80 replies to this topic

[health_nutty]

cocoa can be fairly stimulating... i would avoid it until your bp is managed

Yeah, I noticed I had trouble going to sleep last night even though I don't feel the effects of cocoa like I do caffeine. This morning I woke up and my BP was 119/78. 30 minutes after my resveratrol I measured again (still fasted except for resveratrol) I was 117/82. I'll bet the cocoa stimulants aren't doing my BP any favors!

[health_nutty]

I did the free Breathing Exercises thing last night, it sure did lower my heart rate!!!

http://csd.mcmaster....d-relaxation-cd

http://socialanxiety...t/breathing.htm


It sure does lower BP too (the lady with ~200 systolic down to 135, that's good right?):

I've been doing breathing exercises while commuting. Pretty relaxing. 200 down to 135 is a fantastic drop! Although 135 isn't ideal, it is much much better than 200!

[sentrysnipe]

How about Methylcobalamin?

"For high blood pressure a B12 injection will lower high blood pressure in most, if not all, women to "normal" levels within 20-30 minutes."

I'm gonna buy some

[niner]

How about Methylcobalamin?

"For high blood pressure a B12 injection will lower high blood pressure in most, if not all, women to "normal" levels within 20-30 minutes."

I'm gonna buy some

Isn't this just treating hypertension by taking a drug? (A pharmacological dose of a vitamin) Wouldn't it be better to treat the cause of the hypertension if possible?

[sentrysnipe]

How about Methylcobalamin?

"For high blood pressure a B12 injection will lower high blood pressure in most, if not all, women to "normal" levels within 20-30 minutes."

I'm gonna buy some

Isn't this just treating hypertension by taking a drug? (A pharmacological dose of a vitamin) Wouldn't it be better to treat the cause of the hypertension if possible?

Stress and anxiety cause hypertension. Edema / Fluid retention also causes the vessels to constrict thereby causing hypertension. B12 and P-5-P are used respectively.

We can argue that him doing the breathing exercises and taking cal and mag are also drug administrations, but I don't consider them as such.

His hypertension is probably idiopathic at this point unless we can get a hold of catecholamine levels and ECG / stress test reading. I don't think he has arterial plaque but this is online.

[nameless]

But if it was induced by a calcium deficiency, then he knows the cause and can treat it by simply taking calcium. I wouldn't consider treating a deficiency the same thing as drug administration.

To me, it'd make sense to approach it as he has been. First determine if lack of calcium is the reason for his high BP. If not, then try other things.

Edited by nameless, 14 December 2009 - 01:08 AM.

[health_nutty]

Cocoa free today and my BP is doing better: 124/82 and 126/80 taken at two different times.

[sentrysnipe]

Cocoa free today and my BP is doing better: 124/82 and 126/80 taken at two different times.

The highest readings you mentioned in your previous posts were all morning BP levels, right? Upon waking up?

[health_nutty]

Cocoa free today and my BP is doing better: 124/82 and 126/80 taken at two different times.

The highest readings you mentioned in your previous posts were all morning BP levels, right? Upon waking up?

The highest readings have been at night after I put the kiddos to bed. I normally take BP twice a day: first thing in the morning and at night. I'll really should keep an log!

[livingguy]

Cocoa free today and my BP is doing better: 124/82 and 126/80 taken at two different times.

Cocoa extract works better atleast in the short term, if you want to use it for hypertension.

[livingguy]

Also try stopping MK7 for a couple of weeks with few it can make a difference.

Cocoa extract with Pomegranate and Blue berry by lef taken on empty stomach will also make a small positive difference.

I forgot to include it in my supplement list but I do take 4g of fish oil a day as well (have for a long long time). I'm pretty certain I had/have a calcium deficiency. My BP has been going down steadily since taking 500mg of calcium citrate 3x a day.

But did you cut out the green tea at the same time? Although I suppose if you add the green tea back later, and BP remains low, you'll know it was a calcium deficiency.

Livingguy:

Never heard of MK7 having any relation to BP before. You have any study links for that?

Nameless no studies just my experience and of some others I know. There are many things that effect blood pressure and not everyone is affected in the same way. So for e.g Tocotrienols also raise my blood pressure everytime I have taken them.

[health_nutty]

I woke up today real anxious because I had a crazy dream: BP was 140/68 consistently over 4 readings. An hour later I measured and it ranged from 140/70 to 109/68 (140/70, 135/72, 111/70, 141/68, 109/67). Weird. My readings always fluctuate quite a bit, but this is more than normal.

Note last night was my full body weight workout but it was kind of a light day (I wasn't going all out).

Edited by health_nutty, 14 December 2009 - 04:11 PM.

[livingguy]

I woke up today real anxious because I had a crazy dream: BP was 140/68 consistently over 4 readings. An hour later I measured and it ranged from 140/70 to 109/68 (140/70, 135/72, 111/70, 141/68, 109/67). Weird. My readings always fluctuate quite a bit, but this is more than normal.

Note last night was my full body weight workout but it was kind of a light day (I wasn't going all out).

Why dont you try by removing ALCAR and resveratrol for a few days and increasing your ubiqinol. I am sure you would feel better.

[kismet]

Nameless no studies just my experience and of some others I know. There are many things that effect blood pressure and not everyone is affected in the same way. So for e.g Tocotrienols also raise my blood pressure everytime I have taken them.

That is extremely unlikely, barring somes trange oversensitivity/allergy-like reactions to any of the compounds. Heck, the best comprehensive dietary regimens reduce blood pressure by several mm Hg (and I don't think that's a "huge standard deviation, small average" thingy). How could anyone even notice such small changes?

Edited by kismet, 14 December 2009 - 10:09 PM.

[livingguy]

Nameless no studies just my experience and of some others I know. There are many things that effect blood pressure and not everyone is affected in the same way. So for e.g Tocotrienols also raise my blood pressure everytime I have taken them.

That is extremely unlikely, barring somes trange oversensitivity/allergy-like reactions to any of the compounds. Heck, the best comprehensive dietary regimens reduce blood pressure by several mm Hg (and I don't think that's a "huge standard deviation, small average" thingy). How could anyone even notice such small changes?

It is possible when you measure your blood pressure after introducing any new supplements. I am not suggesting everyone would notice or would be affected. In the case of Tocotrienols, I have always noticed a increase in BP after trying LEF super booster(which at that time use to actually contain them) and then a Jarrow prodcut. Actually high doses of Vitamin E also did that to me.

[health_nutty]

BP: 141/78 last night. I'm dropping resveratrol and ALCAR to see if that makes a difference.

[livingguy]

BP: 141/78 last night. I'm dropping resveratrol and ALCAR to see if that makes a difference.

Thats good, you can always restart if it does not make a difference lets see how you do without them. Once you know the effect of this you can also remove MK7 for a few days to see if that is the culprit and then try increasing Ubiqinol for a few weeks.

[sentrysnipe]

BP: 141/78 last night. I'm dropping resveratrol and ALCAR to see if that makes a difference.

Thats good, you can always restart if it does not make a difference lets see how you do without them. Once you know the effect of this you can also remove MK7 for a few days to see if that is the culprit and then try increasing Ubiqinol for a few weeks.

how would mk7 increase his bp?

[health_nutty]

How long should I go without resveratrol / alcar before determining they are causing my BP to increase or not? 2 weeks? 3 weeks?

[shaggy]

BP: 141/78 last night. I'm dropping resveratrol and ALCAR to see if that makes a difference.

Thats good, you can always restart if it does not make a difference lets see how you do without them. Once you know the effect of this you can also remove MK7 for a few days to see if that is the culprit and then try increasing Ubiqinol for a few weeks.

how would mk7 increase his bp?

Good point, suprised resveratrol has been mentioned too.

As for alcar I've searched for literature and can find nothing to suggest it raises bp. I realise it can have vasoconstricting properties, but I've found no clinical evidence it raises bp.

Any one point me in the right direction?

[health_nutty]

There are some surprising interactions between seemingly safe' supplements that by themselves decrease blood pressure. One interaction is vitamin C and grape seed extract raises blood pressure combined, but seperately they lower it. Come to think of it I do consume a lot of polyphenols, maybe I shouldn't be megadosing vitamin C in case there is a similar interaction.

[livingguy]

There are some surprising interactions between seemingly safe' supplements that by themselves decrease blood pressure. One interaction is vitamin C and grape seed extract raises blood pressure combined, but seperately they lower it. Come to think of it I do consume a lot of polyphenols, maybe I shouldn't be megadosing vitamin C in case there is a similar interaction.

If you are measuring your BP a few times a day even a week would tell you if ALCAR or Resveratrol were the culprit, if not you should restart them and stop some others for a week. You are right, Grape seed extract and Vitamin C together raise it. Just take them at different times and see.

At some point in time increase ubiqinol. Pycnogenol reduces BP too. So does Taurine, Magnesium, AOR has a new product for Blood pressure too. Lets give it a 3-4 weeks of experimentation and you would know.

Edited by livingguy, 16 December 2009 - 04:52 AM.

[livingguy]

BP: 141/78 last night. I'm dropping resveratrol and ALCAR to see if that makes a difference.

Thats good, you can always restart if it does not make a difference lets see how you do without them. Once you know the effect of this you can also remove MK7 for a few days to see if that is the culprit and then try increasing Ubiqinol for a few weeks.

how would mk7 increase his bp?

Good point, suprised resveratrol has been mentioned too.

As for alcar I've searched for literature and can find nothing to suggest it raises bp. I realise it can have vasoconstricting properties, but I've found no clinical evidence it raises bp.

Any one point me in the right direction?

Not all effects and specially interactions are documented. Then everyone is different some people can be sensitive to one substance and others to some thing else. If he is experiencing an unwanted thing isnt it wise to remove supplements one by one and reintroduce them if they are not the culprit. Its possible that none of his supplements are causing it but this is the only way to find out.

[livingguy]

BP: 141/78 last night. I'm dropping resveratrol and ALCAR to see if that makes a difference.

Can you please also measure your pulse when you check your BP. What is your weight and age?

[health_nutty]

BP: 141/78 last night. I'm dropping resveratrol and ALCAR to see if that makes a difference.

Can you please also measure your pulse when you check your BP. What is your weight and age?

I weigh 145 lbs at 5'10" %8 BF age 33. My pulse is around 50 in the morning and 60 at night. I'm starting an excel spreadsheet and will add pulse to the list.

[health_nutty]

This is with dropping resveratrol, ALCAR, and vitamin C. I'm looking fine first thing in the morning, then it rapidly goes up firmly in the prehypertension range. These are the averages of 3-5 measurements taken during that sitting.

Morning 7am
119/77 P52
Night 8:08pm
132/73 P62

Morning 7am
118/73 P55
Night
133/77 P56

Morning 7am
117/75 P51
Night:
no measurement

Mid morning 11am:
135/72 P50

Edited by health_nutty, 19 December 2009 - 07:33 PM.

[health_nutty]

Updated regimine:
2000 IU of vitamin D
600mg of magnesium citrate
1500mg of calcium citrate
2 caps of a 4 a day multi (Source Naturals life force no iron)
500mg pomp40 extract
2G of beta-alanine
500mg benfotiamine
Vitamin K2 (Mk-7)
2G of fish oild
Supplemental potassium in the form of salt substitute (potassium chloride)
Garlic pills (2 with each meal)
4 tablespoons of tomato paste mixed with olive oil
50mg of ubilquinol (CO-Q10) 2x a day
Practicing slow breathing and generally trying to remain calm
Completely eliminated caffeine. (now 11 days of no caffeine )
Drinking herbal tea with hibiscus
3G of taurine spread throughout the day.

Thinking about trying hawthorn berry. I'm going to give the 2x 50mg of ubiliqinol, taurnine, tomato paste, and calcium a try for 4 weeks. If that doesn't bring it down I'll get some hawthorn berry extract.

[niner]

600mg of magnesium citrate
1500mg of calcium citrate
2 caps of a 4 a day multi (Source Naturals life force no iron)

That's a lot of dications, FWIW. Not a crazy amount, but it's something to watch. Don't want no kidney stones....

[health_nutty]

600mg of magnesium citrate
1500mg of calcium citrate
2 caps of a 4 a day multi (Source Naturals life force no iron)

That's a lot of dications, FWIW. Not a crazy amount, but it's something to watch. Don't want no kidney stones....

I'm going to lower my calcium to 1000mg after 3 weeks. I've been getting very little for a while so I have it a bit high at the moment. Thanks for the info.

[nameless]

Has the calcium actually helped? Originally you said it may have, but since your BP is still a little highish, maybe that wasn't the cause? But testing for several weeks is probably a good idea regardless.

There are some other BP supplements you can try, if you haven't already. Meganaturals makes a grapeseed extract with some BP lowering studies behind it. Pycnogenol is another alternative, but expensive.