Piracetam from SmartPowders

Started by kassem23 , Dec 09 2009 03:04 PM

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#31 kassem23

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 09:20 AM

Kassem23,

Do you take your 5-6 grams three to four times a day Piracetam with choline? Have you ever taken it with choline? If yes, what type of choline?

Thanks

Hi.. I take no choline supplement, but I ate a couple of egg yolks the first day, and then I eat meat, liver and milk every day, so I get the natural amount necessary I suppose.

#32 acantelopepope

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 05:46 PM

I'm interested in finding any factors that people who are currently* responding well to piracetam share. kassem, would you give us the most complete (non-personal) medical information you can share? Everyone is welcome to respond.

#Current positive response?

#Any medications, lab tests, sleeping habits, psychiatric illnesses, food aversions, diseases, family illnesses...

#What country/county do you live in?

#How much exercise do you get? What activities do you participate in?

#What other supplements do you take?

#What's your piracetam source? (I know you got smartpowders, but just in case other people answer here as well)

#How long have you been taking it?

#How much do you take? How do you measure it?

#How often do you take it (frequency/day)

#When do you take it?

#What do you take it with? (by it self, with juice, with food, etc.)

#Any other possible information

I'm going to compile a complete questionnaire sometime soon and start another thread... but maybe we can work out the kinks here.

*I still believe that many who are getting a positive response from piracetam now will, in a matter of months (like myself and the many others in the non-responders thread) begin to experience a negative response over time

#33 Guest_Isochroma_*

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 07:49 PM

I have an idea. A gutty idea, a total hunch. It has to do with three things, but first I've got to talk a bit about the fabulous cholesterol story.

From: "STEROLS 1. CHOLESTEROL AND CHOLESTEROL ESTERS":

"It may surprise some to learn that the brain contains more cholesterol than any other organ, and here it comprises roughly a quarter of the total free cholesterol in the human body."

The strange coincidence of cholesterol and choline in natural foods was the first thought. The second was that I never consumed a choline supplement (there is 210mg choline bitartrate in my daily supplement, but that is a tiny amount). I did eat eggs to get rid of the initial mild headache, but then I quit them due to gas and eat meat every other day.

From: "Cholesterol-reducing drugs may lessen brain function":

"If you try to lower the cholesterol by taking medicine that is attacking the machinery of cholesterol synthesis in the liver, that medicine goes to the brain too. And then it reduces the synthesis of cholesterol which is necessary in the brain," said Shin.

In his experiments, Shin tested the activity of the neurotransmitter-release machinery from brain cells without cholesterol present and measured how well the machinery functioned. He then included cholesterol in the system and again measured the protein function. Cholesterol increased protein function by five times.

"Our study shows there is a direct link between cholesterol and the neurotransmitter release," said Shin. "And we know exactly the molecular mechanics of what happens in the cells. Cholesterol changes the shape of the protein to stimulate thinking and memory.""

After reading plenty of reports on various forums about choline, and especially its more potent forms - causing various head troubles like sleepiness, tiredness and even brain fog - I got to thinking.

Then another connection appeared. Years ago I was visiting my doctor and he told me about the case of a recently approved anti-cholesterol drug. The drug was so efficient that it gave a significant fraction of its users hemorragic strokes. Too bad they weren't informed that Vitamin C deficiency was the root cause of those improperly-patched small blood vessels in their brains.

That's a side point though. The main dish was another thing he mentioned about those poor souls: they had suffered some terrible mental dysfunctions too.

So I read up on it, and found that the evil brain fog, tiredness and lack of memory had hit these people hard. Hard enough that even the big media picked up on it:

From Lipitor® Cognitive Side Effect Concerns ( Atorvastatin Calcium ):

"True to my personal expectation other reports of statin associated TGA soon began to occur. We now have received many hundreds of reports of strange and horrifying experiences with transient global amnesia while taking a statin drug.

"All statins in use today can be associated with cognitive side effects such as amnesia, forgetfulness, confusion and disorientation. The mechanism of action seems to be excessive reduction in the bio-availability of cholesterol for proper brain function."

A Google search on "lipitor brain" reveals the blatant horror of this disgusting situation. The victims report their sad tales by the truckload, like this one:

"I asked my physician why I seem to always have brain fog and did not get a satisfactory answer from him. Could the Lipitor I am taking be responsible for that. I have been taking it for about 4 years and have felt that way all this time"

It occurred to me that the cholesterol was a most key component of brain function. Those cholesterol molecules, besides being the root of all sex hormones, are also intimately involved in cell membranes and makes up a large fraction of the brain's dry weight.

It has already been established that health problems are caused by choline deficiency, and worse problems when excess cholesterol combined with choline deficiency is present:

"Men and women fed intravenously (IV) with solutions that contained adequate methionine and folate but lacked choline have developed a condition called "fatty liver" and signs of liver damage that resolved when choline was provided (3)."

Nobody's asked the opposite question though. All gung-ho in the war against cholesterol, they missed a key point - a vital one too. In animal foods - which are the closest representation to our own tissues - cholesterol and choline occur in a 1:1 ratio and together. Foods like liver and egg yolks that are rich in cholesterol are also by far the richest source of choline. The coincidence is so striking that I thought there must be something quite important about the two.

A large egg has 215mg of choline, and it also has 213mg of cholesterol. Damn! 1:1 ratio. Choline supplements and isolated lecithin provide no cholesterol at all. Plants don't need or use cholesterol - they have phytosterols. Animals need cholesterol, and under normal circumstances can synthesize enough in their liver. Piracetam supplementation isn't a 'normal' circumstance though - especially combined with isolated choline supplementation. Interesting, isn't it?

Knowing that gross cholesterol deficiency is responsible for a mental symptom-cluster remarkably similar to the brain-fogs, sleepiness and even forgetfulness which appears in some people when taking piracetam. Though these folks are still a minority, the trouble they have has been an itch in the back of my mind.

So I'm going to take a stab at the beastie and make a radical hypothesis. Really go out on a limb.

Cats are good at going out on limbs. But I'm interested in one cat in particular, and his name is LCAT: Lecithin-cholesterol acyltransferase.

Posted Image

From: "STEROLS 1. CHOLESTEROL AND CHOLESTEROL ESTERS":

"As cholesterol esters accumulate in the lipoprotein core, cholesterol is removed from its surface thus promoting the flow of cholesterol from cell membranes into HDL. This in turn leads to morphological changes in HDL, which grow and become spherical. Subsequently, cholesterol esters are transferred to the other lipoprotein fractions LDL and VLDL, a reaction catalysed by cholesteryl ester transfer protein. LCAT is of great importance for cholesterol homeostasis and it is a suggested target for therapeutic intervention against atherosclerosis."

At the tipping point between the two vitals cholesterol and choline is the LCAT, balancing them by enzymatic interconversion. It illustrates nicely how vital is the ratio between the two, and the importance of interspecies homeostatis.

Now that the puzzle-pieces are presented, what's the big picture? And what was the answer to the question of too much choline and not enough cholesterol? Why do they occur in a 1:1 ratio in animal foods rich in both? And what's with these Lipitor victims full of brain fog and deficient in cholesterol - thanks to the miracle of an anti-cholesterol drug that works too well?

Certainly the balance between the two is crucial, and the LCAT is busy doing his work to keep them even. But feeding of large doses of choline not only prevents fatty liver accumulations. In large doses and without sufficient cholesterol, choline is not so nice. Excess choline without sufficient cholesterol has the effect of binding cholesterol up, producing a functional membrane deficiency similar to that seen in Lipitor victims. Depending on the individual's genetics, and especially the production and homeostasis mediated by LCAT, they could become victim to the dreaded fog.

Piracetam, by altering the delicate cholinergic balance, pushes the equation even further toward frank cholesterol deficiency. Most individuals' LCATs or other normalizing mechanisms can compensate, but taking a choline supplement can push the entire equation beyond its homeostatic control points - depending on individual genetics and dietary cholesterol:choline ratio.

One final point. The adrenals are well-known to be important to piracetam efficacy, and are also known to be crucial to proper brain function. Backing up to LCAT,

From High HDL Cholesterol (Hyperalphalipoproteinemia):

"Cholesterol undergoes esterification by lecithin-cholesterol acyltransferase (LCAT) to produce cholesteryl ester, which results in the production of the mature spherical HDL"

From Adrenal cholesterol uptake from plasma lipoproteins: regulation by corticotropin:

"The transfer of lipoprotein-bound cholesterol into adrenal cells was examined. Adrenal glands from unstimulated or corticotropin stimulated hypophysectomized rats were incubated with high density lipoprotein (HDL) or low density lipoprotein LDL containing radiolabeled cholesterol. The rate of transfer of labeled cholesterol from HDL into the glands was two to three times greater than from LDL."

The adrenals have a high uptake of HDL, produced from cholesterol and choline by LCAT. Interesting, isn't it? The adrenals make crucial hormones from the HDL substrate:

From SR-BI-mediated HDL cholesteryl ester delivery in the adrenal gland:

"In adrenocortical cells, scavenger receptor class B, type I (SR-BI) is localized in specialized plasma membrane compartments, called microvillar channels, that retain high density lipoprotein particles (HDL) and are sites for the selective uptake of cholesteryl esters (CE). Formation of microvillar channels is regulated by adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH) and requires SR-BI expression. Subsequent to SR-BI-mediated delivery to the plasma membrane, HDL-CE is metabolized to free cholesterol by hormone sensitive lipase and transported to the mitochondria for steroid synthesis via START domain proteins."

Edited by Isochroma, 15 December 2009 - 08:49 PM.

#34 Guest_Isochroma_*

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 09:05 PM

The story goes far beyond this, but I haven't even eaten breakfast yet today. I'll be looking into the puzzle for the next few days as the weather is too evil for bicycle travel.

Further on the subject, the liver's cholesterol circulates throughout the body, except for the brain. The blood-brain barrier is impermeable to cholesterol.

So important is cholesterol to brain function that the brain keeps itself isolated, with its own entirely separate pool of cholesterol and its own synthesis and homeostatic regulatory machinery. Lipitor turned those peoples' lives into hell because it crosses the blood-brain barrier and wrecks the brain's internal cholesterol production-control machinery.

Edited by Isochroma, 15 December 2009 - 09:14 PM.

#35 Invariant

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 09:41 PM

Interesting hypothesis Isochroma, keep at it. What would the implications for responders and non-responders be?

Edit, found this. Since corticosteroids are synthesised from cholesterol, this might be of interest:

Psychopharmacology (Berl). 1992;108(1-2):11-5.

Elevated corticosteroid levels block the memory-improving effects of nootropics and cholinomimetics.
Mondadori C, Ducret T, Häusler A.Ciba-Geigy Ltd., Pharmaceutical Research Department, Basle, Switzerland.
Oral pretreatment of mice with aldosterone or corticosterone blocked the memory-enhancing effects of piracetam, pramiracetam, aniracetam and oxiracetam in a dose-related manner, without, however, impairing the animals' learning performance. The improvement of memory induced by physostigmine, arecoline, and tacrine (THA) was similarly inhibited. The fact that elevated steroid levels suppress the memory-enhancing effects of entirely different substances could indicate that these substances have a common site of action. In the light of new observations showing increased cortisol concentrations in Alzheimer patients, this steroid dependency of the effects of memory enhancers might explain why only a limited number of these patients respond to therapy with nootropics or cholinomimetics.

PMID: 1410129

I've got the full text if anyone is interested.

Edited by Novotropic, 15 December 2009 - 10:27 PM.

#36 acantelopepope

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 10:43 PM

The story goes far beyond this, but I haven't even eaten breakfast yet today. I'll be looking into the puzzle for the next few days as the weather is too evil for bicycle travel.

Further on the subject, the liver's cholesterol circulates throughout the body, except for the brain. The blood-brain barrier is impermeable to cholesterol.

So important is cholesterol to brain function that the brain keeps itself isolated, with its own entirely separate pool of cholesterol and its own synthesis and homeostatic regulatory machinery. Lipitor turned those peoples' lives into hell because it crosses the blood-brain barrier and wrecks the brain's internal cholesterol production-control machinery.

I like what you've found. It's one of the only other theories I've seen that has some deep thought behind it besides the aldosterone/corticosterone theory. And cholesterol/hormones are hardly unrelated, cholesterol being the precursor to steroids... "Cholesterol is an important precursor molecule for the synthesis of Vitamin D and the steroid hormones, including the adrenal gland hormones cortisol and aldosterone as well as the sex hormones progesterone, estrogens, and testosterone, and their derivatives." (Wikipedia).

And, not to jump the gun here or anything, but here are some of the results from bloodwork I had done in July:

Cholesterol, Total: 104 (reference range 100-169)
Triglycerides: 32 (reference range 0-149)
HDL Cholesterol: 58 (reference >39)
VLDL Cholesterol Cal: 6 (reference 5-40)
LDL Cholesterol Calc: 40 (reference 0-99)

As you can see, most doctors would say that I have "excellent cholesterol levels" because they are so low, and my HDL is so high ("According to ATP-III Guidelines, HDL-C >59 mg/dL is onsidered a negative risk factor for CHD.")

I'll definitely be looking into this. Thanks Isochroma.

#37 kassem23

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 12:01 AM

I'm interested in finding any factors that people who are currently* responding well to piracetam share. kassem, would you give us the most complete (non-personal) medical information you can share? Everyone is welcome to respond.

#Current positive response?

#Any medications, lab tests, sleeping habits, psychiatric illnesses, food aversions, diseases, family illnesses...

#What country/county do you live in?

#How much exercise do you get? What activities do you participate in?

#What other supplements do you take?

#What's your piracetam source? (I know you got smartpowders, but just in case other people answer here as well)

#How long have you been taking it?

#How much do you take? How do you measure it?

#How often do you take it (frequency/day)

#When do you take it?

#What do you take it with? (by it self, with juice, with food, etc.)

#Any other possible information

I'm going to compile a complete questionnaire sometime soon and start another thread... but maybe we can work out the kinks here.

*I still believe that many who are getting a positive response from piracetam now will, in a matter of months (like myself and the many others in the non-responders thread) begin to experience a negative response over time

#Current positive response?
I've already described this extensively. Everything is more lucid and more 'fresh'. My thoughts and feelings are easier to express, and my speech fluidity is also improving - daily. It should be noted now, that I continue to take 3 - 4 doses á 3-5 grams every day and I just caught the common cold - a lot of people from class are also ill. I might think that the fact that I'm not sleeping enough is also a contributing factor on my catch of the common cold.

#Any medications, lab tests, sleeping habits, psychiatric illnesses, food aversions, diseases, family illnesses...
I don't take any medications daily, except for today I took a paracetamol because of the slight fever and discomfort I was having in my throat. I've gotten lab tests, but can't remember the results, except the fact that my triglycerides and LDL + HDL had improved since last time, due to the excessive amount of full-creamy milk I was drinking at that time (I was trying to gain weight to build muscle. Have always been an ectomorph - skinny type, hard gainer).. I have very, very bad sleeping habits and I don't get enough sun during the day because I live in Denmark (the weather sucks here) so I take a D-vitamin supplement every other day. I initially thought that I had DSPS (Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome/Disorder) because I tend to be very tired in the mornings, and like staying up at night, but now I just think it's just as much a bad habit as a disorder. I've just ordered the WakeMate to improve my sleeping rhythm and find the optimal sleep cycle for me. You can read more about it on their official homepage, it's recently developed.

#What country/county do you live in?
Denmark.

#How much exercise do you get? What activities do you participate in?
I actually don't get much exercise right now, due to the fact that I'm extremely busy with school work.. I have to prepare for exams and there are a lot of reports, assignments, papers etc. But when I do exercise I take push ups, chin ups and pull ups, which are really physically exhausting, but keeps me fit. I also do dips once in a while. I really want to start running, but recently got shin-splints + twisted my ankle, so sooner or later I will begin running to improve cardiovascular fitness.

#What other supplements do you take?
Look in previous posts.

#How long have you been taking it?
Since the 9th of december, which means for seven days, so I'm still in the beginning phase

#How much do you take? How do you measure it?
I have a scoop from my protein powder that shows 10 grams, then I take half of the 10 grams or use the small scoop that followed with smartpowders, which I believe to be 1 gram. Then I take 4-5 grams pr. serving.

#How often do you take it (frequency/day)
3-4 times a day, depends on how much time I've got. On school days, like these, I take only 3 times a day.

#When do you take it?
Once in the morning when I wake up, once when I get home from school, and one before sleep. Sometimes one extra in the evening.

#What do you take it with? (by it self, with juice, with food, etc.)
I've actually become quite fond of the taste of Piracetam. In the beginning it was like: God this taste like shit, I won't be able to eat this every day. Now it's like I actually crave it once in a while..When I taste the drug now it's like a kind of: This wakes me up, does me good and feels good feeling. Very hard to describe. I usually take water afterwards, sometimes juice.. Depends on what I like.

#Any other possible information
Piracetam is great right now, even though I have the cold. Hope it will help me recuperate!

#38 Guest_Isochroma_*

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 02:45 AM

It will help you to recuperate

From: "The prophylactic and therapeutic use of piracetam in reproduced myocardial infarct"

"The antiarrhythmic, antihypoxic, antioxidant effects of the drug, its positive influence on the parameters of humoral and cellular immunity were revealed."

From: "Effect of litonit and piracetam on the course of experimental..."

"Litonit and piracetam were found to have a favorable action on humoral immunity"

Second is paywalled. Paywalls suck.

Edited by Isochroma, 16 December 2009 - 02:45 AM.

#39 acantelopepope

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 03:21 AM

It will help you to recuperate

From: "The prophylactic and therapeutic use of piracetam in reproduced myocardial infarct"
"The antiarrhythmic, antihypoxic, antioxidant effects of the drug, its positive influence on the parameters of humoral and cellular immunity were revealed."
From: "Effect of litonit and piracetam on the course of experimental..."
"Litonit and piracetam were found to have a favorable action on humoral immunity"
Second is paywalled. Paywalls suck.

Who are you referring to here? Who will be helped to 'recuperate' by piracetam? The only thing I saw in those studies was correction of arythmic heart rate/myocardial infarction in dogs.

Just to be clear: do you still believe taking more piracetam is going to help people who aren't responding to it or are responding negatively?

Here's the PDF you wanted:

isochromadogheartPDF.pdf 313.04KB 11 downloads... nothing special pertaining to this discussion as far as I can tell.

#40 Guest_Isochroma_*

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 03:45 AM

Just a bit of faith healing for the guy. I could dig further, and do have one other study in my elephantine memory: it mentions the better membrane fluidity helping WBCs, just like it helps RBCs and in some ways hinders platelets when they get aggregatious

Piracetam seems to have enhanced my vocab into the make-believe zone, where entirely new words and strange phrases begin appearing...

So you have a subscription, eh? I hit that paywall about 3-4 times a day trying to get studies. Can I send you the URLs? There's tons of papers I'd like to read - but being poor I'm too cheap to pay the evil SpringerStink. It's terrible trying to draw conclusions from the Google one-liners SS provides - and as you pointed out the actual papers are often unrelated.

Edited by Isochroma, 16 December 2009 - 03:55 AM.

#41 acantelopepope

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 05:30 AM

Just a bit of faith healing for the guy. I could dig further, and do have one other study in my elephantine memory: it mentions the better membrane fluidity helping WBCs, just like it helps RBCs and in some ways hinders platelets when they get aggregatious Piracetam seems to have enhanced my vocab into the make-believe zone, where entirely new words and strange phrases begin appearing...

So you have a subscription, eh? I hit that paywall about 3-4 times a day trying to get studies. Can I send you the URLs? There's tons of papers I'd like to read - but being poor I'm too cheap to pay the evil SpringerStink. It's terrible trying to draw conclusions from the Google one-liners SS provides - and as you pointed out the actual papers are often unrelated.

Faith healing? Faith in what? Piracetam?

Look, it's potentially an amazing drug. The only issue is that its effects are so wildly unpredictable, and in more cases than not, negative.

I liked what you were getting at originally with your cholesterol research... citing more arbitrary studies about myocardial infarctions in dogs does nothing.

If you want those studies, post links and I'll do my best to get them for you. My motive should be clear: piracetam works well for you. It doesn't for me. I want to know why. If you can aid me in that search, we can work as a team.

#42 Dumbel

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 07:40 AM

If i got it right some people respond very well to piracetam- even over a long time.

Others respond in the beginning but get negative effects after a given time.

And some people don`t respond to piracetam at all.

When you see at the group of non-responders:
Couldn`t it be the case that the non-responders will respond after a certain period of time, either positive or negative?

I think i`m a non responder and follow my theory. I`m taking 15-20g per day and will see what happens. I`m taking it more than a month now and i think it did something for me. I have the feeling that i don`t stumble over my words as much as before taking piracetam. But that`s somewhat vague to say at the moment.

#43 Invariant

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 09:30 AM

Just a bit of faith healing for the guy. I could dig further, and do have one other study in my elephantine memory: it mentions the better membrane fluidity helping WBCs, just like it helps RBCs and in some ways hinders platelets when they get aggregatious Piracetam seems to have enhanced my vocab into the make-believe zone, where entirely new words and strange phrases begin appearing...

So you have a subscription, eh? I hit that paywall about 3-4 times a day trying to get studies. Can I send you the URLs? There's tons of papers I'd like to read - but being poor I'm too cheap to pay the evil SpringerStink. It's terrible trying to draw conclusions from the Google one-liners SS provides - and as you pointed out the actual papers are often unrelated.

Being a university student I can access pretty much every paper published in a respected journal. I could start a new thread just for uploading piracetam studies so everyone can access them.

#44 Invariant

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 09:42 AM

Another bit about the piracetam-cholesterol connection.

http://www.imminst.o...showtopic=35695

had actually started to take niacin recently to help my cholesterol out. It wasn't bad-it was a little over 200 and my HDL/LDL ratio is good. I just like to have perfection.

I had no idea it would do this, but niacin boosted my mood, more than any other single pill or supplement has. I know it's not the placebo affect. I am a vitamin junkie and have tried everything in the past to boost my mood. Vitamins have prevented me from going as low as I used to go, but I still was down.

The niacin worked from day 1-been on it a little over a week. I am VERY focused and in a good mood. I had suffered from ADHD and inattention, not sure if it was because of depression or just because I get bored. I do have a high IQ-just very absentminded when it comes to things that don't interest me.

The other benefit Niacin has had is that it allows me to use Piracetam. I had tried it in the past, and I did notice a difference. However, I would suffer from the piracetam crash which prevented regular use. I would get down.
However, when using niacin, the piracetam does not have the negative effects that it has once had. I am not saying this will work for everyone. However ,it has worked for me. I am going to continue to use niacin.

Might be interesting for acantelopepope.

#45 kassem23

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 01:00 PM

Another bit about the piracetam-cholesterol connection.

http://www.imminst.o...showtopic=35695
had actually started to take niacin recently to help my cholesterol out. It wasn't bad-it was a little over 200 and my HDL/LDL ratio is good. I just like to have perfection.

I had no idea it would do this, but niacin boosted my mood, more than any other single pill or supplement has. I know it's not the placebo affect. I am a vitamin junkie and have tried everything in the past to boost my mood. Vitamins have prevented me from going as low as I used to go, but I still was down.

The niacin worked from day 1-been on it a little over a week. I am VERY focused and in a good mood. I had suffered from ADHD and inattention, not sure if it was because of depression or just because I get bored. I do have a high IQ-just very absentminded when it comes to things that don't interest me.

The other benefit Niacin has had is that it allows me to use Piracetam. I had tried it in the past, and I did notice a difference. However, I would suffer from the piracetam crash which prevented regular use. I would get down.
However, when using niacin, the piracetam does not have the negative effects that it has once had. I am not saying this will work for everyone. However ,it has worked for me. I am going to continue to use niacin.

Might be interesting for acantelopepope.

Hi Novotropic. That would be awesome if you could do that. I have a number of PubMed articles that I wish to read, but don't have access to:

Giurgea, C. & Salama, M. (1977) "Nootropic drugs" Prog Neuro-Psychopharmac 1, 235-47.
Grau, M. et al, (1987) "Effect of Piracetam on electrocorticogram and local cerebral glucose utilization in the rat" Gen Pharmac 18, 205-11.
Mondadori, C. et al (1986) "Effects of oxiracetam on learning and memory in animals: comparison with Piracetam" Clin Neuropharmacol, 9, suppi 3, S27-S38.
Pepeu, G. & Spignoli, G. (1989) "Nootropic drugs and brain cholinergic mechanisms" Prog Neuro-Psychopharmacol & Biol Psychiat 13, S77-S88.
Chouinard, G. et al (1983) "Piracetam in elderly psychiatric patients with mild diffuse cerebral impairment" Psychopharmacol 81, 100-06.
Tallal, P. et al (1986) "Evaluation of the efficacy of Piracetam in treating information processing, reading and writing disorders in dyslexic children" Int J Psychophysiol 4, 41-52.
Gouliaev, A. & Senning, A, (1994) "Piracetam and other structurally related nootropics" Brain Res Rev 19, 180-222.
Mindus, P. et al (1976) "Piracetam-induced improvement of mental performance" Acta Psychiat Scand 54, 150-60.
Gualtieri F, Manetti D, Romanelli MN, Ghelardini C. Design and study of piracetam-like nootropics, controversial members of the problematic class of cognition-enhancing drugs.

Thanks in advance. Still having runny nose and sore throat so I will have a lot of time on my hands to get some reading done :-D

#46 kassem23

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 11:21 PM

Update 12:13 AM

Just to the people, who might be interested in hearing my continuing experience with Piracetam. I'm almost completely healthy again, except a little bit of sore throat. The lucidity is becoming quite mind boggling for me. It's like being on psychedelics or something, everything movement is smooth, everything I look at have smooth edges, like a gaussian blur filter in photoshop. Really hard to explain - but it's just crisp and smooth and more saturated, all at once. (You ever looked at a none-glossy versus a glossy MacBook Pro monitor? Tredemendous changes in color saturation and clearness. I have the matte, non-glossy version, and it's actually like looking at a glossy now, and I've been wanting a glossy screen for a long time. I wonder how a glossy MacBook Pro might look like now? :-D

On a cognitive level, my written language, especially in danish has improved tremendously and my father asked me multiple times whether or not I wrote the essay and I told him that I did. But it's just interesting to see a nootropic having such a profound influence on a cognitive level. I never imagined for something like this.

Keep tuned.. Looking forward to see my experience with Piracetam in 2 weeks from now.

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 06:30 AM

The day before yesterday I ran out of piracetam - first time in about a year. So yesterday & all of today before 3:45p I got to understand the washout.

Yesterday without was fine, but less dreams at night. The night before last I slept about the same but didn't wake up so refreshed. Not groggy per se. but just slow-minded. It took me about 15% longer than usual to do the daily wakeup chores.

Last night I looked at the orange sodium streetlights. They're my gauge for saturation and luminance dynamic range at night. They were duller, less colourful. Their edges weren't razor sharp anymore - instead, a bit blurry. I had few significant thoughts, and went to bed. Sleep came quicker but without the splendid dreams.

Fish oil can't do much alone - even combined with the other boatload of supplements I take. Everything combined is only at most five percent of my brain function - the other 95% is piracetam.

Waking up this morning, brain was really slow. Totally unlike the last year. Took 60% longer to complete morning chores. Through the day, even though vision was still relatively sharp - I had the sense of forgetting something. The quick fear that comes, the scramble through stuff in my backpack, making sure that the critical item in question is still there. That I didn't forget it. Because I couldn't remember if I'd forgotten it or not.

That absolutely never happened in the last year. Even two days of washout and the old problems start coming back, like weeds cracking through old concrete. Today I noticed a tiredness and inability to fully concentrate, to be fully awake, a small sample of the terrible state I was in for many years prior to starting piracetam.

Lurking behind the splendid, shiny and bright surface is a weak substructure. With good propping and lubrication it can work like a dream machine. But without it quickly regresses into dilapidation. How is it possible to understand one state while living in another? State-dependent memory is a horror on both sides of its fence.

I understand these things in a technical sense, but the heart is another matter. To be dependent on this magic molecule to keep myself functional as a normal person would be - somewhat better - but without it, to retreat into darkness again. Because I can't make it, it must be imported.

The mail and shipping are an extended intravenous line, roughly speaking. The fear of losing myself due to loss of piracetam supply, is something I may never come to terms with psychologically. It is truly my hidden prosthetic. Just like a person with a lost limb who couldn't walk, but gets a new leg that's even better than a regular person's. But it needs constant maintenance. Without that it becomes a useless deadweight.

Thus, I am a drug addict. But far worse than the kind that gets a fix from heroin or cocaine. Those people can clean up and will get healthier. In my case, I will lose what function I've got without a constant supply. There is no cure, just perpetual mitigation.

I realized months ago... maybe even within days after first starting, or maybe during that two-week period last year when the supply ran out - that I would be taking this material until the day I die or the supply runs out.

When I think of the commitment that entails, like when I was in hospital last year and had to walk around with an IV pump stand. Being connected to something external to survive. Even more of a commitment than marriage, because those come and go.

To live a normal life makes me so very happy. To have found out how to do it myself was great too. But by doing so I cannot ever go back now. It was like walking through a one-way door. When I think of the future it's so scary because of not being able to guarantee a supply, yet it's also so wonderful because while I have access, I can be normal. It's easy to remember everything, there is no fog, I can think and even learn new things, which I had stopped being able to do before.

But all of those gains will evaporate like dew on a hot summer day if the supply stops. Last year's two-month interruption and the last two days reaffirmed that. So piracetam liberated me to live normally, but as part of the deal it trapped me too. When I think of it tears come to my eyes, yet are they tears of joy or tears of sadness, or both? They are both, because for me it is the freedom from a prison worse than death, yet it is a new prison that I will be confined in for life - one which I will pay for in money each month, and each three hours with that bitter taste. One or the other, but at least I can choose - for now.

It seems most people take it for the extra edge or enhancement. I get these things too, except that if I stop I return to a state that is far, far under what could be considered 'normal'. A normal person would fall back to the ground from that state, but for me there lies a chasm in wait. Inside that chasm I could never believe escape was possible, and today outside that chasm I can't believe that it exists because I can't remember it as a state, at least not clearly. It is an abstract concept in my mind, totally unlike the way I remember a smell, or a colour, or a taste, or the sound of a person's voice. It's exactly like a dream, especially one remembered weeks or months later. Details come but the real implications, the real feeling of the state, can't be recaptured except by reliving the state itself once again.

Yet if I stop taking piracetam, then like a shadowy mouth it slowly begins to swallow my life once again. The bitterness of piracetam is absolutely nothing, let me tell you, compared to the chasm. I would swallow a powder thousands of times worse-tasting to stay above that darkness. That place was a hell that was almost finished eating my life away, but I left it behind - temporarily. Piracetam's like an anti-gravity device. It doesn't provide thrust but it does provide static repulsion, keeping me hovering easily hundreds of feet above the chasm's gaping maw. It's so easy to feel superior - even elevated - in that state. But the supply disruptions taught me that such elevated thoughts are a fool's. I will be dependent on piracetam for the rest of my life - just like a diabetic needs his insulin. And just like a diabetic, as I get older the difference between piracetam and none will get wider - making the regularity of supply ever more crucial.

So that's about all I have to say for now. I do envy people who use it just for enhancement. They probably won't ever understand what it is to me, but I'm glad because that means they also won't have to ever suffer the badness of such a state.

In my head a perpetual clock ticks. It counts every group of three hours, and thanks to the piracetam itself I can remember with uncanny ability to take the next dose on time or very close to on time. Every three waking hours, forever. Just like prisoners count the bars on their cell, I count the hours between doses. It's a life sentence, with me as the judge, jury, warden and prisoner all wrapped into one.

I am proud that in the last month my brain has improved to a state that I can remember the exact minute of the hour that the previous dose was taken on. Yet it is sickening to think how nicely precise and quantized the process is. There is an ugly compulsiveness to that precise repetition. Far worse too than the cravings of a heroin addict, since the dosing is always inside the limits of saturation, thereby making dosing a totally voluntary affair within a fairly large time period.

Rather than being driven by craving like the street-drug addict, a person like me is driven by this totally voluntary process. It sounds nice that it's voluntary and without immediate withdrawal effects, but it is really far worse precisely because of those things. It's so very hard to explain, but by being totally voluntary and totally needed to live normally, it is made the most perfect horror of them all. Perhaps if it was the sweet oxiracetam, it wouldn't be such a problem. Or maybe that sweetness would turn sickening in time. Like killing a few trees to save a forest, the constant regular dosing, the careful counting of hours and minutes - maybe seconds soon, if things keep improving - is itself like some kind of rot inside my brain. A real Faustian bargain.

Diabetics must feel this way - except they have to use needles. I hate needles, but if I had to... if piracetam wouldn't absorb otherwise... I would. Needles - like the often illegal drugs they serve to inject - are the same kind of love-hate relation, except one that is visually obvious to others and the Self. In contrast, taking a powder by mouth leaves no trace except for the transient bitterness.

It is silent absolution - silent love, and also the most perfect razor which leaves neither scar nor bloodstain upon the wrist of its user. That is its horror.

It is beautiful and I love it almost more than life itself. It is awful, and I hate it almost more than death itself.

Edited by Isochroma, 22 December 2009 - 07:12 AM.

#48 acantelopepope

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221 posts
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Location:Thailand

Posted 23 December 2009 - 06:46 PM

Hey Isochroma,

Your writing radiates with poignancy. You have a really great writer's ear, did you know that? You can make something out of that--it's much more rare than you would think, knowing how to express something clearly in writing, articulately even. I, too, have felt the way you feel. I've done it three times, none with any "street" drugs, but instead with much more subtle devils. I began taking pill "X" when I was 15 years old because my snotty physics teacher made me think I was stupid when I couldn't do what some of the other kids could do--kids I later realized had been given the advantage from the day their parents left MIT or Carnegie Mellon or UCLA or even any of the state schools in the US and started working on aeronautics at Boeing. I thought I wasn't funny enough or good looking enough to roll with the cool kids, I thought I wasn't quick enough to make varsity football, I thought I was bound to fail because my mom was an unemployed nurse and my estranged father was a yardworker, I thought I was a less valuable, less fortunate human being because I didn't have a cell phone, an iPod, or a big house in the hills where my privileged class-mates lived. I was wrong. I was completely wrong, but the Ego resists downsizing with all its ability, when really the Ego itself is what keeps us from realizing how perfect we are.

So I took pill X. I took it with religiousness. Before I even got out of bed, I reached over and popped one every morning. At first it was great, like these things always are. Then I began throwing up in the morning, and expecting it, because I didn't believe in the person I was without my drug. I was promoted to supervise 17 people and took five college courses when I was 17, got a girlfriend, and was accepted into a bastion of privilege in the college of my dreams. I began taking two pills of X every morning. Then two wasn't enough, and this haunted me in my waking hours, only overshadowed by the pounding of my heart in my eardrums, which was now working overtime to keep up with the nauseating pace I demanded.

The crash came at one of the worst possible time, and probably also the most fortunate. The first month of college. I was a shell. I knew I couldn't go on taking X any longer. My body ached. My mind ached. There was no reprieve, and none of my new friends, the best students in the country, could possibly understand what hell I had driven myself into. I had created a new identity, built on a foundation of lies to myself, and now the two parts were merging again with a vengeance--now I had pushed my body too far.

It was hard for me to call the campus psychiatrist. To hole myself away, to live in a dust storm of confusion and anger, to remove myself from life to make up for the years of abuse.

I began taking pill "Y" to end the emotional anguish. I felt like a nothing. All my insecurities were now back 10 fold, and there was nothing to do. Pill Y was more mainstream. Pill Y, people understood. But without pill Y, I couldn't live with myself, because pill X had extracted my very will to go on from my body. Pill Z came sooner than pill Y had, and with Y and Z every morning, I began to feel better than everyone else again. The way it was supposed to be. Pill Z was great until I found myself in the fetal position weeping on the floor, snot dripping from my chin like a fucking baby because I still hadn't accepted the basic premise: I am perfect as I am. So I stopped taking pill Z, and to my surprise I began feeling better. The psychiatrist wanted me to take increasing dosages of Y--This is the answer, they promised. They were wrong.

I entered a dark period of life--it's a terrible thing, when a man's flame has been put out, and at such a young age.

But I survived. Survival, I realized, was my first priority.

The old saying about the fall being farther the higher you start out from took on an entirely new level of meaning.

I had pushed myself to a level of chemical brilliance, and I fell to a level of chemical hell.

I don't need to continue this narrative for you to know that I pulled myself out of it, partly. I had done a great deal of damage to my mind, body, and soul, but in that damage, I found the kind of peace that few know. It wasn't manifested clearly yet, but it was there. It was a confidence in myself that no matter how low I had fallen, I was still just as perfect as I had ever been. It wasn't until I accepted this basic premise that I began asking the right questions: why did I feel like such death without being in a chemically-altered state of existence? Why Did I feel this way, and not others, who were comparatively less healthy, less driven, less gifted than myself?

It was a battle, and the war still rages, but now I'm winning. I found pill "T", one that I didn't have to feel guilty about--Thyroid medication, that began to make me feel human again. I found cortisol supplements. But more importantly than any of that, I found out that to truly begin living, I needed to accept that fundamentally, I was perfect already. There is no pill big enough to fill a hole your mind, spirit, and ego create.

I don't think this story needs a neatly packaged moral extracted from its depths. Take it as you will, but know that after Faust, the most favorite human of the "Lord" in the entire world and a man who was eternally dissatisfied with his natural state of being, inevitably lost his deal with the devil, he was given a second chance. Goethe was a wise man.

Edited by acantelopepope, 23 December 2009 - 06:47 PM.

#49 Dumbel

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17 posts
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Posted 23 December 2009 - 10:15 PM

At least something to think about, thanks.

But its the society who drives people to take pills to become better than others. It`s something like to be poor or rich, money wise. You have to keep up with the best to not get poor in the future, money wise, when the humans don`t change their minds about work and money.

Edited by Dumbel, 23 December 2009 - 10:17 PM.

#50 425runner

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158 posts
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Posted 23 December 2009 - 11:42 PM

It all comes down to "Survival of the fittest" You need to be better than others to get ahead, especially in the corporate world....and people will do anything.

At least something to think about, thanks.

But its the society who drives people to take pills to become better than others. It`s something like to be poor or rich, money wise. You have to keep up with the best to not get poor in the future, money wise, when the humans don`t change their minds about work and money.

#51 kassem23

Topic Starter
Guest
414 posts
97 ₮

Location:Odense, Denmark
NO

Posted 25 December 2009 - 10:31 PM

Hey Isochroma,

Your writing radiates with poignancy. You have a really great writer's ear, did you know that? You can make something out of that--it's much more rare than you would think, knowing how to express something clearly in writing, articulately even. I, too, have felt the way you feel. I've done it three times, none with any "street" drugs, but instead with much more subtle devils. I began taking pill "X" when I was 15 years old because my snotty physics teacher made me think I was stupid when I couldn't do what some of the other kids could do--kids I later realized had been given the advantage from the day their parents left MIT or Carnegie Mellon or UCLA or even any of the state schools in the US and started working on aeronautics at Boeing. I thought I wasn't funny enough or good looking enough to roll with the cool kids, I thought I wasn't quick enough to make varsity football, I thought I was bound to fail because my mom was an unemployed nurse and my estranged father was a yardworker, I thought I was a less valuable, less fortunate human being because I didn't have a cell phone, an iPod, or a big house in the hills where my privileged class-mates lived. I was wrong. I was completely wrong, but the Ego resists downsizing with all its ability, when really the Ego itself is what keeps us from realizing how perfect we are.

So I took pill X. I took it with religiousness. Before I even got out of bed, I reached over and popped one every morning. At first it was great, like these things always are. Then I began throwing up in the morning, and expecting it, because I didn't believe in the person I was without my drug. I was promoted to supervise 17 people and took five college courses when I was 17, got a girlfriend, and was accepted into a bastion of privilege in the college of my dreams. I began taking two pills of X every morning. Then two wasn't enough, and this haunted me in my waking hours, only overshadowed by the pounding of my heart in my eardrums, which was now working overtime to keep up with the nauseating pace I demanded.

The crash came at one of the worst possible time, and probably also the most fortunate. The first month of college. I was a shell. I knew I couldn't go on taking X any longer. My body ached. My mind ached. There was no reprieve, and none of my new friends, the best students in the country, could possibly understand what hell I had driven myself into. I had created a new identity, built on a foundation of lies to myself, and now the two parts were merging again with a vengeance--now I had pushed my body too far.

It was hard for me to call the campus psychiatrist. To hole myself away, to live in a dust storm of confusion and anger, to remove myself from life to make up for the years of abuse.

I began taking pill "Y" to end the emotional anguish. I felt like a nothing. All my insecurities were now back 10 fold, and there was nothing to do. Pill Y was more mainstream. Pill Y, people understood. But without pill Y, I couldn't live with myself, because pill X had extracted my very will to go on from my body. Pill Z came sooner than pill Y had, and with Y and Z every morning, I began to feel better than everyone else again. The way it was supposed to be. Pill Z was great until I found myself in the fetal position weeping on the floor, snot dripping from my chin like a fucking baby because I still hadn't accepted the basic premise: I am perfect as I am. So I stopped taking pill Z, and to my surprise I began feeling better. The psychiatrist wanted me to take increasing dosages of Y--This is the answer, they promised. They were wrong.

I entered a dark period of life--it's a terrible thing, when a man's flame has been put out, and at such a young age.

But I survived. Survival, I realized, was my first priority.

The old saying about the fall being farther the higher you start out from took on an entirely new level of meaning.

I had pushed myself to a level of chemical brilliance, and I fell to a level of chemical hell.

I don't need to continue this narrative for you to know that I pulled myself out of it, partly. I had done a great deal of damage to my mind, body, and soul, but in that damage, I found the kind of peace that few know. It wasn't manifested clearly yet, but it was there. It was a confidence in myself that no matter how low I had fallen, I was still just as perfect as I had ever been. It wasn't until I accepted this basic premise that I began asking the right questions: why did I feel like such death without being in a chemically-altered state of existence? Why Did I feel this way, and not others, who were comparatively less healthy, less driven, less gifted than myself?

It was a battle, and the war still rages, but now I'm winning. I found pill "T", one that I didn't have to feel guilty about--Thyroid medication, that began to make me feel human again. I found cortisol supplements. But more importantly than any of that, I found out that to truly begin living, I needed to accept that fundamentally, I was perfect already. There is no pill big enough to fill a hole your mind, spirit, and ego create.

I don't think this story needs a neatly packaged moral extracted from its depths. Take it as you will, but know that after Faust, the most favorite human of the "Lord" in the entire world and a man who was eternally dissatisfied with his natural state of being, inevitably lost his deal with the devil, he was given a second chance. Goethe was a wise man.

Beautiful and well written. I couldn't agree more. You have to fight for survival and for success. I, myself, have to accept the fact that there are no quick-fixable issues. Only long-term strategies that can help one achieve what one wants.. But whenever anyone writes something about being able to learn faster and retain more information I feel baffled by that. I want that. I want an eidetic memory and be able to remember but also understand all the things that I need to understand - and I want to do so - fast. I want to be able to learn effectively, and DO MORE in LESS TIME. But I see now, that no drug - unfortunately, can give me that. Drugs can give me speed and energy, but they can't give me eidetic memory or synesthesia or become a better learner. I have to use effective learning strategies instead and implement them in my learning process. But I dwell in quick-fixable ideas.. From supplements to brain waves. I am too easily affected by the claims that the products address. Just thoughts from a college student experiencing the same frustration a lot of people in here are also experiencing. Tiredness/mental-fatigue and not being able to learn FAST or GOOD enough. It's all very hard issues to fix and require a lot of discipline, motivation and diligence.

Just my five cents.

#52 HMan

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Posted 27 December 2009 - 03:03 AM

Kassem23, are you still hyper dosing Piracetam? I thought that Piracetam was to improve cognitive function, especially for you as a college student. Do you find that Piracetam is helping you to study?

Have you ever tried Pyritinol and Huperzine A? I heard that they are good for studying.

I used Vinpocetine and Huperzine A in a Focus Formula to help me with my last exams. I think that it helped.

Edited by HMan, 27 December 2009 - 03:04 AM.

#53 kassem23

Topic Starter
Guest
414 posts
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Location:Odense, Denmark
NO

Posted 28 December 2009 - 03:12 AM

Kassem23, are you still hyper dosing Piracetam? I thought that Piracetam was to improve cognitive function, especially for you as a college student. Do you find that Piracetam is helping you to study?

Have you ever tried Pyritinol and Huperzine A? I heard that they are good for studying.

I used Vinpocetine and Huperzine A in a Focus Formula to help me with my last exams. I think that it helped.

I stopped hyper dosing, as I don't see any need to do so. It gives me almost the same effect at 1.2 grams at 5-6 grams, and the difference isn't worth the price. I think hyper dosing is really good if you're going out and you want to experience real visual change, like I did at the party. I've already become accustomed to the clearness/lucidity Piracetam gives me. Even if I don't take my dose every day, the effects are still with me. As people said Piracetam is cumulative, I see no reason to change my regime now.

I am using Piracetam to improve cognitive function HMan. But Piracetam is subtle on a cognitive level - I think. I haven't noticed any remarkable eidetic memory, but I have noticed a general more content and focused feeling. I'm able to speak better. Fluency and flow is improving over time. But no god-like abilities, and I still get tired once in a while, but definitely not as much as before. I was looking for the great panacea, although there is no such thing - for me, at least.

Piracetam wakes up your brain? Yes. Piracetam improves your visual clarity? Yes. Piracetam improves speech fluidity? Yes. Piracetam improves general well-being? Yes. Piracetam improves memory? Can't say.

I believe that Piracetam improves the activity in the corpus callosum, thus a better cross-hemispheric connection. The result of this connection is seen in my writing and my use of language. A lot of questions have popped into my mind lately. More than usual. This might be Piracetam as well. But I don't know. Good luck with it.

Regarding your question about Pyritinol and Huperzine A? No. I've been looking into acetylcholinesterase inhibitors, like Donepezil and Huperzine A - but I haven't decided yet. Maybe I'll just try to optimize my study regime instead of trying to find "something."

Have any one tried Selegiline? And is it as bad as Adderall, when its metabolites are amphetamines?

See you guys around

Edited by kassem23, 28 December 2009 - 03:20 AM.

#54 Warrior

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Location:California, USA

Posted 30 August 2010 - 04:26 AM

Today I experienced something like that 'mania', but it wasn't that exactly, or maybe it was!

I processed vaster amounts of data today, reading thru huge volumes of material and absorbing it all, forming all the connections, seeing all the complexity in its trivial detail [paradox warning!]. Listening to the waves of epic soundtracks while becoming one with the digital mechanism, dancing together under the warm light of my 25.6 kilolumen light - winter is dark and depressing! (for other people)

The poor chicks at my house lost their wireless connection and now have to sit in the cold dungeon downstairs (one at a time, babes!) with their laptops plugged into the lone ethernet jack. In the dark without warmth, without Vitamin D, without piracetam! What a tragedy. My eyes are watering up just writing about that sorry, sorry state. One that I was in not so many years ago.

Towards the end of the day the weight of accomplishment became a lightness of being, culminating in my evil, cackling laughter at the funny comments on a certain site about a certain reactionless microwave drive. Extending the chortles was the sure knowledge that infinity awaited and only time was my enemy with an almost limitless horizon of worlds to explore and competencies to gain.

The true depth and extent of my evil plans washed over me like a liquid tide, a liquid tide I could ride as a fractional mind in an infinite universe! There is so much to do, that I wish I could replicate myself to take all the paths. To have lots of eyes and lots of hands to type on many keyboards. To have a thousand hands and a thousand eyes to go with them. All reading and writing and processing, all together in the same time frame yet in their own frames. All connected by the master hyperthreader, without any kind of spinlock.

Whole worlds exist in tiny fractions of time, split seconds of eternity when entropic processing occurs. There is not enough I/O bandwidth and channels to maximize internal functional capacity.

I know that for sure when like today, the one bad thing happens: I'm getting frustrated waiting for the damn threads on my box to finish so I can resume the multitude of tasks that are in current quasiparallel execution on the hardware-wetware hybrid. Cursing the Windows software devs for not writing better, less inhibited software. I want those gears running slick and together, without lockups. It ain't a slow box either - AthlonXP 2.25GHz with 2.5GB DDR400.

As the final scraps of hundreds of files and pages settled into their most perfect place, I knew that today was a rotational day: one of those special days when everything rotates into a totally new configuration!

Today I saw that Heaven and Hell are one and the same. They are all within me. It was the most exciting realization of the day, all thanks to the miracle molecule piracetam... the nicest part is being left at the end with everything perfectly filed and organized, and mental energy left over for a night of great anime.

There is the sense today that there isn't enough time to get it all out. Music sounds incredible - somewhat like a low-dose psychedelic trip. Piracetam's usual ability to spacialize and dimensionalize sound, to make every frequency and instrument discriminable, and yet make the whole piece weave together without scalar conflict - these became magnificently apparent in exaggerated fashion.

And that final thing, the most ineffable of all - something is calling to me. Silently it calls, driving me toward something that I know must absolutely be traversed into, discovered, opened up. It can be heard all by itself, but is also apparent in the singing of the server's fan and especially the sound of its multiple hard drives - all spinning together at 7200RPM. Any tone, especially mid to upper frequency range has been able - if I'm suitably primed and functional - to serve as the base conductor for that mighty voice. That beautiful singing, like a mermaid tempting sailors to their doom. I call it the sound of the universe, because it comes from everywhere and nowhere.

It speaks not in words, nor in bars or chords. Yet its voice can bring tears to the eyes or soul to the heart.

It's not often that I'm able to spontaneously hear that amazing voice, but I'm always able to on a psychedelic. To have reached the state without anything at all save piracetam means I'm progressing toward more intimate contact with it.

It wants me like a mechanic wants a wrench. I am its tool. Yet I am happy to be its lowly tool, because it has a shining purpose. It needs to use me for something that goes far beyond anything I ever saw or did or was before. What's frustrating is not being at a high enough level to decode what it wants. Like a fish that sees the sunlight's rays filtering down through aqua waters, but can't break the surface. Somewhere beyond the water is the source. The great star that is not Sol but something else.

That strident call that like a maddening horn of heaven or hell shouts in its quiet voice to those who can hear it. Begging, demanding, asking, chiding. It wants me for a purpose that I can't yet comprehend.

I have so much experience to add to this forum and some of it's topics, and so many questions and so much to learn. Yet somehow, my first post is to laugh at the maniacal and possibly borderline narcissistic nature of your post.

And yes, I realize this is an old thread and apologize for bumping it.

#55 bacopa

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2,223 posts
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Location:Boston

Posted 30 August 2010 - 07:56 AM

hehe, I just took 5 grams of Piracetam hoping for some maniacal fun like that guy! Unfortunately it only seems to give me almost a dompamine rush like PEA did in the past.

I also felt this on Pramiracetam. But, no, sadly music doesn't sound heavenly, or even much better actually, and nothing of great worth as of yet. But I'll continue to take a 3 gram dose everyday and see my progress/regress.

I'll help out on the flashlight experiment when I get my 2 weeks in.

Oh heavens! I hear thy sirens beckoning to me telling me my God like powers are too big for this sad little world! :-D