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Larry Johnson's allegations


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#61 six

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 03:57 PM

I believe they did that properly but I'm not going to say I witnessed it as I don't recall. There were only a few suspensions while I was there and I cant really get in to any of it as I did sign an NDA. I'm sure there will be more official statements forthcoming. One think to keep in mind as too why they aren't moving more quickly is the supposed events happened quite a few years ago and present management etc needs time to go through material from that time. It would be foolish to make hasty statements when minor misstatements could be taken as proof of misdeeds. They need to make sure they can back up everything they say



you signed an NDA because you were using their labs? ....wouldn't Larry have had to sign one, too? This is something I've wondered about- you would think he would have HAD to sign one...thus not being able to write the book. I'm not saying I'm a total Larry supporter... I did get pissed off when I read his book because after read the first couple hundred pages you are pretty convinced that Alcor is f#cked up! He had bunches and bunches of "evidence" about their wrongdoings, but he broke the story first to Sports Illustrated??

He said in the book he wanted a legit magazine to break the story... that seemed like a stupid choice to me. If he was in fear of his life, he would have had the police break the story first, after he left town.... And if it's true...you really want the first people talking about it to be a sports magazine??!! I get it- Ted Williams and all...but that was really the least of his "evidence" in my opinion....there were bigger fish to fry, if you will. I was really bothered in the book when he talked about knowing the police would confront Alcor and he feared for the life of him and his wife... but then police went to Alcor without giving Larry a heads up??? If he was in such danger, wouldn't he have been under police protection...and they would have made sure he was out of tiwn first?? Another issue I found strange was that even though Bobbie Jo didn't want her dad frozen, she can't fight it in court because she took a $500,000 settlement from her brother..... why did she do that if it was so important to get her dad out? These are questions I was really hoping I would be able to ask Larry on his book's website, but there's no comment section.

I know you can't talk about it, but I'm curious as to what your suspicions pertained too.

#62 cryoguy

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 03:59 PM

.... my point is that not even funeral homes just pour stuff down the drain- and they also dispose of blood and chemicals. There are REGULTAED!! That's they key here. Alcor needs regulation, but everyone is so afraid to breathe this word in fear of it being shut down! Maybe it should, and the patients should be sent to CI where they comply with the state and are not endangering living citizens...and frozen patients for the matter.

Do you really know how CI or funeral homes dispose of their waste? This is what I found.

http://www.epa.gov/r...iance/more.html

Because many funeral homes employ an on-site sanitary system for disposal of embalming wastewater, EPA regulates these as Class V industrial process water and waste disposal wells. EPA has found that wastewater includes external corporeal wash water, internal body fluids, as well as residual arterial embalming chemicals. These chemicals typically include formaldehyde, phenol, and methanol.

A funeral home disposing of embalming fluids in an on-site sanitary system, has three options:

1. Connect to the sewer, if access is available,
2. Containerize embalming waste and haul it off site, or
3. Apply for a UIC permit, and operate under a UIC permit if granted

http://www.funerals....about-embalming

Embalming chemicals are highly toxic. Embalmers are required by OSHA to wear a respirator and full-body covering while embalming. Funeral home effluent, however, is not regulated, and waste is flushed into the common sewer system or septic tank.

I don't know how Alcor disposes of its wastes, but clearly a double standard is being applied relative to funeral homes and CI. If memory serves, the improper waste disposal allegation, like most of the book, is a recycled 2003 allegation by Johnson that was cleared up with municipal water authorities at the time. What companies put down sewers is already regulated and subject to inspection by local authorities.

Taking something that the general public doesn't know or think about much, and depicting it as shocking, seems to be a common theme of the book. Separation of heads for neuropreservation is probably the ultimate example. Imagine! Cryonics company removes heads! Shocking! Who knew they did such things? Let's show pictures....

#63 David Brandt-Erichsen

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 10:47 PM

The index you can view online at Amazon suggests to me that Johnson wrote it straight, but that he might have produced an unintentionally funny parody. He calls Dave Pizer, an Arizona business man I've worked for since 1991, a "cult leader," when anyone who knows Dave can see the absurdity of that claim:

http://www.amazon.co...3155603/#reader


I have known Dave Pizer for years, and I totally agree that anyone who knows Dave will immediately see the total absurdity of Johnson's claims against him. The libelous allegations against Pizer in the Johnson book are pure name-calling and are presented without a single shred of anything even pretending to be evidence.

#64 eternaltraveler

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 02:28 PM

you signed an NDA because you were using their labs? ....wouldn't Larry have had to sign one, too? This is something I've wondered about- you would think he would have HAD to sign one...thus not being able to write the book.


as far as I'm aware everyone signed one; it's standard practice. I believe he actually signed two. One in the employee handbook still in Alcor's possession he signed before starting work, and another separate NDA which he apparently stole when he left along with everything else he apparently stole.

The courts in arizona already barred him from discussing any of the confidential information at Alcor years ago. He did anyway.

Edited by eternaltraveler, 19 October 2009 - 02:29 PM.


#65 Shannon Vyff

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 10:09 PM

I heard he had broken his original Alcor employee NDA as well. The whole situation is sad, I've talked with people who were directly involved in some of the events "detailed" in Larry Johnson's book--that say what he writes is false. I was not at those events and I'm sure those who were, and what documentation there is from them will be used when or if needed. I was surprised that his current book was allowed to be published, when it seemed that some in Ted Williams family were against it being published.

Claudia Williams, the youngest child of the Red Sox legend, attended the hearing but declined comment. In a statement issued through her attorney Eric Abel on Monday evening, said she was "horrified and shocked" by Yates' decision.

"This book serves no public purpose and obliterates the innermost sanctuary of a family's privacy," the statement said. "I believe Larry Johnson violated the confidentiality of my family in the most vile manner possible...The privacy of my family and the resulting horror is of the highest degree and should never have outweighed the public's interest."



( http://www.nydailyne..._ted_alcor.html )

Larry Johnson went to work for Alcor after Ted Williams was preserved, I've always felt that if there was a real problem-something that he found truly shocking he would have gone to the police while he worked at Alcor or even after he left. Its too bad that the NYC court order has not yet gone through and backed up what the AZ court ordered. Even the audio recordings that Larry Johnson has given to various news sources were recorded while he was talking with people who were not present at the issues he was bringing up for his secret recordings. Those recordings were taken into consideration by AZ authorities, no charges have even been brought up and the first restraining order against Larry Johnson by the AZ court, I feel should be honored. On the topic of legislation, some people want Alcor to be more professional, which of course it is always working on. I empathize with the issues that have been brought up by many professionals that work or have worked with Alcor-there are currently initiatives in place to address how to make aspects of suspension and preservation better. I've visited Alcor three times, and talked with many people who have worked or volunteered there and have never heard or seen any major problems. Alcor is under legislation, so I don't understand what Larry Johnson-who calls himself "The enemy of cryonics", wants? Alcor is currently the leader in cryonics research funding and stand-by procedures. I volunteer to help with locally based Alcor Area Readiness teams who assist the Alcor transport team in the event of a local members' legal need for suspension. I've not read Larry Johnson's book as I've not wanted to contribute funds to what I feel is a over-dramatization and misrepresentation of cryonics, but I've seen many quotes from his book, seen his website and listened to many interviews with him. His efforts to try and make cryonics look ghoulish (and he also amounts to name calling in his descriptions of Mike Perry in the book), makes it seem to me that he is out more for the fame than for any effectual change. There are many committed cryonicists who are working to make the organizations better, and to keep providing the services that they've been giving for decades. Hopefully the publicity of this negative toned book will bring some more people into the field of cryonics. Making David Letterman's top ten, and other popular programs will I'm sure get the attention of those who thought cryonics was only science fiction and will be interested in it for its common sense possibilities. I myself saw a sensationalized news piece about the end of the Dora Kent case when I was a teen that had a negative tone and remember being amazed that cryonics was real, it seemed a noble endeavor to me and I've kept that interest as I've grown. I've seen the industry grow over the past decade, and hope to watch many more years of growth--I'll continue to volunteer for the Venturists to promote cryonics advocacy and help in what ways I can such as my writing, and local community building efforts.

I like to think he may have been influenced by me with his quote here:

"You have a right to be frozen, just like you have a right to cremation or burial," Johnson told the Daily News. "But people need to know what is going on at Alcor. I feel very strongly that lawmakers should step in and regulate this field. It sickened as a medical professional me that they would do this stuff."


As he must have read my petition that I created as a counter to his "calling for regulation" on the Care2 site, but there are medical professionals at Alcor and in the field of cryonics who are not sickened, there are some who are there working to better the field too. Finally, about regulating the field- CI is under the cemetery regulation of Michigan, Alcor has fought to maintain its own regulation and has higher standards than the funeral industry or cemetery regulation--there is more information in many areas on Alcor's site but this page goes into into detail over what happened in '04 when there was public hearing over Alcor's legislation http://www.alcor.org...on20040226.html

#66 Shannon Vyff

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 05:03 PM

This is interesting writing from when Larry Johnson left Alcor, that gives some perspective:
http://www.network54...son discovered-




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