80 replies to this topic

[health_nutty]

I measured my blood pressure at home for the past 3 weeks and it has been consistently high. I haven't check my blood pressure in a while before the 3 weeks. For the past 7 years my blood pressure has always been normal at the doctors office 110-120/70-80 mm Hg. Now it has been as high as 145/87 with the lowest I've seen it at 114/67. The average being 130/80. The first reading in one sitting is always the highest and the rest fluctuate (I usually take 3 readings or so). I take I measure the first thing in the morning and at night after I put the kiddos to bed. Sometimes my blood pressure will be normal for 2 days in a row, then it shoots back up.

I do 4 days a week of cardio (2-3 days of ultimate frisbee and 1-3 days of jogging 6 miles). The ultimate frisbee is much more intense exercise. I do full body weightlifting routing two times a week.
I eat a lowish carb diet mostly consisting of vegetables and olive oil with a moderate portion of meat (usually cooked in such a way to minimize AGE). I eat some fruit and eat very very little processed carbs.
For carbs I eat some oatmeal around my exercise (before and after). Also, I'm diagnosed with very mild sleep apnea, but i've known about that for 12 years.

Supplements
1) 4 grams of vitamin C
2) 2000 IU of vitamin D
3) 400mg of magnesium citrate
4) 2 caps of a 4 a day multi (Source Naturals life force no iron)
5) 500mg of green tea extract
6) 500mg pomp40 extract
7) 3G of beta-alanine
8) 500mg benfotiamine
9) 150mg of 99% resveratrol 2x a day
10) Vitamin K2 (Mk-7)
11) 500mg of ALCAR

After noticing blood pressure problems I've done the following:
1) Added supplemental potassium in the form of salt substitute (potassium chloride)
2) Garlic pills (2 with each meal)
3) 4 stocks of celery a day
4) 4 tablespoons of tomato paste mixed with olive oil
5) Tried 4 tablespoons of unsweetened cocoa powder a day for two weeks with no luck (currently dropped to eliminate all stimulants)
6) Upped Magnesium to 800mg
7) Added 50mg of ubilquinol (CO-Q10)
7) Practicing slow breathing and generally trying to remain calm
8) Completely eliminated caffeine.
9) Drinking herbal tea with hibiscus
10) Have tried apple cider vinegar for two weeks but have stopped because i'm worried about my tooth enamel.

I wish I would have consistently been checking my blood pressure consistently so I would know what if anything is causing it to change. :(
Around the holidays i'm going to completely eliminate all supplements and see if something i'm taking is causing my high blood pressure. To be honest, the thread about
resveratrol and high blood pressure has me concerned it is the resveratrol. That would be very unfortunate because it is giving me amazing endurance gains and eliminated the
inflammation I've had in my midback.

Edited by health_nutty, 09 December 2009 - 09:42 PM.

[shaggy]

Can't see much wrong with your supplementation...maybe try dropping the green tea extract?

[kismet]

Apparently EGCG (and caffeine, additionally) may increase BP. http://www.ergo-log.com/egcgcaf.html

Not by 10mm Hg, though. 

Edited by kismet, 09 December 2009 - 10:38 PM.

[health_nutty]

Apparently EGCG (and caffeine, additionally) may increase BP. http://www.ergo-log.com/egcgcaf.html

Not by 10mm Hg, though. 

That is one of the many reasons I cut out the caffeine (the extract is decaf). The green tea extract has 250mg of EGCG. Could the dosage be too much?

[ajnast4r]

whats your calcium intake like? after a few months of not eating dairy, barely getting any calcium, my bp skyrocketed... supplemental calcium dropped it down very quickly.

drop the ALCAR and green tea for now as well

Edited by ajnast4r, 10 December 2009 - 01:28 AM.

[health_nutty]

whats your calcium intake like? after a few months of not eating dairy, barely getting any calcium, my bp skyrocketed... supplemental calcium dropped it down very quickly.

drop the ALCAR and green tea for now as well

That is a very good point! I dropped my Kale smoothies with cottage cheese in favor of steamed kale with "real food". I don't drink milk and my only dairy is a small 2% mozzerella stick every few days or so. How much calcium should I take?

I will drop the GTE and ALCAR.

Edited by health_nutty, 10 December 2009 - 02:29 AM.

[david ellis]

Health Nutty, I read the first post, you covered a lot, but you didn't say whether you gained any weight?

[health_nutty]

Health Nutty, I read the first post, you covered a lot, but you didn't say whether you gained any weight?

Good point. I've lost weight over that time (5-10 pounds) which bring my blood pressure down. I have a really good feeling that it could be the calcium thing.

Ajna, how long did it take from taking calcium supplements to your blood pressure normalizing.

Edited by health_nutty, 10 December 2009 - 03:45 AM.

[ajnast4r]

Health Nutty, I read the first post, you covered a lot, but you didn't say whether you gained any weight?

Good point. I've lost weight over that time (5-10 pounds) which bring my blood pressure down. I have a really good feeling that it could be the calcium thing.

Ajna, how long did it take from taking calcium supplements to your blood pressure normalizing.

days... i had mild heart palpitations for a while and calcium stopped those almost immediately as well. high magnesium + low calcium is bad... i try to keep a 2:1 cal:mag or so ratio

you could try a good citrate or glycinate (nothing else in it), 500mg 3x daily for a week or two

Edited by ajnast4r, 10 December 2009 - 05:26 AM.

[sentrysnipe]

how about a short trip to the PCP for a urine sample of VMA / catecholamines

[health_nutty]

Update:
I'm taking calcium citrate 500mg 3x per day and I've cut out the GTE. This morning my BP was 126/78. I'll keep monitoring it.

Another thing to note is a serving of cottage cheese only has 10% of the RDA of calcium while a cup of milk has 30%. I was assuming I was getting enough calcium previously with my smoothies when I was not.

Edited by health_nutty, 11 December 2009 - 05:05 PM.

[david ellis]

high magnesium + low calcium is bad... i try to keep a 2:1 cal:mag or so ratio

Ajnast4r, do you have a link to show that low calcium is linked to high blood pressure? I know you didn't specifically say that it was, but I am just wondering if the implication that high blood pressure can be caused by having a lower ratio that 2:1 is true. My NOW Cal/Mag is formulated 1:1.

I have been working a sudden high blood pressure problem since April. I am taking a huge Diovan HCT pill, max strength, 320 mg/12 mg. Expensive too.

I went looking for info on this issue and found this It says that high blood pressure is not regularly linked to levels of calcium and magnesium. However, it does say that a potassium deficiency can be a cause. Coincidentally, because of cramping issues I started last week supplementing 730mg/day of potassium. (using potassium iodide). I was shocked when my new doctor 's nurse measured my blood pressure at 126/74. I haven't supplemented long enough to say that the potassium lowered my blood pressure. And I have been taking lots of Carditone, an ayurveda compound, meant to normalize me, making BP medicine unnecessary.

But, I can say the government thinks that low potassium IS a cause of high blood pressure.

One unexpected benefit is the KCl is salty, making my tablespoons of powder supplements go down easier. I should put this stuff in my salt shaker.
I checked the Iherb comments on KCl and found that some think KCl is good for heart palpitations .

[ajnast4r]

...

i wouldnt use potassium iodide in such large amounts, unless im doing my math wrong you would be taking unbelievably high amount of iodine.

what is your sodium intake like? whats your potassium intake like? you sodium should be <1500mg/d, you could even drop that down lower if youre not horribly active. your potassium should be >5000mg/day.

KCL tastes exactly like salt and you can use it like salt in cooking... most stores sell nusalt or nosalt, which is usually KCl and K bitartrate. i have it and i use it just like salt on all my foods. just dont go to crazy and dont do more than ~2 grams at a time. Using K as a salt substitute is probably the easier way to get your K intake up to AI, and if you have hypertension you most def should be hitting the AI on K every single day.

many, many more on google.

http://www.jacn.org/...20/suppl_5/428S

Dietary calcium reduces blood pressure in large part via suppression of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D, thereby normalizing intracellular calcium. The practical relevance of this approach has been confirmed in the DASH (Dietary Approaches to Stop Hypertension) trial, which demonstrated that increasing low-fat dairy product and fruit and vegetable consumption exerted profound blood pressure-lowering effects.

http://jn.nutrition....117/10/1806.pdf

http://www.ext.colos...dnut/09318.html

Low calcium intake may increase risk of hypertension. A newer area of interest is the relationship between calcium and high blood pressure. People with a low calcium intake seem to be at increased risk for hypertension.

http://hyper.ahajour...bstract/6/3/322

With multivariate analysis while known correlates of blood pressure were simultaneously considered, an independent effect persisted between milk consumption and blood pressure. These results appeared to confirm an inverse association between calcium and hypertension

Edited by ajnast4r, 11 December 2009 - 10:39 PM.

[niner]

I have been working a sudden high blood pressure problem since April. I am taking a huge Diovan HCT pill, max strength, 320 mg/12 mg. Expensive too.

(using potassium iodide)

You mean potassium chloride, right? The Diovan HCT treatment might be cheaper if purchased as individual components. That would also let you play with doses. Diovan is still on patent IIRC, and isn't it one of those drugs that are priced the same per dose regardless of dosage? If so, you could split a larger pill, if there is one. Maybe you could use less diovan and more HCT...

[david ellis]

I have been working a sudden high blood pressure problem since April. I am taking a huge Diovan HCT pill, max strength, 320 mg/12 mg. Expensive too.

(using potassium iodide)

You mean potassium chloride, right? The Diovan HCT treatment might be cheaper if purchased as individual components. That would also let you play with doses. Diovan is still on patent IIRC, and isn't it one of those drugs that are priced the same per dose regardless of dosage? If so, you could split a larger pill, if there is one. Maybe you could use less diovan and more HCT...

Yes, I meant Potassium chloride, slipped a gear, I have a bottle of potassium iodine in case of a nuclear incident(???) . Maybe that is why it popped in like that. At least I used the right abbreviation for potassium chloride - KCl.


In April I was taking the max 320 mg Diovan plus two other BP medications. I was in really deep water then, not so deep now, because the 320 mg 1000 lb bomb wasn't really controlling the bp. Until this week, the BP was high 140s/low 150s over low 70s. Now, I may finally have some room to make changes. Who knows the ayurveda compound might be kicking in finally. If you have to take BP medicine, Diovan is good. I have been taking it 9 months and haven't yet discovered the price in side effects that I am paying.

[sdxl]

KCL tastes exactly like salt

No, it doesn't. To me pure KCl does taste different than NaCl.

[niner]

KCL tastes exactly like salt

No, it doesn't. To me pure KCl does taste different than NaCl.

Yeah, it's definitely different to me. KCl has a cooler, brighter flavor. I kind of like it. You can mix it with NaCl and play around with the proportions if you're so inclined. It's handy if you like salt but don't want too much sodium.

[niner]

In April I was taking the max 320 mg Diovan plus two other BP medications. I was in really deep water then, not so deep now, because the 320 mg 1000 lb bomb wasn't really controlling the bp. Until this week, the BP was high 140s/low 150s over low 70s. Now, I may finally have some room to make changes. Who knows the ayurveda compound might be kicking in finally. If you have to take BP medicine, Diovan is good. I have been taking it 9 months and haven't yet discovered the price in side effects that I am paying.

Diovan is a great drug. I took it for a couple years before I discovered ImmInst and got my diet sorted out. I have no need for it now, but while I used it I never noticed any side effects. I was using one of the low doses; 40 or 80mg, I don't remember. You can get it a lot cheaper at canadadrugs.com, if you have to pay for it. I've used them, they are reliable. The Canadians also have access to a generic version, though it's not tremendously cheaper than the Canadian price for the branded version.

How long has your bp been high? Is it possible that something you're taking is raising it? I had that happen once with a ginkgo formula, of all things.

[ajnast4r]

KCL tastes exactly like salt

No, it doesn't. To me pure KCl does taste different than NaCl.

the stuff i have is 'nosalt... its a mixture of cl and bitartrate. to me it tastes almost identical to salt unless i use a ton of it

[david ellis]

In April I was taking the max 320 mg Diovan plus two other BP medications. I was in really deep water then, not so deep now, because the 320 mg 1000 lb bomb wasn't really controlling the bp. Until this week, the BP was high 140s/low 150s over low 70s. Now, I may finally have some room to make changes. Who knows the ayurveda compound might be kicking in finally. If you have to take BP medicine, Diovan is good. I have been taking it 9 months and haven't yet discovered the price in side effects that I am paying.

Diovan is a great drug. I took it for a couple years before I discovered ImmInst and got my diet sorted out. I have no need for it now, but while I used it I never noticed any side effects. I was using one of the low doses; 40 or 80mg, I don't remember. You can get it a lot cheaper at canadadrugs.com, if you have to pay for it. I've used them, they are reliable. The Canadians also have access to a generic version, though it's not tremendously cheaper than the Canadian price for the branded version.

How long has your bp been high? Is it possible that something you're taking is raising it? I had that happen once with a ginkgo formula, of all things.

My goal too, is to improve my health so I can drop the Diovan. The US government link pointing to low potassium as a cause of high blood pressure is my best lead yet. I had a April thread in the regimen forum asking for help screening my regimen for suspect supplements. I was 20 lbs plus overweight in April. Plus my ALT enzymes were in the high 60's. I had a sonar scan done of my liver and they detected enlargement. I did the Eades "lose your middle diet" and dropped my ALT down to 32 in the middle of October and lost the 20 plus lbs. This week is the first movement toward lower blood pressure in a long time. Two health crises in a year, that is too many. Possibly caused by slipping up on my diet. I am puzzled by the possible fatty liver, fructose and corn syrup are the suspected culprits. It is hard for me to believe that I consumed enough to give me that problem. But the ALT enzymes had been high and creeping higher for over three years.

Sorry Health_nutty, for this thread hijack that I started.

[sentrysnipe]

KCl has a bitter taste.

I use Mrs. Dash but it's really nothing like sodium though it's a great seasoning condiment for your food if you want that taste in your mouth.

[health_nutty]

no problem about the hijack. Actually I think hijacks are good because it means my topic has got people thinking and having good discussions.

Update:
BP 113/70 this morning (average) (98/70 was the lowest and the highest was 124/80).

[livingguy]

I measured my blood pressure at home for the past 3 weeks and it has been consistently high. I haven't check my blood pressure in a while before the 3 weeks. For the past 7 years my blood pressure has always been normal at the doctors office 110-120/70-80 mm Hg. Now it has been as high as 145/87 with the lowest I've seen it at 114/67. The average being 130/80. The first reading in one sitting is always the highest and the rest fluctuate (I usually take 3 readings or so). I take I measure the first thing in the morning and at night after I put the kiddos to bed. Sometimes my blood pressure will be normal for 2 days in a row, then it shoots back up.

I do 4 days a week of cardio (2-3 days of ultimate frisbee and 1-3 days of jogging 6 miles). The ultimate frisbee is much more intense exercise. I do full body weightlifting routing two times a week.
I eat a lowish carb diet mostly consisting of vegetables and olive oil with a moderate portion of meat (usually cooked in such a way to minimize AGE). I eat some fruit and eat very very little processed carbs.
For carbs I eat some oatmeal around my exercise (before and after). Also, I'm diagnosed with very mild sleep apnea, but i've known about that for 12 years.

Supplements
1) 4 grams of vitamin C
2) 2000 IU of vitamin D
3) 400mg of magnesium citrate
4) 2 caps of a 4 a day multi (Source Naturals life force no iron)
5) 500mg of green tea extract
6) 500mg pomp40 extract
7) 3G of beta-alanine
8) 500mg benfotiamine
9) 150mg of 99% resveratrol 2x a day
10) Vitamin K2 (Mk-7)
11) 500mg of ALCAR

After noticing blood pressure problems I've done the following:
1) Added supplemental potassium in the form of salt substitute (potassium chloride)
2) Garlic pills (2 with each meal)
3) 4 stocks of celery a day
4) 4 tablespoons of tomato paste mixed with olive oil
5) Tried 4 tablespoons of unsweetened cocoa powder a day for two weeks with no luck (currently dropped to eliminate all stimulants)
6) Upped Magnesium to 800mg
7) Added 50mg of ubilquinol (CO-Q10)
7) Practicing slow breathing and generally trying to remain calm
8) Completely eliminated caffeine.
9) Drinking herbal tea with hibiscus
10) Have tried apple cider vinegar for two weeks but have stopped because i'm worried about my tooth enamel.

I wish I would have consistently been checking my blood pressure consistently so I would know what if anything is causing it to change. :(
Around the holidays i'm going to completely eliminate all supplements and see if something i'm taking is causing my high blood pressure. To be honest, the thread about
resveratrol and high blood pressure has me concerned it is the resveratrol. That would be very unfortunate because it is giving me amazing endurance gains and eliminated the
inflammation I've had in my midback.

Eliminate ALCAR it definitely raises blood pressure in most. Resveratrol also does that to some, try stopping it for a month and you would know. Start fish oils about4000mg per day they help most people. Ubiqinol at 200 mg would be much more effective ofcourse divided during the day with meals. Also try stopping MK7 for a couple of weeks with few it can make a difference.

Cocoa extract with Pomegranate and Blue berry by lef taken on empty stomach will also make a small positive difference.

[health_nutty]

Eliminate ALCAR it definitely raises blood pressure in most. Resveratrol also does that to some, try stopping it for a month and you would know. Start fish oils about4000mg per day they help most people. Ubiqinol at 200 mg would be much more effective ofcourse divided during the day with meals. Also try stopping MK7 for a couple of weeks with few it can make a difference.

Cocoa extract with Pomegranate and Blue berry by lef taken on empty stomach will also make a small positive difference.

I forgot to include it in my supplement list but I do take 4g of fish oil a day as well (have for a long long time). I'm pretty certain I had/have a calcium deficiency. My BP has been going down steadily since taking 500mg of calcium citrate 3x a day.

[nameless]

Also try stopping MK7 for a couple of weeks with few it can make a difference.

Cocoa extract with Pomegranate and Blue berry by lef taken on empty stomach will also make a small positive difference.

I forgot to include it in my supplement list but I do take 4g of fish oil a day as well (have for a long long time). I'm pretty certain I had/have a calcium deficiency. My BP has been going down steadily since taking 500mg of calcium citrate 3x a day.

But did you cut out the green tea at the same time? Although I suppose if you add the green tea back later, and BP remains low, you'll know it was a calcium deficiency.

Livingguy:

Never heard of MK7 having any relation to BP before. You have any study links for that?

[health_nutty]

But did you cut out the green tea at the same time? Although I suppose if you add the green tea back later, and BP remains low, you'll know it was a calcium deficiency.

That is the plan. I'll make sure that my BP remains low for a couple of weeks then try reintroducing the GTE and see what that does. Blood pressure monitoring is definately something i'm going to do on a daily basis from now on.

The good news is I figured out I was not getting enough calcium. Whether it was the cause of my elevated BP or not, it was good to correct.

Edited by health_nutty, 13 December 2009 - 01:42 AM.

[health_nutty]

Update: Just measured and my BP is back up to 135/80 :( I did have several cups of unsweetened cocoa today. I wonder if the stimulants in the cocoa are causing a rise in my BP.

Edited by health_nutty, 13 December 2009 - 04:57 AM.

[niner]

Update: Just measured and my BP is back up to 135/80 :( I did have several cups of unsweetened cocoa today. I wonder if the stimulants in the cocoa are causing a rise in my BP.

This might be far-fetched, but oxalic acid in cocoa can tie up calcium. If skipping cocoa straightens things out, at least you know something's up with it, if not what exactly.

[ajnast4r]

cocoa can be fairly stimulating... i would avoid it until your bp is managed

[sentrysnipe]

I did the free Breathing Exercises thing last night, it sure did lower my heart rate!!!

http://csd.mcmaster....d-relaxation-cd

http://socialanxiety...t/breathing.htm


It sure does lower BP too (the lady with ~200 systolic down to 135, that's good right?):

Edited by sentrysnipe, 13 December 2009 - 06:56 AM.