70 replies to this topic

[TheFountain]

So that means (*pokes TheFountain*) that imminst men are not afraid of being womanly, they are just acting the way they supposed to due to something more complex like hormones and neural structures..

So what are you saying, I am gay and I don't realize it simply because I like to have hair on my head and wear make up? Then kindly explain why my girlfriend turns me on every night?

Men are men, women are women, trust me saying I know women DO NOT want to cross the line over the men side when it comes to look.. I find it fitting that men do not want to cross the line to the women's side.

There is no 'womans side' with regard to how we dress and present ourselves on the outside. Look through history, the use of make up actually began with men in ancient egypt and other similar cultures. It has nothing to do with specific secoondary sexual characteristics and everything to do with cultural conditioning.

Btw, while many people do see hair as a feminine thing, as far as I know men, this is not the reason the cut it, most men I know for some reason inheritly don't want it to grow and I have no explanation for that, perhaps it's related to child psychology and social environment while growing, rather than thinking "it looks feminine"

Men throughout history had long hair. It is only in the past hundred or so years that the shaved head thing came about. Again to understate the role culture has to do with this development is ridiculous. No matter how you lace it, if you're a guy and you shave your head chances are you're weak minded and easily influenced by your immediate environment with regard to what is expected of you. There is nothing 'inherent' about it other than their inherent weak mindedness and fear of being percieved as gay, which probably means they are more gay than guys who have no fear of being perceived that way. Women know this and secretly laugh at such bafoons. At least in my circle they do. In conclusion long hair is neither masculine nor feminine it is simply natural to let ones hair grow. Cutting it is a cultural thing.

While most women I know wouldn't cut their hair because they like their hair, not because they think it's manly to cut it.

There is also no masculine nor feminine with regard to short hair. I have seen many beautiful women with short hair cuts and it did not harm their appearance of femininity at all.

So what I mean is, I think men act like men because they are men, not because they don't want to be girls.
And same goes for the other side.

And what about men like me, jared leto, Gerard way and a whole large group out there who do not 'act' like what you define as masculine? Are we gay and just do not realize it?

Your post should have consisted merely of 'I agree with what every guy here said, accept the fountain, he is gay'. I can't believe how incredibly weak minded this post is. ugh

Thank goodness my girlfriend isn't as weak minded or 'feminine' as you. Note the sarcasm. She is probably more naturally feminine than most weak minded puppets out there who just conform to what is expected of them. Their cultural idiocy is appalling.

Edited by TheFountain, 10 September 2009 - 06:48 PM.

[Luna]

Have you noticed how every post of yours is an attack?

I have never even thought you are gay just because you are doing things differently.
All I was trying to say is that I don't think men are trying to act up to stereotypes because they are afraid to be seen as gays but rather they grow or wired into it in some way.

Seriously, and what is it with trying to make me feel inferior in any way? I'm a geek, not Aphrodite, I barely even have a life.

I am not just the typical person you are used to handling with and stop feeling threatened by me because I am not threatening you.

I have quite a bit of male friends with long hair as well as shaved hair, I don't see any of them gay or masculine, personally I think long hair can look great on men.

And by women cutting their hair, I meant shaved, at high school I had a classmate who did that, I didn't think it is masculine nor did I condemn her socially because of this.

You are so biased in the sense you believe everyone is pointing at you and saying something that when someone tells you things entirely different you can't notice it and start attacking them.

And please do not try to insult me without even knowing me, that's rather pathetic.
If you do want to get to know me so you can insult me better or anything, feel free to add me on MSN.

[TheFountain]

Have you noticed how every post of yours is an attack?

Maybe you and other's are taking it that way because I am questioning something that you are not, or perhaps feel is not necessary to question? Just a thought.

All I was trying to say is that I don't think men are trying to act up to stereotypes because they are afraid to be seen as gays but rather they grow or wired into it in some way.

If by 'wired' you mean conditioned, then I concur. But if by 'wired' you are referring to some inherent biological trait I disagree because there is too much evidence in history of men wearing make up and wigs and things like that.

Seriously, and what is it with trying to make me feel inferior in any way? I'm a geek, not Aphrodite, I barely even have a life.

I was not trying to make you feel inferior, I was simply trying to point that that I didn't think you were defending both sides equally. At least in that post.

I am not just the typical person you are used to handling with and stop feeling threatened by me because I am not threatening you.

Not sure where you get that I feel threatened. I do become defensive over things that people claim are inherent genetic traits when history proves otherwise.

And please do not try to insult me without even knowing me, that's rather pathetic.
If you do want to get to know me so you can insult me better or anything, feel free to add me on MSN.

You can send it to me in a private message if you wish.

[Luna]

I did say it could be child psychology and environment as they grow, did I not? it's more like the biological tenancy to go to a certain direction.
Like researchers show testosterone levels are linked to risks taking and sports and then society enhances that.

Boys grow up, they tend to want to be like other men, they look how men around them behave and that is why different cultures can have men dressing and behaving different.

But if you are in a place when culture divided to feminine and masculine in some way, you'd find it appropriate for a member of specific gender to follow their gender, not because they think it's masculine/feminine to do it or the other way but rather because they feel alike.

As for trying to make me seem inferior,
"Thank goodness my girlfriend isn't as weak minded or 'feminine' as you. Note the sarcasm. She is probably more naturally feminine than most weak minded puppets out there who just conform to what is expected of them. Their cultural idiocy is appalling. "

As I said, you just seem to attack others, show you and your rules and society are somehow superior to others.
Personally, I like a good discussion, even an argument, I don't like it when it becomes personal, I am not even going to bother explaining why I don't like it when it becomes personal.
Trust me that I don't feel threatened by your girlfriend nor do I feel any competition between us. Or would I care at all.

Edited by Luna, 10 September 2009 - 08:13 PM.

[Skötkonung]

If by 'wired' you mean conditioned, then I concur. But if by 'wired' you are referring to some inherent biological trait I disagree because there is too much evidence in history of men wearing make up and wigs and things like that.

Interesting point about being conditioned by culture. Arguably we are all products of our culture. If American culture predominantly imprints on men not to wear makeup because it is feminizing, what does that about you being an American male and wearing makeup? I'm not calling you gay or feminine, I'm only trying to indicate why makeup for men could be perceived poorly.

Comparing makeup usage to other cultures is a inaccurate comparison. Sure many cultures, going back to the neanderthals and their use of red ochre for skin protection, have worn "makeup." However, those cultures are not your culture and likely did not affect your upbringing and conditioning (unless of course you were raised by neanderthals or ancient Egyptians, etc). And if some how you were raised by neanderthals, this is something the majority of Westerners probably don't share with you.

Perhaps you consider yourself as someone who has escaped the cultural imprinting of American gender biases, but you have to understand that most people have not acheived this and they will perceive you as being effeminate or vain for your use of makeup. Through your makeup wearing behavior, you are placing yourself outside of the "norm" and unless that makeup forms part of a celebrity persona, it will likely be perceived badly by most Americans / Westerners. You have to understand that getting angry won't help those people give up their deeply held prejudices against casual usage of men wearing makeup, it will only serve to further isolate you. After all, you don't see Jared Leto crying to the media about how many Americans might think he is gay or feminine wears eye liner (especially since it forms part of his "rocker" persona).

"The 35-year-old star, who is the band's lead singer, has started wearing heavy eye make-up and grungy clothes since embarking on a music career."

Edited by Skotkonung, 10 September 2009 - 09:58 PM.

[Dmitri]

I just wanted to explore the reasons so many people have problems with men wearing make up. I mean the premise is usually that it is a feminine thing. But when did this come about in history? It isn't as though women were the first to don make up, men once upon a time wore it just as much as women did.

Could it be that men stopped wearing it as much when the responsibility between genders was no longer divided equally during the patriarchalization of modern society? This would make sense since during this period men became increasingly more concerned with contriving ways to control both one another and women so they had little to no time to worry about personal aesthetics.

But now, in modern society, we see that this trend is beginning to reverse itself. With the incursion of 'emo' and 'scene' culture into our modern lives, it is becoming increasingly more acceptable for males to don make up and other typically 'feminine' Paraphernalia. I mean what it basically comes down to is why should it be alright for women to hide their imperfections beneath layers of make up but not men?

Any valid answers?

I don't think it looks good on men and I see no use for it. I think wearing a moisturizer can be as effective at least in my case, my skin looks great when I use an organic 5,000 IU Vitamin E cream. The same occured with my mother, she stopped using make-up while her eyes healed from lasik surgery. Instead of the make-up she wore an organic 25,000 IU Vitamin E cream which did wonders with her skin some days I even thought she was wearing make-up since her skin looked radiant and it effectively concealed her mild discolorization (she doesn't really have wrinkles, except for a few under her eyes) which I assume is from sun damage?

[JLL]

So that means (*pokes TheFountain*) that imminst men are not afraid of being womanly, they are just acting the way they supposed to due to something more complex like hormones and neural structures..

So what are you saying, I am gay and I don't realize it simply because I like to have hair on my head and wear make up?

Your ability to draw absurd conclusions is quite remarkable, I must say.

[spaceistheplace]

I rest my case.

[TheFountain]

For people who say that wearing make up is a feminine thing. Is having aesthetically pleasing bone structure a feminine thing as well? Here are some examples of men wearing just eyeliner. No matter what, you cannot hide the 'masculinity' of a couple, whereas the ones with nice bone structure may appear 'feminine' to you. All I know is there is something wrong with our world when pretty=feminine and ugly=masculine.

[niner]

For people who say that wearing make up is a feminine thing. Is having aesthetically pleasing bone structure a feminine thing as well? Here are some examples of men wearing just eyeliner. No matter what, you cannot hide the 'masculinity' of a couple, whereas the ones with nice bone structure may appear 'feminine' to you. All I know is there is something wrong with our world when pretty=feminine and ugly=masculine.

Not sure what eyeliner has to do with bone structure. And if ugly=masculine, then a couple of these guys are pretty macho... And what's that thing on the middle guy's face, a third nipple? I thought you were into facial perfection. His hair, if it's in fact his, has to be died, as no one is born with that shade. (Don't worry, I'm not stressed out about guys coloring their hair; half the guys I know color their hair.) But what I really wanted to ask is where the hell do you find these pictures? Do you have a collection of them?

[Ben]

...But what I really wanted to ask is where the hell do you find these pictures? Do you have a collection of them?

Oh man, I nearly choked on my coffee.