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What is the correct dosage?


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#1 hormoneman

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 05:13 PM


Bill Sardi say we may ony need around 180mgs per day

http://www.lewrockwe...di/sardi64.html

What dosage?

The human equivalent dose for a 160-pound adult would be about 1575 milligrams of resveratrol to produce the health benefits noted in the mouse study. The reporters didn’t read the study carefully, published in Nature Magazine, which said a lower-dose (~364 milligrams for a 160-pound adult) produced similar benefits.

Furthermore, the mice were engorged with fat, 60% of their daily calorie intake. Americans once consumed about 45% of daily calories from fat (1965), but that number has dropped to about 34% (2002). So a lower amount of resveratrol, maybe half as much (~180 mg) would likely be effective.

To add to the confusion, Big Pharma paid off a university researcher to tell a Canadian newspaper reporter that resveratrol is not biologically available in oral doses, when the recent National Institutes on Aging/Harvard study had proven otherwise (the mice consumed oral doses and benefited).

http://www.pbrc.edu/.....11-5 2006.pdf


Yet this study says we may need as much as 5000mgs per day

http://cebp.aacrjour.../full/16/6/1246


So how much should we take per day? I'm taking 500mg but now I don't know

#2 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 07:20 PM

The article is by Bill Sardi a person who has a concentration in Journalism not medicine, it is dated 2006.
Since then other professionals have discussed a 250mg-500mg dose, and think quite differently than Sardi. Some, like Sinclair have been quoted to say that it would take 5 grams a day.

The folks on this forum have discussed dosage for last 2-3 years, and many here are more knowledgeable than Bill Sardi, and do not have a horse in the race or biased.

Please do your research regarding Sardi, and dosage here in this forum:
http://www.google.co...lient=firefox-a

Here is another on resveratrol dose posts:
http://www.google.co...i...mp;oq=&aqi=

Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 05 September 2009 - 07:22 PM.


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#3 niner

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 07:59 PM

To add to the confusion, Big Pharma paid off a university researcher to tell a Canadian newspaper reporter that resveratrol is not biologically available in oral doses,

Do you have any evidence for this claim? I think that it's made up.

#4 david ellis

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 11:07 PM

http://www.lewrockwe...di/sardi64.html
Americans once consumed about 45% of daily calories from fat (1965), but that number has dropped to about 34% (2002).


I am a bit off topic here, but I remember 1965. We thought then that we knew what a fat person was. But fat in 2009 is way different, fat has reach epic proportions of the body, and epic percentages of the population. We had never heard of people who were so fat they couldn't move. We didn't know what diabetes type 2 was. Without any study we decided it was healthier to eat grains than fat and ended up with an avalanche of unhealthy fat people.

The lesson I am drawing here is be careful about your decisions to follow nutritional advice, even from authoritative figures. The penalties can be severe.

#5 hormoneman

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 03:43 PM

http://www.plosone.o...al.pone.0002264

A Low Dose of Dietary Resveratrol Partially Mimics Caloric Restriction and Retards Aging Parameters in Mice

CR and resveratrol do not alter SIRT1 levels, and CR but not resveratrol induces PGC-1α transcriptional targets
Feeding high levels of resveratrol to mice has been shown to be associated with increased SIRT1 activity as measured by PGC-1α acetylation and induction of its transcriptional targets [8], [9]. Because sirtuin overexpression increases longevity in some organisms and may mediate some of the effects of CR [3], [4], the induction of SIRT1 activity has been postulated to mediate the health benefits of resveratrol [8], [9]. We investigated if alterations in the levels of SIRT1 or induction of PGC-1α transcriptional activity can explain the observation that a low dose of resveratrol mimics CR. In contrast to previous finding in rats [23] and humans [24], neither CR nor resveratrol feeding significantly altered the levels of SIRT1 protein in brain or liver of mice, and SIRT1 abundance was actually significantly decreased in both heart and muscle of CR mice (Figure 3A). However, CR clearly increased the mRNA levels of Pgc-1α in skeletal muscle. CR also stimulated an increase in Pgc-1α transcriptional targets Pdk4 and Ucp3 in heart and skeletal muscle. In contrast, resveratrol did not significantly increase the levels of Pgc-1α expression or any of its transcriptional targets, with the exception of a small effect on the expression of Pdk4 in skeletal muscle (Figure 3B). Thus, our microarray results suggest that a low dose of dietary resveratrol induces a transcriptional program similar to CR in multiple tissues and retards aging parameters, but these effects may be largely independent of the increase in SIRT1 activity and activation of Pgc-1α transcriptional targets reported previously for mice in a high fat diet fed high levels of resveratrol [8], [9].

#6 niner

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 04:05 PM

http://www.plosone.o...al.pone.0002264

A Low Dose of Dietary Resveratrol Partially Mimics Caloric Restriction and Retards Aging Parameters in Mice

This article from Feb 2008 employed a dose of approximately 4.9mg/kg body weight in mice. Translating straight to humans without regard for differences in metabolism, that would be about 350mg/day for a 70kg human. In order to achieve equivalent plasma levels of resveratrol, a human would need approximately 30% more than this, about 450mg/d. I base this on pharmacokinetic studies in both humans and mice. I'm not sure that most people would consider this dose to be "low", but it's certainly do-able.

#7 opendoor

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 11:03 PM

Some, like Sinclair have been quoted to say that it would take 5 grams a day.


Can you provide a link, since Siclair said he was taking 300mg for a few years?

#8 niner

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 11:47 PM

Some, like Sinclair have been quoted to say that it would take 5 grams a day.

Can you provide a link, since Siclair said he was taking 300mg for a few years?

I don't have the link, but Sirtris used doses of up to 5g/d in their resveratrol clinical trials. And that was micronized and suspended in a surfactant.

#9 opendoor

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 12:42 AM

I don't have the link, but Sirtris used doses of up to 5g/d in their resveratrol clinical trials. And that was micronized and suspended in a surfactant.


Anthony is this what you were refering to? The SRT pills? But those 2.5g and 5g doses were for treating diabetes, not for normal users.

I haven't actually seen a quote where Dr. Sinclair has said " that it would take 5 grams a day." What is "it"?
That phrasing is a very strong statement that needs a link.

#10 zawy

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 12:50 AM

The problem is that free resv is basically "unavailable" in people compared to mice. After discussing this ad naseum last year with me arguing that we had more available than this message board was suggesting, I finally came to agree with the consensus that people do not get any reasonable amount of resv in their blood from an oral dose compared to the mice. To me it was like lack of free resv in humans was this forum's unhappy and unspoken "secret" and it made me wonder why we were taking it (I've dropped to 300 mg). I thought sublingual wouldn't make much difference because i thought most of the conversion occurs in the liver. But if the gluconated or sulfonated forms are converted back in the cell, then maybe we are getting free resv and not just byproducts that are relatively untested. I am just commenting from memory, so I won't disagree if someone recalls past discussions differently. From memory, I thought we got only 1% or so of what mice get after you do the size-difference conversion.

Nevertheless, more energy during the first week or two is well established here so that something is happening. And in general, my physical activity seems to increase when i take more. hmmmm maybe i'll go back to 600 mg.

#11 maxwatt

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 11:41 AM

Some, like Sinclair have been quoted to say that it would take 5 grams a day.

Can you provide a link, since Siclair said he was taking 300mg for a few years?

I don't have the link, but Sirtris used doses of up to 5g/d in their resveratrol clinical trials. And that was micronized and suspended in a surfactant.



In a recent article in Business Week, Sinclair was cited as saying "...to get such benefits, human beings might have to consume up to 5 grams of resveratrol a day".

The Auwerx study which fed mice 400 mg/kg body weight measured blood serum levels of resveratrol, and found the same levels that Boocock found in human volunteers who took 1 gram. Auwerx also used lower doses in the study, but found a dose/response relationship in the effect on mitochondrial density. In other words, lower doses were also effective, but not as effective as the high dose. The implication seems to be that a dose between half a gram and a gram will have similar results in humans as those Auwerx found in mice: enhanced endurance running performance and strongly protection from diet-induced obesity and insulin resistance by enhanced oxidative metabolism in skeletal muscle, liver, and brown adipose tissue mediated by direct deacetylation of PGC-1alpha, FOXO1, and p53 and the indirect stimulation of AMPK signaling through a global metabolic adaptation mimicking low energy levels. If you have been reading this forum over the last two years, there have been credible reports from athletes and coaches that confirm the effects on endurance. Side effects i humans are uncertain. Mice cannot tell you if their tendons hurt, but some people have reported joint and muscle pain.
-------
Resveratrol improves mitochondrial function and protects against metabolic disease by activating SIRT1 and PGC-1alpha.
Lagouge M, Argmann C, Gerhart-Hines Z, Meziane H, Lerin C, Daussin F, Messadeq N, Milne J, Lambert P, Elliott P, Geny B, Laakso M, Puigserver P, Auwerx J.
Cell. 2006 Dec 15;127(6):1109-22. Epub 2006 Nov 16.
PMID: 17112576

Phase I dose escalation pharmacokinetic study in healthy volunteers of resveratrol, a potential cancer chemopreventive agent.
Boocock DJ, Faust GE, Patel KR, Schinas AM, Brown VA, Ducharme MP, Booth TD, Crowell JA, Perloff M, Gescher AJ, Steward WP, Brenner DE.
Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 2007 Jun;16(6):1246-52.
PMID: 17548692

#12 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 01:56 PM

I don't have the link, but Sirtris used doses of up to 5g/d in their resveratrol clinical trials. And that was micronized and suspended in a surfactant.


Anthony is this what you were refering to? The SRT pills? But those 2.5g and 5g doses were for treating diabetes, not for normal users.

I haven't actually seen a quote where Dr. Sinclair has said " that it would take 5 grams a day." What is "it"?
That phrasing is a very strong statement that needs a link.


Opendoor here is something from Sinclair that you might be interested in:

July 29th, 2009 Article:
http://www.businessw...42000175800.htm

Resveratrol probably has some effect, Sinclair says. His lab showed that mice fed the chemicals live at least 15% longer than normal mice. But to get such benefits, human beings might have to consume up to 5 grams of resveratrol a day, he says. That's about 80 pills, at doses found in a typical bottle.



Ahhh.. .nutz, Maxwatt beat me too it.

A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 07 September 2009 - 01:57 PM.


#13 niner

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 02:21 PM

The Auwerx study which fed mice 400 mg/kg body weight measured blood serum levels of resveratrol, and found the same levels that Boocock found in human volunteers who took 1 gram.

That doesn't seem like it could be right. Were they measured at the same time from dosing? If the mice were dosed in food that they nibbled on all day, they would have a relatively constant but not super-high level. If the Boocock measurement was Cmax, or taken anywhere near Tmax, that would overstate the effect.

#14 niner

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 02:34 PM

The article that began this thread, written by Bill Sardi and posted on Lew Rockwell's site, is from November 13, 2006. There are a number of statements in it that have been proven incorrect, and there are statements that are paranoid or simply idiotic. I hope that users who are thinking about posting an old report like this will first use the search function to see if perhaps it has already been discussed to death, as this one has.

#15 maxwatt

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 02:46 PM

The Auwerx study which fed mice 400 mg/kg body weight measured blood serum levels of resveratrol, and found the same levels that Boocock found in human volunteers who took 1 gram.

That doesn't seem like it could be right. Were they measured at the same time from dosing? If the mice were dosed in food that they nibbled on all day, they would have a relatively constant but not super-high level. If the Boocock measurement was Cmax, or taken anywhere near Tmax, that would overstate the effect.


That could well be the case; the mice were measured before sacrifice. Depending on how fed, mice may nibble throughout the day as when food is always available, or they may wolf it all down at once, which is the case if their diets are regulated. I could not tell from Auwerx' supplemental data what the condition was. However people on one to two gram doses (and even less) have (anecdotally) shown effects that could be attributed to the sort of mitochondrial biogenesis found in rodents.

I have a hunch that peak levels for a short period are sufficient for noticeable effects.

Edited by maxwatt, 07 September 2009 - 02:50 PM.


#16 opendoor

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 01:16 AM

http://www.businessw...42000175800.htm


Anthony,
Look at this part of the article, though:

"All this helps explain why resveratrol concoctions have never been endorsed by Sinclair, Sirtris, or Glaxo. The compounds Glaxo is currently developing aren't resveratrol at all; they're synthesized molecules that appear to have a much more potent biological effect—at least in lab animals."

Of course they aren't going to endorse it now, but the reporter is wrong. First, there is resveratrol in the SRT pill. Second, Sinclair essentially endorsed Shaklee's Vivix, which is a blend. Third, Sinclair said he was taking 300 mg of Longevinex for several years before helping with Vivix, even if that wasn't an endorsement of that brand.

Finally, Dr. Sinclair has recently said in an LA Times article posted here a few weeks ago, that "I am surprised at the interest [of resveartrol], if you consider that the long-term effects in humans are not known," .... "The short-term effects are fine. But we don't know what happens if you take this for two decades. There are thousands of people performing a massive experiment." (He forgot to mention, "including me.)

Reporters often mess up stories on resveratrol.

Edited by opendoor, 08 September 2009 - 01:24 AM.


#17 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 01:37 PM

So let me get this right...

1- Your first post asks about a link to his statement about "5 Grams" a day.
2- I then provide the link and the quote.
3- You proceed to tell me that the reporter has it all wrong, because he doesn't mention endorsement of Vivix?

Interesting form of denial...

Ok, let's test this theory by going to the Video:
================================================

On April 1st, 2008.Barbara Walters did an interview with Dr. Sinclair.
Dr. Sinclair stated that she would need to drink about 1000 bottles of red wine a day. Not 10 bottles, or 10 glasses of wine, but simply 1,000 bottles of wine a day.

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded


================================================
Now there isn't just one Video...nope. Here is the second video made 9 months later.

On January 25th, 2009. 60 Minutes did a new interview with Dr. Sinclair.
In this interview he again states that a typical person would need to drink 1000 bottles of red wine a day to get the resveratrol needed.

http://www.cbsnews.c...ch/?id=4752354n


True, 1000 bottles of wine is not exactly 5 grams. But the fact remains, he either is advocating more than 500mg or two videos have it wrong, along with the reporter, regarding how much Dr. Sinclair stated.

I believe that this reporter did not screw up the quote regarding 5 grams, taken from Dr. Sinclair.

Cheers
A

#18 hormoneman

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 02:50 PM

So let me get this right...

1- Your first post asks about a link to his statement about "5 Grams" a day.
2- I then provide the link and the quote.
3- You proceed to tell me that the reporter has it all wrong, because he doesn't mention endorsement of Vivix?

Interesting form of denial...

Ok, let's test this theory by going to the Video:
================================================

On April 1st, 2008.Barbara Walters did an interview with Dr. Sinclair.
Dr. Sinclair stated that she would need to drink about 1000 bottles of red wine a day. Not 10 bottles, or 10 glasses of wine, but simply 1,000 bottles of wine a day.

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded


================================================
Now there isn't just one Video...nope. Here is the second video made 9 months later.

On January 25th, 2009. 60 Minutes did a new interview with Dr. Sinclair.
In this interview he again states that a typical person would need to drink 1000 bottles of red wine a day to get the resveratrol needed.

http://www.cbsnews.c...ch/?id=4752354n


True, 1000 bottles of wine is not exactly 5 grams. But the fact remains, he either is advocating more than 500mg or two videos have it wrong, along with the reporter, regarding how much Dr. Sinclair stated.

I believe that this reporter did not screw up the quote regarding 5 grams, taken from Dr. Sinclair.

Cheers
A



So my question is this - just how much resveratrol is in 1000 bottles of red wine???

#19 niner

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 04:22 PM

So my question is this - just how much resveratrol is in 1000 bottles of red wine???

Depends on the wine. How ever many mg of resveratrol are in one bottle, it will be that many grams. It's an incredibly meaningless way to talk about quantity of resveratrol.

#20 opendoor

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 11:44 PM

So let me get this right...

1- Your first post asks about a link to his statement about "5 Grams" a day.
2- I then provide the link and the quote.
3- You proceed to tell me that the reporter has it all wrong, because he doesn't mention endorsement of Vivix?

Interesting form of denial...


What are you talking about? What denial?

You first wrote, "Some, like Sinclair have been quoted to say that it would take 5 grams a day." I asked what "it" was and for a link. That "it" makes a big difference. The reporter wrote "to get such benefits" but only one listed was to live 15% longer like the mice. (Do the biochemists on this forum really think they will get a 15% life expectancy gain with 5g a day?) Her statement was vague, and I bet Sinclair was at least partly misquoted. If he really thought 5g were needed, then why was he taking just 300mg of longevinex for several years and also help create Vivixx, which is around 100mg, right? He stated at his Shaklee presentation how he wanted to get benefits out to the people. There was nothing about 5g at that time last year.

Sinclair is now under Glaxo, so is it a shock that he says in 2009 that he is surprised by the interest in resveratrol and that he warns tens of thousands are doing a long term human experiment?

As I said, the reporter was very sloppy. It just isn't true that there is no resveratrol in the SRT pill, as she claimed.
It also isn't true that Sinclair never endorsed a brand. He did, Vivix, before leaving Shaklee. How could she mess up these basic points?

#21 opendoor

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Posted 09 September 2009 - 02:28 AM

And Anthony, the 15% longer life span was for obese mice fed diets with 60% fat in it. So there is still no evidence suggesting that even 5 grams a day would increase the life expectancy of anyone but maybe the truly obese.

#22 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 09 September 2009 - 01:47 PM

I am sorry opendoor... I re-read the quote below...

I haven't actually seen a quote where Dr. Sinclair has said " that it would take 5 grams a day." What is "it"?


"It" refers to the 80 pills, at doses found in a typical bottle of resveratrol (according to the article).


As for evidence, there is no human trials or tests showing any life increase for humans (including truly obese folks), only animals. There is however an argument regarding quality of life. Maxwatt started a nice thread on the Sinclair mice life expectancy issue here: http://www.imminst.o...ice-t30770.html


Since you are 'new' here I would suggest you look up the arguments presented by a person named Holmes, that (for whatever personal reasons he had...) disappeared from the website sometime last month I believe. You present arguments much like he did, and maybe you are related, then again maybe not.

Search out his posts, and see the responses from folks, as I don't think many of us want to go through another "Holmes" discussion again.

A

#23 2tender

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Posted 09 September 2009 - 02:35 PM

IME the correct dose, for virtually anyone in reasonably good health and not taking medications, is between 250 and 1000 mgs of micronized, high purity product. I think a person has to go by the way they respond and feel when they include it in their regimen. Some people may not tolerate Resveratrol in any type or form, others may have sides that dissappear over time. I think its important to listen to your physiological feedback when taking supplements. JMO

#24 opendoor

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 01:11 AM

"It" refers to the 80 pills, at doses found in a typical bottle of resveratrol (according to the article).


No, the "it" is from your original statement "Some, like Sinclair have been quoted to say that it would take 5 grams a day."
You are saying then, "Some, like Sinclair have been quoted to say that 80 pills at typical doses would take 5 grams a day" ?

That doesnt make sense.

We still don't know if there are quality of life improvements beyond anecdotes.
Anyway, why do you think that:

1) Dr. Sinclair thinks 5000mg may be necesccary to get some unspecified improvements along with a 15% increase in lifespan -- that latter sheer speculation -- when he himself was taking only 300mg for several years and helping with the 100mg brand just last year? Did he have some epiphany?

2)Dr Sinclair now seems to be advising people take any resveratrol since it is a "human experiment"?

#25 maxwatt

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 01:55 AM

IME the correct dose, for virtually anyone in reasonably good health and not taking medications, is between 250 and 1000 mgs of micronized, high purity product. I think a person has to go by the way they respond and feel when they include it in their regimen. Some people may not tolerate Resveratrol in any type or form, others may have sides that dissappear over time. I think its important to listen to your physiological feedback when taking supplements. JMO


I think you probably have the dose about right. I've posted before that Boocock's human pharmokinetic study found levels from 1 gram doses similar to the level found in Auwerx rodents at 400 mg/kg; they had superior treadmill performance to the controls. (Improvement was noted in lower doses in the mice, but was greater with the higher dose). Auwerx measured increased mitochondrial density and size in the leg muscles of his resveratrol fed mice. Athletes, mostly cyclists, have posted about positive effects on their performance consistent to what one might expect from improved mitochondrial neogenesis and quality, using doses between 400mg and two grams. The cycling coach who posted here had accurate equipment to measure his VO2and power output, and measured improved performance in his athletes and later in himself where the only variable was resveratrol supplementation. I believe the dose he was using was 600 mg. Some of the data available from this forum strongly supports the notion that there is a great deal of individual variability in the amount needed, probably due to phenotypic variation in sulfonation enzymes, so some will need more and some less to see the same effects.

Since mitochondrial myopathy with age is a condition that causes many of the problems associated with aging, it is reasonable to surmise that resveratrol is an effective treatment for the muscular myopathy (sarcopenia) associated with old age.

The side effects reported here have mainly noted intestinal discomfort as a side effect (also reported in Sirtris' studies) and joint pain, which was not noted by Sirtris as a side effect. Joint pain seems to affect only a minority of users, though I cannot tell from the posters here what the proportion might be, given the nature of voluntary reporting and variation in dose and source and quality of material. It is encouraging that many later posted that the pain had ameliorated or disappeared, or had not been due to resveratrol in the first place.

#26 2tender

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 04:05 AM

Thanks for mentioning that. Ive taken Creatine, Whey and Glutamine (Glutamine can help with intestinal discomfort) for decades to offset sarcopenia, I have enhanced this mixture with 300mgs of micronized Resveratrol powder, 200 mgs of tocotrienol powder, and the same amount of a phosphatidylcholine mixture for the past couple of months. Its not a tasty beverage but it chases down a capsule each of Nitro and Mito, quite well. I think that the correct dosage is determined by a variety of factors with one of them being other supplements in a regimen. If their is Sirtuin activation as a result of Resveratrol ingestion, Im more than certain my physiology is experiencing it and, of course without lab work, its simply my opinion, and probably placebo at best, delusional at worst.

Edited by 2tender, 10 September 2009 - 04:09 AM.


#27 sethian1

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 05:38 PM

[quote name='2tender' date='Sep 10 2009, 04:05 AM' post='346088']
""I think that the correct dosage is determined by a variety of factors with one of them being other supplements in a regimen. If their is Sirtuin activation as a result of Resveratrol ingestion, Im more than certain my physiology is experiencing it and, of course without lab work, its simply my opinion, and probably placebo at best, delusional at worst."

I'm 77, in reasonably good health but with a long history of atrial fibrillation and about a decade of hypertension, which required the ingestion of three or four drugs (changing clinical needs) to bring my BP to an acceptable level. About a year ago I started using Nitro 250 mg formula which was claimed to have far greater bioavailability than other RSV products. Early in that year I found that my blood pressure would drop to alarming levels, so I eliminated all of the medications except for one that I found had the unique effect of reducing the calcium in atherosclerotic plaques.

In addition, my overall energy level, which had severely diminished a year or so ago, has returned to its previous good state--I am back to brisk mile walks daily and my nuclear stress test recently was excellent, considering the Atrial Fibrillation.

I month ago I doubled the Nitro 250 but have yet to see any significant change, but I plan to continue the dosage for the forseeable future--at my age I'll take anything that appears to be an improvement without expecting an immediate return. I take it in the morning along with the full aspirin that I have shifted from PM to AM because of the reported synergistic effect with RSV.

As to cholesterol, mine became very high some years ago despite my generally low-fat diet, and instead of taking the prescribed drugs I took a gram of niacin and 20 mg of policosanol daily, as recommended by Life Extension Foundation (www.lef.org), and here are the results: Cholesterol—164, triglycerides—64, HDL—91 and LDL—60 as of 12/15 2008.

My arthritis has been largely subdued with a regimen of glucosamine/condroitin/msm that took a month to work, but it did except for occasional twinges. I've read the reports that RSV relieves arthritic pain, and I am contemplating discontinuing the supplements when I run out of them to see if RSV takes up the slack.

Has anyone seen a diminution of cholesterol as a result of the use of RSV? If so, I'd like to learn about it to see if I might reduce or eliminate the use of the niacin and policosanol.

I have abandoned a fifteen-year regimen, to the consternation of my internist and cardiologist, because of the recent discovery that warfarin (coumadin) if taken for a year or more increases the incidence of osteoporosis in men from 25% to 60%. Discovering that a fall and consequent hip fracture frequently means death within six months time I calculated that the increase of stroke annually by changing from warfarin to aspirin was from two percent to four percent--to me a better set of odds than what can happen with osteoporosis and a fall. Moreover, I understand the RSV has some effect on making blood platelets slipperier--something that warfarin and aspirin do in different ways.

I've long described medical specialists as being afflicted with that ancient theological malady--invincible ignorance. My specialists exemplified this syndrome perfectly when they refused to consider the variables I was dealing with (both of them are highly respected in their fields), instead relying on what they had heard in their latest professional get-togethers. What could bring about such stupendous rigidity I asked myself. They are otherwise very reasonable people when their current knowledge (or ignorance) is not challenged. I suspect it is the same problem that is endemic in the medical field--the fear of lawsuits if one's recommendations for treatment are not already accepted in the most accepted (read conservative in the medical sense) journals and conclaves.

#28 niner

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 07:46 PM

I have abandoned a fifteen-year regimen, to the consternation of my internist and cardiologist, because of the recent discovery that warfarin (coumadin) if taken for a year or more increases the incidence of osteoporosis in men from 25% to 60%. Discovering that a fall and consequent hip fracture frequently means death within six months time I calculated that the increase of stroke annually by changing from warfarin to aspirin was from two percent to four percent--to me a better set of odds than what can happen with osteoporosis and a fall. Moreover, I understand the RSV has some effect on making blood platelets slipperier--something that warfarin and aspirin do in different ways.

You could get a DEXA scan to see what your Bone Mineral Density looks like. It's quick and easy, and not terribly expensive as scans go. If you have concerns about osteoporosis, there are pretty good medicines (e.g. Actonel) and supplements that you could take if needed.

I've long described medical specialists as being afflicted with that ancient theological malady--invincible ignorance.

Yeah, I've noticed this too...

#29 newshadow

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Posted 17 September 2009 - 12:21 AM

I don't have the link, but Sirtris used doses of up to 5g/d in their resveratrol clinical trials. And that was micronized and suspended in a surfactant.


Anthony is this what you were refering to? The SRT pills? But those 2.5g and 5g doses were for treating diabetes, not for normal users.

I haven't actually seen a quote where Dr. Sinclair has said " that it would take 5 grams a day." What is "it"?
That phrasing is a very strong statement that needs a link.



According to Longevinex's site Vitamin D increases Resveratrol bioavailability.

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#30 newshadow

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Posted 17 September 2009 - 12:30 AM

Some, like Sinclair have been quoted to say that it would take 5 grams a day.

Can you provide a link, since Siclair said he was taking 300mg for a few years?

I don't have the link, but Sirtris used doses of up to 5g/d in their resveratrol clinical trials. And that was micronized and suspended in a surfactant.



In a recent article in Business Week, Sinclair was cited as saying "...to get such benefits, human beings might have to consume up to 5 grams of resveratrol a day".

The Auwerx study which fed mice 400 mg/kg body weight measured blood serum levels of resveratrol, and found the same levels that Boocock found in human volunteers who took 1 gram. Auwerx also used lower doses in the study, but found a dose/response relationship in the effect on mitochondrial density. In other words, lower doses were also effective, but not as effective as the high dose. The implication seems to be that a dose between half a gram and a gram will have similar results in humans as those Auwerx found in mice: enhanced endurance running performance and strongly protection from diet-induced obesity and insulin resistance by enhanced oxidative metabolism in skeletal muscle, liver, and brown adipose tissue mediated by direct deacetylation of PGC-1alpha, FOXO1, and p53 and the indirect stimulation of AMPK signaling through a global metabolic adaptation mimicking low energy levels. If you have been reading this forum over the last two years, there have been credible reports from athletes and coaches that confirm the effects on endurance. Side effects i humans are uncertain. Mice cannot tell you if their tendons hurt, but some people have reported joint and muscle pain.
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Resveratrol improves mitochondrial function and protects against metabolic disease by activating SIRT1 and PGC-1alpha.
Lagouge M, Argmann C, Gerhart-Hines Z, Meziane H, Lerin C, Daussin F, Messadeq N, Milne J, Lambert P, Elliott P, Geny B, Laakso M, Puigserver P, Auwerx J.
Cell. 2006 Dec 15;127(6):1109-22. Epub 2006 Nov 16.
PMID: 17112576

Phase I dose escalation pharmacokinetic study in healthy volunteers of resveratrol, a potential cancer chemopreventive agent.
Boocock DJ, Faust GE, Patel KR, Schinas AM, Brown VA, Ducharme MP, Booth TD, Crowell JA, Perloff M, Gescher AJ, Steward WP, Brenner DE.
Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 2007 Jun;16(6):1246-52.
PMID: 17548692


Yeah,oddly enough antioxidants seem to produce joint pain.I am on the ntbha and my knees,neck,elbows and wrists starting creaking,snapping and aching.My guess is it is the antioxidant effect and not the deacetylation that is responsible.Everything that is good for you tastes bad [benfotiamine] or feels bad. :)

Cheers




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