77 replies to this topic

[niner]

Also I think people might confuse this stuff with topical finasteride shampoo. Otherwise known as Nizoral. I'm not sure but I think the latter has at least been proven effective.

Nizoral doesn't have finasteride in it. It contains ketoconazole, an antifungal agent that I think interferes with DHT but don't quote me on it. The OTC Nizoral is 1% I believe, but I think there's a prescription 2% version.

[tintinet]

Ketoconzole info here.

[TheFountain]

<br />

Also I think people might confuse this stuff with topical finasteride shampoo. Otherwise known as Nizoral. I'm not sure but I think the latter has at least been proven effective.

<br />Nizoral doesn't have finasteride in it. It contains ketoconazole, an antifungal agent that I think interferes with DHT but don't quote me on it. The OTC Nizoral is 1% I believe, but I think there's a prescription 2% version.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

I apparently confused Nizoral with a finasteride shampoo. Do you happen to remember the name of the latter?

[tintinet]

FWIW, comment on shampoos by Dr. William Rassman, Medical Director and Founder of the New Hair Institute:


"There are no topical products that block DHT for the treatment of male pattern hair loss in the same way something like finasteride or even dutasteride can. Propecia (finasteride) blocks DHT, but if you put that in a shampoo it will not work, because it will not get down to the growth center of the hair follicles which is at least 3mm below the skin surface. You can claim anything to sell a product and as stated many times here, “It is a buyer beware market”."

[TheFountain]

FWIW, comment on shampoos by Dr. William Rassman, Medical Director and Founder of the New Hair Institute:


"There are no topical products that block DHT for the treatment of male pattern hair loss in the same way something like finasteride or even dutasteride can. Propecia (finasteride) blocks DHT, but if you put that in a shampoo it will not work, because it will not get down to the growth center of the hair follicles which is at least 3mm below the skin surface. You can claim anything to sell a product and as stated many times here, "It is a buyer beware market"."

So I guess all people can do is take DHT inhibitors and shampoos with ingredients that have been proven to regrow hair, such as Ginseng and Biotin. I am not going bald but some of my hair is damaged due to using a flat iron. I find that using the nisim in conjunction with deep conditioning helps a bit to restrengthen and rethicken the hair.

Edited by TheFountain, 08 December 2009 - 12:07 AM.

[Arthu]

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[drmz]

My hair grows like grass with minoxidil, 1 month use, 1 time daily. I had some hair thinning, far from being bald. But it thought it was time to take preventive measures. I'm not sure if i'm going to order minoxidil again. Got a 10 month stash.
Only thing i notice is that the stuff seems to go straight to my heart for just a few seconds. Like there is a sudden drop of pressure. Then the head starts to tingle Cant be good. Gives me terrible nightmares as well, but that could also be the period of the year. High stress at the moment.

[Ron]

My hair grows like grass with minoxidil, 1 month use, 1 time daily. I had some hair thinning, far from being bald. But it thought it was time to take preventive measures. I'm not sure if i'm going to order minoxidil again. Got a 10 month stash.
Only thing i notice is that the stuff seems to go straight to my heart for just a few seconds. Like there is a sudden drop of pressure. Then the head starts to tingle Cant be good. Gives me terrible nightmares as well, but that could also be the period of the year. High stress at the moment.

It messed with my heartbeat a little at first, too. I found that if I wait at least an hour after showering, it's not an issue...probably an absorption issue. I do find that it's produced some dark circles under my eyes, though, so I'm thinking of dropping to 2% and then possibly dropping it altogether if that doesn't clear it up. Too bad, because it's really worked quite well on the hair.

[JLL]

FWIW, comment on shampoos by Dr. William Rassman, Medical Director and Founder of the New Hair Institute:


"There are no topical products that block DHT for the treatment of male pattern hair loss in the same way something like finasteride or even dutasteride can. Propecia (finasteride) blocks DHT, but if you put that in a shampoo it will not work, because it will not get down to the growth center of the hair follicles which is at least 3mm below the skin surface. You can claim anything to sell a product and as stated many times here, "It is a buyer beware market"."

So I guess all people can do is take DHT inhibitors and shampoos with ingredients that have been proven to regrow hair, such as Ginseng and Biotin. I am not going bald but some of my hair is damaged due to using a flat iron. I find that using the nisim in conjunction with deep conditioning helps a bit to restrengthen and rethicken the hair.

When has biotin been proven to regrow hair? Post studies please. Or were you told this in school as well?

[TheFountain]

FWIW, comment on shampoos by Dr. William Rassman, Medical Director and Founder of the New Hair Institute:


"There are no topical products that block DHT for the treatment of male pattern hair loss in the same way something like finasteride or even dutasteride can. Propecia (finasteride) blocks DHT, but if you put that in a shampoo it will not work, because it will not get down to the growth center of the hair follicles which is at least 3mm below the skin surface. You can claim anything to sell a product and as stated many times here, "It is a buyer beware market"."

So I guess all people can do is take DHT inhibitors and shampoos with ingredients that have been proven to regrow hair, such as Ginseng and Biotin. I am not going bald but some of my hair is damaged due to using a flat iron. I find that using the nisim in conjunction with deep conditioning helps a bit to restrengthen and rethicken the hair.

When has biotin been proven to regrow hair? Post studies please. Or were you told this in school as well?

B vitamins strengthen hair follicles, ginseng regrows hair. Studies have already been posted in this thread, go look for them and stop being lazy.

[drmz]

Minoxidil is not a long-term solution (unless you're betting on the discovery of a new drug within 5 years), because it stimulates hair growth but does nothing to reduce DHT, 5-alpha-reductase and androgen receptors. So you'll be growing new hairs that eventually will be die just like the old ones.

Yep, only way to make it long-term is to use it forever.

[JLL]

B vitamins strengthen hair follicles, ginseng regrows hair. Studies have already been posted in this thread, go look for them and stop being lazy.

I posted the study showing ginseng grows hair in vitro (NOT in humans), and I just went through the thread looking for a link to a study showing B vitamins strengthen hair follicles (which is not the same as regrowing hair), and there was none, so how 'bout you stop being lazy and back up your claims.

For all the anger you show in other threads towards people not backing up their claims, you sure don't seem to back up any of yours.

[JLL]

Just went through pubmed with the search term "biotin hair" and couldn't find any abstracts suggesting that biotin supplementation "strengthens hair follicles" except perhaps in the case of a biotin deficiency (which is rare).

Proliferation and differentiation of cultured human follicular keratinocytes are not influenced by biotin.

In humans and in animals, biotin deficiency causes pathological changes in the skin and its appendages. High doses of biotin may also have beneficial effects on skin, hair and fingernails in humans and animals with normal biotin status. Therefore, we investigated the effects of low and high concentrations of biotin on proliferation and differentiation of cultured outer root sheath cells from human hair follicles as an in vitro model for skin. The activities of biotin-dependent carboxylases were measured to evaluate the biotin status of the cells. In monolayer cultures of outer root sheath cells, proliferation and expression of the differentiation-specific keratins K1 and K10 were not influenced by extremely low concentrations of biotin (<2 x 10(-10) mol/l) or by pharmacological doses of biotin (10(-5) mol/l). Biotin deficiency of the cells was confirmed under the former condition by demonstrating decreased activities of the mitochondrial carboxylases. In organotypic cocultures of outer root sheath cells and dermal fibroblasts, in which stratified epithelia resembling epidermis were developed, the biotin concentration had no effect on the expression of all tested epidermal differentiation markers, including the suprabasal keratins K1 and K10, the hyperproliferation-associated keratin K16, involucrin and filaggrin.

[sentrysnipe]

For those who have trouble with Minoxidil, google "Procyanidin B2", or try making your own stimulator using Grape Seed Extract powder (via BeyondACentury).

Caffeine inhibits testosterone (in vitro), GLA actually is a DHT inhibitor so apply this topically as well.

Lastly, if you want something DHT-proof, you might want to google "EGFR inhibitors" like silymarin or genistein (soy), but be careful with gynecomastia especially on genistein. This will only work after dermabrading the scalp / skin surface using chemical peels or dermabrasion.

use carrier creams with dmso or something.

[TheFountain]

B vitamins strengthen hair follicles, ginseng regrows hair. Studies have already been posted in this thread, go look for them and stop being lazy.

I posted the study showing ginseng grows hair in vitro (NOT in humans), and I just went through the thread looking for a link to a study showing B vitamins strengthen hair follicles (which is not the same as regrowing hair), and there was none, so how 'bout you stop being lazy and back up your claims.

For all the anger you show in other threads towards people not backing up their claims, you sure don't seem to back up any of yours.

Excuse me, um, every time I post a study people like yourself just go into some long winded diatribe about why the study is irrelevant or not useful, as with the IGF-1-animal protein link. Every study I posted you just went into a non-sequitor ramble about how it proves nothing when in fact it proved exactly what I said it did. Talk about irrelevant whining. And then you guys post articles of OPINION on paleo blogs on top of it in the same breath as calling the studies I posted irrevelant! You got some balls man.

[JLL]

You're excused.

[niner]

Excuse me, um, every time I post a study people like yourself just go into some long winded diatribe about why the study is irrelevant or not useful, as with the IGF-1-animal protein link. Every study I posted you just went into a non-sequitor ramble about how it proves nothing when in fact it proved exactly what I said it did.

By "people like you", I'm guessing you mean "people who understand the science"? It's not really fair to call what these people post a "long winded diatribe" or "non-sequitor ramble" when you don't understand it. I mean, it's basically pretty insulting to them. Is that really what you want to do?

[TheFountain]

Excuse me, um, every time I post a study people like yourself just go into some long winded diatribe about why the study is irrelevant or not useful, as with the IGF-1-animal protein link. Every study I posted you just went into a non-sequitor ramble about how it proves nothing when in fact it proved exactly what I said it did.

By "people like you", I'm guessing you mean "people who understand the science"? It's not really fair to call what these people post a "long winded diatribe" or "non-sequitor ramble" when you don't understand it. I mean, it's basically pretty insulting to them. Is that really what you want to do?

I think I have proven to have just as much if not more of an understanding in some aspects of dietary science than people like JLL. It is lame to say I don't when you do not even know my education. And even if I hypothetically had less understanding than some of them, you are thus implying that they have more of an understanding than the people who conducted the studies which prove their claims wrong. That is the epitome of freakin arrogance man.

Edited by TheFountain, 10 December 2009 - 12:18 AM.