80 replies to this topic

[health_nutty]

Has the calcium actually helped? Originally you said it may have, but since your BP is still a little highish, maybe that wasn't the cause? But testing for several weeks is probably a good idea regardless.

There are some other BP supplements you can try, if you haven't already. Meganaturals makes a grapeseed extract with some BP lowering studies behind it. Pycnogenol is another alternative, but expensive.

It seems like *something* is helping a bit, hard to say what since I made several changes at once. Things I'm taking showed improvement at the end of 4-8 *weeks* in the research. So really I should be patient!

[livingguy]

Updated regimine:
2000 IU of vitamin D
600mg of magnesium citrate
1500mg of calcium citrate
2 caps of a 4 a day multi (Source Naturals life force no iron)
500mg pomp40 extract
2G of beta-alanine
500mg benfotiamine
Vitamin K2 (Mk-7)
2G of fish oild
Supplemental potassium in the form of salt substitute (potassium chloride)
Garlic pills (2 with each meal)
4 tablespoons of tomato paste mixed with olive oil
50mg of ubilquinol (CO-Q10) 2x a day
Practicing slow breathing and generally trying to remain calm
Completely eliminated caffeine. (now 11 days of no caffeine )
Drinking herbal tea with hibiscus
3G of taurine spread throughout the day.

Thinking about trying hawthorn berry. I'm going to give the 2x 50mg of ubiliqinol, taurnine, tomato paste, and calcium a try for 4 weeks. If that doesn't bring it down I'll get some hawthorn berry extract.

Your updated regime has 2grams of fish oil, earlier you wrote you take 4grams of fish oil a day. Is this a typo? If it is not increasing it to 4 grams should help. Adding Taurine 4000 mg divided and taken without food, Pycnogenol 200mg and increasing Ubiqinol by 50 or 100mg should all help.

[health_nutty]

Updated regimine:
2000 IU of vitamin D
600mg of magnesium citrate
1500mg of calcium citrate
2 caps of a 4 a day multi (Source Naturals life force no iron)
500mg pomp40 extract
2G of beta-alanine
500mg benfotiamine
Vitamin K2 (Mk-7)
2G of fish oild
Supplemental potassium in the form of salt substitute (potassium chloride)
Garlic pills (2 with each meal)
4 tablespoons of tomato paste mixed with olive oil
50mg of ubilquinol (CO-Q10) 2x a day
Practicing slow breathing and generally trying to remain calm
Completely eliminated caffeine. (now 11 days of no caffeine )
Drinking herbal tea with hibiscus
3G of taurine spread throughout the day.

Thinking about trying hawthorn berry. I'm going to give the 2x 50mg of ubiliqinol, taurnine, tomato paste, and calcium a try for 4 weeks. If that doesn't bring it down I'll get some hawthorn berry extract.

Your updated regime has 2grams of fish oil, earlier you wrote you take 4grams of fish oil a day. Is this a typo? If it is not increasing it to 4 grams should help. Adding Taurine 4000 mg divided and taken without food, Pycnogenol 200mg and increasing Ubiqinol by 50 or 100mg should all help.

Yes, that is a typo, I take 4 pills a day which equal 4G. I did double my ubiquinol from 50mg once to 50mg 2x. I could up my taurine from 3G to 4G. Should I take pycnogenol or grape seed extract (see article below)?

http://www.supplemen...onoidBookS4.htm

In the January/February 1995 issue of American Journal of Natural Medicine, Dr. Michael T. Murray, a famous naturopathic doctor, reviewed this very issue in his article, "PCO sources: Grape seed vs. pine bark." (PCO stands for proanthocyanidins. The term OPC-oligometeric proanthocyanidin complexes-refers to the same thing.) Dr. Murray concluded that both grape-seed extract and Pycnogenol are well-defined chemically and both are excellent sources of PCOs. However, he points out that over the past twenty years, grape-seed extract has undergone more clinical and experimental research, and that grape-seed extract may be a more potent and effective antioxidant due to its other free-radical scavenging components. Finally, grape-seed extract products tend to be cheaper than Pycnogenol or other pine-bark extracts due to the annual crop of grape seeds that are available from the grape juice and wine industries. In the end, it's most important to include one or both of these bioflavonoid products in your dietary regimen in order to reduce your risk of disease, such as cardiovascular disease, while improving your overall health and well-being.

[livingguy]

Updated regimine:
2000 IU of vitamin D
600mg of magnesium citrate
1500mg of calcium citrate
2 caps of a 4 a day multi (Source Naturals life force no iron)
500mg pomp40 extract
2G of beta-alanine
500mg benfotiamine
Vitamin K2 (Mk-7)
2G of fish oild
Supplemental potassium in the form of salt substitute (potassium chloride)
Garlic pills (2 with each meal)
4 tablespoons of tomato paste mixed with olive oil
50mg of ubilquinol (CO-Q10) 2x a day
Practicing slow breathing and generally trying to remain calm
Completely eliminated caffeine. (now 11 days of no caffeine )
Drinking herbal tea with hibiscus
3G of taurine spread throughout the day.

Thinking about trying hawthorn berry. I'm going to give the 2x 50mg of ubiliqinol, taurnine, tomato paste, and calcium a try for 4 weeks. If that doesn't bring it down I'll get some hawthorn berry extract.

Your updated regime has 2grams of fish oil, earlier you wrote you take 4grams of fish oil a day. Is this a typo? If it is not increasing it to 4 grams should help. Adding Taurine 4000 mg divided and taken without food, Pycnogenol 200mg and increasing Ubiqinol by 50 or 100mg should all help.

Yes, that is a typo, I take 4 pills a day which equal 4G. I did double my ubiquinol from 50mg once to 50mg 2x. I could up my taurine from 3G to 4G. Should I take pycnogenol or grape seed extract (see article below)?

http://www.supplemen...onoidBookS4.htm

In the January/February 1995 issue of American Journal of Natural Medicine, Dr. Michael T. Murray, a famous naturopathic doctor, reviewed this very issue in his article, "PCO sources: Grape seed vs. pine bark." (PCO stands for proanthocyanidins. The term OPC-oligometeric proanthocyanidin complexes-refers to the same thing.) Dr. Murray concluded that both grape-seed extract and Pycnogenol are well-defined chemically and both are excellent sources of PCOs. However, he points out that over the past twenty years, grape-seed extract has undergone more clinical and experimental research, and that grape-seed extract may be a more potent and effective antioxidant due to its other free-radical scavenging components. Finally, grape-seed extract products tend to be cheaper than Pycnogenol or other pine-bark extracts due to the annual crop of grape seeds that are available from the grape juice and wine industries. In the end, it's most important to include one or both of these bioflavonoid products in your dietary regimen in order to reduce your risk of disease, such as cardiovascular disease, while improving your overall health and well-being.

Increase your ubiqinol to atleast 50mg 3x.
Problem with grape seed extracts is that there is a lot of variation in the extracts. In my own experience I find pycnogenol to be much better and predictable source of PCO's. Start with 100mg 2x.

You may also want to look at life extensions's cocoa extract with Pomagrenate taken with on empty stomach does have some impact on blood pressure and is good for you otherwise too.

[nameless]

Although I take pycnogenol, I'd probably recommend trying grapeseed first, just due to cost.

For BP, you can consider this one:

http://www.polypheno...News/FASEB.html

But I expect most grapeseed extracts to have a similar effect. And if looking for best price, Swanson's usually has really cheap grapeseed from Meganaturals when they have their sales.

There is one weird study where grapeseed + C actually increased BP though, so just keep an eye on things. Study could have been an aberration, or it was due to the high dosing.

Edited by nameless, 20 December 2009 - 07:49 PM.

[livingguy]

Although I take pycnogenol, I'd probably recommend trying grapeseed first, just due to cost.

For BP, you can consider this one:

http://www.polypheno...News/FASEB.html

But I expect most grapeseed extracts to have a similar effect. And if looking for best price, Swanson's usually has really cheap grapeseed from Meganaturals when they have their sales.

There is one weird study where grapeseed + C actually increased BP though, so just keep an eye on things. Study could have been an aberration, or it was due to the high dosing.

Yes he could ofcourse try grapeseed, this specific extract meganatural can work. LEF has a product that uses this along with some other natural ACE substances and it works. I have though not seen much effect of usual common grape seed extract on BP. I have however, seen this effect with pycnogenol. Dont know why but from experience I know they are different.

[nameless]

I have however, seen this effect with pycnogenol. Dont know why but from experience I know they are different.

I agree that they have different effects, although I never really noticed (or checked) for BP lowering differences. If taking a decent grapeseed with studies (meganatural, activin, masquellier's), there shouldn't be much variation as to OPC content within that specific brand. But it's possible pycnogenol could work better. Again, it's the cost thing -- I really wish there was a cheaper pycnogenol available. $5-$10 vs $30/month is a pretty big difference.

[livingguy]

I have however, seen this effect with pycnogenol. Dont know why but from experience I know they are different.

I agree that they have different effects, although I never really noticed (or checked) for BP lowering differences. If taking a decent grapeseed with studies (meganatural, activin, masquellier's), there shouldn't be much variation as to OPC content within that specific brand. But it's possible pycnogenol could work better. Again, it's the cost thing -- I really wish there was a cheaper pycnogenol available. $5-$10 vs $30/month is a pretty big difference.

I would join you in that wish:) would save me some money too.

[ajnast4r]

i would avoid taking anything like pycnogenol or other vasorelaxants until you try all the basics... let the doctor do a full workup, tracking & making sure your n:k ratio is in check, dropping your n down below 1500mg, stress management, etc

[livingguy]

i would avoid taking anything like pycnogenol or other vasorelaxants until you try all the basics... let the doctor do a full workup, tracking & making sure your n:k ratio is in check, dropping your n down below 1500mg, stress management, etc

Ofcourse all these sugesions we have been giving assume that he undergoes full medical exam and there is no secondry cause for hypertension. Stress managemen, n:k ratio etc should all be taken care of first.

So health nutty how your blood pressure has been in the last few days?

[health_nutty]

i would avoid taking anything like pycnogenol or other vasorelaxants until you try all the basics... let the doctor do a full workup, tracking & making sure your n:k ratio is in check, dropping your n down below 1500mg, stress management, etc

Ofcourse all these sugesions we have been giving assume that he undergoes full medical exam and there is no secondry cause for hypertension. Stress managemen, n:k ratio etc should all be taken care of first.

So health nutty how your blood pressure has been in the last few days?

Sorry for the lack of reply, I've been on vacation for the last 2 weeks. My blood pressure this morning is 125/82 pulse 53 and 126/83 pulse 61 tonight. It does seem to be moving in the right direction. Thanks for all the tips gentlemen!

[livingguy]

i would avoid taking anything like pycnogenol or other vasorelaxants until you try all the basics... let the doctor do a full workup, tracking & making sure your n:k ratio is in check, dropping your n down below 1500mg, stress management, etc

Ofcourse all these sugesions we have been giving assume that he undergoes full medical exam and there is no secondry cause for hypertension. Stress managemen, n:k ratio etc should all be taken care of first.

So health nutty how your blood pressure has been in the last few days?

Sorry for the lack of reply, I've been on vacation for the last 2 weeks. My blood pressure this morning is 125/82 pulse 53 and 126/83 pulse 61 tonight. It does seem to be moving in the right direction. Thanks for all the tips gentlemen!

Yes it does seem to be moving in the right direction. Can you afford to loose about 5 pounds of weight?

[health_nutty]

i would avoid taking anything like pycnogenol or other vasorelaxants until you try all the basics... let the doctor do a full workup, tracking & making sure your n:k ratio is in check, dropping your n down below 1500mg, stress management, etc

Ofcourse all these sugesions we have been giving assume that he undergoes full medical exam and there is no secondry cause for hypertension. Stress managemen, n:k ratio etc should all be taken care of first.

So health nutty how your blood pressure has been in the last few days?

Sorry for the lack of reply, I've been on vacation for the last 2 weeks. My blood pressure this morning is 125/82 pulse 53 and 126/83 pulse 61 tonight. It does seem to be moving in the right direction. Thanks for all the tips gentlemen!

Yes it does seem to be moving in the right direction. Can you afford to loose about 5 pounds of weight?

I'm about 8% bodyfat right now, losing 5 pounds would be *possible* but I would be very very lean.

[health_nutty]

yesterday: 119/78 pulse 61 morning 117/83 pulse 57 *night*
This morning 110/73 pulse 53.

3 known changes recently:
1) Added 1 cup fresh celery juice. I had tried 4 celery stalks whole a day, about a cup worth of juice with no noticable effect.
2) I had some L-citrulline powder laying around so I tried taking 2g at night for the last 4 days.
3) I ran out of my hibiscus tea so I haven't had it for the last 3 days. At least I know it isn't necessary to bring my BP way down.

Also some could be some of the things I've been trying such as adding calcium, coq10, and taurine take some time to work and they are
finally kicking in.

[livingguy]

yesterday: 119/78 pulse 61 morning 117/83 pulse 57 *night*
This morning 110/73 pulse 53.

3 known changes recently:
1) Added 1 cup fresh celery juice. I had tried 4 celery stalks whole a day, about a cup worth of juice with no noticable effect.
2) I had some L-citrulline powder laying around so I tried taking 2g at night for the last 4 days.
3) I ran out of my hibiscus tea so I haven't had it for the last 3 days. At least I know it isn't necessary to bring my BP way down.

Also some could be some of the things I've been trying such as adding calcium, coq10, and taurine take some time to work and they are
finally kicking in.

Thats great news. Do you mind kindly posting your current full list of supllements.

[health_nutty]

4000 IU of vitamin D
600mg of magnesium citrate
1000mg of calcium citrate
2 caps of a 4 a day multi (Source Naturals life force no iron)
500mg pomp40 extract
500mg of 50% EGCG green tea extract (caffeine free)
2G of beta-alanine
500mg benfotiamine
Vitamin K2 (Mk-7)
2G of fish oil
Supplemental potassium in the form of salt substitute (potassium chloride)
4 tablespoons of tomato paste mixed with olive oil
50mg of ubilquinol (CO-Q10) 2x a day (I ran out for the last 2 days and am waiting for iherb shipment!)
Practicing slow breathing and generally trying to remain calm
Mostly eliminated caffeine (2 cups of green tea)
Drinking herbal tea with hibiscus (ran out and am waiting for iherb shipment)
6G of taurine spread throughout the day.
1 cup of celery juice a day
500mg of silymarin
2G of L-citrulline nightly
1 cup of cats daily for beta glutans
250mg of resveratrol powder with lecithin held in mouth for ten minutes then swallowed (first thing in the morning)

Edited by health_nutty, 07 January 2010 - 04:43 PM.

[sentrysnipe]

Hello, sir, do you take Mg and Ca Citrate
a. separately or together?
b. in multiple doses or at one time?

Congratulations on your new readings!

Edited by sentrysnipe, 07 January 2010 - 07:55 PM.

[health_nutty]

Hello, sir, do you take Mg and Ca Citrate
a. separately or together?
b. in multiple doses or at one time?

Congratulations on your new readings!

I take them together split into 3 doses a day (one dose after every meal).

[sentrysnipe]

May I ask, why eliminate both Vit C and Grape Seed Extract? I'm looking at this study http://www.fasebj.or...act/21/6/A881-d

and it looks encouraging. They used a dose of 300mg GSE for 8 weeks.

[nowayout]

I had a similar problem.

Last year my BP was on average around 140/85.

This year it slowly corrected itself. It is now every time a few points below 120/75, which is perfect.

This was after stopping all supplements except a drugstore multi and adding vitamin D around 2000-3000 IU daily.

It may be that your improvement in BP also happened independently of all the supplements you are taking.

[health_nutty]

May I ask, why eliminate both Vit C and Grape Seed Extract? I'm looking at this study http://www.fasebj.or...act/21/6/A881-d

and it looks encouraging

I eliminated GSE first, then vitamin C later. It was just an experiment to see if vitamin C was interacting with a different polyphenol in my supplement regemine. I may add GSE back once I'm sure what is lowering my BP. I just don't want my BP to go up and falsely blame the GSE. Too many varaibles at once and all that.

Edited by health_nutty, 08 January 2010 - 01:03 AM.