoxydigycol. Stir until properly blended.

Finally, add the ascorbic acid to the water phase, stir until completely dissolved. Combine the three phases, add the preservative, add the polysorbate 80 and stir vigorously applying gentle heat if necessary to properly homogenize the serum. Add the fragrance to your preference. If necessary filter through gauze or something similar to remove any globs of undissolved polysorbate 80. The yield should be around 30g, but may be a little less depending on the amount of mechanical loss incurred.

A final note: it is useful to have a scale with 0.01 gram precision such as this, as well as a number of inexpensive glass vessels (I found some cheap 50mL beakers at a local surplus store) and stirring rods, pipettes, etc...

Pizza, thanks for the recipe! Where did you get the ingredients?

Here's my locationCrafter shopping list:

Qty Item # Product Selected options Price Total
EDG-30 Ethoxydiglycol

30g (1.05 oz) - $1.95

$1.95 $1.95
PG-04 Propylene Glycol USP

4 oz - $2.50

$2.50 $2.50
ASCRBCUF-01 Ascorbic Acid, Ultrafine

1 oz - $3.95

$3.95 $3.95
VITE-02 Vitamin E Acetate

2 oz - $9.95

$9.95 $9.95
PAN-04 dl-Panthenol

4 oz - $7.50

$7.50 $7.50
POLY80-04 Polysorbate 80
Quantity:
4.5 oz - $3.75

$3.75 $3.75

Came to around $35 including shipping.

I can't find the NaH (sodium hyaluronate), Euxyl PE 9010, and I assume dl-Panthenol is the same as the panthenol you used. Anyone know of a one-stop shop for all these ingredients? Shipping costs add up. How important is the NaH, Euxyl PE 9010, and the ferulic acid? What type of place would carry this locally? Look in the yellow pages under "Chemical supply"?

[pizzatheorem]

Instead of Euxyl PE 9010, you could use one of the optiphens that LC sells; a preservative will discourage growth of bacteria etc... The NaH is probably ok to omit but you really ought to include ferulic acid as it stabilizes the tocopherols and ascorbic acid and doubles the photoprotective effect versus C+E alone. You can get a little container of it on ebay last I checked. I personally use d-panthenol but the dl should partially convert to the biologically useful B5 as well as provide some moisturizing. Another benefit of the racemate is it's a powder and therefore much easier to weigh.

[happy lemon]

Hi Pizzatheorem,

If I can use up 30ml of Vit C serum (with 50% of water) which is stored in refrigerator in 30 days, can I omit preservatives?

[pizzatheorem]

I'm not totally sure but I have read that you need to mix a fresh batch every week if you skip the preservative, even with refrigeration. I'm sure there is some flexibility in that though. I'm in the better safe than sorry camp on this one though, especially considering how cheap preservatives are.

[Ghostrider]

I am thinking about adding in some resveratrol or renovage into pizzatheorem's recipe. I supplement 200-400 mg resveratrol daily. Would adding this ingredient help my skin considering that I already take it as a supplement. Also, any research on renovage? Should it be added?

[Ghostrider]

I ended up ordering all the ingredients above along with the Renovage. How much Renovage should I add to the formula above? Also, how should I store the ingredients until my next batch?

[immortali457]

I ended up ordering all the ingredients above along with the Renovage. How much Renovage should I add to the formula above? Also, how should I store the ingredients until my next batch?

I'd just stick to the recipe as is. Why mess with it. Use the Renovage after the C serum (20 minutes later) if you'd like.. What exactly is so special about Renovage? What are the active ingredients? Store the ingredients in the fridge.

[Ghostrider]

I ended up ordering all the ingredients above along with the Renovage. How much Renovage should I add to the formula above? Also, how should I store the ingredients until my next batch?

I'd just stick to the recipe as is. Why mess with it. Use the Renovage after the C serum (20 minutes later) if you'd like.. What exactly is so special about Renovage? What are the active ingredients? Store the ingredients in the fridge.

http://www.lotioncra...m/renovage.html
Clinically proven to improve the various manifestations associated with skin aging in mature skin, Renovage™ visibly reduces the appearance of fine lines, wrinkles, sun spots, large pores and skin redness, increases the skin's natural moisture content and barrier function, and enhances skin's overall firmness, tone and elasticity, while restoring the skin's overall texture.

Renovage™ provides anti-ageing and a protective effect against stress, by telomere stabilization and DNA maintenance (cell division). If offers improvement of tissue quality by optimal cell interactions (cell communication) and assists with rebalance of cell functions (metabolism). Be delaying senescence, Renovage™ can extend cell lifespan by one third.

Sounds pretty good. Using the ingredients above, do you know of a recipe for making a seperate batch of Renovage to be added after applying the Vitamin C Serum? Thought it would be easiest to add the Renovage into the C Serum.

[VesperLynd]

found this interesting message on Truth In Aging:

Dear Editor,

I found your 4 part series educational and interesting however i disagree with some of your conclusions.

Firstly, L-ascorbic acid (AA) is very irritating to many people and highly unstable often becoming pro-oxidant long before a colour change. Even when stabilised with ferulic acid, the drop in activity halves in two weeks after first use according to studies performed by my professor at our institution. We use four free-radical assays to measure activity.

Second you state that ascorbyl isotetrapalmitate and tetrahexadecyl ascorbate as separate molecules. they are infact the same chemical. There is a great deal of evidense supporting the use of this derivative in place of AA. Only the other day (March 2009) there was another study from a major journal (Journal of Cell Biochemistry) which proved the greater effectveness of tetrahexadecyl ascorbate over AA. They found “Administration with VC-IP of 10-50 microM to human fibroblasts NHDF achieved the enhancement of collagen synthesis, repression of matrix metalloprotease-2/9 activity, and increasing of intracellular Asc contents more markedly than that with Asc itself of the same concentrations.” See the link here for yourself: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19165821
and another study published in another reputable journal - the Journal of Dermatological Science showed similar findings in 2006:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....ogdbfrom=pubmed

Further, Sodium Ascorbyl Phosphate shows hormesis at varying concentrations and we have results to show that less can acheive more quenching activity. I am surprised you do not mention antioxidant hormesis on your site at all.

Lastly, your article does not explain the problem with antioxidant interactions. As was shown on the infamous BBC Horizon documentary, the pot-pourri of many great-sounding formulae often have little activity because of interative neutralisation. Therefore if I were recommending formulae to anyone, i would first suggest they ask the manufacturer if there has been any trials performed on the FINISHED product (not the ingredients individually). I know there is one company who does this (i forget the name but they have a product called Firewall which was on the documentary).
Great site - keep it going.

April 8th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
Sarah
I was reading the above. The BBC documentary was just shown in Australia. The product Firewall which won is by an English cosmeceutical company called Medik8 (www.medik8.co.uk). It is separated in two parts which react together apparently which is why it is so good. I use the C-tetra product they produce as it is cheaper and virtually the same thing according to the trials I have read about. This is also tetrahexadecyl ascorbate. I have to say it’s all very confusing. Wish the BBC documentary explained it all as it leaves you with as many questions as answers. The most interesting thing was they stuff like zelens and prevage to be quite low potency for the money.

[immortali457]

My "Truth in Aging" is that both vitamin C E Ferulic acid and tretinoin have worked wonders to my skin.

[kismet]

found this interesting message on Truth In Aging:

Dear Editor,

I found your 4 part series educational and interesting however i disagree with some of your conclusions.

Firstly, L-ascorbic acid (AA) is very irritating to many people [not mentioned there, but hopefully common knowledge to our readers] and highly unstable often becoming pro-oxidant long before a colour change. Even when stabilised with ferulic acid, the drop in activity halves in two weeks after first use according to studies performed by my professor at our institution. We use four free-radical assays to measure activity.
How do we interpret those results? If it lost half of it's activity, does this mean the remaining AA, etc is now oxidised/pro-oxidant and can be expected to possibly damage the skin? How much efficacy does it need to lose before it starts to be dangerous and not just useless?

Lastly, your article does not explain the problem with antioxidant interactions. As was shown on the infamous BBC Horizon documentary, the pot-pourri of many great-sounding formulae often have little activity because of interative neutralisation. Therefore if I were recommending formulae to anyone, i would first suggest they ask the manufacturer if there has been any trials performed on the FINISHED product (not the ingredients individually). I know there is one company who does this (i forget the name but they have a product called Firewall which was on the documentary).
Great site - keep it going.
I was of the opinion that the skinceuticals studies tested the finished product. Didn't they?

[happy lemon]

Just wanted to let you guys know that I had been making DIY CE Ferulic serum since late May and made a 3rd batch few days ago based on this recipe (I've to thank for Kassy_A of EDS to share us with her great work; I have modified a bit of her recipe, like the percentage & omitting glycerin - I found it quite sticky & greasy in my 2nd batch; worst still my skin is quite oily & it is summer).

1 tsp L-Ascorbic Acid 15.1%
3 tsp Distilled H2O 45.3%
1 tsp SKB 15.1%
1/4 tsp Ferulic Acid 3.8%
1 tsp vodka 15.1%
1/8 tsp Vitamin E 1.9%
1/4 tsp Hyaluronic Acid Serum 3.8%

Total 6.625 mil 100%

Though Skinceuticals uses propylene glycol, I use vodka as Kassy suggested (because I worry the negative effect of this solvent as I mentioned in my previous post) which can dissolve ferulic acid within minutes.

Also, I don't use preservative at all.

In fact, I both made a phone call & sent a mail including the said recipe to Schülke & Mayr GmbH, the manufacturer of preservative Euxyl which was mentioned at BulkActives, to seek advice if preservative would be a must. The answer was "......the stability has to be checked in a challange test (see enclosure). The production has to follow GIMP standard. A theoretical answer is not serious."

Have I noticed any positive effects since using this low cost DIY serum? The answer is yes, I am seeing, my skin is clear and less pigmented around my undereye (due to overexposure to sun for years without sunglasses + sunscreen); also my cheeks are firmer & plumpy (I hope that this serum is building the collagen).

In the first month, I used the serum in both am & pm but saw it dried my skin, so I used it in the am only since then.

I use it quite generously & put it in a cobalt blue glass bottle & store it in the fridge.

Edited by happy lemon, 01 August 2009 - 02:22 PM.

[immortali457]

Just wanted to let you guys know that I had been making DIY CE Ferulic serum since late May and made a 3rd batch few days ago based on this recipe (I've to thank for Kassy_A of EDS to share us with her great work; I have modified a bit of her recipe, like the percentage & omitting glycerin - I found it quite sticky & greasy in my 2nd batch; worst still my skin is quite oily & it is summer).

1 tsp L-Ascorbic Acid 15.1%
3 tsp Distilled H2O 45.3%
1 tsp SKB 15.1%
1/4 tsp Ferulic Acid 3.8%
1 tsp vodka 15.1%
1/8 tsp Vitamin E 1.9%
1/4 tsp Hyaluronic Acid Serum 3.8%

Total 6.625 mil 100%

Though Skinceuticals uses propylene glycol, I use vodka as Kassy suggested (because I worry the negative effect of this solvent as I mentioned in my previous post) which can dissolve ferulic acid within minutes.

Also, I don't use preservative at all.

In fact, I both made a phone call & sent a mail including the said recipe to Schülke & Mayr GmbH, the manufacturer of preservative Euxyl which was mentioned at BulkActives, to seek advice if preservative would be a must. The answer was "......the stability has to be checked in a challange test (see enclosure). The production has to follow GIMP standard. A theoretical answer is not serious."

Have I noticed any positive effects since using this low cost DIY serum? The answer is yes, I am seeing, my skin is clear and less pigmented around my undereye (due to overexposure to sun for years without sunglasses + sunscreen); also my cheeks are firmer & plumpy (I hope that this serum is building the collagen).

In the first month, I used the serum in both am & pm but saw it dried my skin, so I used it in the am only since then.

I use it quite generously & put it in a cobalt blue glass bottle & store it in the fridge.

I've made this recipe before. Turned out well. I now use another formula.

[happy lemon]

I've made this recipe before. Turned out well. I now use another formula.

Hey, may you share yours with me? Please!!!

[Eva Victoria]

Just wanted to let you guys know that I had been making DIY CE Ferulic serum since late May and made a 3rd batch few days ago based on this recipe (I've to thank for Kassy_A of EDS to share us with her great work; I have modified a bit of her recipe, like the percentage & omitting glycerin - I found it quite sticky & greasy in my 2nd batch; worst still my skin is quite oily & it is summer).

1 tsp L-Ascorbic Acid 15.1%
3 tsp Distilled H2O 45.3%
1 tsp SKB 15.1%
1/4 tsp Ferulic Acid 3.8%
1 tsp vodka 15.1%
1/8 tsp Vitamin E 1.9%
1/4 tsp Hyaluronic Acid Serum 3.8%

Total 6.625 mil 100%

Though Skinceuticals uses propylene glycol, I use vodka as Kassy suggested (because I worry the negative effect of this solvent as I mentioned in my previous post) which can dissolve ferulic acid within minutes.

Also, I don't use preservative at all.

In fact, I both made a phone call & sent a mail including the said recipe to Schülke & Mayr GmbH, the manufacturer of preservative Euxyl which was mentioned at BulkActives, to seek advice if preservative would be a must. The answer was "......the stability has to be checked in a challange test (see enclosure). The production has to follow GIMP standard. A theoretical answer is not serious."

Have I noticed any positive effects since using this low cost DIY serum? The answer is yes, I am seeing, my skin is clear and less pigmented around my undereye (due to overexposure to sun for years without sunglasses + sunscreen); also my cheeks are firmer & plumpy (I hope that this serum is building the collagen).

In the first month, I used the serum in both am & pm but saw it dried my skin, so I used it in the am only since then.

I use it quite generously & put it in a cobalt blue glass bottle & store it in the fridge.

L-Ascorbic Acid 15.1%
Distilled H2O 45.3%
SKB 15.1%
Ferulic Acid 3.8%
vodka 15.1%
Vitamin E 1.9%
Hyaluronic Acid Serum 3.8%

I would like to comment on this formulation.
The % of all ingredients seem to be awfully high!
You can risk of over doing good and poisoning skin cells. The aim is to make them function more like new, young cells.

The second thought I have is what is alcohol need for in a formulation like this? You definitely don't need it as a solvent for any of the ingredients. It will only make skin drier.
Hyaluronic Acid should be used above PH 5.5 otherwise it will crystallize. This formulation should be around PH 3 to have any effect of the Ascorbic Acid (which in itself is in the acidic PH BTW).
Vitamin E should be around 0.5-1% (Tocepheryl Acetate).
I would also have the Ascorbic Acid around 10% to begin with.

What is SKB for?

And what preservative do you use? (Unless this mix is used up within a week?)
If you cannot use Hyaluronic Acid because of pertisipation what other humectant can you use?

I think these questions should be answered correctly before anyone blindly starts making this formula.

[happy lemon]

Hi Eva,

Your comments scared me; but definitely I'd love to get your advice (as I have just found that my skin has started burning in the past 2 days).

Is burning a sign of skin cell poisoning? If so, any way to fix it (apart from stop using it)?

As I mentioned, vodka was used to replace propylene glycol to dissolve ferulic acid.

SKB stands for Sea Kelp Bioferment & is to emulsify Vit E.

There is no preservative in the recipe. Also, Schülke & Mayr GmbH, the manufacturer of preservative, also replied to me there was no need to use any.

I know you are making your own; may you share me your recipe?


Here are the details of the process of making this serum ( I found no crystallization of Hyaluronic Acid Serum).



Water Phase:
In glass #1 put the ethanol +ferulic acid Stir frequently. It can take up to 30
minutes to *fully* dissolve. Then mix the LAA with the water and add to the
ferulic acid mixture. Mix in the HA drop by drop patiently to avoid forming
globs.

Oil Phase:
Mix the remaining ingredients in glass #2 mixing the vit E well with the SKB to
emulsify it. When the contents of glass #1 have fully dissolved, combine both,
stir well - don't skrimp on any of the steps, make sure each addition is fully
dissolved before incorporating another - and put in your 1oz bottle.. Give it a
good shake, and store in fridge or in a cool, dark place.. Shake a bit before
use

[Eva Victoria]

Hi Eva,

Your comments scared me; but definitely I'd love to get your advice (as I have just found that my skin has started burning in the past 2 days).

Is burning a sign of skin cell poisoning? If so, any way to fix it (apart from stop using it)?

As I mentioned, vodka was used to replace propylene glycol to dissolve ferulic acid.

SKB stands for Sea Kelp Bioferment & is to emulsify Vit E.

There is no preservative in the recipe. Also, Schülke & Mayr GmbH, the manufacturer of preservative, also replied to me there was no need to use any.

I know you are making your own; may you share me your recipe?


Here are the details of the process of making this serum ( I found no crystallization of Hyaluronic Acid Serum).



Water Phase:
In glass #1 put the ethanol +ferulic acid Stir frequently. It can take up to 30
minutes to *fully* dissolve. Then mix the LAA with the water and add to the
ferulic acid mixture. Mix in the HA drop by drop patiently to avoid forming
globs.

Oil Phase:
Mix the remaining ingredients in glass #2 mixing the vit E well with the SKB to
emulsify it. When the contents of glass #1 have fully dissolved, combine both,
stir well - don't skrimp on any of the steps, make sure each addition is fully
dissolved before incorporating another - and put in your 1oz bottle.. Give it a
good shake, and store in fridge or in a cool, dark place.. Shake a bit before
use

Please see my answer in blue.

Your comments scared me; but definitely I'd love to get your advice (as I have just found that my skin has started burning in the past 2 days).

I did not want to scare you.

Is burning a sign of skin cell poisoning? If so, any way to fix it (apart from stop using it)?

It can mean that your skin does not like it, it might be too strong and irritating. You should definitely decrease the actives in this serum.

As I mentioned, vodka was used to replace propylene glycol to dissolve ferulic acid.

I see. If you use Propylene Glycol to dissolve Ferulic Acid then you can heat the mixture and cut back time used for dissolving it. Otherwise you can heat the alcoholic solution to 30C to quicken the process. I'll also come back to PG at the end.

SKB stands for Sea Kelp Bioferment & is to emulsify Vit E.

Sea Kelp Bioferment is a very good way to hydrate your skin, it is stable at PH 3 and it'll give your formulation a cosmetically elegant appearance as well

There is no preservative in the recipe. Also, Schülke & Mayr GmbH, the manufacturer of preservative, also replied to me there was no need to use any.

True in the case of using 15% Propylene Glycol! It has antimicrobial properties.

I know you are making your own; may you share me your recipe?

I'll have to think about that But i might make a topic about how you guys can make your own products generally


Here are the details of the process of making this serum ( I found no crystallization of Hyaluronic Acid Serum).



Water Phase:
In glass #1 put the ethanol +ferulic acid Stir frequently. It can take up to 30
minutes to *fully* dissolve. Then mix the LAA with the water and add to the
ferulic acid mixture. Mix in the HA drop by drop patiently to avoid forming
globs.

Oil Phase:
Mix the remaining ingredients in glass #2 mixing the vit E well with the SKB to
emulsify it. When the contents of glass #1 have fully dissolved, combine both,
stir well - don't skrimp on any of the steps, make sure each addition is fully
dissolved before incorporating another - and put in your 1oz bottle.. Give it a
good shake, and store in fridge or in a cool, dark place.. Shake a bit before
use

This is interesting. Sea Kelp Bioferment is a water phase ingredient so what does it do in the oil phase?
I would put this serum together a bit differently, but we all do things differently, aren't we?

[happy lemon]

I know you are making your own; may you share me your recipe?

I'll have to think about that But i might make a topic about how you guys can make your own products generally

Oh, yes!

The Sooner The Better!!!

Again........please!

[mrpopeil]

I've made this recipe before. Turned out well. I now use another formula.

Hey, may you share yours with me? Please!!!

I'd be interested in this as well. (and any other details, this serum recipe thing is new to me - looking for a moisturizer not necessarily anti-aging recipe )

Edited by mrpopeil, 11 August 2009 - 06:18 AM.

[metameta]

Hi everyone,

I decided to start making my own topical ascorbic acid as well, so I bought some pure crystalline ascorbic acid (ph 2.1).

What I've been doing so far (it's only been two days) is basically dumping 1/4 of a teaspoon of the powder into a bowl, adding enough water to dissolve it (maybe a tablespoon or two), and putting the contents on my face using my hands. I use all of it, but obviously not all of the acid stays on my face (it drips off).

It stings quite a bit for a couple of minutes, and then the stinging is minimal. I then add some 4% AHA lotion to my face, which brings back the stinging, but only a bit.

I have a few questions:

1. Do you think I should be making a weaker solution? I can deal with the initial burning, but I just want to make sure it doesn't mean the solution is too strong. I think I may have burned some skin where my nose meets my cheek as I accidentally got some un-dissolved crystals there, but that seems avoidable.

2. Can ascorbic acid cause your sweat to smell weird? I use my hands to apply the stuff, and now I've noticed that my hands constantly have this 'broth' odor to them whenever they sweat. I can't tell for sure if washing them heavily will get rid of the odor completely, so I haven't ruled out the possibility of something systemic causing the odor. The only other recent change that I can think of is that I've started taking 30k IU of vitamin D3 for a while to get my levels up. I know some of you have mentioned a 'hot dog' odor from the serums, but I thought that might be due to other ingredients.

3. The first time I left the acid on my lips along with my face, which seemed fine until the next morning. When I woke up it looked like I had been drinking wine the night before (slight darker patches), and I realized it was what looked like charring. That layer of skin came off with no trauma, but now I make sure to clean the acid off of my lips after application. The question is: Will the collagen benefits still apply to my lips if I'm not applying the acid to them directly? I assume since this is long term and working with deeper tissues that the collagen benefits aren't completely localized where the acid is applied.

I know this is a long post, so thanks in advance for reading it!
(Also, this is my first post!)

[okok]

A little bit off topic, but i didn't want to open a new thread. I'm a bit hesitant to use creams containing sugar/fructose/honey. Might it induce glycation? Anyone knowledgeable?

[immortali457]

A little bit off topic, but i didn't want to open a new thread. I'm a bit hesitant to use creams containing sugar/fructose/honey. Might it induce glycation? Anyone knowledgeable?

I dont see how.

[immortali457]

Hi everyone,

I decided to start making my own topical ascorbic acid as well, so I bought some pure crystalline ascorbic acid (ph 2.1).

What I've been doing so far (it's only been two days) is basically dumping 1/4 of a teaspoon of the powder into a bowl, adding enough water to dissolve it (maybe a tablespoon or two), and putting the contents on my face using my hands. I use all of it, but obviously not all of the acid stays on my face (it drips off).

It stings quite a bit for a couple of minutes, and then the stinging is minimal. I then add some 4% AHA lotion to my face, which brings back the stinging, but only a bit.

I have a few questions:

1. Do you think I should be making a weaker solution? I can deal with the initial burning, but I just want to make sure it doesn't mean the solution is too strong. I think I may have burned some skin where my nose meets my cheek as I accidentally got some un-dissolved crystals there, but that seems avoidable.

2. Can ascorbic acid cause your sweat to smell weird? I use my hands to apply the stuff, and now I've noticed that my hands constantly have this 'broth' odor to them whenever they sweat. I can't tell for sure if washing them heavily will get rid of the odor completely, so I haven't ruled out the possibility of something systemic causing the odor. The only other recent change that I can think of is that I've started taking 30k IU of vitamin D3 for a while to get my levels up. I know some of you have mentioned a 'hot dog' odor from the serums, but I thought that might be due to other ingredients.

3. The first time I left the acid on my lips along with my face, which seemed fine until the next morning. When I woke up it looked like I had been drinking wine the night before (slight darker patches), and I realized it was what looked like charring. That layer of skin came off with no trauma, but now I make sure to clean the acid off of my lips after application. The question is: Will the collagen benefits still apply to my lips if I'm not applying the acid to them directly? I assume since this is long term and working with deeper tissues that the collagen benefits aren't completely localized where the acid is applied.

I know this is a long post, so thanks in advance for reading it!
(Also, this is my first post!)

I highly doubt your C serum is penetrating deep enough to have any effect on collagen production, etc.
Might be a good exfoliator. Better to make a recipe similar to the ones mentioned earlier.

[metameta]

I highly doubt your C serum is penetrating deep enough to have any effect on collagen production, etc.
Might be a good exfoliator. Better to make a recipe similar to the ones mentioned earlier.

I was basing this off of Fredrik's and Benae's simple recipes. I didn't think the other ingredients were as essential for the collagen production effects. If this solution won't work for that, then I probably won't bother using it anymore (which is a shame since I've barely used any of the bottle). I'd just rather not spend all the time to make a complicated concoction, or the money to purchase the Skinceuticals etc.

Also, I didn't use my hands to apply the C today, and they don't have the broth smell anymore. I guess that answers one of my questions at least!

Any more feedback? I'd like to make this work for me if possible.

[nancyd]

Any more feedback? I'd like to make this work for me if possible.

Maybe someone will correct this if it's wrong, but I think if you just add propylene glycol to your mix it will penetrate the ascorbic acid into the skin.

Edited by nancyd, 16 August 2009 - 10:19 PM.

[immortali457]

Any more feedback? I'd like to make this work for me if possible.

Maybe someone will correct this if it's wrong, but I think if you just add propylene glycol to your mix it will penetrate the ascorbic acid into the skin.

Yes that's what Skinceuticals CE Ferulic uses. Lactic acid as another good option.

[zorba990]

Try using magnesium ascorbyl phosphate instead of ascorbic acid and it
will be less stingy IME. I put MAP in everything now, my shampoo, skin
lotions, etc. Even considering eating it...

[metameta]

At first I thought zorba might have thought I was looking for an exfoliant rather than something to increase collagen production, but then I looked up "magnesium ascorbyl phosphate" myself.

I found this article:
http://www.smartskin.../vitcderiv.html

Does anyone have any input regarding these vitamin c derivatives? The claim is that they might be superior to ascorbic acid in various ways. Perhaps this could be like the transition from vitamin A to retinoids?

From the article (it discusses two such derivatives):
"Magnesuim ascorbyl phosphate is a water-soluble derivative of vitamin C rapidly gaining popularity in skin care. It is nonirritating and more stable than vitamin C. Most importantly, magnesuim ascorbyl phosphate appears to have the same potential as vitamin C to boost skin collagen synthesis but is effective in significantly lower concentrations. Overall, magnesuim ascorbyl phosphate appears to be a better choice than vitamin C for people with sensitive skin and those wishing to avoid any concomitant exfoliating effects."

Also, I'm considering the propylene glycol, but I'm surprised my sensitive skin is handling the ascorbic acid, so I'm cautious about adding something else that could potentially irritate.

[peridot]

Also, I'm considering the propylene glycol, but I'm surprised my sensitive skin is handling the ascorbic acid, so I'm cautious about adding something else that could potentially irritate.

Another penetration enhancer to consider would be ethanol, which may be easier to obtain than propylene glycol (just add vodka). For some people ethanol may be drying or irritating, but it works for many.