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Ten months of research condensed - A total newbies guide to nootropics


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#271 matthewebbert

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:31 PM

There are lots of website presnets from were you can order it.. search best nootropics in google you will get lots of resutls..

#272 sylvan-k

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:32 AM

This may be a silly question, but seeing that most of these "supplements" can be purchased in bulk form, can I measure out the doses and blend them into my morning smoothie and still get optimal results or does the digestion process inhibit absorption? I have been reading about these wonder "supplements" for many years, but felt some of the online articles were on the shady side, until recently. I am prescribed NuVigil, however, a change in insurance coverage makes most of the $450 a month cost fall on me. So, I hoard and suffer for emergencies. Also, I am looking for something to reduce the anxiety and increase the attention span of my 7 year old stepson. He is super intelligent, but gets so anxious and has the attention span of a gnat sometimes. The attention is probably age related.. but the anxiety is disturbing. Going back to the original train of thought, is there a problem with adding the powders to my shake or can certain components to the recipe cause a problem? i.e. Grapefruit adds to the potency of xanax..

thanks



Most of these supplements are taken orally. It is hard to say what kind of reaction might be brewing in the blender though. It does all end up in the tum-tum however, so unless someone has some kind of food-intereference knowledge, I would see throwing it in the smoothy the same as regular dosing.

Also, yea, don't dose the kid. :)

One thing to try which would be relatively harmless is looking into omega 3 supplements. I've read they show promise for ADD. And our diets suck, so he probably needs some healthy fats.

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#273 UKADHDs

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 06:53 PM

one tiny thing to bear in mind is that - IMO - bacopa + citicholine + salbutiamine powders, washing down piracetam & green tea & fish capsules, is a lot to deal with in the morning, tastes awful and subsequently makes me feel a little light stomached. If you're putting them into a really tasty smoothie that would help, or worth looking at capsules for the lot.

@phaseshift - not looking to be a dick here, but do a bit of searching before you post. There's tons of info on here, which sometimes means the answers to complex questions can be subjective, based on multiple variables and contradicted across numbers of posts, but simple questions like the ones you're asking have whole threads/aresa set up for them.
Nonetheless: smart powders is the most regularly recommended US source. I've bought from them once, arrived quickly, competitive price, no hassle.

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#274 UKADHDs

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 06:58 PM

mini report of core question from a previous post of mine:

does anyone recommend or advise against taking some of the 'noob stack' split across the day? I find the effects wear off after about 4.5 hours, i.e. the reported half life of piracetam, hence I was thinking of taking 2400mg pira in the morning with ~450mg citicholine, plus the rest (sulbutiamine, bacopa, fish oil, green team protein, blah blah), then re-taking the pira & choline after the first dose wears off.
Any pros/cons to this idea?
Thanks

#275 alwaysthinking

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 09:56 PM

what do people think about the stack 20mg noopept + 100mg Citicoline + 50mg Caffeine, saw it on a uk website???? mainly for studying

#276 Strelok

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 10:19 PM

what do people think about the stack 20mg noopept + 100mg Citicoline + 50mg Caffeine, saw it on a uk website???? mainly for studying


That sounds fine; citicoline has a long half life so daily dosage may not be required, and that 20mg of noopept should be divided into two separate 10mg doses.

Edited by Strelok, 31 March 2013 - 10:19 PM.


#277 Lucifersam

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 03:57 PM

I took this stack plus or minus a few things and came away with the same impressions the OP had. This amount of stuff put my body into a prolonged hypomanic state which of course also meant that sleep quality was suffering. Eventually it's a lot of undue stress on your systems and the glowing supercharged feeling started to fade into anxiety. Plus starting like 8 supplements at once is a ridiculous notion; even the smartest neuroscientist can't predict how everything is going to interact in a system as complex as the brain.

#278 Proof

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 02:15 PM

Can you suggest an alternative to using Lions Mane, I am finding it pretty expensive and difficult to obtain?

#279 UKADHDs

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 03:42 PM

@Proof - may not be your thing, but if you've got the time and the garden space and the green fingers, look into growing it, which'll make it very cheap.

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#280 UKADHDs

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 03:46 PM

re: @alwaysthinking / @strelok's conversation: if there a noted benefit of noopept or other newer strains compared to piracetam? I'm on 3g piracetam, ~1g citicholine, ~1g sulbutiamine, 1g bacopa in the morning, and I'm not really noticing any effect. I did feel something of a boost when I started, better concentration, less distracted, but not any more.
So I'm tempted to look at modafinil but since I have all these pricey drugs barely used, I'm keen to tweak things first to try to get a benefit before I ditch the lot...

#281 Proof

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 08:28 AM

@UKADHDs - I was considering growing my own but I'm more into the convenience of capsules at the moment, have you grown it yourself?

#282 Psionic

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 12:06 PM

@UKADHDs - I was considering growing my own but I'm more into the convenience of capsules at the moment, have you grown it yourself?


Get Lions Mane in powder form - its relatively cheap and you can use it for cooking (soups, sauces), it has been observed to have greated effect when cooked. Daily dose is 1-5g mainly because higher dosages causes some fuzzy mind states - random memories or events from past can appear and its hard to place them in correct timeline. Just try it yourself :)

#283 blueinfinity

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 05:56 AM

@UKADHDs - I was considering growing my own but I'm more into the convenience of capsules at the moment, have you grown it yourself?


Get Lions Mane in powder form - its relatively cheap and you can use it for cooking (soups, sauces), it has been observed to have greated effect when cooked. Daily dose is 1-5g mainly because higher dosages causes some fuzzy mind states - random memories or events from past can appear and its hard to place them in correct timeline. Just try it yourself :)


whats the best source for quality and good price of lions mane?

#284 Psionic

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 09:07 AM

@UKADHDs - I was considering growing my own but I'm more into the convenience of capsules at the moment, have you grown it yourself?


Get Lions Mane in powder form - its relatively cheap and you can use it for cooking (soups, sauces), it has been observed to have greated effect when cooked. Daily dose is 1-5g mainly because higher dosages causes some fuzzy mind states - random memories or events from past can appear and its hard to place them in correct timeline. Just try it yourself :)


whats the best source for quality and good price of lions mane?


just dont buy overpriced stuff. In my country I can buy 100g of dried Hericium powder for about $10 from specialized shroom shop.
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#285 8bitmore

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 09:20 AM

@UKADHDs - I was considering growing my own but I'm more into the convenience of capsules at the moment, have you grown it yourself?


Get Lions Mane in powder form - its relatively cheap and you can use it for cooking (soups, sauces), it has been observed to have greated effect when cooked. Daily dose is 1-5g mainly because higher dosages causes some fuzzy mind states - random memories or events from past can appear and its hard to place them in correct timeline. Just try it yourself :)


whats the best source for quality and good price of lions mane?


just dont buy overpriced stuff. In my country I can buy 100g of dried Hericium powder for about $10 from specialized shroom shop.


So, can we hear a bit more about what your country is and where we locate the shroom shops? :)

#286 Psionic

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 11:33 AM

@UKADHDs - I was considering growing my own but I'm more into the convenience of capsules at the moment, have you grown it yourself?


Get Lions Mane in powder form - its relatively cheap and you can use it for cooking (soups, sauces), it has been observed to have greated effect when cooked. Daily dose is 1-5g mainly because higher dosages causes some fuzzy mind states - random memories or events from past can appear and its hard to place them in correct timeline. Just try it yourself :)


whats the best source for quality and good price of lions mane?


just dont buy overpriced stuff. In my country I can buy 100g of dried Hericium powder for about $10 from specialized shroom shop.


So, can we hear a bit more about what your country is and where we locate the shroom shops? :)


lol, the place of origin of the Hericium from the shop is China and they probably dont ship abroad so unless you are in central EU you should try some Chinese grocery shops or use http://google.com (or ending the postfix with your local country) and try the use you head for search words.. For someone who still find it hard to grasp, you can use a little hint here

EDIT: try to look for places where shrooms growing kits are offered, it should bring you closer to H. Erinaceus source :)

Edited by Psionic, 14 May 2013 - 12:05 PM.

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#287 Strelok

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 09:32 PM

I ordered some Lion's Mane from here: http://www.mushroomh...4q0lmbneu5klcm1

I've been happy with it so far, but I'm not sure how much they'd charge to ship overseas.

#288 blueinfinity

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 04:13 AM

@UKADHDs - I was considering growing my own but I'm more into the convenience of capsules at the moment, have you grown it yourself?


Get Lions Mane in powder form - its relatively cheap and you can use it for cooking (soups, sauces), it has been observed to have greated effect when cooked. Daily dose is 1-5g mainly because higher dosages causes some fuzzy mind states - random memories or events from past can appear and its hard to place them in correct timeline. Just try it yourself :)


whats the best source for quality and good price of lions mane?


just dont buy overpriced stuff. In my country I can buy 100g of dried Hericium powder for about $10 from specialized shroom shop.


So, can we hear a bit more about what your country is and where we locate the shroom shops? :)


lol, the place of origin of the Hericium from the shop is China and they probably dont ship abroad so unless you are in central EU you should try some Chinese grocery shops or use http://google.com (or ending the postfix with your local country) and try the use you head for search words.. For someone who still find it hard to grasp, you can use a little hint here

EDIT: try to look for places where shrooms growing kits are offered, it should bring you closer to H. Erinaceus source :)


Is it hard to grow your own lions mane? are there any special considerations needed, I never grew mushrooms before, but Ive brewed beer before and have done other procedural things but nothing like mushroom growing exactly

also whats teh best way to consume, powder or fruit picked live and eaten raw or cooked?

#289 Psionic

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 07:50 AM

...

Is it hard to grow your own lions mane? are there any special considerations needed, I never grew mushrooms before, but Ive brewed beer before and have done other procedural things but nothing like mushroom growing exactly

also whats teh best way to consume, powder or fruit picked live and eaten raw or cooked?


Probably very similar procedure to other shrooms like maitake, shitake and reishi. Its even sold with all spores in the medium so you just open the foliage on the medium and can immediatelly grow. The medium can be used up to three rounds of growing but there will be probably ways how to grow in repeated cycles without limitation. Just search for it, it looks very easy: growing kit manual

I would also recommend to read the thread carefully, it has been mentioned numerous times that lions mane has best effects when cooked (at least for the powdered form).
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#290 soulfiremage

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 08:01 AM

Sylvan-k

Unless you have a VERY excellent, up to date and clever neuro specialist who specifically understand kid's developing brains prescribe stuff - honestly just don't give him any nootropic stuff. The only exception of course are standard nutrients like the fish oils and routine healthy stuff you get in a decent diet.

IMHO I don't count many DSM-IV non neuro shrinks to be as qualified to prescribe for developing brains - mainly because with modern neuro stuff, you can get qEEG and all kinds of other quantitive measurements that can be used to figure out the most effective treatments. I restate IMHO as a) I don't any qualifications b)there might be a truly excellent "shrink" or two on here who IS well qualified to prescribe :). </arse covering>

Bottom line is a developing brain should be pharmacologically left a virgin unless there is absolute certainty that a pathology exists - in this matter opinion alone isn't proof. I happily dose myself with all kinds of things and zap myself using TDCS but my brother couldn't pay me enough to recommend and dose his kids or indeed zap them. Too many unknowns and adults mood/behaviour traits really do emerge as an aggregation of the influences that happened in child hood - at least that's where many of the important ones began even though they evolve as we get older and wiser.

A drug at this age can have an unprecedented leverage over what happens to the system of their brain as they get older.
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#291 soulfiremage

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 08:02 AM

Forum hiccup - deleted duplicate!

Edited by soulfiremage, 15 May 2013 - 08:59 AM.


#292 Exception

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 03:23 PM

Where's a reliable source of choline?
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#293 darksanity

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 07:59 AM

I've also tried a LOT of nootropics also (since I'm 17 (2006) and I'm almost 24 now lol). I agree with the Piracetam + cdp-choline + pyritinol its like a perfect newbie basic nootropic stack. If you're really poor just get some bulk piracetam and lecithin perhaps.

Add in some hydergine and perhaps huperzine-A if you have extra money lol. If you're willing to spend even more money and take small risks you can try tianeptine which I liked a lot of was definitely a cognitive-enhancer in my case.

I've tried Aniracetam too it's decent but probably not worth the $$ (unless you have lots of spare money :mellow:). Bulk piracetam is CHEAP so totally worth it.

I have some oxiracetam and pramiracetam but havent really tried them yet (too lazy to cap it, and all racetams I've tried taste horrible)

What do you guys do when people (new girlfriend, friends, family, etc.) see you taking a bunch of nootropics like 1-2g of piracetam and they give you the WTF look? Most people think its suspicious or something (bulk nootropics look like drugs). Everytime it happened for me I wasn't sure how to explain it. :|? :-D

Edited by darksanity, 16 May 2013 - 08:23 AM.


#294 blueinfinity

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 05:52 PM

I've also tried a LOT of nootropics also (since I'm 17 (2006) and I'm almost 24 now lol). I agree with the Piracetam + cdp-choline + pyritinol its like a perfect newbie basic nootropic stack. If you're really poor just get some bulk piracetam and lecithin perhaps.

Add in some hydergine and perhaps huperzine-A if you have extra money lol. If you're willing to spend even more money and take small risks you can try tianeptine which I liked a lot of was definitely a cognitive-enhancer in my case.

I've tried Aniracetam too it's decent but probably not worth the $$ (unless you have lots of spare money :mellow:). Bulk piracetam is CHEAP so totally worth it.

I have some oxiracetam and pramiracetam but havent really tried them yet (too lazy to cap it, and all racetams I've tried taste horrible)

What do you guys do when people (new girlfriend, friends, family, etc.) see you taking a bunch of nootropics like 1-2g of piracetam and they give you the WTF look? Most people think its suspicious or something (bulk nootropics look like drugs). Everytime it happened for me I wasn't sure how to explain it. :|? :-D


Thank you for your detailed explanation!

I've tried vinpocetine and notice a "head rush" blood flowing to the brain but nothing I could effectively notice, perhaps maybe a slight and very temporary increase in senses and memory but only seems to have effect the first time and maybe just in my head.

Ive heard the piracetam + CDP-citicholine/alpha GPC but not really much about pyritinol, What is the reason for adding that to the stack, does racetams deplete more than just choline, also b6?

havent done much research on hydergine but the side effects and fibrosis concerns seem like they arent worth the benefits, unless there is something else out there.

i also am interest in oxiracetam, Ive heard lotsof good/positive things, also considering noopept (but it doesnt have"racetam" at the end, is it really considered a non-racetam?)

do you have experience with sulbutiamine?

#295 darksanity

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 02:15 AM

I've tried vinpocetine and notice a "head rush" blood flowing to the brain but nothing I could effectively notice, perhaps maybe a slight and very temporary increase in senses and memory but only seems to have effect the first time and maybe just in my head.

Yeah I'm not a big fan of vinpocetine, tends to cause orthostatic hypotension.

Ive heard the piracetam + CDP-citicholine/alpha GPC but not really much about pyritinol, What is the reason for adding that to the stack, does racetams deplete more than just choline, also b6?

I find Alpha-GPC too much an over-kill in terms of choline supplementation for most ppl. Too much choline is not good (I believe reading it can cause an acetylcholine-dopamine imbalance, but don't take my word for that). CDP-Choline is just fine (and cheaper), and you probably shouldn't use it daily. Pyritinol is a stand-alone nootropic completely unrelated to 'racetams. I find it helped with comprehension in general when studying; I'm able to grasp concepts much faster.

I don't think piracetam 'depletes' anything else no... Even choline is probably not depleted significantly unless you're taking 3g+ every day for weeks. I personally never really took any nootropic everyday for a very extended period. Too much cholinergic nootropics taken daily will eventually cause depression symptoms. IME it's better to take them on a 'as needed' basis.

havent done much research on hydergine but the side effects and fibrosis concerns seem like they arent worth the benefits, unless there is something else out there.

Well of course if you take 4.5mg+ every day for an extended period you will get side-effects. Hydergine is fine imo to take daily but 1-2 mg is enough unless you're practically senile. I personally never had any noticeable side-effects from it.

Anyway I think nootropics really shine when one is not at full-potential for various reasons (lack of sleep, shitty diet, lack of exercice, after hours of studying, days following drug abuse lol, etc.). On the other hand if one is top-shape, super-healthy, never gets drunk, never uses drugs, relatively young, and have pretty good cognitive abilities naturally, then nootropics are unlikely to do much.

Edited by darksanity, 17 May 2013 - 02:32 AM.


#296 blueinfinity

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 05:27 AM

I find Alpha-GPC too much an over-kill in terms of choline supplementation for most ppl. Too much choline is not good (I believe reading it can cause an acetylcholine-dopamine imbalance, but don't take my word for that). CDP-Choline is just fine (and cheaper), and you probably shouldn't use it daily. Pyritinol is a stand-alone nootropic completely unrelated to 'racetams. I find it helped with comprehension in general when studying; I'm able to grasp concepts much faster.


Thanks for the explanation, that clears some things up and confirms my feelings i was getting from reading others experiences. As far as pyritinol goes, havent tried but i googled and there are lots of people talking about the benefits but not too much about any side effects, have you experienced or heard of any negative effects from this? and is it a form of b6 or completely different and changed because it is molecularly two b6 side by side?

I don't think piracetam 'depletes' anything else no... Even choline is probably not depleted significantly unless you're taking 3g+ every day for weeks. I personally never really took any nootropic everyday for a very extended period. Too much cholinergic nootropics taken daily will eventually cause depression symptoms. IME it's better to take them on a 'as needed' basis.


I've heard both schools of thought that some people taking racetams do for 1-3 months and say they have lasting effects even after stopping similar to a "re-wire", but then heard lots of stories of people saying they get depression or negative effects after about 2 weeks as you described. I wonder if i were to take it on and off if i still got the last benefits from a "re-wire" situation.

Well of course if you take 4.5mg+ every day for an extended period you will get side-effects. Hydergine is fine imo to take daily but 1-2 mg is enough unless you're practically senile. I personally never had any noticeable side-effects from it.

What are the effects that you got from the hydergine personally?

Anyway I think nootropics really shine when one is not at full-potential for various reasons (lack of sleep, shitty diet, lack of exercice, after hours of studying, days following drug abuse lol, etc.). On the other hand if one is top-shape, super-healthy, never gets drunk, never uses drugs, relatively young, and have pretty good cognitive abilities naturally, then nootropics are unlikely to do much.


This is interesting! I have not dived into any of the racetams yet and was heavily considering the uridine stack. in fact i was just about to order right now, but reading this makes me wonder. I definitely did abuse some drugs in the past, and alcohol ALOT so i would have some to gain.

Just interesting notion that racetams or other nootropics were meant to optimize, when i was interested in them for their abilities to "supercharge" and or improve beyond nature/genetics but than again i guess that is somewhat semantical as no one lives in a perfect environment, with perfect nutrition, and perfect genes for their whole lives

#297 brainfog1

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 09:29 PM

Has anyone seen truBrain/ got a review for me? It looks like it includes almost everything the top poster recommended

#298 chagu

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 11:45 AM

hey i want to get my hands on this ..so where is the best place to buy it..i'm from srilanka.

#299 Patrick Sylvester

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 06:45 AM

Has anyone seen truBrain/ got a review for me? It looks like it includes almost everything the top poster recommended


looks rather pedestrian, among the ranks of the epiphany supplements. actually since they send a "box" of supplements instead of capping everything into one convenient capsule (ala epiphany) or even diluting everything into a liquid "juice-box" (ala study-juice) its product-payoff to customer satisfaction is less. very much significantly less after looking at the prices and with the strange "subscription" purchase format coupled with the long roster of high-priced-student-loan degrees it seems more likely that there is a large chasm between the bulk pricing and the retail price that goes to the funding of those aforementioned loans. sounds like quite the fee they charge for simply weighing your daily recommended dosage.
besides isn't piracetam a research chem in the states, not "for use by man to supplement the diet by increasing the total dietary intake" and "excluded from the definition of a 'dietary supplement'?"

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#300 guyonabuffalo

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 04:48 PM

re: @alwaysthinking / @strelok's conversation: if there a noted benefit of noopept or other newer strains compared to piracetam? I'm on 3g piracetam, ~1g citicholine, ~1g sulbutiamine, 1g bacopa in the morning, and I'm not really noticing any effect. I did feel something of a boost when I started, better concentration, less distracted, but not any more.
So I'm tempted to look at modafinil but since I have all these pricey drugs barely used, I'm keen to tweak things first to try to get a benefit before I ditch the lot...


It sounds like the piracetam may have pooped out on you. I've had the same thing happen to me. I first started my stack and everything was great, then about two weeks later, the effects just weren't there anymore. I started doing some research and there are others out there that have had the same problem. I would try lowering your dosage, check out this thread:
http://www.longecity...am-micro-doses/

I decided to give it a shot after reading some contributors experiences. I started out using 2.4g of piracetam at first, but I have since reduced my intake by 1/4 to 600mg. Actually, I've reduced all the other racetams I take by 1/4 (pramiracetam and oxiracetam). I'm going on week 2 and I have to say that it has made a positive difference. Could it be a placebo effect? Possibly, but I don't think so. Yesterday I tried taking 1.6g of piracetam with my stack, instead of the lower dosage of 600mg as a test, just to see what would happen. Sure enough, I got the same feeling of of tiredness and ineffectiveness of what I had before I lowered my dosage.
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