284 replies to this topic

[anagram]

histidine
-it made me feel like I was dying on some weird level.
and it turns out I was right to some extent
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9007529

Why? Are you drinking large amounts of hydrogen peroxide?

sorry, I cannot tell if you are joking or getting this from experience.(I've seen a lot of weird stuff on longecity that I want to forget.)
I have not been drinking hydrogen peroxide, however I do have some in my body. l-histidine supplemented at 5% normal food intake caused these double strand breaks to happen, I'm not exaggerating that I felt like I was dying.
here are a lot more studies showing that this happens repeatedly.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1588927
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8566167
http://www.deepdyve....uble-v6QXqt8HpL
http://jn.nutrition..../6/936.full.pdf

interestingly supplementation on the rats caused a massive increase in liver size and increased cholesterol content(natural antioxidant) of the liver. I wish someone had posted this info before I bought l-histidine, I didn't know how completely bad it is for you, double strand breaks don't even happen in most forms of DNA damage, wtf!!!

there was a longecity member who said he got massive auditory hallucinations from taking several grams a day for awhile, I hope he is fine.

Edited by anagram, 19 January 2013 - 03:28 AM.

[ironfistx]

I've never heard of L-Histidine. What does it do?

[anagram]

its just an amino acid, it is used by the body to make histamine. I thought that because histamine promotes wakefulness and is used for carnosine, it would be good. wrong.

its in a lot of foods. apparently its just one of those amino acids like tryptophan, that you shouldn't put in your diet in high amounts.
I am currently trying to recuperate any damaged DNA by taking a lot of zinc(50mg) and folic acid and hoping for the best.

Edited by anagram, 19 January 2013 - 03:35 AM.

[mastercowboy]

Tongkat Ali caused severe anxiety like panic attack..Confirmed for second time too..No coincidence!

Worst experience from any substance ever!

Tongkat Ali caused severe anxiety like panic attack..Confirmed for second time too..No coincidence!

Worst experience from any substance ever!

[renfr]

Tongkat Ali caused severe anxiety like panic attack..Confirmed for second time too..No coincidence!

Worst experience from any substance ever!

Tongkat Ali caused severe anxiety like panic attack..Confirmed for second time too..No coincidence!

Worst experience from any substance ever!

Tough luck! Seems like I'm a non-responder to tongkat ali, I took up to 4 pills (300mg 1:200 extract) with no benefits or bad side effects. Or maybe were the effects too subtle for me to notice.


Worst supplements for me :
- myo-Inositol + anything that lowers blood sugar => causes an extremely bad reaction, tremors, adrenaline rush, etc... (tough Inositol alone is a very good vitamin!)
Also myo-Inositol alone causes me brutal muscle spasms, found out it was due to potassium/magnesium depletion.
- Caffeine => definetely not for me, even a can of coke is enough to cause insomnia and sudation. 100mg causes insomnia for 2 days, tremors and elevated heart rate for 3 days, polyuria, sudation and even benzos/beta blockers are innefective.
One day I took accidently 200mg of caffeine and went to the ER, I was starting to see a purple hue in my vision with an heart rate going berserk (arrhythmia), hyperventilation and central conditions. Never again!
- beer (not alcohol itself but alcohol as beer) : worst hangover of my life, vision seems weird (palinopsia and transparent dichotomy of my visual field), stomach ache and feeling unwell. this never happens when I take stronger alcohols

[mastercowboy]

You are very sensitive i think!

Caffeine and beer are vital

[niner]

histidine
-it made me feel like I was dying on some weird level.
and it turns out I was right to some extent
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9007529

Why? Are you drinking large amounts of hydrogen peroxide?

sorry, I cannot tell if you are joking or getting this from experience.(I've seen a lot of weird stuff on longecity that I want to forget.)
I have not been drinking hydrogen peroxide, however I do have some in my body. l-histidine supplemented at 5% normal food intake caused these double strand breaks to happen, I'm not exaggerating that I felt like I was dying.
here are a lot more studies showing that this happens repeatedly.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1588927
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8566167
http://www.deepdyve....uble-v6QXqt8HpL
http://jn.nutrition..../6/936.full.pdf

interestingly supplementation on the rats caused a massive increase in liver size and increased cholesterol content(natural antioxidant) of the liver. I wish someone had posted this info before I bought l-histidine, I didn't know how completely bad it is for you, double strand breaks don't even happen in most forms of DNA damage, wtf!!!

Three out of four of those links have the words "Hydrogen Peroxide" right in the title, for godsake! Do you even read the papers you post? Without the H2O2, you aren't likely to get any double strand breaks. Histidine ODs do appear to cause hypercholesterolemia in rodents.

You should stop taking that zinc and folate. Both are dangerous at high dosage. You'll end up giving yourself cancer from attempting to fix imaginary DNA damage. For the sake of your health, you ought to stay away from Pubmed and supplements.

[anagram]

I am pretty sure that each one of those articles says the same thing basically, l-histidine is awful for your DNA.
I am sorry, but how could you have missed that??

-titles of articles
The effect of hydrogen peroxide/L-histidine-induced DNA single- vs. double-strand breaks on poly(ADP-ribose)polymerase.

Effects of L-histidine on hydrogen peroxide-induced DNA damage and cytotoxicity in cultured mammalian cells


read the first 3 lines of this
http://jn.nutrition..../6/936.full.pdf
read the first two lines of this, and the introduction, try not to jump around to much while reading.
http://www.deepdyve....uble-v6QXqt8HpL

this study shows that there is a relationship between DNA repair and l-histidine sensitivity.
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2969780
although it isn't a study on rats, it shows that DNA will get "nicks" and "breaks" in the presence of l-histidine, proving that l-histidine will damage your DNA if your cells are exposed to even low levels of hydrogen peroxide which 100% of people on earth have in they're bodies all the time. Its part of the reason why longecity exists.

sorry if I was a bit rude, but I think that people shouldn't be supplementing with something that will cause double strand breaks when low levels of hydrogen peroxide are introduced, the effect appears to be a cytotoxic response so perhaps if you had a sensitivity to l-histidine, you might end up really hurting yourself, not to mention the liver enlargement seen at 5% added to a normal diet(no hydrogen peroxide.) so If you supplemented with about a half a gram, you really put yourself at risk.

Edited by anagram, 20 January 2013 - 04:30 AM.

[niner]

I am pretty sure that each one of those articles says the same thing basically, l-histidine is awful for your DNA.
I am sorry, but how could you have missed that??

Effects of L-histidine on hydrogen peroxide-induced DNA damage and cytotoxicity in cultured mammalian cells

The peroxide is causing the damage, not the histidine. Maybe a huge excess of histidine prevents repair of the damage. If 5% of your diet means 5% of 2000 Calories, then you're talking 25 grams of histidine, not half a gram. That would be 100 Calories. If it means 5% of your total protein, then it's 2.5 to 5 or more grams. Still not half a gram. I doubt very much that half a gram is going to hurt you. I don't recommend supplementing with single amino acids, but I think that you're spreading misinformation about the danger of small doses of histidine.

Edited by niner, 21 January 2013 - 03:53 AM.

[anagram]

but I thought that even though there is a lot of histidine in food stuffs, you don't absorb a lot because amino acids compete for absorption, so the amount you actual absorb day to day is in the milligram range. I supplemented a lot of free unbound l-histidine on an empty supplement so, I think that the absorption was complete.

Edited by anagram, 21 January 2013 - 05:05 AM.

[niner]

but I thought that even though there is a lot of histidine in food stuffs, you don't absorb a lot because amino acids compete for absorption, so the amount you actual absorb day to day is in the milligram range. I supplemented a lot of free unbound l-histidine on an empty supplement so, I think that the absorption was complete.

Why would you preferentially not absorb His over any other amino acid? You get all the his you need from a normal healthy diet. There is no need to supplement it. You ought to just eat right and quit taking pills before you do something harmful to yourself.

[anagram]

histidine is not well absorbed like other amino acids. It doesn't have as significant a role as lets say glutamic acid. I think the imidazole part of it also influences absorption.
If you are wondering why I was supplementing with its because of its antiglycation properties, use in carnosine synthesis(I was taking a lot of beta alanine) and enhancement of zinc absorption.

[niner]

histidine is not well absorbed like other amino acids. It doesn't have as significant a role as lets say glutamic acid. I think the imidazole part of it also influences absorption.
If you are wondering why I was supplementing with its because of its antiglycation properties, use in carnosine synthesis(I was taking a lot of beta alanine) and enhancement of zinc absorption.

Is there any evidence for the claim that histidine isn't absorbed well? Wouldn't evolution have gotten that right? As far as enhancement of zinc absorption, it might do the opposite, if you get enough histidine relative to zinc.

[anagram]

why would evolution make us have more histidine than we need?
I cannot find the lowest tolerable limit study, but if I recall we only absorb about 117mgs a day if you have a full diet, any more histidine and all the zinc would leave our body in a few days.

the reason why histidine enhances excretion of zinc is because it forms water soluble complex with it.
this complex is actually preferentially absorbed by cells instead of zinc chloride or some other zinc salts.
your body also only needs very little of the histidine zinc complex to fulfill its zinc requirement because it is basically the natural and best form of zinc you can get.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19782114
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15519738

interestingly, this complex has the opposite effects that histidine has on H2O2 induced cell damage, the zinc histidine complex will prevent caspase from causing hydrogen peroxide induced DNA damage while histidine on its own increases it.
zinc histidine complexes are also neuroprotective for this reason, preventing DNA damage.

As far as biological systems go, it seems pretty fair to me, to much of either chemical is bad, but in the right concentrations you get a benefit, though this benefit is quickly excreted. this seems a little like a survival strategy because the humans with the most balanced diet, get the reward of less DNA lesions and breakage, but I don't want to get to deep into theories, If it is a survival strategy then it would be a small addition to the number of mechanisms everybody's body tries to kill them.


carnosine, the dipeptide that has histidine has an increased antioxidant ability in the presence of zinc and copper.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10951099

all this sort of gives evidence that maybe it you want to supplement with zinc, perhaps a zinc histidine or carnosine zinc supplement would be the best, and if you want to supplement with histidine, make sure you have plenty of zinc because you risk damaging your DNA really fast. In general, people should supplement with zinc.

Edited by anagram, 21 January 2013 - 09:26 PM.

[kevinseven11]

Histidine is related to PE and schizophrenia. Should be a good mental stimulant.

[niner]

why would evolution make us have more histidine than we need?
I cannot find the lowest tolerable limit study, but if I recall we only absorb about 117mgs a day if you have a full diet, any more histidine and all the zinc would leave our body in a few days.

Evolution results in us getting the amount of histidine we need, not more. You claimed that supplementation was necessary because we didn't get enough from our diet. That's not true, and neither is your claim that any more than 117mg/day would cause all the zinc to "leave our body in a few days". Please stop posting things that aren't true.

[sunking101]

Well, here's a negative first post about all the supplements that bummed-out on me :-)

NAC - made me jittery, nauseous and tired.
Fish oil - makes me dog tired after 3 days on it
Garlic pills - make me dog tired after 3 days
Folinic acid - major palpitations
B12 - breathless after a week of supplementing. This breathlessness remains with me one month later :-/
B Complex - makes me DOG tired after 3 days
D3 - anything over 400iU gives me dreadful tinnitus
Ginkgo Biloba - makes me feel great but gives me horrific, suicidal tinnitus after a fortnight
Alfalfa - palpitations and fatigue after one pill
Lecithin - muffled hearing and fatigue after one pill
Gamma E - breathlessness and anxiety
Ascorbic Acid © - fatigue
Chelated magnesium - palpitations and fatigue but I'm ok with mag citrate
St John's Wort - dizziness and nausea
Taurine - anxiety

* I don't do very well with supplements and have wasted a fortune :-(

[anagram]

histidine is not well absorbed like other amino acids. It doesn't have as significant a role as lets say glutamic acid. I think the imidazole part of it also influences absorption.
If you are wondering why I was supplementing with its because of its antiglycation properties, use in carnosine synthesis(I was taking a lot of beta alanine) and enhancement of zinc absorption.

Is there any evidence for the claim that histidine isn't absorbed well? Wouldn't evolution have gotten that right? As far as enhancement of zinc absorption, it might do the opposite, if you get enough histidine relative to zinc.

amino acids naturally compete for absorption in the human body. you were saying that if histidine wasn't absorbed well than that means evolution got something wrong, because humans would be deficient in histidine.
I was confused because what I was saying that we get our normal requirement of histidine from food, it is poorly absorbed compared to other amino acids and the food's content of histidine, but we get proper amounts.
so I said "why would evolution make us have more histidine than we need?." as in, we already get enough, if evolution were to make it so we absorb histidine more, then we would get to much from food.

food may have a lot of histidine in it, which warrants your argument that it is a safe nutritional supplement, but the amount of histidine in food is not equal to the amount absorbed by humans and used by humans, taking an l-histidine supplement on an empty stomach where there is complete absorbtion is dangerous even though there might be the same amount of histidine in food.

take for instance zinc excretion caused by histidine supplementation, If we absorbed histidine from food as well as we do from supplements, then people eating normal food would experience zinc depletion like if they were supplementing.

Edited by anagram, 22 January 2013 - 12:26 AM.

[anagram]

Well, here's a negative first post about all the supplements that bummed-out on me :-)

NAC - made me jittery, nauseous and tired.
Fish oil - makes me dog tired after 3 days on it
Garlic pills - make me dog tired after 3 days
Folinic acid - major palpitations
B12 - breathless after a week of supplementing. This breathlessness remains with me one month later :-/
B Complex - makes me DOG tired after 3 days
D3 - anything over 400iU gives me dreadful tinnitus
Ginkgo Biloba - makes me feel great but gives me horrific, suicidal tinnitus after a fortnight
Alfalfa - palpitations and fatigue after one pill
Lecithin - muffled hearing and fatigue after one pill
Gamma E - breathlessness and anxiety
Ascorbic Acid © - fatigue
Chelated magnesium - palpitations and fatigue but I'm ok with mag citrate
St John's Wort - dizziness and nausea
Taurine - anxiety

* I don't do very well with supplements and have wasted a fortune :-(

"B12 - breathless after a week of supplementing. This breathlessness remains with me one month later :-/"

"This breathlessness remains with me one month later :-/"

"one month"

0_0 tell me you aren't THE TROLL

sorry If you aren't.

But if you are noticing such extreme changes in your body after taking supplements, then might I ask if you are doing caloric restriction?

Edited by anagram, 22 January 2013 - 12:36 AM.

[sunking101]

Why would I be a troll? :-/
There are plenty of supplements I am currently taking that serve me well but I thought this thread was about supplements which don't agree with us or cause us harm? I have ME, fibromyalgia and am hypothyroid. Many supplements mess with my sensitive and fragile body. I wish that wasn't the case but it is. In trying to heal ourselves we try lots of supplements, hence my list. As for the B12, well I'm still trying to get to the bottom of that. Whether it caused anxiety which is still with me I just don't know but whatever, my breathlessness started when I took B12. Breathlessness is a recognised symptom in some people and whether I am now anxiously 'monitoring' my breathing as a result I don't know. That is of course my preferred diagnosis but I remain unconvinced.

[anagram]

sorry, its just that this troll has recently been posting seemingly serious things and they turn out to be attempts at attention grabbing.
b-12 seems so innocuous, but it can do you in. And anxiety sucks completely to man, I know I've been there with supplements (modafinil aka bringer of heavy head rubbing).
I cured my anxiety/early death syndrome though with some chelation of iron(death element) with ip6 and zinc supplementation, helped clear up my system a lot. I recommend highly in case you haven't stocked up your vita cabinets with Ip6 yet.
iron's basically what everyone on longecity is trying to get rid of, in one way or another.
-peace

Edited by anagram, 22 January 2013 - 01:14 AM.

[niner]

Why would I be a troll? :-/
There are plenty of supplements I am currently taking that serve me well but I thought this thread was about supplements which don't agree with us or cause us harm? I have ME, fibromyalgia and am hypothyroid. Many supplements mess with my sensitive and fragile body. I wish that wasn't the case but it is. In trying to heal ourselves we try lots of supplements, hence my list. As for the B12, well I'm still trying to get to the bottom of that. Whether it caused anxiety which is still with me I just don't know but whatever, my breathlessness started when I took B12. Breathlessness is a recognised symptom in some people and whether I am now anxiously 'monitoring' my breathing as a result I don't know. That is of course my preferred diagnosis but I remain unconvinced.

Having ME, FM, and being hypothyroid changes the picture a lot. I was going to suggest that maybe you were allergic to some filler material that's common to multiple supplements. That's not unheard of. However, it sounds like maybe something else is going on. Sometimes anxiety manifests as a feeling of not getting enough air. I don't know if this is the sort of breathlessness you're talking about, or if it's something more metabolic, but it's a thought. How's your exercise tolerance? If you have a metabolic kind of hypoxia, I would think it would show up when you exercise.

We've been having a problem lately with a troll who posts anti-supplementation stories. Everyone's kind of on the lookout for that now.

[sunking101]

I have the breathlessness almost 24/7, even when sat down. The only things I was taking were a multivitamin, magnesium citrate, sea kelp, Jarrow Gamma E and methyl B12. It was about two weeks after starting the B12 and one week after introducing the gamma E that my breathlessness started. It was sudden, I just woke up with it one day and I am absolutely convinced that the B12 or gamma E is the culprit but I am leaning more towards the B12 as shortness of breath is a recognised side effect in some people or in toxic overload. Whether I am exercising (well walking) or sitting, I have the breathlessness but upon exertion it is more obvious.

[niner]

I have the breathlessness almost 24/7, even when sat down. The only things I was taking were a multivitamin, magnesium citrate, sea kelp, Jarrow Gamma E and methyl B12. It was about two weeks after starting the B12 and one week after introducing the gamma E that my breathlessness started. It was sudden, I just woke up with it one day and I am absolutely convinced that the B12 or gamma E is the culprit but I am leaning more towards the B12 as shortness of breath is a recognised side effect in some people or in toxic overload. Whether I am exercising (well walking) or sitting, I have the breathlessness but upon exertion it is more obvious.

You stopped the B12 and E, right? You probably aren't in a toxic overload situation now, but there's no telling what might have happened. Is your ability to exercise hampered by this condition? For example, can you climb a flight of stairs at a reasonable pace? If you can climb stairs like before this all started, then it's probably an anxiety effect. If not, then you ought to see a doctor and get a more complete diagnosis.

[sunking101]

Sometimes I feel that it's anxiety but at other times I'm not quite so sure. I can still do the things I used to do, I don't collapse in a heap but I do feel very breathless. It's like overnight I instantly gained 56lbs of weight and had the lungs of a heavy smoker. When seated I am aware of my breathing now and I guess an anxiety thing could come into play. I frequently take deep breaths and feel that I'm not getting quite enough oxygen into my system. At no time am I gasping and in need of breathing apparatus, it is more subtle than that. When I climb stairs however, I can feel quite gaspy at the top and it takes several minutes for me to calm down.

I have visited the Dr and am booked in for lung pulmonetry tests later this week. If that is clear then other than, gulp, heart failure it should point towards my methylation cycle being out of whack or plain old anxiety. I have never had breathing-related or 24/7 anxiety before in all my 41 years so I am obviously a little reluctant to think it is that until all other possibilities are ruled out.

[niner]

Sometimes I feel that it's anxiety but at other times I'm not quite so sure. I can still do the things I used to do, I don't collapse in a heap but I do feel very breathless. It's like overnight I instantly gained 56lbs of weight and had the lungs of a heavy smoker. When seated I am aware of my breathing now and I guess an anxiety thing could come into play. I frequently take deep breaths and feel that I'm not getting quite enough oxygen into my system. At no time am I gasping and in need of breathing apparatus, it is more subtle than that. When I climb stairs however, I can feel quite gaspy at the top and it takes several minutes for me to calm down.

I have visited the Dr and am booked in for lung pulmonetry tests later this week. If that is clear then other than, gulp, heart failure it should point towards my methylation cycle being out of whack or plain old anxiety. I have never had breathing-related or 24/7 anxiety before in all my 41 years so I am obviously a little reluctant to think it is that until all other possibilities are ruled out.

I'm familiar with the anxiety-induced feeling of not getting enough oxygen. It's exactly as you describe it. One way to diagnose it would be to take a few mg of valium or whatever is your benzodiazepine of choice. I bet the breathless feeling will melt away. It's good that you're getting checked out- that alone will probably make you feel better, just knowing that you aren't on death's doorstep.

[anagram]

perhaps you had a b-12 deficiency, and the introduction of b-12 increased your metabolic rate. your blood carbon dioxide level rose and normally you would just breath more, however you are not accustom to more breathing, so it has given you anxiety.
I used to try to focus on my breathing constantly. now I realize that there are moments where I guess my body doesn't need oxygen as much, and I breath much much less than when I am doing exercises or moving around. unless you have a problem with the part of your brain that tells your body to breath, one of the most vital functions of the brain, I wouldn't worry to much. just try to relax, If your doctor discovered something about your lungs that needed to be treated soon because of the risk of death by suffocation, he would call you immediately.

Edited by anagram, 22 January 2013 - 03:34 AM.

[anagram]

btw, niner

do you know of a good source of TEMPOL, ntBHA, n-methylhydroxylamine, or any spin traps?

[niner]

do you know of a good source of TEMPOL, ntBHA, n-methylhydroxylamine, or any spin traps?

I wouldn't touch those with a ten foot pole. Use c60-oo instead.

[anagram]

why not?
they appear really good and effective at treating and boasting mitochondrial function.
and I think c60 might act in the same way.

Edited by anagram, 22 January 2013 - 03:56 AM.