LONGECITY

What doctors recommend it's use? What human evidence is there? Rats and mice don't count.

The average doctor (MD) simply doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to resveratrol. The average doctor will tell you to eat a low fat, high carb diet and take statins. If you want doctors to recommend resveratrol, it's going to be a long wait.

There is some human evidence. A number of trials are ongoing or completed. We have some very interesting data that has been discussed in this forum.

The average doctor (MD) simply doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to resveratrol. The average doctor will tell you to eat a low fat, high carb diet and take statins.

Sad, but true... med school attracts the least inquistive and least scientifically minded among a pool who can jump through the memorizing hoops. Not to knock the 2% who are on top of things...

He specifically says Resveratrol doesn't have an optimum dose, since we don't have the evidence for such a claim. Simply based on the evidence, it seems 1.2/mg/Liter (one or two bottles of red wine) is the best extrapolation from the "French Paradox."

That is, specifically, if I could find a 1.2 mg pill of resveratrol, I would buy it. Who sells 1.2 mg of resveratrol? I see some people are taking 1000mg pills when there's no doctors who actually recommend this dose!

I mean, life extension science is based on hype already, but if you're taking 1000mg but can't even find ONE DOCTOR to recommend 1000mg, you're in trouble. Where's the evidence?

25mg of res is basically flushed out, I don't think 1.2mg will be very helpful:
http://dmd.aspetjour...ract/32/12/1377

In regards to the doctor... Doctor's typically try to relieve an ailment, and even the government does not consider aging an ailment... so you need to ask the right question. WHAT would a doctor prescribe this for?

I also mentioned Dr. Maroon (He does treat humans, not rats), which mentions that athletes may benefit by taking more than 500mg. Please read his book "The Longevity Factor", it summarizes a lot of the data about resveratrol.

Cheers
A
Edited by Anthony_Loera, 09 November 2009 - 02:28 PM.

What doctors recommend it's use? What human evidence is there? Rats and mice don't count.

The average doctor (MD) simply doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to resveratrol. The average doctor will tell you to eat a low fat, high carb diet and take statins. If you want doctors to recommend resveratrol, it's going to be a long wait.

There is some human evidence. A number of trials are ongoing or completed. We have some very interesting data that has been discussed in this forum.

Dr. Pratt isn't your average doctor. Did you see his presentation? He says folks should get certain doses of certain supplements for optimum health. He doesn't say a dosage for resveratrol, plain and simple. I attached his presentation again in case you missed it.

What doses were/are used in the human trials? That might be a decent starting point.

Adam23,

He specifically says Resveratrol doesn't have an optimum dose, since we don't have the evidence for such a claim. Simply based on the evidence, it seems 1.2/mg/Liter (one or two bottles of red wine) is the best extrapolation from the "French Paradox."

That is, specifically, if I could find a 1.2 mg pill of resveratrol, I would buy it. Who sells 1.2 mg of resveratrol?

I understand that he talks about fruits and good stuff... however you did post to the resveratrol forum... so let's talk about Resveratrol.

Did you read the study I provided? It shows that 25mg of resveratrol on Humans, is basically flushed out:
http://dmd.aspetjour...ract/32/12/1377

Has this Dr. Pratt performed a study on humans that might show different data at 1.2 mg?

A
Edited by Anthony_Loera, 09 November 2009 - 03:21 PM.

I don't think you've seen his presentation. I will attach it again.

I checked out the study you linked to! I don't see where you're getting that 25mg is ineffective. It just says:

Adam23,

I understand that he likes vitamins... however did you read the study I provided?
It shows that 25mg of resveratrol on Humans, is basically flushed out:
http://dmd.aspetjour...ract/32/12/1377

Has this Dr. Pratt performed a study on humans that might show different data at 1.2 mg?

A

Ok,

so what you are saying was that the Dr. does not recommend a particular dose, but that you have come to the conclusion to take 1.2mg to 2.4mg. Please do a search on what particular benefits you are looking for. Typically many other benefits that have been shown in animals, have only been shown when larger amounts of resveratrol are found in the plasma. Amounts such as 3.5mg or even 25mg will not produce the amounts for many of the benefits.

I guess the question to you would be... what benefits do you expect from resveratrol?

Cheers
A
Edited by Anthony_Loera, 09 November 2009 - 07:19 PM.

Amounts such as 3.5mg or even 25mg will not produce the amounts for many of the benefits.

The studies are short term. You cannot make this statement with any certainty for long-term supplementation.

Most likely, resveratrol (as with any nutrient) will still provide benefits at even very low doses. It will simply just affect less cells.

I don't think you've seen his presentation. I will attach it again.

I checked out the study you linked to! I don't see where you're getting that 25mg is ineffective. It just says:

Although the systemic bioavailability of resveratrol is very low, accumulation of resveratrol in epithelial cells along the aerodigestive tract and potentially active resveratrol metabolites may still produce cancer-preventive and other effects.

This is pure speculation. "potentially" active... "may" still produce... He's not offering any evidence whatsoever here; it's just opinion.

I also don't know if you read my earlier post. All I said is 1.2 or 2.4mg sounds like a reasonable dose based on human consumption of wine -- this may explain the "french paradox." Dr. Pratt doesn't recommend any particular dose of resveratrol, since that data isn't available.

Most people around here don't even believe in the "French paradox". It might have seemed like a paradox when a lot of people believed the stories about all fat being evil, but now that we have a more sophisticated view of nutrition, the "paradox" is no more. It is highly unlikely that resveratrol has anything to do with the "paradox" at any rate.

The systemic low bioavailability of Resveratrol is a fallacy. Consistent ingestion will assure adequate absorbtion over a period of time. If you want to use 1 or 2 mgs a day go ahead, put it in grape juice. The data regarding Resveratrol is available, not everyone responds to it in the same way and find they cant take it, just like other supplements and foods. The risk/rewards ratio IS FAVORABLE for most adults in reasonably good health, if it wasnt there simply would not be a market nor would there be anyone using it. Its just my opinion based on what I have read and discussed with others.

The risk/rewards ratio IS FAVORABLE for most adults in reasonably good health, if it wasnt there simply would not be a market nor would there be anyone using it. Its just my opinion based on what I have read and discussed with others.

You did not notice the circular logic when writing this paragraph, did you? Because there is a market the risk/reward ratio must be good, while the market exists because of the good risk/reward ratio. Just like with all the poisonous (bodybuilding, fat loss, "health") supplements that are bestsellers? 
Only the data matters.

I don't think ADAM23 is looking for resveratrol TBH. He thinks he wants resveratrol presumably because it is in wine*, while I am sure that he wants wine because of the wine, based on his posts. If you are after the "french paradox" (not that it is a good idea to begin with) or after the superb and massively positive prospective epidemiology on wine, then, well, you want wine *not resveratrol at a dose found in wine*.

*probably a missatribution error: resveratrol is not the only active compound in wine.
Edited by kismet, 10 November 2009 - 08:44 PM.

Yes I did, thanks for reading and posting though. Resveratrol is not comparable to any "grey area" performance supplements and if the poster really wants wine, its my opinion that he should try grape juice instead, lol. I think that Resveratrol is probably one of the most healthful, promising supplements available right now, but as with all things similar, prudence is priority. Do you use Resveratrol? What dose are you at? Thanks again for posting.

...
*probably a missatribution error: resveratrol is not the only active compound in wine.

True, and many of the effects can no doubt be attributed to alcohol.

I saw my neuropathic physician today for an hour and he and his colleague recommend that I stay at 500 mg per day.
Edited by pycnogenol, 18 November 2009 - 12:15 AM.

The systemic low bioavailability of Resveratrol is a fallacy. Consistent ingestion will assure adequate absorbtion over a period of time. If you want to use 1 or 2 mgs a day go ahead, put it in grape juice. The data regarding Resveratrol is available, not everyone responds to it in the same way and find they cant take it, just like other supplements and foods. The risk/rewards ratio IS FAVORABLE for most adults in reasonably good health, if it wasnt there simply would not be a market nor would there be anyone using it. Its just my opinion based on what I have read and discussed with others.

How exactly do you define favorable? How do you define risk and how reward? Can we oversee the risk on such a short timescale? What data is available? Human in vivo clinical trials? Or in vitro/ mice extrapolations and alot of assumptions. You can apply niners sentence "This is pure speculation. "potentially" active... "may" still produce... He's not offering any evidence whatsoever here; it's just opinion."on alot of resveratrol related topics on here. Some explanations seem more consistent then others, but at the end there is no hard data out there. And by hard i mean any double blind placebo controlled human studies...not some fucked up mice getting resveratrol for diner. See Michael's point A debunkings.

I think the market is created, it's not always a matter of demand & supply. The market doesn't consist of all rational buyers, probably demand is fueled by irrationality more than anything else.
Edited by drmz, 18 November 2009 - 08:26 PM.