36 replies to this topic

[ap00]

Would would be the best memory enhancer to take before an exam, as needed. I'm not talking about cramming, but I wonder if there is something (huperzine, galantamine.?.) that would improve memory retention while reviewing for an exam?

[csrpj]

i hear oxiracetam is great for both quickly assimilating info and remember if for after (i've even read reports of almost photographic memory). only downside is it comes with a crash, so i guess if you'd use it for exams you'd study while on oxi the night before.

[LIB]

Maybe a nicotine patch? Isn't nicotine supposed to release vassopressin, which helps imprint memories?

[Ben]

Galantamine - high dose. Can't take it forever though.

[Zoroaster]

Galantamine - high dose. Can't take it forever though.

Ben, do you prefer Galantamine to Huperzine? Is it worth the extra cost?

[Ben]

Galantamine - high dose. Can't take it forever though.

Ben, do you prefer Galantamine to Huperzine? Is it worth the extra cost?

Probably not. I don't notice any difference in either's effects. Galatamine has more research behind it however so it is arguably safer.

[Steve_86]

i hear oxiracetam is great for both quickly assimilating info and remember if for after (i've even read reports of almost photographic memory). only downside is it comes with a crash, so i guess if you'd use it for exams you'd study while on oxi the night before.

That report may have been from me.

Oxiracetam gives me an extremely good memory of images and diagrams, that are very vivid and colourful. I take 9+ grams and experience no crash what so ever. I only do this if i need to cram the night before an exam. Combine it with 5mg dex-amphetamine (re-dose every 2-3 hours), lemon balm, and ahpha gpc and your memory will be spot on

[csrpj]

isn't 9+g excessively high?

[JLL]

Coffee and chocolate (caffeine + theobromin) seems to work for me.

[TheFountain]

Galantamine is RIDICULOUSLY expensive! Just try this it worked for me. Who cares if it doesn't have science behind it. Try it and let your own experience tell you what is what. Besides it has a pretty good synergistic blend of a few things, some of which DO have research behind them.

Edited by TheFountain, 16 October 2009 - 09:23 AM.

[Ben]

...worked for me. Who cares if it doesn't have science behind it. Try it and let your own experience tell you what is what.

The saddest thing of all is that you're being serious, aren't you? That's a serious post isn't it?

:'(

[matter_of_time]

I think this have to be vassopressin

I dont know where you can buy it, desmopressin does not work for me.

[TheFountain]

...worked for me. Who cares if it doesn't have science behind it. Try it and let your own experience tell you what is what.

The saddest thing of all is that you're being serious, aren't you? That's a serious post isn't it?

:'(

Have you tried focus formula?

It includes

Ginko Biloba
Folic Acid
B12
DMAE
Gotu Kola
Huperzine-A

amongst other ingredients. Most of which have positive scientific research behind them. So what if this particular supplement has no research. I have tried it and it works. And I am not susceptible to 'placebo effect'.

Edited by TheFountain, 16 October 2009 - 04:24 PM.

[Mike M]

I didn't think 29 bucks for 30 cap 8mg was bad for galantamine

[hamishm00]

A super study stack:

Piracetam - 1500mg
CDP Choline - 500 mg
ALCAR Arginate - 1000 mg
ALA - 100 mg
Nicotine patch - 21mg
Sublingual B12
Chocamine (go easy)

That should help. I would road test it first.

Add Vassopressin and modafinil with care, but those will also significantly increase cramming performance.

[meursault]

And I am not susceptible to 'placebo effect'.

LOL

[TheFountain]

And I am not susceptible to 'placebo effect'.

LOL

If I were then any formulation of something like, say, St. Johns wort would work for me, but only specific formulas work. Other's do absolutely nothing for me. Same with other nootropics. Explain how that is Placebo effect!

[meursault]

Insuspectibility to the placebo is almost impossible to substantiate without being tested under stringent conditions. So even if you have different reactions to different substances, the success of the "focus formula" doesn't clarify what nutrients are successful working in what amounts.

I have been calling out the possibility for placebo effect on these boards lately because so much of the discussion in this forum about substances like the racetams is based completely on speculation. Innumerable threads have been posted asking why nothing happens when, why the effects are so different from day to day, and asking about the potential of combining many substances. The continuing reliance on anecdotal observations and disregard of scientific evidence is troubling, and unwise.

Also, look at something like what hamish is taking. How could the efficacy of that stack possibly be understood simply by anecdotal observation, without advanced biochemical knowledge, testing etc.?

I'm not denying your experience, nor the success of the formulas for you, but I do not consider your recommendations safe or particularly useful, especially since focus formula is a proprietary blend, something not looked on favorable for many people here.

[andyr300]

Insuspectibility to the placebo is almost impossible to substantiate without being tested under stringent conditions. So even if you have different reactions to different substances, the success of the "focus formula" doesn't clarify what nutrients are successful working in what amounts.

I have been calling out the possibility for placebo effect on these boards lately because so much of the discussion in this forum about substances like the racetams is based completely on speculation. Innumerable threads have been posted asking why nothing happens when, why the effects are so different from day to day, and asking about the potential of combining many substances. The continuing reliance on anecdotal observations and disregard of scientific evidence is troubling, and unwise.

Also, look at something like what hamish is taking. How could the efficacy of that stack possibly be understood simply by anecdotal observation, without advanced biochemical knowledge, testing etc.?

I'm not denying your experience, nor the success of the formulas for you, but I do not consider your recommendations safe or particularly useful, especially since focus formula is a proprietary blend, something not looked on favorable for many people here.

Have you tried Piracetam? Or are you basing everyones experience as purely speculation/placebo?

[TheFountain]

Insuspectibility to the placebo is almost impossible to substantiate without being tested under stringent conditions. So even if you have different reactions to different substances, the success of the "focus formula" doesn't clarify what nutrients are successful working in what amounts.

I have been calling out the possibility for placebo effect on these boards lately because so much of the discussion in this forum about substances like the racetams is based completely on speculation. Innumerable threads have been posted asking why nothing happens when, why the effects are so different from day to day, and asking about the potential of combining many substances. The continuing reliance on anecdotal observations and disregard of scientific evidence is troubling, and unwise.

Also, look at something like what hamish is taking. How could the efficacy of that stack possibly be understood simply by anecdotal observation, without advanced biochemical knowledge, testing etc.?

I'm not denying your experience, nor the success of the formulas for you, but I do not consider your recommendations safe or particularly useful, especially since focus formula is a proprietary blend, something not looked on favorable for many people here.

I call it a synergistic blend. And I provided the links to research data for various of its ingredients to confirm that it isn't mere fanciful stabs at hoaky supplementation. Is it any different than the myriad 'stacks' recommended by various users here?

[meursault]

I have tried Piracetam, Aniracetam, Oxiracetam, Phenylpiracetam, and Pramiracetam. I have had the longest trials with piracetam and aniracetam. I have tried all of these on a wide range of doses. Piracetam and aniracetam had a combination of positive and negative effects not worth it for me. However, I am not imposing my experience on anyone else. I am being skeptical, especially when claims amount to profound changes in memory or intelligence to the amounts that have not been documented in any peer-reviewed study in a single individual.

TheFoundation, my issue is that you don't know what the exact amounts of those ingredients are in that blend. Some of the studies it sites are over 20 years old. Some of ingredients are contained in vegetables or grains. I think it is "hoaky" product. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I am strongly advocating for more skepticism.

Also, it is different from the myriad "stacks" recommended by various users here in that we know the exact amount of each substance they are ingesting at once. However, I don't see why we should be less skeptical about the need to or the effectiveness of combining 7 or more herbs/blends/nutriceuticals all at once.

[Pike]

desmopressin+adderall, unquestionably.

[TheFountain]

TheFoundation, my issue is that you don't know what the exact amounts of those ingredients are in that blend.

Yes I do. Scroll down to where it 'says supplement facts'.

http://www.drugstore...ors_caplets.htm

[meursault]

Oh, I was looking at a different focus formula.

Either way, you are paying for something that lists "water" as an ingredient, and I still think its a waste of money and that there are better routes to the intended goal.

[Invariant]

Oh, I was looking at a different focus formula.

Either way, you are paying for something that lists "water" as an ingredient, and I still think its a waste of money and that there are better routes to the intended goal.

More rubbish on their ingredient list: Vitamin B12 (as cholecalciferol)
Now b12 is great if it's methylcobalamin, but not if it's cholecalciferol which is a form of VITAMIN D.

It contains some usefull substances, the best of which is probably huperzine A but I wouldn't take hup A for long term.

[matthias7]

I am going to go for good old sleep supplements, threanine, taurine, (possibly) GABA, valarian, ldopa, 1-carboxy.

Some drug based sleep stuff has demonstrable nootropic effects. The above is just a guess. It will help you sleep though

Edited by matthias7, 19 October 2009 - 12:48 PM.

[Zoroaster]

I call it a synergistic blend. And I provided the links to research data for various of its ingredients to confirm that it isn't mere fanciful stabs at hoaky supplementation. Is it any different than the myriad 'stacks' recommended by various users here?

No offense Fountain, but the clear difference between many of the stacks listed here and the product you linked is that the product you linked sucks. 200mg of lecithin is about 1/6th of a standard dose. 5mg vinpocetin is 1/3rd the standard. 50mg ALA is 1/4th the necessary dose. 100mg 7.5% DHA/EPA fish oil concentrate? Ridiculous. The only products in there that are included with a large enough dose to have a discernible effect are the huperzine and ginkgo. This is a classic strategy for scam products. They just include lists of nootropics in diminished doses because they know most people don't know what the standard dose is. And they include a decent dose of huperzine because it's so small it takes up no space in the pill and a decent dose of ginkgo because it's dirt cheap. If you want ginkgo and hup-A, there are far more cost-effective ways to get it. And saying things like this,

Who cares if it doesn't have science behind it. Try it and let your own experience tell you what is what.

...is just plain irresponsible. I died a little inside when I read that. The placebo effect is much more powerful than most people realize and your statement that you're not usually susceptible to it is useless. There is no way for you to know, outside participating in a double blind study, how much of your effect is "real" and how much is placebo. And the fact that you thought that you were not susceptible to the placebo effect because you only respond to certain St. John's wart supplements just demonstrates how misunderstood this concept is.

So just to be clear to anyone reading this, your personal experiences don't prove anything. They can be interesting, they could even be somewhat meaningful if your experiences yield extreme results, but let science and research be your primary guide. It doesn't mean a specific product needs research, but look at the ingredients, look at the dosages, look at the studies, and then go from there. Or, you can use this rule of thumb as a shortcut: All pre-made combination nootropic supplements are crap. Yes, all of them. Its true.

[Pike]

So just to be clear to anyone reading this, your personal experiences don't prove anything. They can be interesting, they could even be somewhat meaningful if your experiences yield extreme results, but let science and research be your primary guide. It doesn't mean a specific product needs research, but look at the ingredients, look at the dosages, look at the studies, and then go from there. Or, you can use this rule of thumb as a shortcut: All pre-made combination nootropic supplements are crap. Yes, all of them. Its true.

i wish i could frame this post.

+1

[nito]

I bought CDP-choline and have been taking 2 everyday for like 5 days. Today i took 4 in a day. I don't know why i dont feel it as i have heard it can be felt straight away. I've oticed that concentration has imporved, that could be placebo though.

[lynx]

I bought CDP-choline and have been taking 2 everyday for like 5 days. Today i took 4 in a day. I don't know why i dont feel it as i have heard it can be felt straight away. I've oticed that concentration has imporved, that could be placebo though.

I second the nicotine patch -- increases vasopressin, also increases dopamine release in the PFC(so does Galantamine). Nicotine patch is cheaper than Galantamine, get it at walmart, take a 7mg patch and cut in half to start with.