ImmInst Documentary Film Project
lightowl 27 May 2004
just need a few more bruce clones to clean it up into a nice report
Heh... Bruce, have you read The Collapsium by Wil McCarthy. They are really taking advantage of their "fax" machines on that point
Bruce Klein 30 May 2004
We have a green light for Transvision 2004 if we wish:
George,
ImmInst is looking to create a film around the book and perhaps
interview a few TV 04 Toronto attendees:
http://www.imminst.org/film.php
(quiet for now)
Would you think it ok for two people (Michael Anissimov and Natty
Coleman) to have a camera at TV 04?
Hi BJ -- that should be no problem. All I ask is that
1) you don't indiscrminately film people
2) you have release forms ready for int'vws and other shooting
situations
Best,
George
spifflink 30 May 2004
does this sound good? it is a chance for this project to do some major good for the world.
bacopa 31 May 2004
Bruce Klein 02 Jun 2004
Mike West http://imminst.org/f...&f=13&t=2014&s=
a leading proponent and researcher into stem cells is a contributer to the ImmInst book. He may make a good first interview.
Looking to geography, it may be feasible to get one or maybe two interviews per day. Perhaps something like:
Sat July 31 & Sun Aug 1
Mike West - Worcester, MA
Marvin Minsky - Cambridge, MA
Ray Kurzweil - Wellesley Hills, MA
Sat Aug 7 and Sun Aug 8
Transvision Toronto - a number of interviewees in one place
Nick Bostom
Jose Cordeiro
James Hughes
Mike Treder
Natasha Vita-More
Aubrey de Grey
Peter Passaro
Sat Aug 14 - Sun Aug 15
James Halperin - Dallas, TX
Rob Freitas - Richardson, TX
Max More - Houston TX
----
Natty, in light of your wish to focus on stem cell and more biology, with a target audience in mind of politicians, it may be better to tone down the physical immortality focus in favor of a more humanitarian aim.. such as you suggest with Christopher Reeve. But there still may be room to include the overarching goal of physical immortality by such interviewees as James Halperin and Marvin Minsky.
Can you give us another feel for how you envision the final product considering what we know so far? For instance, will we just let the interviewees talk or should we consider a faceless narrator as well?
bacopa 02 Jun 2004
This is an excellent idea, we should definitely focus on targeting people in the governement who could positively effect the out come of these burgeoning fields. Focusing on people who have the chance to make a difference in problems that need addressing ASAP is a very pro-active and practical way of going about this documentary, the physical immortality stuff as BJ said, can always be put in at the end of the documentary as a 'things to come' kind of deal. So we focus on practical 'things that are happening now' followed by more future shock type levels of technology even if immortality shouldn't be that 'shocking.' We could also interview authors of this book and find out their particular take on the poltiics of stem cell research, cloning, and ageing in general. I think a great person to interview would be Aubrey de Grey as he is one of the foremost experts in bio-gerentology and someone who has a plan to implement radical life extension, this is the kind of non nonsense 'truth' that I think this documentary could sell to the public. Show them that radical life extension is no longer a pipe dream.i want to send a press package to every freaking legislator in the US, telling them what is up and what they have the chance to do. telling them that if the laws change there is potential for a medical revolution that will end the suffering of many and eventually lead to the cure of aging.
bacopa 02 Jun 2004
randolfe 03 Jun 2004
The suggested list of interviewees is the same small coterie of advocates that have dominated this field. We need to add more "new faces" like BJK.
Working with a camera can be very daunting. You better have someone who knows that they have to have all bases covered. If you shoot in a large newspaper store, you need the storeowner's or manager's permission as well as the person you are filming.
Editing is going to be necessary and NO ONE is going to be happy with his or her treatment. What film editors think is important and what subjects of documentaries think is important are quite different.
If you want massive coverage, I'd suggest trying to get distributed via Satellite TV. Film festivals and standard commercial channels will not reach nearly as far since you really want "to reach the world".
The emotional aspect is vital. Has anyone seen the footage of Jennifer Estes (sp?) whose sister's started a foundation to found research into ALS. We need a mass of suffering desperate people who tug at your heart strings.
Ideas of reaching politicians are naive. You have to go the route of the stem cell advocates. The politicians started seeing the light on this issue after all those kids with Juvenile Onset Diabetes (and their parents) descended on their offices demanding research be allowed to go forward.
I have been meaning to advocate a "social sciences" section to this site. It's absence is glaring--the psychological hurdles, the sociological hurdles, even the political science obstacles to advancing our cause are at the heart of our progress.
Before you present "uploading yourself" here and then "downloading yourself" there (or later), you better figure out how to make that idea comfortable and appealing to those who are not so well informed. That is a job for the social sciences. Yes, we must master being propagandists for the things we believe in.
spifflink 07 Jun 2004
spifflink 07 Jun 2004
bacopa 07 Jun 2004
great points Randolphe and Spifflink also strong points regarding celebritydom certainly appealing to famous names will make the masses start paying better attention.If you want massive coverage, I'd suggest trying to get distributed via Satellite TV. Film festivals and standard commercial channels will not reach nearly as far since you really want "to reach the world".
The emotional aspect is vital. Has anyone seen the footage of Jennifer Estes (sp?) whose sister's started a foundation to found research into ALS. We need a mass of suffering desperate people who tug at your heart strings.
Spifflink, what sort of debates? on stem cell research via email format? That sounds like another good idea maybe I should be doing that get these people to realize the importance of these beneficial therapies.I am in active debates with about 5 or 6 senators and representatives in CA and UT, and I maintain active correspondence with them. It is a matter of getting them to pay attention.
yes we must push as hard as we possibly can getting our hands dirty if need be.The war of ideals is on, and the scale is tipping in our direction, and it is up to us to push it all the way
I have been meaning to advocate a "social sciences" section to this site. It's absence is glaring--the psychological hurdles, the sociological hurdles, even the political science obstacles to advancing our cause are at the heart of our progress.
Before you present "uploading yourself" here and then "downloading yourself" there (or later), you better figure out how to make that idea comfortable and appealing to those who are not so well informed. That is a job for the social sciences. Yes, we must master being propagandists for the things we believe in.
great points and duly noted, be must EDUCATE the, pardon the expression, the VASTLY ignorant masses on the harsh harsh realities of death and why something like uploading is actually more rational and ultimately beneficial than not.
Bruce Klein 09 Jun 2004
Bruce,
I am happy to help you any way I can. Whatever you need me to do just let me know.
- Mike
Also, thus far, Jim Halperin, Max More, Natasha Vita-More, Mike West and James Hughes have given indications of wishing to help with the film.
bacopa 09 Jun 2004
Bruce Klein 09 Jun 2004
bacopa 09 Jun 2004
Mind 23 Jun 2004
Randolph: The suggested list of interviewees is the same small coterie of advocates that have dominated this field. We need to add more "new faces" like BJK.
Good point Randolph. I concur.
Bruce Klein 02 Jul 2004
brokenportal 06 Jul 2004
My brother is getting into college for film and I have always encouraged him in that direction for this very reason. So far him and I have begun dabbling with flash animator, which isnt a bad idea. A bunch of cartoon clips would be much better than nothing. After all, teenagers are less likely to have their ways set to much in stone yet.
Is there a good place in Imminst to post short commercial clip and or cartoon types of ideas?
Mind 06 Jul 2004
lightowl 08 Jul 2004
Edited by lightowl, 08 July 2004 - 04:50 PM.
Bruce Klein 19 Aug 2004
Here is an Aug 18 - 2004, Film Project Update:
I will now take on the role as Film Director and Producer for the ImmInst Film Project. As Natty and Michael were unable to travel to Toronto, there are extra funds to purchase film equipment. I've recently purchased a Panasonic AG-DVX100A:
for 1,748.99 and accessories for 773.38. I will now trade in my SUV for a compact better gas millage car in order to travel more economically over the next few months while filming.
I'm now practicing with Adobe Premiere 1.5 Film Studio software and expect the Film Equipment to arrive by mail soon.
If any ImmInst members wish to be included in the film and/or has floor space for me to sleep in route, I'd be grateful. More about travel plans found at the film site: http://www.imminst.org/film
Thanks,
Bruce
cryofan 27 Aug 2004
When this happens, the internet will become the newly dominant multimedia entertainment distribution system. See for example this quote from Steven Spielberg when interviewing with reporter Katie Couric:
>>>>
Steven Spielberg has forecast that the Internet will eventually become the primary source for entertainment. Appearing on NBC's Today show on Thursday, Spielberg told cohost Katie Couric: "I think that the Internet is going to effect the most profound change on the entertainment industries combined. And we're all gonna be tuning into the most popular Internet show in the world, which will be coming from some place in Des Moines." When Couric remarked, "Great, I'm gonna lose my job," Spielberg interjected, "We're all gonna lose our jobs. We're all gonna be on the Internet trying to find an audience."
>>>>>>>>
So, when this happens, and people getting their tv and movies over the Net, the distribution system for audiovisual entertainment becomes low-barrier-to-entry for the first time ever. That will be very disruptive, especially when you throw peer to peer networks into the mix. I also can see 5 years into the future and see a much more accessible and egalitarian distribution network.
Five years from now, if you want to make your own movie, documentary, etc, just trot down to the store, or ebay, and buy yourself a digital camera ($300--$3000 depending on quality, and the prices just keep going down), and get yourself some $500 video editing software/effects software (or get it free from GNU, or from the p2p networks), and buy some lights, and write a script and make your self a movie/documentary.
When you are done, throw it on the p2p networks, and if it is any good, in a few years, thousands or even millions will have seen it. And the neat thing is that it never dies. Any quality video entertainment can be immortal on the p2p networks.
And what a powerful tool to propagate memes! Imagine a great script incorporating cryonics/immortalism, produced and created by dedicated cryonicists all over the world, collaborating over the internet. We could work on it for years, and then when the wireless broadband revolution is ripe, we upload it on the p2p network. It would live forever there, spreading immortlist ideas likes a virus....traveling from computer to computer....
Edited by cryofan, 27 August 2004 - 04:13 PM.
cryofan 27 Aug 2004
I took the footage using a cheapo digital camera (it takes stills and video).
Looks pretty bad, but it good practice.
Bruce Klein 27 Aug 2004
And what a powerful tool to propagate memes! Imagine a great script incorporating cryonics/immortalism, produced and created by dedicated cryonicists all over the world, collaborating over the internet. We could work on it for years, and then when the wireless broadband revolution is ripe, we upload it on the p2p network. It would live forever there, spreading immortlist ideas likes a virus....traveling from computer to computer....
Yes, this is the goal. I'm learning Adobe Premier also.
cryofan 27 Aug 2004
For example, the script might use some sort of commonly used science fiction device, such as time travel, window/portal to the future, where conflicts involving the protagonists might allow expository characters/scenes which contrast "rational" attitudes toward death, versus irrational, "deathist" attitudes. For example, our protagonist might be chased into the future by some antagonist, where expository characters might explain that humans in the year 2004 irrationally viewed death as natural, and found radical life extension techniques such as cryonics, cloning, stem cell research, body transplants, etc, "yucky", etc. The contrast could be made between an immortalist future where people think and reason as we cryonicists do right now, and the deathist society of today.
In the movie, exposition might be implemented using "archival material from the distant past," such as interviews of cryonicists from the year 2004.
Of course, this approach would have to be leavened with typical dramatic conflicts, character development, plot, etc. Otherwise it could be a bit heavyhanded.
As for Mr Ettinger's suggestion regarding what is of the most import, I have to respectfully disagree in part. Of couse, it should be of paramount importance that each of us make cryonics arrangments. I agree; that is paramount. I have made my own cryonics arrangements, and in five years, the accumulated equity will make the payments on my policy.
But I want more. And talking to acquaintances is not nearly as effective as a movie might be, if the movie is halfway decent. Now, I think it may be pretty hard to make a movie good enough to make it into the distribution system we have right now. But as I pointed out in another post (at the end of this thread, I believe), many informed people think that wireless broadband will precipitate a much more egalitarian video entertainment distribution system.
But as far as watching free video entertainment goes, people watch old black-n-white movies with crappy rabbit-ears reception all the time. If the movie is decent, and nothing else is on....
As I said, in a couple of years, enough of an audience will exist on broadband for our proposed movie to be worthwhile. We could distribute such a movie virtually free on p2p networks. And human culture is based on ideas passed through many avenues--including movies, teevee sitcoms, etc. Like force vectors, these ideas slowly move society in one direction or another. We need to add our force vector to the pile.
How many people can we reach by talking to our family and acquaintances collectively? A few thousand? Once most Americans and Europeans have new computers and are on broadband, decent movies uploaded to the p2p networks can live forever, passing immortalist ideas from computer to computer, year after year.
Better to reach hundreds of thousands or even millions via a movie. And what a superb mechanism for propagating memes! Once you suspend disbelief and enter the ingratiating world of a movie, the viewer is far more susceptible and receptive
to the ideas of the filmmaker.
cryofan 27 Aug 2004
Here is the imdb link:
http://imdb.com/titl...096256/combined
Check the link for user comments....
They Live was a science fiction movie from about 20 years ago that used an aliens-disguised-as-humans to carry a leftist-political anti-capitalist meme. It starred Rowdy Roddy Piper. John Carpenter, director, scriptwriter is/was one of Hollywood's leading directors, albeit one who concentrated on horror and SF movies.
It appears on the surface to be a low budget scifi flick, but I am sure it did its part to undermine supply-side neoliberalism/Reaganism.
It may be the most subversive mainstream Hollywood movie ever.
An immortalist movie could be made along similar lines, with similar goals.
A more recent example of such a "message movie" will be coming out in about one month--John Sayles' _Silver_City_. It is a movie about a "fictional" politician and political campaign, "coincidentally" bearing a great deal of resemblance to George Bush and his 2000 campaign.
Bruce Klein 27 Aug 2004
lightowl 27 Aug 2004
Anyway, my point is. I think the best way to distribute on the web is by linking to a download host from websites that have audience that might have an interest or just generally curious audiences. To find a file on p2p you have to actively search for it, so people has to know what it is named and that it actually exists in the first place. Also, I think the p2p availability will come eventually if the film is popular, since the people who download from the site(s) are free to distribute. ( It may be a good idea to make a free for distribution announcement in the film for clarity of copy rights )
SO, when the film is being distributed and watched, would it not be fun to have an idea of how many people have seen it. Just an idea. In the end of the film, a text could state that "We would like to know what you thought of this film. If you would like to participate, please visit www.blablabla.xx. If you don't have an opinion just let us know that you have seen the film". If some good logging is made of such a "poll" it could be used to identify which distribution channels are the most effective. On that same page could be an explanation on how to distribute and a link to a direct download.
Example of poll.
0. Did you se it ?
a. Yes.
b. What the **** are you talking about.
1. Where did you get the film ?
a. Downloaded from website (FTP)
b. Got it from a friend.
c. Found it on P2P
d. Watched it on a TV-Channel.
e... etc
2. What did you think of it ?
a. Fantastic.
b. Great.
c. Interesting.
d. Boring.
e. Stupid.
f. Amusing.
g... etc
3. Do you want to see more ?
a. Yes please.
b. No, not really.
c. If I have to.
d... etc
4. Did you / or do you plan on distributing it ?
a. Did distribute.
b. Plan on distributing.
c. Distribute ?
d. Dont want to.
e. Dont know how.
f... etc
Heh, I think you got the general idea by now.