50 replies to this topic

[sUper GeNius]

I'm so glad to see this thread because I've been searching for days on any information about giving resveratrol to pets. My 16-year old cat Bootsie has been diagnosed with malignant salivary gland cancer and the vet did not recommend surgery and chemotherapy. She did, however, prescribe prednisone to reduce the tumor's inflammation.

The vet offers little hope for sweet Bootsie, who also has hyperthyroidism, which has been treated for years with methimasol.

I decided to start giving Bootsie resveratrol after the vet said she didn't think it would do any harm. The problem is how to administer it. She won't take a capsule and it's too big anyway so at first I mixed some Country Life Resveratrol that I purchased at Whole Foods into her methimasol.

The problem with this method is there are still small particles of knotweed in the mixture and they clog the catridge that I use to give her medicine orally. Also, she fights this medicine with tooth and claw, literally.

Right after I started giving Boots resveratrol (and I have no idea just how much she's actually absorbing -- she tends to keep a lot in her mouth which comes out as really messy saliva strings after I dose her), she perked up, started eating a lot and was jumping around like a kitten. I'm not sure the resveratrol is responsible for Boots' temporary revival because I also started her on the prednisone at the same time.

Now, however, about ten days on the resveratrol/prednisone, she sleeps all day long and tends to hide herself under furniture. She looks good, has gained a lot of weight (she needed to gain weight), eats a lot and gets a spurt of energy if she smells a turkey sandwich. Her coat is glossy.

I think the tumor, which is very palpable, has shrunk a little bit, although it's hard to tell and again the prednisone is probably responsible for that.

I started to step up her dosage yesterday by giving her 300 mg of a mixture of water and Country Life reservatrol once per day, and I also have it mixed in with her methimasol. Again, I don't know how much she's actually getting.

I ordered Longevinex and it arrived in the mail today. It may be a superior alternative to the Country Life supplement so I'm going to mix two caplets in water and give her this mixture tonight.

She has shown no ill side effects from the Resveratrol -- her digestion and urination seem to be normal.

If anyone has any advice at all on how I can give Bootsie her dose (forget mixing it in with her food -- her salivary gland tumor makes eating anything aside from Gerber's baby food difficult and she's a picky cat anyway when it comes to food) or just how much I should give her, please let me know.

If you do a search here you'll find that much of the resveratrol bought in stores, (including Longevinex, I believe,) is a 50% concentration, with the other 50% containg a whole lot of emodin, a laxative found in plants. I'd buy some of the 98% mixes.

[CynthiaB]

If you do a search here you'll find that much of the resveratrol bought in stores, (including Longevinex, I believe,) is a 50% concentration, with the other 50% containg a whole lot of emodin, a laxative found in plants. I'd buy some of the 98% mixes.
[/quote]

Believe it or not none of my three cats ate the sardines I put out, Bootsie included. So, I'm back to giving her an oral solution -- I fear that my forcing the solution into her mouth causes her pain because she fights so hard. Plus, it dribbles out of her mouth in saliva strings so I know she's not getting all of it.

Two questions: how long does it take for the resveratrol to start showing positive changes, if any? Also, what's the best source for buying the 98% mixes or the ingredients for the 98% mixes?

Thanks for all your help.

[npc3]

I'm really interested in giving this to my cat for kidney disease, so keep us updated on your experience. I think your problem is your cat smells the res powder/pill, my cats react the same way, we can't smell it but even in sardines they know something is wrong with it. I'm not sure if they make an odorless and tasteless powder you can mix into her food? I've had to find powders like this in place of giving my cats pills. Some compounding pharmacies can do it... If I find anything I'll let you know. I'm new to all this myself..

[bluemoon]

If you do a search here you'll find that much of the resveratrol bought in stores, (including Longevinex, I believe,) is a 50% concentration, with the other 50% containg a whole lot of emodin, a laxative found in plants. I'd buy some of the 98% mixes.

Longevinix doesn't contain emodin. It is a blend of resveratrol, quercetin and IP6. This is the brand that the U of Wisconsin researcher interviewed on 60 Minutes was giving mice. On a Longevinex commercial (google) he says it seems like there is a synergy among the three compounds. Longevinex is micronized and someone posted on another thread that it is now 86%, not 50%, but I don't know.

I think in your case because your dog is small, I'd stick with Longevinex or find out how much of the three to give buy separately and mix in order to save money. (I assume mixing the three would be as effective, but I don't know that for sure.)

I think if I had a larger dog with cancer I'd give the first 500mg or so in Longevinex and if you wanted to give a full gram or more, add 500mg (or more) of 98% resv.

Edited by Holmes, 09 July 2009 - 11:57 PM.

[missminni]

Longevinix doesn't contain emodin. It is a blend of resveratrol, quercetin and IP6. This is the brand that the U of Wisconsin researcher interviewed on 60 Minutes was giving mice. On a Longevinex commercial (google) he says it seems like there is a synergy among the three compounds. Longevinex is micronized and someone posted on another thread that it is now 86%, not 50%, but I don't know.

I think in your case because your dog is small, I'd stick with Longevinex or find out how much of the three to give buy separately and mix in order to save money. (I assume mixing the three would be as effective, but I don't know that for sure.)

I think if I had a larger dog with cancer I'd give the first 500mg or so in Longevinex and if you wanted to give a full gram or more, add 500mg (or more) of 98% resv.

I have a large dog (95 lb) who was diagnosed with terminal cancer and 6 months to live, and gave her the 98% pure resveratrol at the rate of 7 grams a day (and sometimes more). That would be about 73 mg per pound. I successfully cured her of cancer with that amount. I don't think 500mg
would work unless the dog weighed 6 lbs. Success is totally dose dependent.

[bluemoon]

I have a large dog (95 lb) who was diagnosed with terminal cancer and 6 months to live, and gave her the 98% pure resveratrol at the rate of 7 grams a day (and sometimes more). That would be about 73 mg per pound. I successfully cured her of cancer with that amount. I don't think 500mg
would work unless the dog weighed 6 lbs. Success is totally dose dependent.

If it worked it worked, but I'm curious how you decided 7g and not 3g or 5g. (I'm also curious how much SRT501 is being given to the cancer patients in Sirtris' trial and what that might translate to with regular res)

By the way, did you keep track of how long it took the tumor to shrink to half and then to nothing?

[maxwatt]

Longevinix doesn't contain emodin. It is a blend of resveratrol, quercetin and IP6. This is the brand that the U of Wisconsin researcher interviewed on 60 Minutes was giving mice. On a Longevinex commercial (google) he says it seems like there is a synergy among the three compounds. Longevinex is micronized and someone posted on another thread that it is now 86%, not 50%, but I don't know.

I think in your case because your dog is small, I'd stick with Longevinex or find out how much of the three to give buy separately and mix in order to save money. (I assume mixing the three would be as effective, but I don't know that for sure.)

I think if I had a larger dog with cancer I'd give the first 500mg or so in Longevinex and if you wanted to give a full gram or more, add 500mg (or more) of 98% resv.

Quite right, Long. switched to 98% pure resveratrol in their caps months ago: little or no emodin. But we do not know how ferulic acid in the product will specifically affect canines, though we have reason to believe it should be avoided: ferulic acid augments angiogenesis, which would stimulate tumor growth.

Nutr Biochem. 2009 May 12. [Epub ahead of print]
Ferulic acid augments angiogenesis via VEGF, PDGF and HIF-1alpha.

Lin CM, Chiu JH, Wu IH, Wang BW, Pan CM, Chen YH.
Department of Emergency Medicine, Shin Kong Wu Ho-Su Memorial Hospital, Taipei, Taiwan; College of Medicine, Taipei Medical University, Taipei, Taiwan; Institute of Traditional Medicine, School of Medicine, National Yang-Ming University, Taipei, Taiwan.
Therapeutic angiogenesis is critical to wound healing and ischemic diseases such as myocardial infarction and stroke. For development of therapeutic agents, a search for new angiogenic agents is the key. Ferulic acid, a phytochemical found in many fruits and vegetables, exhibits a broad range of therapeutic effects on human diseases, including diabetes and cancer. This study investigated the augmenting effect of ferulic acid on angiogenesis through functional modulation of endothelial cells. Through endothelial cell migration and tube formation assays, ferulic acid (10(-6)-10(-4) M) was found to induce significant angiogenesis in human umbilical vein endothelial cells (HUVECs) in vitro without cytotoxicity. With chorioallantoic membrane assay, ferulic acid (10(-6)-10(-5) M) was also found to promote neovascularization in vivo. Using Western blot analysis and quantitative real-time polymerase chain reaction, we found that ferulic acid increased vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF) and platelet-derived growth factor (PDGF) expression in HUVECs. Furthermore, the amounts of hypoxic-induced factor (HIF) 1alpha mRNA and protein, the major regulator of VEGF and PDGF, also showed up-regulation by ferulic acid. Electrophoretic migration shift assay showed that the binding activity of HIF-1alpha was also enhanced with ferulic acid treatment of HUVECs. Moreover, inhibitors of extracellular-signal-regulated kinase 1/2 and phosphoinositide-3 kinase (PI3K) abolished the binding activity of HIF-1alpha and the subsequent activation of VEGF and PDGF production by ferulic acid. Thus, both mitogen-activated protein kinase and PI3K pathways were involved in the angiogenic effects of ferulic acid. Taken together, ferulic acid serves as an angiogenic agent to augment angiogenesis both in vitro and in vivo. This effect might be observed through the modulation of VEGF, PDGF and HIF-1alpha.
PMID: 19443196

Better, I think, to stick to 98% resveratrol for most cancers. It should be odorless and tasteless enough to mix with a food your beast likes.

However, with kidney failure I do not know if resveratrol will help. It has been beneficial in a rat model of kidney failure, and so might well help:

Ren Fail. 2006;28(2):161-9.
Protective effect of resveratrol, a polyphenolic phytoalexin on glycerol-induced acute renal failure in rat kidney.

Chander V, Chopra K.
Pharmacology Division, University Institute of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Panjab University, Chandigarh, India. chandervikas2004@yahoo.co.uk
Rhabdomyolysis-induced myoglobinuric acute renal failure (ARF) accounts for about 10% to 40% of all cases of ARF. Reactive oxygen intermediates have been demonstrated to play an etiologic role in myoglobinuric renal failure. This study was designed to investigate the effect of resveratrol, a polyphenolic phytoalexin in glycerol-induced ARF in rats. Seven groups of rats were employed in this study, group I served as control; group II was given 50% glycerol (8 mL/kg, intramuscularly); groups III IV, and V were given glycerol plus resveratrol (2 mg/kg, 5 mg/kg, and 10 mg/kg p.o. route, respectively) 60 min prior to the glycerol injection; group VI received L-NAME (10 mg/kg, i.p.) along with glycerol and resveratrol (5 mg/kg), group VII animals received L-NAME (10 mg/kg) 30 min prior to glycerol administration. Renal injury was assessed by measuring plasma creatinine, blood urea nitrogen, creatinine, and urea clearance. The oxidative stress was measured by renal malondialdehyde levels and reduced glutathione levels, and by enzymatic activity of catalase, glutathione reductase, and superoxide dismutase. Tissue and urine nitrite levels were measured as an index of total nitric oxide levels. Glycero treatment resulted in a marked decrease in tissue and urine nitric oxide levels, renal oxidative stress, and significantly deranged the renal functions along with deterioration of renal morphology. Pre treatment of animals with resveratrol (5 and 10 mg/kg) 60 min prior to glycerol injection markedly attenuated the fall in nitric oxide levels, renal dysfunction, morphologic alterations, reduced elevated thiobarbituric acid reacting substances, and restored the depleted renal antioxidant enzymes. This protection afforded by resveratrol was significantly reversed by cotreatment of L-NAME along with resveratrol, clearly indicating that resveratrol exerts its protective effect through nitric oxide release along with the antioxidative effect in glycerol-induced ARF.
PMID: 16538975

Edited by maxwatt, 10 July 2009 - 02:27 AM.

[bluemoon]

Quite right, Long. switched to 98% pure resveratrol in their caps months ago: little or no emodin. But we do not know how ferulic acid in the product will specifically affect canines, though we have reason to believe it should be avoided: ferulic acid augments angiogenesis, which would stimulate tumor growth.

But is there enough in Longy to be a real risk? I don't think Sinclair would subject himself to that. And the U of Wisconsin researcher did use Longevinex in a rat study for whatever reason, not just resveratrol alone.

Better, I think, to stick to 98% resveratrol for most cancers. It should be odorless and tasteless enough to mix with a food your beast likes.

which cancers? tumors? I think it is a major clue that SRT501, a blend of resveratrol among two or three(?) other compounds is being used in the cancer study. Do you know if there are any cancer studies with 1 or 2 grams of just 98% resv? Seems like there should be some out there. You, niner and others have been on top of studies. There were anecdotes of a couple of people with MM taking over 2 grams (I think one was an elderly scientist taking Longy --not sure how much, and the other a middle aged woman taking Biovita -- she was taking 2.5g) and she said that she outlived her prognosis of MM (not sure how they are today), yet there is a lot of variance with survivability of many cancers, so unfortuntately it doesnt say much. Pretty sure Sardi just said he was still alive at the time, not that he outlived the prognosis. Can't remember that case.

You might be correct that just taking 98% is enough, but I don't know how we know that yet. The best evidence is with the dog that was likely cured with a lot of 98% resv. Another dog didn't survive, though.

Edited by Holmes, 10 July 2009 - 03:53 AM.

[maxwatt]

But is there enough in Longy to be a real risk? I don't think Sinclair would subject himself to that. And the U of Wisconsin researcher did use Longevinex in a rat study for whatever reason, not just resveratrol alone.

Sinclair's usage ended before Longevinex 3 came out, so he never took the ferulic acid version. Though Long. doesn't state amounts as a propetary formula they are not required too, in Poland no such nonsense is allowed. A Polish forum contributor gave the contents from a label of the Longev. sold in Poland. I would characterize it as ferulic acid, followed by over 200 mg quercetin, and 100 mg resveratrol. If you want to know exactly, google the forums for us.

which cancers? tumors? I think it is a major clue that SRT501, a blend of resveratrol among two or three(?) other compounds is being used in the cancer study. Do you know if there are any cancer studies with 1 or 2 grams of just 98% resv? Seems like there should be some out there. You, niner and others have been on top of studies. There were anecdotes of a couple of people with MM taking over 2 grams (I think one was an elderly scientist taking Longy --not sure how much, and the other a middle aged woman taking Biovita -- she was taking 2.5g) and she said that she outlived her prognosis of MM (not sure how they are today), yet there is a lot of variance with survivability of many cancers, so unfortuntately it doesnt say much. Pretty sure Sardi just said he was still alive at the time, not that he outlived the prognosis. Can't remember that case.

You might be correct that just taking 98% is enough, but I don't know how we know that yet. The best evidence is with the dog that was likely cured with a lot of 98% resv. Another dog didn't survive, though.

Resveratrol s not effective against lymphomas, though it does not aggravate them. Resveratrol increases the effectiveness of Cisplatin, a mainstay of chemotherapy for cancer.(The NIA is doing another study with resveratrol and genetically mixed mice.) It has proven effective agains mammary cancers; studies raising questions that it might aggravate it were based on conclusions that were not warranted from study results; I explained some of them, more than once, in the breast cancer topic tw months ago.

missminni's dog had mammary cancer. The dog that died had a cancer that was much further developed, to the point of visible deformity, which may well have been too late.

But back to my original point: ferulic acid is bad news if you have a tumor, the amounts in Long. exceed dietary amounts, it is bad advice to suggest it for any cancer.

[missminni]

If it worked it worked, but I'm curious how you decided 7g and not 3g or 5g. (I'm also curious how much SRT501 is being given to the cancer patients in Sirtris' trial and what that might translate to with regular res)

By the way, did you keep track of how long it took the tumor to shrink to half and then to nothing?

I used the ratio used in an experiment I read about it that I can't remember now.
Her tumors were surgically removed prior to finding out they were cancer.
That was determined by biopsy of them and her lymph nodes and a few mammary glands that were also removed.
My friends dogs tumor was half the original size in 6 weeks and gone totally by three months.

[bluemoon]

A Polish forum contributor gave the contents from a label of the Longev. sold in Poland. I would characterize it as ferulic acid, followed by over 200 mg quercetin, and 100 mg resveratrol. If you want to know exactly, google the forums for us.

huh? You say that Longevinex is "ferulic acid followed by over 200 mg quercetin, and 100 mg resveratrol," yet you don't even remember the amount of ferulic acid??

[maxwatt]

huh? You say that Longevinex is "ferulic acid followed by over 200 mg quercetin, and 100 mg resveratrol," yet you don't even remember the amount of ferulic acid??

I said that off th top of my head, no, I only emember it was far and away the major ingredient. I also said that if you are curious, you can google this form to find the post. I am busy right now.

But back to my original point: ferulic acid is bad news if you have a tumor, the amounts in Long. exceed dietary amounts, it is bad advice to suggest it for any cancer.

[bluemoon]

This is from Wikipedia:

Animal studies and in vitro studies suggest that ferulic acid may have direct antitumor activity against breast cancer ^[2] and liver cancer ^[3]. Ferulic acid may have pro-apoptotic effects in cancer cells, thereby leading to their destruction ^[3]. Ferulic acid may be effective at preventing cancer induced by exposure to the carcinogenic compounds benzopyrene ^[4] and 4-nitroquinoline 1-oxide ^[5]. Note that these are not randomized controlled trials done with human participants, and therefore, the results of these studies may not be directly applicable to human use.

[maxwatt]

This is from Wikipedia:

Animal studies and in vitro studies suggest that ferulic acid may have direct antitumor activity against breast cancer ^[2] and liver cancer ^[3]. Ferulic acid may have pro-apoptotic effects in cancer cells, thereby leading to their destruction ^[3]. Ferulic acid may be effective at preventing cancer induced by exposure to the carcinogenic compounds benzopyrene ^[4] and 4-nitroquinoline 1-oxide ^[5]. Note that these are not randomized controlled trials done with human participants, and therefore, the results of these studies may not be directly applicable to human use.

My daughter gives any paper using Wikipedia as a reference with a failing grade....

Action on cells in a petri dish is a basis for further investigation, not for drawing conclusions. However, stimulating VEGF and angiogenesis would improve blood supply and hence nutrients to any tumor, once it is established. I repeat my point: due to the angiogenesis stimulating properties of ferulic acid, using it once a tumor is established is a bad idea.

[bluemoon]

My daughter gives any paper using Wikipedia as a reference with a failing grade....

cut the crap. what is wrong with what is on there?

Action on cells in a petri dish is a basis for further investigation, not for drawing conclusions. However, stimulating VEGF and angiogenesis would improve blood supply and hence nutrients to any tumor, once it is established. I repeat my point: due to the angiogenesis stimulating properties of ferulic acid, using it once a tumor is established is a bad idea.

so you are saying that a high intake of fruits and vegetables might be a carcinogenic concern as well? There is no evidence in any animal model that ferulic acid is a tumor promoting agent nor any evidence that it is carcinogenic in cell culture.

Edited by Holmes, 11 July 2009 - 01:36 PM.

[missminni]

cut the crap. what is wrong with what is on there?

By their own description...
Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit.
Since wikipedia can be edited by anybody information they give is often biased
and not always reliable.

[maxwatt]

cut the crap. what is wrong with what is on there?




so you are saying that a high intake of fruits and vegetables might be a carcinogenic concern as well? There is no evidence in any animal model that ferulic acid is a tumor promoting agent nor any evidence that it is carcinogenic in cell culture.

A straw man argument is a rhetorical device that is a logical fallacy, because it misrepresents a position in order to easily seem to disprove it. Fruits and vegetables contain minute amounts of ferulic acid; this has nothing to do with what i wrote. In higher concentrations as occur in some supplements, it is capable of stimulating angiogenesis, which is known to speed the growth of tumors. Inhibiting angiogneesis is the mechanism of many cancer treatments, in order to starve the tumor. Ferulic acid may just possibly prevent initiation of some cancers under some conditions, but I've seen no studies in animal models showing this to be the case. Advising the use of ferulic acid where there is a known tumor is bad advice.

[bluemoon]

OK, I'll put it in bold:

Animal studies and in vitro studies suggest that ferulic acid may have direct antitumor activity against breast cancer ^[2] and liver cancer ^[3]. Ferulic acid may have pro-apoptotic effects in cancer cells, thereby leading to their destruction ^[3]. Ferulic acid may be effective at preventing cancer induced by exposure to the carcinogenic compounds benzopyrene ^[4] and 4-nitroquinoline 1-oxide ^[5].


Is there anything wrong with the above? Why would ferulic acid have "direct antitumor activity"?
It also looks like it might help to prevent cancer as well.

Edited by Holmes, 11 July 2009 - 11:42 PM.

[bluemoon]

A non-wiki quick search:


Ferulic acid seems to protect against cancer, bone degeneration, menopausal symptoms (hot flushes). Like many other antioxidants, ferulic acid reduces the level of cholesterol and triglyceride, thereby reducing the risk of hearth disease. Ferulic acid seems to reduce the risk of many cancers, including cancer of the stomach, colon, breast, prostate, liver, lung and tongue.

(I'm still curious about ferulic acid possibly having "direct antitumor activty against breast and liver cancer")



http://www.phytochem...erulic-acid.php

[maxwatt]

A non-wiki quick search:


Ferulic acid seems to protect against cancer, bone degeneration, menopausal symptoms (hot flushes). Like many other antioxidants, ferulic acid reduces the level of cholesterol and triglyceride, thereby reducing the risk of hearth disease. Ferulic acid seems to reduce the risk of many cancers, including cancer of the stomach, colon, breast, prostate, liver, lung and tongue.

(I'm still curious about ferulic acid possibly having "direct antitumor activty against breast and liver cancer")



http://www.phytochem...erulic-acid.php

That is a biased source, sponsored as it is by the phytochemical industry. No definitive statements are made, claims are qualified with "may", "seems" , etc. But as it has been shown to stimulate angiogenesis, it is bad advice to recommend using it to attempt to tread pre-existing tumors.

[bluemoon]

That is a biased source, sponsored as it is by the phytochemical industry. No definitive statements are made, claims are qualified with "may", "seems" , etc. But as it has been shown to stimulate angiogenesis, it is bad advice to recommend using it to attempt to tread pre-existing tumors.

Sheesh. OK, so what is wrong with the wikipedia entry that discusses it may be antitumor
against breast and liver cancer?

And I looked up the Poland label you mentioned, but couldnt find that. Can tell us how much furulic acid is in there?

[missminni]

Sheesh. OK, so what is wrong with the wikipedia entry that discusses it may be antitumor
against breast and liver cancer?

And I looked up the Poland label you mentioned, but couldnt find that. Can tell us how much furulic acid is in there?

Excuse me for butting in, but I think the fact that it has been shown to stimulate angiogenesis makes it dangerous
to use if their are tumors present since that would encourage tumor growth by increasing blood supply to the tumor.
Also, the operative word in the wikipedia entry is may be.

[bluemoon]

Excuse me for butting in, but I think the fact that it has been shown to stimulate angiogenesis makes it dangerous
to use if their are tumors present since that would encourage tumor growth by increasing blood supply to the tumor.

With due respect, you have no idea. Nor does maxwatt, who won't comment on the wikipedia entry.

Also, the operative word in the wikipedia entry is may be.

OK, here are the studies that the wikipedia entry refers to suggesting that "ferulic acid may have direct antitumor activity against breast cancer and liver cancer" maxwatt still hasn't linked to how much is in longeinex either. I did email the "top scientist" at a top research center, and he says maxwatt's argument is ridiculous. I don't know much about biochem, so just reporting. If someone or their dog has a tumor, then stay away from longuercetexx. I don't care. But I'd personally take some to cover my bases and then add just resveratrol.

• ^a Antiproliferative and apoptotic effects of selective phenolic acids on T47D human breast cancer cells: potential mechanisms of action. Breast Cancer Res. 2004; 6(2: R63-74. Epub 2003 Dec 15; PubMed Full text at PMC: 14979919
• ^{a b} Role of NADPH oxidase-mediated generation of reactive oxygen species in the mechanism of apoptosis induced by phenolic acids in HepG2 human hepatoma cells. Arch Pharm Res. 2005 Oct; 28(10): 1183-9; PubMed

Edited by maxwatt, 14 July 2009 - 10:12 PM.

[maxwatt]

With due respect, you have no idea. Nor does maxwatt, who won't comment on the wikipedia entry.




OK, here are the studies that the wikipedia entry refers to suggesting that "ferulic acid may have direct antitumor activity against breast cancer and liver cancer" maxwatt still hasn't linked to how much is in longeinex either. I did email the "top scientist" at a top research center, and he says maxwatt's argument is ridiculous. I don't know much about biochem, so just reporting. If someone or their dog has a tumor, then stay away from longevinex. I don't care. But I'd personally take some to cover my bases and then add just resveratrol.

• ^a Antiproliferative and apoptotic effects of selective phenolic acids on T47D human breast cancer cells: potential mechanisms of action. Breast Cancer Res. 2004; 6(2: R63-74. Epub 2003 Dec 15; PubMed Full text at PMC: 14979919
• ^{a b} Role of NADPH oxidase-mediated generation of reactive oxygen species in the mechanism of apoptosis induced by phenolic acids in HepG2 human hepatoma cells. Arch Pharm Res. 2005 Oct; 28(10): 1183-9; PubMed

The first link doesn't work, but the second is an in vitro test on HepG2 (Human hepatocellular liver carcinoma cell line). Does not extrapolate to in vivo human use, and the concentrations used are likely not achievable in blood serum.

I did find the paper for the first link, this time it is T47D human breast cancer cells the used, and the same remarks apply. If you had carefully read my post, said that such in vitro studies cannot be extrapolated to human therapies. But we do know from other studies that ferulic acid induces angiogenesis. What part of this do you not understand? Angiogenesis is the mechanism that feeds tumors and allows them to grow and proliferate. Recomending a product containing ferulic acid in the case of a pre-existing tumor is very bad advice.

[bluemoon]

The first link doesn't work, but the second is an in vitro test on HepG2 (Human hepatocellular liver carcinoma cell line). Does not extrapolate to in vivo human use, and the concentrations used are likely not achievable in blood serum.

I did find the paper for the first link, this time it is T47D human breast cancer cells the used, and the same remarks apply. If you had carefully read my post, said that such in vitro studies cannot be extrapolated to human therapies. But we do know from other studies that ferulic acid induces angiogenesis. What part of this do you not understand? Angiogenesis is the mechanism that feeds tumors and allows them to grow and proliferate. Recomending a product containing ferulic acid in the case of a pre-existing tumor is very bad advice.

I'm saying that it looks more complicated. I don't see any animal study that shows ferulic acid promotes existing tumor growth.

You told me to look up how much of it is in Longy, and I tried but couldn't find it. Can you provide the link where that was discussed?

[maxwatt]

I'm saying that it looks more complicated. I don't see any animal study that shows ferulic acid promotes existing tumor growth.

You told me to look up how much of it is in Longy, and I tried but couldn't find it. Can you provide the link where that was discussed?

topic=27382&; it was Sweden, not Poland, where the labeling requirements were stricter.

Ferulic acid was found to induce angiogensis (formation of new blood vessels, basically) in a culture of human endothelial cells via VEGF (PMID: 19443196). Angiogenesis is known to be necessary or tumor growth, and to stimulate it.

Recommending ferulic acid where there is an existing cancer is bad advice.

[bluemoon]

topic=27382&; it was Sweden, not Poland, where the labeling requirements were stricter.


Recommending ferulic acid where there is an existing cancer is bad advice.

First, I'm not giving advice, although if I or a pet had cancer I'd try high dosages of resv and cover my bases by going up to 500mg of longev. Second, for breast and liver cancer, it looks like it helps, not hurts. Of course, it is still unknown.

Third, OK, your memory was off --Sweden and not Poland, but where in that post does it say anything about the amount of ferulic acid in longevinex?

Finally, why isn't anyone trying a study of giving 2g or 5g of resveratrol to cancer patients? To my knowledge, Glaxo's SRT501 is the only drug in trials, and that is a blend -- not just pure resv. One would think if it had potential there would be a trial almost 3 years after 98% pure resv became available. Seems odd.

Edited by Holmes, 13 July 2009 - 04:18 AM.

[maxwatt]

First, I'm not giving advice, although if I or a pet had cancer I'd try high dosages of resv and cover my bases by going up to 500mg of longev. Second, for breast and liver cancer, it looks like it helps, not hurts. Of course, it is still unknown.

Third, OK, your memory was off --Sweden and not Poland, but where in that post does it say anything about the amount of ferulic acid in longeivnex?

Finally, why isn't anyone trying a study of giving 2g or 5g of resveratrol to cancer patients? To my knowledge, Glaxo's SRT501 is the only drug in trials, and that is a blend -- not just pure resv. One would think if it had potential there would be a trial almost 3 years after 98% pure resv became available. Seems odd.

Recommending Longevixne for a pet with cancer is to recommend a supplement containing ferulic acid.
Recommending ferulic acid to a is to recommend an angiogenesis agonist.
Recommending an angiogenesis agonist for cancer is to recommend an agent that promotes tumor growth.
Therefor to recommend L., which contains ferulic acid, for cancer, is bad advice.

Especially as there are so many other things that show anti-cancer action without stimulating angiogenesis.

SRT501 is not a blend, it is resveratrol. The additional ingredients are there as dispersants and anti-gelling agents, to increase blood serum levels at a given dose. This is common practice for many drugs and medicines.

Ferulic acid is a by-product of processing rice bran, and the rice processors seem to have gone to great lengths to find a use for it so they can sell it instead of throwing it away. It might even prove useful for athletes trying to improve anaerobic performance of their muscles via angiogenesis, but I know of no specific studies. But to recommend ferulic acid for cancer as you have again just done is to give very bad advice.

[bluemoon]

SRT501 is not a blend, it is resveratrol. The additional ingredients are there as dispersants and anti-gelling agents, to increase blood serum levels at a given dose. This is common practice for many drugs and medicines.

No, SRT501 is absolutely not just resveratrol. I read one estimate by a biochemist commenting on "in the pipeline" blog that of the 2.5g used for the diabetes study, probably only 700mg was resveratrol.

That means 75% was not resveratrol. If resveratrol is so great alone, then once again,
why are no cancer studies using higher dosages like 2g or 5 g of just resv?

Minni cured her dog of cancer, yet the scientists yawn. why?

And once again you dont say how much ferulic acid is in longeivnex.
Why can't you tell us? It isn't a state secret, right? Please, back up your earlier claim.

Edited by Holmes, 13 July 2009 - 12:29 PM.

[maxwatt]

No, SRT501 is absolutely not just resveratrol. I read one estimate by a biochemist commenting on "in the pipeline" blog that of the 2.5g used for the diabetes study, probably only 700mg was resveratrol.

That means 75% was not resveratrol. If resveratrol is so great alone, then once again,
why are no cancer studies using higher dosages like 2g or 5 g of just resv?

Minni cured her dog of cancer, yet the scientists yawn. why?

And once again you dont say how much ferulic acid is in longeivnex.
Why can't you tell us? It isn't a state secret, right? Please, back up your earlier claim.

This is incorrect. Sinclair himself was quoted to say SRT501 is resveratrol. It is micronized and combined with HPMC and DOSS according to Sirtris patents which I've previously provided links to.

There are many ongoing studies of resveratrol vis a vis cancer. Human trials require careful review before they are allowed, but they are coming.

Longseterap's website lists ingredients as resveratrol 100 mg, quercetin 150 mg, rice bran, vitamin D3, and ferulic acid. Why don't you ask them how much? They've changed their formulation several times in the last few years, you need to find the current formulation from them. That it contains ferulic acid is not in question. We do know that it contains ferulic acid, they say so themselves. Recommending ferulic acid which stimulates angiogenesis for a case of existing cancer is extremely bad advice. You have done this explicitly in at least two posts. You keep raising side issues to attempt to obscure this fact, but the fact remains: you are giving very bad advice.