59 replies to this topic

[Teixeira]

We know with great detaill the properties of a human body. But what do we expect to find in an immortal body? This is very important because sometimes I see people assuming that a body with the fabulous capacity to live forever, suffering from the same problems and limitations of a human body. With the only differnce that it would be able (by some misterious reasons) to live forever.
The fact that some body is immortal should mean that something very specialy is operating inside him that allowed him to be immortal. Otherwise, he would be a mortal like everybody else! Now the question is, if the diference between the two kind of bodies is so great, what are the parameters that has changed and in what way?
I give you an example of the problematics that we can find: for a mortal body, it´s fundamental the existence of an "impulse" that force the body to reproduce the species, otherwise soon everybody would be dead. But what happens to an immortal nature? Does an immortal needs to have an impulse towards reprodution? What kind of sexual live does he have? And with what purpose?
As you see, we have a lot of things do discuss.
I invite you to do so.

[Cyberbrain]

See here:

What is your preferred body to achieve immortality?

[Ben Abba]

... But what do we expect to find in an immortal body?

This is very important because sometimes I see people assuming that a body with the fabulous capacity to live forever, suffering from the same problems and limitations of a human body. With the only difference that it would be able (by some misterious reasons) to live forever...

The fact that some body is immortal should mean that something very special is operating inside him that allowed him to be immortal...

Now the question is, if the diference between the two kind of bodies is so great, what are the parameters that has changed and in what way? ...

But what happens to an immortal nature? Does an immortal needs to have an impulse towards reprodution? What kind of sexual live does he have? And with what purpose? ...

Great post Teixeila!

In case you have not heard, my research has produced serious answers to your questions by searching for and finding people whom I consider to be "immortals" living among us today.

I have some of my research posted on my main blog: http://Ben-Abba.com and my main podcast radio show http://Achieving-Immortality.com where you can find more detailed answers to your questions.

However to briefly summarize what I have found that relates to your questions:

1. Somewhere between a 55 year old to 80 year old looking body with equivalent energy level depending on current lifestyle.

2. Definitely something different inside the body ...

3. However mostly due to "programming" and "belief systems" versus diet, drugs, or genetic aberration.

4. They definitely have reproduced throughout their lives and often remark that it has helped them achieving longevity.

Here is a good start. I will check in as often as I can to keep the conversation going.

[Teixeira]

See here:

What is your preferred body to achieve immortality?

The purpose of your topic is absolutely diferent from mine. I am not going to talk about artificial modifications of human nature. I´m talking about something completely diferent.
But thanks anyway!

[Teixeira]

... But what do we expect to find in an immortal body?

This is very important because sometimes I see people assuming that a body with the fabulous capacity to live forever, suffering from the same problems and limitations of a human body. With the only difference that it would be able (by some misterious reasons) to live forever...

The fact that some body is immortal should mean that something very special is operating inside him that allowed him to be immortal...

Now the question is, if the diference between the two kind of bodies is so great, what are the parameters that has changed and in what way? ...

But what happens to an immortal nature? Does an immortal needs to have an impulse towards reprodution? What kind of sexual live does he have? And with what purpose? ...

Great post Teixeila!

In case you have not heard, my research has produced serious answers to your questions by searching for and finding people whom I consider to be "immortals" living among us today.

I have some of my research posted on my main blog: http://Ben-Abba.com and my main podcast radio show http://Achieving-Immortality.com where you can find more detailed answers to your questions.

However to briefly summarize what I have found that relates to your questions:

1. Somewhere between a 55 year old to 80 year old looking body with equivalent energy level depending on current lifestyle.

2. Definitely something different inside the body ...

3. However mostly due to "programming" and "belief systems" versus diet, drugs, or genetic aberration.

4. They definitely have reproduced throughout their lives and often remark that it has helped them achieving longevity.

Here is a good start. I will check in as often as I can to keep the conversation going.

Thanks for your kind words.
My idea with this topic was not only to make questions. That is only a methodology. When I make questions I might have the anwsers.
Keep an eye on it and soon you will know what I mean.
(I already had noticed the interest of your ideas, including your blog).

[Luna]

What differences does it have from a normal body? will it affect its impulses such as reproducing?

depends!

For example, let's take on of this forum's favorite options of immortality: Nanobots running around in our blood stream fixing all the damage.

In this case, the difference is obviously, regeneration given by artificial nano-robots in our blood stream, working to regenerate and fix our body constantly.

How will it affect us? other than staying perfectly healthy, it won't.
Our skin will be perfect, nanites will fix skin damage, wrinkles, bla bla bla.
Muscles, bone density, obesity.. all at perfect maintenance.

But they wont affect our thoughts, hormones, programming, just repair things.

So that human will still feel the urge to have sex, reproduce, have fun.
That human will still have fear, pain.. perhaps even die due to trauma, so it might not be the perfect method, but it's quite close I guess.

Perfect method? well,l I guess if we could ascend like in stargate, star trek, star-whatever.. we won't die of trauma.
But will we? can we? who knows. maybe there are other methods though too!

Differences? I dunno, it's all depending on what goes inside us, chemical or energy signatures and signals, they created impulses, emotions and thoughts.

[Teixeira]

What differences does it have from a normal body? will it affect its impulses such as reproducing?

depends!

For example, let's take on of this forum's favorite options of immortality: Nanobots running around in our blood stream fixing all the damage.

In this case, the difference is obviously, regeneration given by artificial nano-robots in our blood stream, working to regenerate and fix our body constantly.

How will it affect us? other than staying perfectly healthy, it won't.
Our skin will be perfect, nanites will fix skin damage, wrinkles, bla bla bla.
Muscles, bone density, obesity.. all at perfect maintenance.

But they wont affect our thoughts, hormones, programming, just repair things.

So that human will still feel the urge to have sex, reproduce, have fun.
That human will still have fear, pain.. perhaps even die due to trauma, so it might not be the perfect method, but it's quite close I guess.

Perfect method? well,l I guess if we could ascend like in stargate, star trek, star-whatever.. we won't die of trauma.
But will we? can we? who knows. maybe there are other methods though too!

Differences? I dunno, it's all depending on what goes inside us, chemical or energy signatures and signals, they created impulses, emotions and thoughts.

You are wright about "human will still feel the urge to have sex..." But I´m not talking about humans! An immortal body can have zero impulse for sex and infinit pleasure in sex! (this means absolute freedom and absolute pleasure). You know, when we are talking about non-human natures sometimes we find things that are very hard to consider to a human mind (specially the features that has an infinit nature, because there is no such thing in a human nature). But that´s because we only know the human nature. If we experienced a non-human nature for five minutes, that would anwser all our doubts and we would realise how that can be possible! (even if we don´t understand how).
No immortal nature can be subjected to the pressure of sex or any other, because that is incompatible with the absolute freedom that an immortal body is suposed to have. He makes sex when he wants and not when the nature tells him to do! (human nature is telling that all the time!). On the other hand, because of the absolute superiority of his body, he can have a pleasure that humans cannot even dream about!
For the moment, I think this will give you some points to think about.
Thanks for your contribute!

[Luna]

I think you are wrong O_o
We do what we are signaled to do by our hormones, compulsions and other chemicals.

If you have nanobots repairing things or whatever, making you immortal - but your functioning, hormones, signaling and all is still the same.
You'd have a sex drive just like you had at age 20 or something,

If you are immortal you might get used to it or whatever, but if the nanites are repairing the system, maybe the signals will still be as strong and fresh as the first time and you won't really get used to it.

If you were immortal for five minutes, you wouldn't have experienced anything, won't have time to get used to anything either - so you won't learn anything from it, unless the body is amazingly different.

You don't experience immortality in 5 minutes.

Edited by Luna, 21 November 2009 - 06:09 AM.

[Teixeira]

I think you are wrong O_o
We do what we are signaled to do by our hormones, compulsions and other chemicals.

If you have nanobots repairing things or whatever, making you immortal - but your functioning, hormones, signaling and all is still the same.
You'd have a sex drive just like you had at age 20 or something,

If you are immortal you might get used to it or whatever, but if the nanites are repairing the system, maybe the signals will still be as strong and fresh as the first time and you won't really get used to it.

If you were immortal for five minutes, you wouldn't have experienced anything, won't have time to get used to anything either - so you won't learn anything from it, unless the body is amazingly different.

You don't experience immortality in 5 minutes.

Thanks for your ideas. Yes, you are right, I exagerated on the five minuts. Of course you would need more than five minuts to experience a number of things. But...five minuts would be enough for you to feel that "the body is amazingly different"!! And let me tell you something. How can you be sure that the phisiology (hormones, etc...) of an non-human body are equal to those of a human body? That is very unlikely to be so, otherwise what would be the great diferences between a human body and a non-human body?
A body like that, believe it or not, can have a sex experience at the age of 35, one million times better than a boy of 20!! (because the diferences are deep and not superficial and with no need for technology!).

Edited by Teixeira, 21 November 2009 - 05:35 PM.

[Cyberbrain]

Thanks for your ideas. Yes, you are right, I exagerated on the five minuts. Of course you would need more than five minuts to experience a number of things. But...five minuts would be enough for you to feel that "the body is amazingly different"!! And let me tell you something. How can you be sure that the phisiology (hormones, etc...) of an non-human body are equal to those of a human body? That is very unlikely to be so, otherwise what would be the great diferences between a human body and a non-human body?

How do you know there is such a thing as a "non-human body" or that life continues after death?

[Luna]

"And let me tell you something. How can you be sure that the phisiology (hormones, etc...) of an non-human body are equal to those of a human body? That is very unlikely to be so"

Note what I said, taken the case all is different is that nanites are fixing you constantly, nothing is different.

You are simply constantly age 20 or whatever, with more memories and experiences.

The body doesn't feel amazing.

You fall from a bridge, hit the surface, it's just as scary as for someone without the nanites, just as painful. Difference is you are kept alive and brought back to full health.

What you are refering is more of a whole different body, super abilities, suepr muscles, hearing, sensations. That body can be mortal too and still feel like what you are expecting.

You can be an immortal worm for all I care and not feel any different than a worm.

[Teixeira]

Thanks for your ideas. Yes, you are right, I exagerated on the five minuts. Of course you would need more than five minuts to experience a number of things. But...five minuts would be enough for you to feel that "the body is amazingly different"!! And let me tell you something. How can you be sure that the phisiology (hormones, etc...) of an non-human body are equal to those of a human body? That is very unlikely to be so, otherwise what would be the great diferences between a human body and a non-human body?

How do you know there is such a thing as a "non-human body" or that life continues after death?

Those are very good questions! I have been put against the wall sooner than I thought! If I answer that, yes I have the same garanties of the existance of a non-human body that I have about the existance of human bodies, what happens next? May be you would like to ask: can you prove it? Well yes, but certainly not by internet! (the people around me is full of proves!).By the internet I can only give you informations about that nature and you can thing about it and ask yourself: is this good? does this makes sense? could we imagine these properties? (I only mentioned a very small part of it). The most fantastic features have not been mentioned yet!
So far, the scientists and the polititians are paralised with the reports that have been given to them. That´s not my fault if this is a secret. It seems that everybody is affraid of the consequences of this discover and what can I do about it? Well I´m discussing this in a Forum. It´s already something. That´s what I can do for the moment. And I hope you can be excited with the idea of the discover of a non-human nature (one million times better than a human one).

[Luna]

I am quite sure no one is afraid if life continues after death, on the contrary, we'd be delighted - but we'd probably not care to die and try to examine that option.

As for is there non human body? how do you define human? What evidence do you speak of (and what option where you referring to?)

Seriously, human is not all that special nor all that poor.
You can say superman is human, but immortal and super strong, can fly, can go into the sun and leave in one piece. You can say he is alien, but then he might be human and we might be alien.

There is no one single definition of non-human body, like I said previously, if you wish a djinni to experience inhuman body you might just end up as a worm.

If you ask to experience immortal body, you might just be the same but find that you never die. Trust me, it won't be all that "WOW" to be in that body until you fall of that bridge and find out you are still alive and in one piece.

Edited by Luna, 22 November 2009 - 03:55 PM.

[Teixeira]

I am quite sure no one is afraid if life continues after death, on the contrary, we'd be delighted - but we'd probably not care to die and try to examine that option.

As for is there non human body? how do you define human? What evidence do you speak of (and what option where you referring to?)

Seriously, human is not all that special nor all that poor.
You can say superman is human, but immortal and super strong, can fly, can go into the sun and leave in one piece. You can say he is alien, but then he might be human and we might be alien.

There is no one single definition of non-human body, like I said previously, if you wish a djinni to experience inhuman body you might just end up as a worm.

If you ask to experience immortal body, you might just be the same but find that you never die. Trust me, it won't be all that "WOW" to be in that body until you fall of that bridge and find out you are still alive and in one piece.

Thanks for your interest in this subject. It´s for people like you that I joined this forum.
Let me try to explain to you the question about human and non human nature. The question about the name is not important. I could call it "super human nature" or something like that. What is important is the "inside". Start with a human nature (we all know what that is I supose). Than subject that human nature to a special process where it´s "injected" with infinite information in a limited amount of time (this possibility can be mathematicaly demonstrated). Than you start to observe what happens. It happens three kind of modifications:
A) The form and many other aspects remain the same;
B) Some human properties has now a dramaticaly better performances (never experienced in the past);
C) New properties emerge that had never been observed in any human being!
Now, since the original (common) human nature had suffered such dramatig changes, what are we going to call it to respect the differences? Does it matter the name? You know what, as a mathematician, in my reports I had called the human nature, nature N1 and the other, nature N2! As you see, the names are not the important things here. But we cannot utilise the same name for two kind of natures with so many important diferences!
I steel say that comparing "nature N2" with "nature N1" is like comparing a Ferrari with a Chevrolet! Or like comparing a palace with a caravan!
I´m not saying that nature N2 is immortal what I´m saying is that it is not a normal human nature, thats all.

[Luna]

Inject infinite information? how is that an immortal body? more like very much loaded hard drive.
I am not the best of people when it comes to math, but I have no idea how you can put infinite in math. - I rather not argue about it.
The content of the knowledge I am not going to argue either, but just as a statement, it could be just the numbers from 1 to never stop forward, it could be anything else.

Infinite knowledge, considering the person is capable of containing it, doesn't affect the body performance or whatever.
Actually, without modifications to the body, the person would probably lose ability to function because of overflowing information.
If he could control it, well, can he use it well? he could simply end up as google or some less able list/database of information (of whatever sort).

He could go insane, or confused, or whatever (back again, can he handle it?)

I think that you are mixing your latest explanation with the original question, I see nothing related to it beyond "experience 5 minutes in immortal body", which is barely an experience related to it, more like experience the memories gathered from infinite, something..

Doesn't make any sense and doesn't seem to matter much, the two are barely related.
Do remember, as immortal, you usually don't experience everything in one second, you live every day just the same, but there is always another day, I like that

Now, immortality or not, let's say yes, add on top of that umm.. the ability to move at light speed, experience more things every second (heighten sensation?), the ability to understand things more quickly.
That will probably affect a person, but it's not all that related to the other.

[Teixeira]

Inject infinite information? how is that an immortal body? more like very much loaded hard drive.
I am not the best of people when it comes to math, but I have no idea how you can put infinite in math. - I rather not argue about it.
The content of the knowledge I am not going to argue either, but just as a statement, it could be just the numbers from 1 to never stop forward, it could be anything else.

Infinite knowledge, considering the person is capable of containing it, doesn't affect the body performance or whatever.
Actually, without modifications to the body, the person would probably lose ability to function because of overflowing information.
If he could control it, well, can he use it well? he could simply end up as google or some less able list/database of information (of whatever sort).

He could go insane, or confused, or whatever (back again, can he handle it?)

I think that you are mixing your latest explanation with the original question, I see nothing related to it beyond "experience 5 minutes in immortal body", which is barely an experience related to it, more like experience the memories gathered from infinite, something..

Doesn't make any sense and doesn't seem to matter much, the two are barely related.
Do remember, as immortal, you usually don't experience everything in one second, you live every day just the same, but there is always another day, I like that

Now, immortality or not, let's say yes, add on top of that umm.. the ability to move at light speed, experience more things every second (heighten sensation?), the ability to understand things more quickly.
That will probably affect a person, but it's not all that related to the other.

You have quite interesting questions as usual. I´ll try to start with the first ones.
As a matter of fact I don´t know if the amount of information is infinite or only an enormous amount of information. The question is that infinite information fit very well the theoretically model. Besides, that might not be so important.
That information infinite or not, penetrate inside the mind- in a very quickly way- and affected the entire body in such a fantastic way than no words can express it! So, the entire body and mind were transformed in a matter of seconds! (don´t ask me how the informations transformed the body and mind because I don´t know). Anyway, that is the most perfect state I can imagine (and only because I have experienced it!).
The next day my human and common properties had changed radically, as I has already told you.And the question is: if some properties are dramatically better, and others do not exist in a human body, I can certanlly say that this nature not only is far better tha an human one, but is no longer a human nature. Otherwise, super-man was only a simple human beeing and we had no way to explain his strange properties! Of course we got here an increase in onthological level no mather what the consequenses! If this body is immortal or not, as I´ve told you before, I cannot garantee! What can be garantee is that we are before a nature that is vastlly superior to a human nature. That´s the only thing that can be garantee and that´s not irrelevant!
Let´s now turn to the mathematical model to demonstrate that an infinite amount of information can be "injected" in a finite amount of time.
Take, for instance, the function y= tan x. when x belongs to the finite interval [- 3.14/2; +3.14/2], the values of y go from - infinite to + infinite, according to what we pretended to demonstrate. (A graphic woud be fine but we don´t have those facilities here).
Because the amout of information is of "biblical proportions", the brain couldn´t handle it in the conscience level, you are absolutly right! But those informations go to a sub-level where they can modify the body performances but not to disturb the conscience level of the brain, otherwise the brain could not work or it would go insane, as you said (very well!). Anyway there is allways a period of time where the "system" in instable (you don´t change a nature for free, you have to pay the price!).
For the moment that´s what I have to tell you even knowing there are hundreds of other things to be explainned...

Edited by Teixeira, 27 November 2009 - 04:07 PM.

[Teixeira]

Thanks for your ideas. Yes, you are right, I exagerated on the five minuts. Of course you would need more than five minuts to experience a number of things. But...five minuts would be enough for you to feel that "the body is amazingly different"!! And let me tell you something. How can you be sure that the phisiology (hormones, etc...) of an non-human body are equal to those of a human body? That is very unlikely to be so, otherwise what would be the great diferences between a human body and a non-human body?

How do you know there is such a thing as a "non-human body" or that life continues after death?

Let me utilise the logic of mathematics to explain it to you:
Let N1 be a set like so: N1={1,2,3,4,5} (N1=human nature)
Now let N2 = {1,2,3,5,6,10,12}
Now the problem is :are this two sets equal? Answer: NO.
Do they share some elements in common? Answer: YES.
But there are elements in N2 like 5 and 6 that are increments of the correspondent 4 and 5 of N1.
And ther are elements in N2 that do not exist in N1, like 10 and 12.
So, what is the conclusion? The two sets are not equal(*) even if they keep some elements in common.
(*): we cannot established a biunivoque correspondence between it´s elements (mathematicaly speaking).
So, if we come to a nature that keeps many elements in common with the human nature, but have some elements (very) improved, and some others absolutlly new, what can we conclude? This nature not only is not human but is far superior to human nature! I do not see any logic escape from this.
I don´t know if this answer your question.
I don´t think it´s possible to theorise with security about life after death. So, I speak of what I know, the rest I don´t know at all!
(Let me tell you that when I was searching for mathematical models of such a complex process like that, I started with simple models of the singularity (death). But when I realised, I was in the middle of complex geometries of rotating black holes with inverted fluxes of time in the middle!!) (note that the mathematical models can applied to very different situations of real life).

[Luna]

Ok, now prove set 2 exists O_o.

Honestly, we know there is non human body, I had 4 cats! non of them were human.

Question is again, what an improved human (to non human) body be like, how would we feel if we were from Krypton, or.. Asgard! (Stargate). Or even Ascended.

Anyways, worry more about getting there than what you might get eventually, that will be the least of the problem if you get there (at least that!)

[KalaBeth]

I do believe Luna is correct in saying that if the only difference is indefinite lifespan, the human experience will be little different - at least at first.

Social/cultural differences would probably arise over time though.. possibly becoming more risk averse, as "well I'm going to die anyway" would cease to be a motivator. On the other hand, we already experience the "rats in a crowded cage" phenomenon of dehumanizing each other in a crowded anonymous environment - for all the talk of "there's plenty of room on the earth" - we already experience the bad effects of crowding in some places. There's no reason to think more of us won't lead to the same.

More interesting will be if the "stick in the mud" effect - the degree to which older generations are able to adapt (or not) to the changing world around them. Having 60's hippies rubbing shoulders with WWII vets was fireworks enough in 1990.... when that span is not one of a generation or two, but centuries... what happens? Will an ever-young constantly rejuvenated brain keep adapting with changing conditions in the world better? Or are we permanently imprinted with the place and time of our upbringing, destined to be a relic as the generations pile on?

Both points long discussed here I imagine - my apologies to the long-time members.


The biggest changes in the human experience I don't think will come from lifespan though, but rather our communication. If and when it happens, the first implantable "Bluetooth headset" analogue will be an incredible watershed if and when it becomes adopted.. there's a serious potential down the road I think to nudge us to a much more 'distributed' personal identity that's ... actually kind of disturbing to me. But then, I was born in the 20th c.

[Teixeira]

Ok, now prove set 2 exists O_o.

Honestly, we know there is non human body, I had 4 cats! non of them were human.

Question is again, what an improved human (to non human) body be like, how would we feel if we were from Krypton, or.. Asgard! (Stargate). Or even Ascended.

Anyways, worry more about getting there than what you might get eventually, that will be the least of the problem if you get there (at least that!)

Luna I try to do it in the scientific world but the only thing they gave me were escuses not to do anything!! I show a lot of strange properties to my friends (and family) and they believe everything I told them because they saw everything with they very onw eyes! When I went to the streets with 100% N2 nature, people looked to me as if I came from Krypton (so to speak). But I cannot send those experiments by internet! And I would like to do it! You have a dificulty to admit a "super human nature", and the only thing I could do was to show you that nature and it´s wonderfull properties, but of course not by internet. There´s nothing I can do about it.
"we know there is non human body", what do you mean by that?
I will give you all the properties of a "super human nature", what I have not donne so far, because we must go step by step. (and I must not make a post of 50 pages!)
To keep the suspense, I can tell you that such a nature can (and do) produce modifications in physical equipments (of electromagnetic nature) and in human brains, that is so simply to verify and measure, and the scientists had refuse to do it with absurd excuses! (like: "we don´t work on that field"!!!). So the science is affraid to confirm that a "super human nature" had been discovered! Because that would put the science and the politics/society in a great mass. They simply don´t know how to handle this!

[Teixeira]

Let´s point in annother direction in this question about indefinite lifespan or immortal bodys.
Supose you are walking in the street and one person with the caractheristics specified above, walk by you.
What feature (of any kind) of that special beeing can you imagine to attract your attention?
(Or by other words, can such a person be detectable?)

Edited by Teixeira, 05 December 2009 - 11:00 PM.

[Teixeira]

Let´s point in annother direction in this question about indefinite lifespan or immortal bodys.
Supose you are walking in the street and one person with the caractheristics specified above, walk by you.
What feature (of any kind) of that special beeing can you imagine to attract your attention?
(Or by other words, can such a person be detectable?)

Let´s try to clarify this. What can I detect in a person some meters away from me that make me ask something like: "There´s something very strange in that guy!" (even if we don´t know what that is or what it means).
We can detect something (at distance) by two basic ways: 1) we see something different, or 2) we feel something different ( this second item suppose there is some kind of a FIELD and there is an interaction between us and the field ( of course we notice that interaction).
Otherwise, we can´t detect anything special.
(to be continued...)

[Luna]

O_o
We won't feel or see anything different about that person, other than perhaps being over-confident - And that happens so many times so that we will never be able to imagine that it is related.

You mentioned change in electro-magnetic fields, well test it in a lab and see if it's true, if you just say "I think that it is.." everyone will laugh, unless you have results.

The mind is very capable of feeling things which are not true, you can feel immortal, you can feel godly, yet - not be any of those.

If you really experienced "everything in a second" suddenly and gained so much knowledge and it was not a brain stimulated feeling, people would expect you to be different, to come with secrets of the universe.
If you claim to be able to feel immortal, well, do you still bleed when cut?

I am not expecting anyone to turn "super" just because they believe in it. When I was young I could use my brain to feel as if I have a tail and wings, I actually felt them, I felt them bumping in between the doorway! I can still do that if I wanted to.
But I know I am playing brain tricks, not falling for them.

In some "magician" shows they make you feel you are being touched without touching you, sometimes they make you feel things in parts you don't have. Find a way to prove what you say and that it is different from a trance someone smoking marijuana might feel and people will believe you.

[Teixeira]

O_o
We won't feel or see anything different about that person, other than perhaps being over-confident - And that happens so many times so that we will never be able to imagine that it is related.

You mentioned change in electro-magnetic fields, well test it in a lab and see if it's true, if you just say "I think that it is.." everyone will laugh, unless you have results.

The mind is very capable of feeling things which are not true, you can feel immortal, you can feel godly, yet - not be any of those.

If you really experienced "everything in a second" suddenly and gained so much knowledge and it was not a brain stimulated feeling, people would expect you to be different, to come with secrets of the universe.
If you claim to be able to feel immortal, well, do you still bleed when cut?

I am not expecting anyone to turn "super" just because they believe in it. When I was young I could use my brain to feel as if I have a tail and wings, I actually felt them, I felt them bumping in between the doorway! I can still do that if I wanted to.
But I know I am playing brain tricks, not falling for them.

In some "magician" shows they make you feel you are being touched without touching you, sometimes they make you feel things in parts you don't have. Find a way to prove what you say and that it is different from a trance someone smoking marijuana might feel and people will believe you.

You are right abnout "over-confident" but I can forget about that, because many people can field over-confident for too many reasons.
I have knowledge enough, as far as science goes, to not comit naive mistakes like not testing with all the scientific methodology, the facts available. For instance, the number of observers and the number of times that the phenomena is observed. When the phenomenon becames invariant with the observers and the time of observation, you can be "scientificaly" sure that it is real. When the number of observations goes to thousands or hundreds, is there any space for reasonnable doubts?
I said to physicians: let´s perform this experiment with this basic equipment. They told me: that´s very interesting but we don´t work on that field(!?). Of course they don´t work on that field because it´s brand new and nobody in the world works on it!! (interactions between a human brain and high pressure sodium steam lamps). The experiment is so simple that I could do it in my home, but then everybody could doubt my results! So I came to the only logic conclusion: they are affraid of the consequences after the demonstration of the existence of new properties in a new type of human nature!! And they are not small. They are big enough to put scientists making a fool of themselves, just to save the "Status Quo" as long as they can. And guess what, so far, I have cooperate with them because I myself am not sure if or how we could control the situation. The problem is very, very serious. A lot of people saw that with their own eyes. That´s why I preffer to talk about it than "go to war" with beings without knowing the magnitude of the damage. (it would be so irresponsable like playing games with nuclear weapons - believe me I know what I´m talking about). This is it, weather we like it or not.

[Luna]

O_o
We won't feel or see anything different about that person, other than perhaps being over-confident - And that happens so many times so that we will never be able to imagine that it is related.

You mentioned change in electro-magnetic fields, well test it in a lab and see if it's true, if you just say "I think that it is.." everyone will laugh, unless you have results.

The mind is very capable of feeling things which are not true, you can feel immortal, you can feel godly, yet - not be any of those.

If you really experienced "everything in a second" suddenly and gained so much knowledge and it was not a brain stimulated feeling, people would expect you to be different, to come with secrets of the universe.
If you claim to be able to feel immortal, well, do you still bleed when cut?

I am not expecting anyone to turn "super" just because they believe in it. When I was young I could use my brain to feel as if I have a tail and wings, I actually felt them, I felt them bumping in between the doorway! I can still do that if I wanted to.
But I know I am playing brain tricks, not falling for them.

In some "magician" shows they make you feel you are being touched without touching you, sometimes they make you feel things in parts you don't have. Find a way to prove what you say and that it is different from a trance someone smoking marijuana might feel and people will believe you.

You are right abnout "over-confident" but I can forget about that, because many people can field over-confident for too many reasons.
I have knowledge enough, as far as science goes, to not comit naive mistakes like not testing with all the scientific methodology, the facts available. For instance, the number of observers and the number of times that the phenomena is observed. When the phenomenon becames invariant with the observers and the time of observation, you can be "scientificaly" sure that it is real. When the number of observations goes to thousands or hundreds, is there any space for reasonnable doubts?
I said to physicians: let´s perform this experiment with this basic equipment. They told me: that´s very interesting but we don´t work on that field(!?). Of course they don´t work on that field because it´s brand new and nobody in the world works on it!! (interactions between a human brain and high pressure sodium steam lamps). The experiment is so simple that I could do it in my home, but then everybody could doubt my results! So I came to the only logic conclusion: they are affraid of the consequences after the demonstration of the existence of new properties in a new type of human nature!! And they are not small. They are big enough to put scientists making a fool of themselves, just to save the "Status Quo" as long as they can. And guess what, so far, I have cooperate with them because I myself am not sure if or how we could control the situation. The problem is very, very serious. A lot of people saw that with their own eyes. That´s why I preffer to talk about it than "go to war" with beings without knowing the magnitude of the damage. (it would be so irresponsable like playing games with nuclear weapons - believe me I know what I´m talking about). This is it, weather we like it or not.

I said that myself, there are plenty people with over confidence. - no need to disregard this that have been disregarded.

" For instance, the number of observers and the number of times that the phenomena is observed. When the phenomenon becames invariant with the observers and the time of observation, you can be "scientificaly" sure that it is real. When the number of observations goes to thousands or hundreds, is there any space for reasonnable doubts? "

Now you might not connect to the phrase because you are probably religious in some way, but just because people believe in santa doesn't make it that santa exists (and please don't come to me and say "because we believe in santa we make santa and people dress as him.." I meant THE santa).
People actually DID test things like, near death experiences and found that it's all chemicals and even managed to replicate it in safe conditions by inducing chemicals and some states.
People believe in many things, FEEL many things, even see things. No, it doesn't mean it's exists. at all.

"they told me: that´s very interesting but we don´t work on that field(!?). Of course they don´t work on that field because it´s brand new and nobody in the world works on it!! (interactions between a human brain and high pressure sodium steam lamps). The experiment is so simple that I could do it in my home, but then everybody could doubt my results! So I came to the only logic conclusion: they are affraid of the consequences after the demonstration of the existence of new properties in a new type of human nature!"

No, they are not afraid, it's interesting (maybe, to some, probably) but they don't work in the field, they are not afraid from finding something cool and awesome about human nature, more like skeptic of it and won't bother, but they might just not work in the field.. and even if they did, they might just not bother because they are skeptic,.

"A lot of people saw that with their own eyes. "

Saw what?

[Teixeira]

O_o
We won't feel or see anything different about that person, other than perhaps being over-confident - And that happens so many times so that we will never be able to imagine that it is related.

You mentioned change in electro-magnetic fields, well test it in a lab and see if it's true, if you just say "I think that it is.." everyone will laugh, unless you have results.

The mind is very capable of feeling things which are not true, you can feel immortal, you can feel godly, yet - not be any of those.

If you really experienced "everything in a second" suddenly and gained so much knowledge and it was not a brain stimulated feeling, people would expect you to be different, to come with secrets of the universe.
If you claim to be able to feel immortal, well, do you still bleed when cut?

I am not expecting anyone to turn "super" just because they believe in it. When I was young I could use my brain to feel as if I have a tail and wings, I actually felt them, I felt them bumping in between the doorway! I can still do that if I wanted to.
But I know I am playing brain tricks, not falling for them.

In some "magician" shows they make you feel you are being touched without touching you, sometimes they make you feel things in parts you don't have. Find a way to prove what you say and that it is different from a trance someone smoking marijuana might feel and people will believe you.

You are right abnout "over-confident" but I can forget about that, because many people can field over-confident for too many reasons.
I have knowledge enough, as far as science goes, to not comit naive mistakes like not testing with all the scientific methodology, the facts available. For instance, the number of observers and the number of times that the phenomena is observed. When the phenomenon becames invariant with the observers and the time of observation, you can be "scientificaly" sure that it is real. When the number of observations goes to thousands or hundreds, is there any space for reasonnable doubts?
I said to physicians: let´s perform this experiment with this basic equipment. They told me: that´s very interesting but we don´t work on that field(!?). Of course they don´t work on that field because it´s brand new and nobody in the world works on it!! (interactions between a human brain and high pressure sodium steam lamps). The experiment is so simple that I could do it in my home, but then everybody could doubt my results! So I came to the only logic conclusion: they are affraid of the consequences after the demonstration of the existence of new properties in a new type of human nature!! And they are not small. They are big enough to put scientists making a fool of themselves, just to save the "Status Quo" as long as they can. And guess what, so far, I have cooperate with them because I myself am not sure if or how we could control the situation. The problem is very, very serious. A lot of people saw that with their own eyes. That´s why I preffer to talk about it than "go to war" with beings without knowing the magnitude of the damage. (it would be so irresponsable like playing games with nuclear weapons - believe me I know what I´m talking about). This is it, weather we like it or not.

I said that myself, there are plenty people with over confidence. - no need to disregard this that have been disregarded.

" For instance, the number of observers and the number of times that the phenomena is observed. When the phenomenon becames invariant with the observers and the time of observation, you can be "scientificaly" sure that it is real. When the number of observations goes to thousands or hundreds, is there any space for reasonnable doubts? "

Now you might not connect to the phrase because you are probably religious in some way, but just because people believe in santa doesn't make it that santa exists (and please don't come to me and say "because we believe in santa we make santa and people dress as him.." I meant THE santa).
People actually DID test things like, near death experiences and found that it's all chemicals and even managed to replicate it in safe conditions by inducing chemicals and some states.
People believe in many things, FEEL many things, even see things. No, it doesn't mean it's exists. at all.

"they told me: that´s very interesting but we don´t work on that field(!?). Of course they don´t work on that field because it´s brand new and nobody in the world works on it!! (interactions between a human brain and high pressure sodium steam lamps). The experiment is so simple that I could do it in my home, but then everybody could doubt my results! So I came to the only logic conclusion: they are affraid of the consequences after the demonstration of the existence of new properties in a new type of human nature!"

No, they are not afraid, it's interesting (maybe, to some, probably) but they don't work in the field, they are not afraid from finding something cool and awesome about human nature, more like skeptic of it and won't bother, but they might just not work in the field.. and even if they did, they might just not bother because they are skeptic,.

"A lot of people saw that with their own eyes. "

Saw what?

"Saw what?". Saw that the problem is serious (because the facts that they observed).
Luna, it was not my intention to discuss these matters in a personal basis. I would preffer to discuss the theories and the mathematics of this topics.
I think it´s the best to do because nobody can prove or show anything by internet. (anyway, about the skeptic attitudes, there are some exceptions-assuming the skepticism is true- I have discussed several matters with scientists, that invited me for conferences in different subjects of their research-"but they were not working on this field").

[Luna]

In our physics forum there is a discussion about the universe.
There are so many different theories people believe in and everyone is so sure in their theories, and they are ALL proved mathematically.
The thing is that you can prove it is possible mathematically if you have extra or specific variables, but you can prove that you have that, you can't prove it exists or that you are right.

So like I said earlier, you mentioned two sets, now how do you prove set 2 exists?

Do you see what I mean?
"Ok, sure, logical, we can have two sets.. but do we have them?"

Besides, you are talking about "nonhuman ?nature?", we first started, what can we expect from an immortal body, now you are saying what you saw or experienced in a non immortal body? or what you might feel and why you are right? and then you confused immortal with just one with infinite information.

Does it lead into anywhere? Kate and I sticked to one opinion, I can't remember how many others were there.

In our opinions just an immortal body won't be expected anything but to live, not to die. You won't recognize them at all if you saw them next to you, not even if they talked to you. You can be that body and not know it until you were in a situation (or more than one) where a normal person would have died.
Even then, you will still be yourself, you will be confused - why did you not die? how come? how much can you survive? you'll probably need to wait SO MANY (billions?) years to realize that you can survive ANYTHING, that your fear system would be completely messed up.

You could be the most stupid person in earth, but yet be immortal.

Then add cyborg technology, intelligence increasing chips, nanotechnology, biotechnology.
You'll be fast, you'll be strong, you might be able to fly, to shapeshift.. you'll be able to understand things faster, see more, react faster, remember more, think faster.. Only when they do those things related to intelligence, memory, understanding.. only then you'll be somewhat special in feeling. Otherwise you are immortal, strong, shape shifts.. but feels pretty much the same as you observe the world (with a few differences from what you learnt you can do), still human.

That is my opinion.
Now if you claim "nonhuman, super nature exists and it exists right now and human can experience it", you can't just say it exists and expect people to go "ohhh awesome!"
I describe a gradual improvement that gets people out of the human shells, I don't say "there is set one, now there is set two, see how it makes sense?" but then I give no hint of set 2 even existing, other than just saying so.

Personally, I never saw or experienced set 2 in my life.

When I asked you what did you see, I meant regarding to its existence that you are so sure of.
If it exists, if mere humans can experience it like you claim so, we'd hear of at least one superman out there.
Otherwise, like I said, scientists did experiment with things like NDE. They also experienced with Out of Body Experience and even with the feeling that people get in religious moments where they feel suddenly enlightened and know everything.
These feelings are feelings and have been replicated in a lab.
Unless you can prove it is more than feelings, who cares of your magnetic field changed? You feel something, can you do something now? you claim the feeling is so great, like injecting infinite knowledge in one second.. great! but you do you really have infinite knowledge? If you do, show it, otherwise who cares about your magnetic field and what does it have to do with anything?
Prove us that set 2 exists, don't just say it does.

[Teixeira]

In our physics forum there is a discussion about the universe.
There are so many different theories people believe in and everyone is so sure in their theories, and they are ALL proved mathematically.
The thing is that you can prove it is possible mathematically if you have extra or specific variables, but you can prove that you have that, you can't prove it exists or that you are right.

So like I said earlier, you mentioned two sets, now how do you prove set 2 exists?

Do you see what I mean?
"Ok, sure, logical, we can have two sets.. but do we have them?"

Besides, you are talking about "nonhuman ?nature?", we first started, what can we expect from an immortal body, now you are saying what you saw or experienced in a non immortal body? or what you might feel and why you are right? and then you confused immortal with just one with infinite information.

Does it lead into anywhere? Kate and I sticked to one opinion, I can't remember how many others were there.

In our opinions just an immortal body won't be expected anything but to live, not to die. You won't recognize them at all if you saw them next to you, not even if they talked to you. You can be that body and not know it until you were in a situation (or more than one) where a normal person would have died.
Even then, you will still be yourself, you will be confused - why did you not die? how come? how much can you survive? you'll probably need to wait SO MANY (billions?) years to realize that you can survive ANYTHING, that your fear system would be completely messed up.

You could be the most stupid person in earth, but yet be immortal.

Then add cyborg technology, intelligence increasing chips, nanotechnology, biotechnology.
You'll be fast, you'll be strong, you might be able to fly, to shapeshift.. you'll be able to understand things faster, see more, react faster, remember more, think faster.. Only when they do those things related to intelligence, memory, understanding.. only then you'll be somewhat special in feeling. Otherwise you are immortal, strong, shape shifts.. but feels pretty much the same as you observe the world (with a few differences from what you learnt you can do), still human.

That is my opinion.
Now if you claim "nonhuman, super nature exists and it exists right now and human can experience it", you can't just say it exists and expect people to go "ohhh awesome!"
I describe a gradual improvement that gets people out of the human shells, I don't say "there is set one, now there is set two, see how it makes sense?" but then I give no hint of set 2 even existing, other than just saying so.

Personally, I never saw or experienced set 2 in my life.

When I asked you what did you see, I meant regarding to its existence that you are so sure of.
If it exists, if mere humans can experience it like you claim so, we'd hear of at least one superman out there.
Otherwise, like I said, scientists did experiment with things like NDE. They also experienced with Out of Body Experience and even with the feeling that people get in religious moments where they feel suddenly enlightened and know everything.
These feelings are feelings and have been replicated in a lab.
Unless you can prove it is more than feelings, who cares of your magnetic field changed? You feel something, can you do something now? you claim the feeling is so great, like injecting infinite knowledge in one second.. great! but you do you really have infinite knowledge? If you do, show it, otherwise who cares about your magnetic field and what does it have to do with anything?
Prove us that set 2 exists, don't just say it does.

That´s a lot of questions what proves that you are interested on the subject. Great! I´ll try to answer at least some of the questions.
About the nature: It can be demonstrated (when and if somebody give me the opportunity) that the human nature (mine, for the time beeing) can be modified in a very significant way. The result of those modifications can no longer be called a "common human nature" (otherwise even a rat could have a human nature). The word, as I told you, is not important: "super human nature" or any other name would be fine! The important thing is that we have two different natures. N1 is not equal to N2 because the properties diverge too much. To prove to you that "set 2" exists would be a piece of cake if you spend some time nearby me (if you trust your eyes, your brain and your own equipment).
1) A human brain does not have the capacity of direct interference in annother brain (causing deep sleep in one/two minuts, sometimes severe brain disturbances that look like epilleptic attacks, and general nervous disturbance, like euphory or others...).
2) A human brain does not have the capacity to interfeere with public lamps in a way that the relation of causality (between the presence of the brain and lamps malfunction) can be mathematicaly proven.
3) When somebody with a "common human nature" goes to the streets, does not put everybody looking at him, because of the field interference with other brains, and because the look of his eyes is so different that everybody noticed it! (I can be so ignored as if I was dressig like a clown).
4) The other properties that can be verified inside the body can only be detected with sophisticated laboratory equipment, if it is possible (I don´t know).
The amount of diferences is so great, that I don´t know how we can still call it a "common human nature" (except for some "details", so to speak).
As you can imagine this is a very dellicated matter and that´s why the scientists and politicians don´t know what to do with this (and me neather).
It is not possible to demonstrate that a certain body is immortal (by his properties), by the simple reason that nobody in the world knows what are those properties.
So, the only thing that can be proved is that a certain body is "not exactly human" and nothing else!
I hope I have gave you some anwsers to your questions.

[Teixeira]

O_o
We won't feel or see anything different about that person, other than perhaps being over-confident - And that happens so many times so that we will never be able to imagine that it is related.

You mentioned change in electro-magnetic fields, well test it in a lab and see if it's true, if you just say "I think that it is.." everyone will laugh, unless you have results.

The mind is very capable of feeling things which are not true, you can feel immortal, you can feel godly, yet - not be any of those.

If you really experienced "everything in a second" suddenly and gained so much knowledge and it was not a brain stimulated feeling, people would expect you to be different, to come with secrets of the universe.
If you claim to be able to feel immortal, well, do you still bleed when cut?

I am not expecting anyone to turn "super" just because they believe in it. When I was young I could use my brain to feel as if I have a tail and wings, I actually felt them, I felt them bumping in between the doorway! I can still do that if I wanted to.
But I know I am playing brain tricks, not falling for them.

In some "magician" shows they make you feel you are being touched without touching you, sometimes they make you feel things in parts you don't have. Find a way to prove what you say and that it is different from a trance someone smoking marijuana might feel and people will believe you.

You are right abnout "over-confident" but I can forget about that, because many people can field over-confident for too many reasons.
I have knowledge enough, as far as science goes, to not comit naive mistakes like not testing with all the scientific methodology, the facts available. For instance, the number of observers and the number of times that the phenomena is observed. When the phenomenon becames invariant with the observers and the time of observation, you can be "scientificaly" sure that it is real. When the number of observations goes to thousands or hundreds, is there any space for reasonnable doubts?
I said to physicians: let´s perform this experiment with this basic equipment. They told me: that´s very interesting but we don´t work on that field(!?). Of course they don´t work on that field because it´s brand new and nobody in the world works on it!! (interactions between a human brain and high pressure sodium steam lamps). The experiment is so simple that I could do it in my home, but then everybody could doubt my results! So I came to the only logic conclusion: they are affraid of the consequences after the demonstration of the existence of new properties in a new type of human nature!! And they are not small. They are big enough to put scientists making a fool of themselves, just to save the "Status Quo" as long as they can. And guess what, so far, I have cooperate with them because I myself am not sure if or how we could control the situation. The problem is very, very serious. A lot of people saw that with their own eyes. That´s why I preffer to talk about it than "go to war" with beings without knowing the magnitude of the damage. (it would be so irresponsable like playing games with nuclear weapons - believe me I know what I´m talking about). This is it, weather we like it or not.

I said that myself, there are plenty people with over confidence. - no need to disregard this that have been disregarded.

" For instance, the number of observers and the number of times that the phenomena is observed. When the phenomenon becames invariant with the observers and the time of observation, you can be "scientificaly" sure that it is real. When the number of observations goes to thousands or hundreds, is there any space for reasonnable doubts? "

Now you might not connect to the phrase because you are probably religious in some way, but just because people believe in santa doesn't make it that santa exists (and please don't come to me and say "because we believe in santa we make santa and people dress as him.." I meant THE santa).
People actually DID test things like, near death experiences and found that it's all chemicals and even managed to replicate it in safe conditions by inducing chemicals and some states.
People believe in many things, FEEL many things, even see things. No, it doesn't mean it's exists. at all.

"they told me: that´s very interesting but we don´t work on that field(!?). Of course they don´t work on that field because it´s brand new and nobody in the world works on it!! (interactions between a human brain and high pressure sodium steam lamps). The experiment is so simple that I could do it in my home, but then everybody could doubt my results! So I came to the only logic conclusion: they are affraid of the consequences after the demonstration of the existence of new properties in a new type of human nature!"

No, they are not afraid, it's interesting (maybe, to some, probably) but they don't work in the field, they are not afraid from finding something cool and awesome about human nature, more like skeptic of it and won't bother, but they might just not work in the field.. and even if they did, they might just not bother because they are skeptic,.
"A lot of people saw that with their own eyes. "

Saw what?

"People believe in many things, FEEL many things, even see things. No, it doesn't mean it's exists. at all"
If you go that way, how can a scientist trust his equipment? He might be seeing things! Things that doesn´t exist. When I saw equipment behaving in a strange way and the people around me saw exactly the same is it reasonable to doubt everybody and everyting? You can apply that to the scientists in the Lab: the equipment is fooling everybody! And when we have verified everything thousands of times can we still think "reasonable" that everybody have been mistaken thousands of times?? Can anybody believe that? If it is like so, how do I know that the street exists and that I wasn't tricked? We are in radical philosophy positions! science couldn´t exist if we follow those philosophies. So, we must be reasonable even if we "can´t believe what we are seeing"!!

[Luna]

You are just saying things...