60 replies to this topic

[viltro]

What brand are you taking?

Healthspan, in Jersey looks like their January Sale has finished, I'm not sure if it's worth it at the current price.

[Declmem]

What brand are you taking?

Healthspan, in Jersey looks like their January Sale has finished, I'm not sure if it's worth it at the current price.

So what you take is a bit more than just PS?

[viltro]

What brand are you taking?

Healthspan, in Jersey looks like their January Sale has finished, I'm not sure if it's worth it at the current price.

So what you take is a bit more than just PS?

Yes. I'd never given it any consideration, just assumed it was a consequence of extracting PS from soya and/or to bulk up the pill. I wouldn't expect omega-3 to matter much since I get plenty anway.

Now I've looked closer it does say it contains lecithin. Could 250mg of lecithin be having the memory effects I noted? If so I might swap to a pure lecithin supplement..

(Apologies to OP for hijacking)

Edited by viltro, 28 January 2010 - 10:01 PM.

[Declmem]

What brand are you taking?

Healthspan, in Jersey looks like their January Sale has finished, I'm not sure if it's worth it at the current price.

So what you take is a bit more than just PS?

Yes. I'd never given it any consideration, just assumed it was a consequence of extracting PS from soya and/or to bulk up the pill. I wouldn't expect omega-3 to matter much since I get plenty anway.

Now I've looked closer it does say it contains lecithin. Could 250mg of lecithin be having the memory effects I noted? If so I might swap to a pure lecithin supplement..

(Apologies to OP for hijacking)

Could be. I've never gotten anything from PS personally, so I'd say it's worth finding out. You could probably lower your costs significantly if you found out the specific ingredient (or combo) that is giving you the effects you want.

[dilenja]

Hi! I suggest you to use some techniques for memory improvement instead of taking nootropics.
....
More techniques you can find here

Thanks for the tips, but for what I'm studying and at it's volume, those type tricks don't help as much. ex What links Adam Muller and Alexander Hamilton? What does it mean to have equal marginal rates of transformation, and what does it have to do with price-taking behavior? What is the significance of Baker v Carr?

.... I take my tablet(s) at night, and although I can not say conclusively if memory has been positively effected, I am sufficiently convinced such that I would like to continue with this product for at least 12 weeks to find out.

In terms of other supplements which I have had success with; For me personally, I've found that Centrophenoxine and Alpha-GPC are far more effective than CDP Choline, especially for exams.....

I'm not really interested in experimenting with Bacopa right now, since it may or may not be effective over time, and I'm done mid-May (not planning on going to law school yet this fall nor take the GRE). Unless my plans change I'd rather not mess with Bacopa

What doses Centro and Alpha-GPC work for you? Compared to what dose CDP Choline?

I've tried CDP Choline (AOR Brand) for a few months at dosages of up to 500mg (twice a day) and have found that either of Centrophenoxine or Alpha-GPC at 250mg (twice a day) are far more effective for me. Not to say that CDP Choline is ineffective, but for exam prep it doesn't hold a candle in my experience.

[Declmem]

I've tried CDP Choline (AOR Brand) for a few months at dosages of up to 500mg (twice a day) and have found that either of Centrophenoxine or Alpha-GPC at 250mg (twice a day) are far more effective for me. Not to say that CDP Choline is ineffective, but for exam prep it doesn't hold a candle in my experience.

Where did you get your Centro from? I got mine from RI but never experienced much from it. I had such high hopes too..

Also I've never tried dosages of CDP that high. I find 250mg (life extension brand) in the morning does the trick for me.

Edited by Declmem, 29 January 2010 - 05:24 AM.

[zm3thod]

I've begun taking 200mg Hup A at 8am and 5pm on Tuesdays/Thursdays (classes 9-3, 6-9), and 250mg CDP Choline at 5pm on Mondays/Wednesdays/Sundays (I study 6-10 on these days). Other studying is done more spread out and less intensely, so I'm not taking anything except maybe 1g Piracetam and lecithin. I take 500mg ALCAR upon waking

The results so far (~2 weeks) have not been good. I'm between thinking they are not helping and thinking the supplements are actually hurting my performance in the short run. This is based on a test, a quiz, and my general subjective feelings on the effects

Edited by zm3thod, 03 February 2010 - 08:14 PM.

[Owen Mac]

I've begun taking 200mg Hup A at 8am and 5pm on Tuesdays/Thursdays (classes 9-3, 6-9), and 250mg CDP Choline at 5pm on Mondays/Wednesdays/Sundays (I study 6-10 on these days). Other studying is done more spread out and less intensely, so I'm not taking anything except maybe 1g Piracetam and lecithin. I take 500mg ALCAR upon waking

The results so far (~2 weeks) have not been good. I'm between thinking they are not helping and thinking the supplements are actually hurting my performance in the short run. This is based on a test, a quiz, and my general subjective feelings on the effects

I just got some good advice about Hup A and Choline. Basically, because of their effects, you shouldn't take the two together. The Hup inhibits acetylcholinerase which prevents the acetylcholine from breaking down, and you're increasing your choline intake from the CDP Choline. From my own experience, I had better memory and recall with just choline. Hup and choline just makes me tired and depressed.

Another great thing to take is modafinil and pramiracetam. I'm sure other people on this board can vouch for their effectiveness as well. When I was taking both of them, I had really tough exams and they gave me an almost photographic memory. They also made it easier for me to think logically. But I could literally see pages of information in my mind like a book. It was such a good feeling. But different people have different effects.

If a certain stack isn't working for you, just adjust it with different noots until it does.

Good luck with it!

[RockandSoul]

I've begun taking 200mg Hup A at 8am and 5pm on Tuesdays/Thursdays (classes 9-3, 6-9), and 250mg CDP Choline at 5pm on Mondays/Wednesdays/Sundays (I study 6-10 on these days). Other studying is done more spread out and less intensely, so I'm not taking anything except maybe 1g Piracetam and lecithin. I take 500mg ALCAR upon waking

The results so far (~2 weeks) have not been good. I'm between thinking they are not helping and thinking the supplements are actually hurting my performance in the short run. This is based on a test, a quiz, and my general subjective feelings on the effects

I just got some good advice about Hup A and Choline. Basically, because of their effects, you shouldn't take the two together. The Hup inhibits acetylcholinerase which prevents the acetylcholine from breaking down, and you're increasing your choline intake from the CDP Choline. From my own experience, I had better memory and recall with just choline. Hup and choline just makes me tired and depressed.

Another great thing to take is modafinil and pramiracetam. I'm sure other people on this board can vouch for their effectiveness as well. When I was taking both of them, I had really tough exams and they gave me an almost photographic memory. They also made it easier for me to think logically. But I could literally see pages of information in my mind like a book. It was such a good feeling. But different people have different effects.

If a certain stack isn't working for you, just adjust it with different noots until it does.

Good luck with it!

Please update us when you get a chance zm3thod.

Owen Mac, I know Modafinil is tough for us to get without a prescription. Is pramiracetam easy to get? I got aniracatem from cognitive nutrition.

Edited by RockandSoul, 07 February 2010 - 05:38 PM.

[zm3thod]

Does anyone know what effects these nootropics might have on caffeine? I know the ALCAR and Huperzine stimulate me fairly strongly, and maybe CDP Choline does too. I've found I need less caffeine for the effect than I used too, especially when I'm on one of those nootropics, but also when I have been off them (the weekend).

I think part of my first problems with the new ones was overstimulation. I now work better with little to no caffeine, and I still feel a little rush from the aforementioned supps. I also moved my ALCAR to exclusively first thing upon waking

Something else I've noticed is that taking a smaller dose of piracetam works better than me. This could be because of the new nootropic effects, or the better choline supplement, or even just from the increased use of piracetam. As a result, I've cut down to .25 to .75 gram of piracetam per 4 hours or so of intended effect.

As a result of these changes I feel I did better on the quiz that followed up the last. That is, I went from feeling like they may have harmed to feeling they may have helped. Still took 1-2 huperzines on Tuesday/Thursday and 1-2 CDP cholines on Monday/Wednesday. I may try to divide my Huperzine tablets, but they are small and dense.

---

I have seen prami for sale, but it is pretty expensive per gram. I'm not sure how its price/dose works out compared to the other racetams though.

Modafanil won't happen for me. It's perscription only here, and for me it is not worth going to a doctor and getting a prescription for it.

[Brian Walker]

According to Wikipedia “There is very little data on piracetam's effect on healthy people, with most studies focusing on those with seizures, dementia, concussions, or other neurological problems.”

If you’re looking for a brand of choline that has consistency in quality and product, you should try Cognizan. It has been thoroughly tested and tried. You may not feel the effects of Citicoline but research shows that Citicoline plays an important role in the repair of neurons and the production of energy required for vital brain functions. Instead of taking so many individual nootropics, some of which may not even be necessary, I would suggest you try a single nutritional supplement which has been well-formulated. I take one which has all the important nutrients – Memory Matrix. It is certainly easier for me to remember names and addresses now.

[Dorho]

What's this smell? Did someone open the spam can?

[zm3thod]

Taking 1-2 CDP Choline while studying and ALCAR upon waking seems to be working the best for me so far.

I think I've came to find out what the problem was that led me to think the new noots hurt rather than helped (this is more a verification of my earlier post).
1) Over stimulation, I need less caffeine and piracetam than I thought, especially with these supplements
2) 200mg Huperzine A is too much for me. I can't even take it in the same day as ALCAR, I'm not sure if it would be fine if it was the only supplement that day. Yesterday I felt strongly agitated and unhappy, along with what I think was jaw clenching.

I may try taking 100mg one of these days. I'm not sure I can cut it any smaller than that

Edited by zm3thod, 03 March 2010 - 03:49 PM.

[nito]

Taking 1-2 CDP Choline while studying and ALCAR upon waking seems to be working the best for me so far.

I think I've came to find out what the problem was that led me to think the new noots hurt rather than helped (this is more a verification of my earlier post).
1) Over stimulation, I need less caffeine and piracetam than I thought, especially with these supplements
2) 200mg Huperzine A is too much for me. I can't even take it in the same day as ALCAR, I'm not sure if it would be fine if it was the only supplement that day. Yesterday I felt strongly agitated and unhappy, along with what I think was jaw clenching.

I may try taking 100mg one of these days. I'm not sure I can cut it any smaller than that

how do you feel on hyperzine? Becasue i have finished two bottels of CDP with no feelings what so ever so i dont even know if it does anything for me. I need to change choline supplement, but im not sure where to go next. DMAE, Centro, Lecithin? have no clue!

[zm3thod]

how do you feel on hyperzine? Becasue i have finished two bottels of CDP with no feelings what so ever so i dont even know if it does anything for me. I need to change choline supplement, but im not sure where to go next. DMAE, Centro, Lecithin? have no clue!

I haven't tried Hydergine.
Huperzine A is giving me negative side effects at my current dose. it will be a couple days before I try taking just 100mg instead of 200mg. I would like this noot to work because it is so much cheaper than CDP
CDP Choline isn't giving a huge effect, but something noticeable for me with regard to memory. DMAE was very subtle, and I'm not sure if it improved memory. I took soy lecithin and a 3x concentrated version, never felt anything, but never had brain fog with piracetam. ALCAR gives me an energy/focus boost, but I'm not sure if it improves my performance directly

I'm not sure if you tried it but Huperzine could work better for you, since instead of trying to create new choline it prevents it from breaking down. I haven't heard of other people reacting negatively as I have, but its definitely something to watch for

Edited by zm3thod, 04 March 2010 - 02:58 PM.

[nito]

To be honest i didn't get anything from CDP jarrow brand from iherb, and it's pretty expensive. Others have said they had success with the life extension brand which is even more expensive for some reason despite both containing same amount of pills and strenghts.

[zm3thod]

To be honest i didn't get anything from CDP jarrow brand from iherb, and it's pretty expensive. Others have said they had success with the life extension brand which is even more expensive for some reason despite both containing same amount of pills and strenghts.

That is exactly what I am taking. Is there another choline source that has worked better for you?

[nito]

To be honest i didn't get anything from CDP jarrow brand from iherb, and it's pretty expensive. Others have said they had success with the life extension brand which is even more expensive for some reason despite both containing same amount of pills and strenghts.

That is exactly what I am taking. Is there another choline source that has worked better for you?

I've only tried CDP extensively. Now i have some soy lecithin in my house i will wait and see what that does. I was thinking of trying either centro or hyperzine A next along with hydergine and pyritonol and sulbutiamine next. If none works, i think i'll put my myself out and just forget about this nootropic movement, i've spendt a few bucks now and i don't know what i got in return to be honest, apart from some anti depressant effects which i highly appreciate.

[zm3thod]

Well I forgot about this thread for a while (lol), but now that my results are in, I figured I should let you guys know how I did.

I definitely had my best semester so far. I made the Dean's List which at my college meant a GPA of over 3.4 on a 4.0 scale. My average going into the semester was just below a 3.0. The improvement was in both my ability to write long papers without taking a break/losing focus (either completely, or just poor writing) and taking exams.

The combination that worked was alternating Jarrow CDP Choline and Alpha GPC when studying or taking a test, occasional low dose 1fast400 piracetam when studying (too erratic for me to risk on tests), and 500mg Doctor's Best ALCAR on waking during the weekdays.

[rvdvaart]

When you say the best supplements for memory, you have to understand the two main types of memory. Short-term memory (or working memory) is very different from Long-Term memory. Its important to distinguish between the two.

I know from reading scientific studies that Bacopa is really good for Long-term memory. Does anyone know what specifically improves short-term working memory? Thx

[Jurence]

According to Wikipedia “There is very little data on piracetam's effect on healthy people, with most studies focusing on those with seizures, dementia, concussions, or other neurological problems.”
Memory Matrix. It is certainly easier for me to remember names and addresses now.

The proof is in the pudding.

[kassem23]

When you say the best supplements for memory, you have to understand the two main types of memory. Short-term memory (or working memory) is very different from Long-Term memory. Its important to distinguish between the two.

I know from reading scientific studies that Bacopa is really good for Long-term memory. Does anyone know what specifically improves short-term working memory? Thx

Specifically short term memory: modafinil (i.e. http://bit.ly/bY22dL). Look it up. IIRC, d-amphetamine and methylphenidate also improve short-term memory, or verbal memory. Take a look at pubmedz.

Edited by kassem23, 09 July 2010 - 01:53 AM.

[rvdvaart]

When you say the best supplements for memory, you have to understand the two main types of memory. Short-term memory (or working memory) is very different from Long-Term memory. Its important to distinguish between the two.

I know from reading scientific studies that Bacopa is really good for Long-term memory. Does anyone know what specifically improves short-term working memory? Thx

Specifically short term memory: modafinil (i.e. http://bit.ly/bY22dL). Look it up. IIRC, d-amphetamine and methylphenidate also improve short-term memory, or verbal memory. Take a look at pubmedz.

Sorry, I should have specified. I meant over the counter supplements.

Amphetamines are not a good road to go down. They are highly addictive...same with Modafinal

[kassem23]

When you say the best supplements for memory, you have to understand the two main types of memory. Short-term memory (or working memory) is very different from Long-Term memory. Its important to distinguish between the two.

I know from reading scientific studies that Bacopa is really good for Long-term memory. Does anyone know what specifically improves short-term working memory? Thx

Specifically short term memory: modafinil (i.e. http://bit.ly/bY22dL). Look it up. IIRC, d-amphetamine and methylphenidate also improve short-term memory, or verbal memory. Take a look at pubmedz.

Sorry, I should have specified. I meant over the counter supplements.

Amphetamines are not a good road to go down. They are highly addictive...same with Modafinal

I like your reasoning; except there is none. All psychotropic drugs are addictive, if said drugs are abused. Taking into consideration that one uses amphetamines or modafinil (which shows almost non-existent abuse-potential) in therapeutic dosage (of course to correct some sort of deficit one may have) is at least a better road to go down instead of living life sub-par. Ultimately it's your choice of course. In regards to your question; I believe anecdotally people have seen improvements in short-term memory or working memory with the racetams, pyritinol, sulbutiamine and other related nootropics. Psychotropic drugs, as you probably already know, affect each individual differently making it hard to say whether or not you would see benefits in working/short-term memory. Experimentation is in this regard the best way to go. Good luck.

Edited by kassem23, 09 July 2010 - 02:16 PM.

[Yearningforyears]

I am a big fan of ayurvedic herbs for memory.
My memory has never been better than it is these days and I´m in my thirties. Excellent recall, improved affective memory, stable moods, improved social functioning.

Shankapushpi (two - three times daily)
Bhringaraj (same dosage)
Inositol (one teaspoon daily)
Resveratrol
Magnesium / Zinc supplement
Fish oil
Nardostachys jatamansi (at night)
Organic coca powder (once or twice daily)
Pomegranate
Rhodiola (nice mood synergy with coca powder)
Excercising (running at least twice per week)

The ones that have benefitted me the most are Shankapushpi, Bhringaraj, Inositol and magnesium / zinc. Really good stuff.
I can´t stand the hyperness of piracetam. (I did get some nice effects from aniracetam though, but it´s over with chinese bulk chemicals for me.)
And of course, excercising is great for health, mood and memory too.

[dilenja]

Interesting perspective Nicholas, and the first I've heard of Shankapushpi and Bhringaraj actually. Are the Ayurvedic herbs you use often recommended to be used together? Curious how you currently source these as well, and also how long have you been taking this combination of Ayurvedic for? Have you experienced any negative side effects?

Cheers

I am a big fan of ayurvedic herbs for memory.
My memory has never been better than it is these days and I´m in my thirties. Excellent recall, improved affective memory, stable moods, improved social functioning.

Shankapushpi (two - three times daily)
Bhringaraj (same dosage)
Inositol (one teaspoon daily)
Resveratrol
Magnesium / Zinc supplement
Fish oil
Nardostachys jatamansi (at night)
Organic coca powder (once or twice daily)
Pomegranate
Rhodiola (nice mood synergy with coca powder)
Excercising (running at least twice per week)

The ones that have benefitted me the most are Shankapushpi, Bhringaraj, Inositol and magnesium / zinc. Really good stuff.
I can´t stand the hyperness of piracetam. (I did get some nice effects from aniracetam though, but it´s over with chinese bulk chemicals for me.)
And of course, excercising is great for health, mood and memory too.

[Rossini]

Just like you can take too many nootropics and overstimulate yourself to the point where they hinder rather than help your cognition, if you put too time into studying and not enough time into sleep or meditation, what you've spent time trying to learn won't have time to settle and "gell". Much of healing (or specifically in this case, laying down new neural pathways in your brain) takes place when we're resting or in a deep state of relaxation. Put another way, too much yang and not enough yin will throw you off balance.

[kurdishfella]

If our brains has the ability to store tens of millions of gigabytes how is it that we forget stuff?

What are some tricks we don't know our brain can do? I will suggest something unconventional. If you train your consciousness abilities your memory improves. The more you push yourself. No matter how tired you are you just keep going. You do stuff you dont wanna to and is boring. No matter the pain. No matter how much work you have done you just keep going. You sleep less. All this will be unhealthy yes but you will gain a lot from it also. Eventually your brain will develop to match what you are doing. but if you stop it will go back almost to how it was. But if you are that point you will usually never go back because your resting state will be higher (meaning brain function etc) than others. Drugs usually in my experience make you weaker. I even stayed away from essential nutrients even though deficient. Because I told myself if I am deficient and feel the ill effects, means more suffering and pain and harder for me, and I keep this up for few years it will just make me stronger and im willing to give up part of my health for that. Then when you get on vitamin supplementation you will be ever stronger. You need to find something to motivate you and cause emotional feelings. External but also from the inside. They work in unison to create powerful feelings that you can use for your own benefit. Even when you feel like shit you still keep pushing yourself on and on. The human body is very resilient and will allow it unless you have some serious diseases. But natural supplements is the way to go. Like L-DOPA for motivation. but also take other like 5-htp in low dose, so to keep your brain in balance because it is very susceptible for change and can easily cause chemical imbalance . But you can also use mental illnesses as an opportunity to learn different mental stages and take out the negative and keep the benefit part for when you return to a normal state. i dont know where im going with this but I feel like there are some parts that are true so I had to say it. reddit.com/r/biology/comments/mxmj8j/what_are_some_tricks_we_dont_know_our_brain_can_do/ Do drugs use up your own nutrients to achieve something? For example if a drug has the ability to restore bone density, is it using up calcium or something else to achieve this? Or is it purely the drug activating a pathway that calcium would otherwise do but better?

Edited by kurdishfella, 24 April 2021 - 03:44 PM.

[kurdishfella]

Going nutrient deficient somehow helped my memory. Short and long term memory fresh on my mind. etc

[kurdishfella]

Protein and fat is used to form the dendrites or whatever it is that hold the memories in place.


I used to confuse memories with each other and the time line of when it happened.