64 replies to this topic

[RighteousReason]

jesus christ

Does this comment have a point? Are you praying?

If this is a pointless comment, then I shall delete it, but maybe I missed your point.

This is exactly the kind of thread I had in mind when I brought up the idea of an ImmInst cookbook. -.-

[Grail]

Breakfast 1:
Shake:
3/4 cup blueberries
30g Whey Protein Isolate
3g creatine monohydrate
1 Tbs ground flax seed
1/2 cup oats
1/2 - 3/4 cup soy milk, or 1/2 cup coconut milk
Water
Buzz up powders, liquids, flax and oats, then add blueberries, preferably frozen to thicken shake.


Breakfast two:
3 eggs
handful baby spinach
1 tomato
little bit of mozzarella cheese (sometimes)
Salt, pepper & other herbs
Tear spinach, cut up tomato, everything in one bowl, stir with fork then microwave 2 mins. Serve by itself or with toast.

[brokenportal]

I practically never eat breakfast anymore. I wait until I'm hungry, typically around noon or 1. This also keeps me in a fasting, fat-burning mode for 4-5 more hours. ...

I hardly eat breakfast any more either, and I wait until Im hungry around 1 to 3. I like the idea that this may be mini fasting as well, but I was never sure if it is actually fasting with the same kind of benefits that you guys talk about in longer term fasting. I find that I can maintain a much higher level of focus if I dont eat in the morning, and usually try to put off eating for hours past the point of becoming hungry for this reason.

However, for the last few months Ive been trying to eat lightly in the morning, and so have been drinking a can of sodium free v8 every other morning or so. The reasoning behind that is I think it helps me have less of a crash when I finally do eat and lose my focus, It seems to boost the quality of my focus and helps sustain it, and Im hoping it helps me to feel compelled to not eat as much later in the day before I go to sleep. I cant tell for sure if it makes a difference, but it seems like it does.

[rwac]

...I find that I can maintain a much higher level of focus if I dont eat in the morning, and usually try to put off eating for hours past the point of becoming hungry for this reason.

...it helps me have less of a crash when I finally do eat and lose my focus

BP, that's quite interesting. What is your first meal of the day ?
It's possible that your body is somehow reacting badly to it.

Have you considered having just eggs for the first meal.

[mongfu]

I practically never eat breakfast anymore. I wait until I'm hungry, typically around noon or 1. This also keeps me in a fasting, fat-burning mode for 4-5 more hours. Then I'll have a 30-gram-fat/20-gram-protein shake, along with 5-10 grams extra dark chocolate.

Basically, I only eat when I'm hungry. Usually twice a day now, maybe a snack or two, like 15 macadamia nuts or a big scoop of coconut oil on top of dark chocolate.

Don't they say breakfast is the most important meal of the day and that it is unhealthy to skip it?

I used to skip breakfasts too but kinda try to eat them cause of that, can you share your opinions please?
Anyone else too :D

I used to read and believe that, too. But, since I've not been eating breakfast (unless I'm hungry, which is rare) I've not noticed any negative effect. My energy level is always great. Many other paleo eaters also find that they don't need breakfast, and they continue to lose bodyfat and feel energetic. It makes sense that we are well adapted to not needing to eat breakfast--and instead eating later in the day after a hunt, or after foraging.

BTW, if you eat a normal- to high-carb diet, then you will be hungry in the morning, and not eating breakfast is much harder. But, on a high-fat, low-carb diet, hunger is MUCH less of an issue. I often go to 2 or 4 in the afternoon before I sense any slight hunger.

I know this should be in the exercise section but nevertheless Duke, how's your training like? Do you train in the morning on a fasted state or later in the afternoon after you've had your meal ?

I only hit the gym about six times a month. I often train in a fasted state, always at noon, and do not eat for 1-2 hours after training, in order to facilitate better fat-burning. As soon as you eat (especially carbs) then you shut down fat burning.

All of the pre- and post-workout carb-loading is completely unnecessary, and in fact is likely counter-productive to building a healthier body without gaining bodyfat. BTW, I do practically no cardio, except mountain biking 2-3 times a week. Mountain biking is the perfect cardio-style exercise because it's mostly coasting (downhill) or mild peddling (85-90% of the time), with occasional super intense uphill bursts (10-15%). This variability, including occasional maximum intensity bursts, is the best type of non-injurious, yet beneficial, type of cardio. I would NEVER waste my time doing steady-pace, consistent moderate intensity cardio.

Where are there hills in Dallas? I have been trying to find some that are worthy!

[brokenportal]

...I find that I can maintain a much higher level of focus if I dont eat in the morning, and usually try to put off eating for hours past the point of becoming hungry for this reason.

...it helps me have less of a crash when I finally do eat and lose my focus

BP, that's quite interesting. What is your first meal of the day ?
It's possible that your body is somehow reacting badly to it.

Have you considered having just eggs for the first meal.

Random stuff. Ham sandwhich, mashed patatos, patato chips, shrimp, asparagus, olives, summer sausage, burrito, low fat milk, juice.
Its not the best stuff, its not precise balanced type of stuff, but its not the worst stuff, like pizza, twinkies, soda, 2% milk, candy, ice cream, cake, pancakes, all really processed food, etc.. and I try to avoid noodles and bread, I still eat them, but try not to make them a major bulk of what I eat.

I dont exactly crash, I just lose my mental acuity for a while. I thought it was typical of most meals. You know, the picture of people taking a nap after they eat. My dad and grandpa take a nap after almost every meal I see them eat, and thats all always home cooked. It seems to last a little longer than normal for me though. I usually get my focus back for a few or more hours later in the afternoon then.

I am considering trying out what its like to eat a lot right away in the morning. I think it may cause me to be slow in the morning, but may allow me to then focus all day.

[Steve_86]

I only hit the gym about six times a month. I often train in a fasted state, always at noon, and do not eat for 1-2 hours after training, in order to facilitate better fat-burning. As soon as you eat (especially carbs) then you shut down fat burning.

All of the pre- and post-workout carb-loading is completely unnecessary, and in fact is likely counter-productive to building a healthier body without gaining bodyfat.

Many seem to argue that pre/post-workout carbs are necessary for optimal strength and muscle gains, which if true would result in better long term fat-burning. I'm undecided on the matter =|

Edited by Steve_86, 05 February 2010 - 03:54 AM.

[Shepard]

I'm on the Aubrey diet. My first meal is usually a pint. I do vary my choice to make sure I get all my antioxidants, though.

[rwac]

I dont exactly crash, I just lose my mental acuity for a while. I thought it was typical of most meals. You know, the picture of people taking a nap after they eat. My dad and grandpa take a nap after almost every meal I see them eat, and thats all always home cooked. It seems to last a little longer than normal for me though. I usually get my focus back for a few or more hours later in the afternoon then.

I am considering trying out what its like to eat a lot right away in the morning. I think it may cause me to be slow in the morning, but may allow me to then focus all day.

Really sounds like you're having an insulin surge.
Why don't you try having fat, but no carbs in the breakfast.

Say eggs, or ham (not a sandwich) or a piece of cheese or whatever.
It will be interesting if you don't get tired after that.

Where you are now, I've been there, three years ago.
The solution ? Eggs for breakfast everyday.

Edit:Aarrrgh "not having fat, but no carbs" should have been "having fat, but no carbs"

Edited by rwac, 05 February 2010 - 07:12 PM.

[oehaut]

I only hit the gym about six times a month. I often train in a fasted state, always at noon, and do not eat for 1-2 hours after training, in order to facilitate better fat-burning. As soon as you eat (especially carbs) then you shut down fat burning.

All of the pre- and post-workout carb-loading is completely unnecessary, and in fact is likely counter-productive to building a healthier body without gaining bodyfat.

Many seem to argue that pre/post-workout carbs are necessary for optimal strength and muscle gains, which if true would result in better long term fat-burning. I'm undecided on the matter =|

I'm always having my post-workout carbs. You can gain weight on a low-carb diet, but it's gonna be much, much harder. After all, what you need is extra calorie. Glucose and amino acids can make it to the cell without too much insulin (post-workout), via non-insulin dependent pathways, but it's not as efficient. Also, carbs are "proteins sparing". Since after a workout much of your proteins are gonna be turned in glucose to resplenish some of your glycogen (if you don't have a carbs with it), you need mostly double amount of protein to make sure to get AAs to build new muscular proteins. Beside, I don't care if I blunt the acute lipolysis of the workout training, because the evidence clearly indicate that what matter is the energy deficit in the end of the day if you want to drop fat. Being obsess with those kind of acute response doesn't make sens in the face of the complexity of metabolic regulation. I've been on a low-carb diet without post-workout carbs and my training never suffered. But it is just much more easy to build muscle with carbs around the workout.

Edited by oehaut, 05 February 2010 - 01:35 PM.

[kenj]

Breakfast ~~ zero calorie energy drink, + a cup of hot 'strong' cocoa (low sugar), + a finish of green tea, if I have the time. Then some fruit later on.

Shepard says:

>>> I'm on the Aubrey diet. My first meal is usually a pint. I do vary my choice to make sure I get all my antioxidants, though. <<<

Very Nice. I just bought some Blueberry 'Hill' Ale, which I definitely look forward to having (not for breakfast though). I might even Sing Out Loud, if inspired; "I found my thrill on Blueberry Hill".........

[brokenportal]

Really sounds like you're having an insulin surge.
Why don't you try not having fat, but no carbs in the breakfast.

Say eggs, or ham (not a sandwich) or a piece of cheese or whatever.
It will be interesting if you don't get tired after that.

Where you are now, I've been there, three years ago.
The solution ? Eggs for breakfast everyday.

Im sure that it is an insulin surge. If I drink non diet soda during the day, which I hardly ever do now, I almost always feel like taking a nap. It seems to me though, that in addition to an insulin surge, whether modest or large for that particular meal, that its probably also that your stomach has to expend energy to digest the food. Ive read about this before, and it just makes sense, but Im not sure to what degree. It seems to me that when you eat food a large percent of your energy is now going toward digesting that food. That + insulin rush seems to be what is equallying tired to me, but Im not sure.

Eggs you say... I sure do like eggs with onions green peppers and mushrooms. But eggs are awfully fatty though arent they? I thought you just wrote try not having fat. But why eggs, and why not say, chicken sandwhich?

[rwac]

Im sure that it is an insulin surge. If I drink non diet soda during the day, which I hardly ever do now, I almost always feel like taking a nap. It seems to me though, that in addition to an insulin surge, whether modest or large for that particular meal, that its probably also that your stomach has to expend energy to digest the food. Ive read about this before, and it just makes sense, but Im not sure to what degree. It seems to me that when you eat food a large percent of your energy is now going toward digesting that food. That + insulin rush seems to be what is equallying tired to me, but Im not sure.

Eggs you say... I sure do like eggs with onions green peppers and mushrooms. But eggs are awfully fatty though arent they? I thought you just wrote try not having fat. But why eggs, and why not say, chicken sandwhich?

Oops, "not having fat, but no carbs" should have been "having fat, but no carbs"

Fat is good for you. You need some fat in your breakfast.
Chicken sandwich is too low in fat, plus the bread probably isn't all that good for you either.

As for lethargy due to digestion I don't think it happens unless you eat a large meal.

[brokenportal]

Oops, "not having fat, but no carbs" should have been "having fat, but no carbs"

Fat is good for you. You need some fat in your breakfast.
Chicken sandwich is too low in fat, plus the bread probably isn't all that good for you either.

As for lethargy due to digestion I don't think it happens unless you eat a large meal.

I know that certain kinds of fats are great for you and essential, but arent the animal fats horrible for you? Arent those the ones that get together in your arteries and block everything up and harden up and cause strokes and cholesterol and one of the number one killers in the world heart disease?

It seems to me that mental lethargy just happens to a greater degree if you eat a large meal. Maybe its just certain people. If Im working on stuff and trying to figure stuff out and look stuff up and reference and explain and find and things like that and I eat say, a handful of peanuts between 9am and 4pm then I lose my edge. I have to go and do some manual labor until my focus comes back.

[rwac]

I know that certain kinds of fats are great for you and essential, but arent the animal fats horrible for you? Arent those the ones that get together in your arteries and block everything up and harden up and cause strokes and cholesterol and one of the number one killers in the world heart disease?

It seems to me that mental lethargy just happens to a greater degree if you eat a large meal. Maybe its just certain people. If Im working on stuff and trying to figure stuff out and look stuff up and reference and explain and find and things like that and I eat say, a handful of peanuts between 9am and 4pm then I lose my edge. I have to go and do some manual labor until my focus comes back.

That's what the Conventional Wisdom says, but there hasn't been a single human study showing that saturated fat is bad for you, believe it or not. Actually it's the sugar/insulin surges that cause injury to the arteries, which leads to atherosclerosis. Gluten (wheat) causes other problems, even if you're not allergic to it.

So perhaps your body doesn't like peanuts. Listen to your body and figure out which foods make you tired.
Try some other nuts which may not make you sleepy.
Or perhaps try a block of cheese...

[edward]

Pre-shower breakfast: 25 ish grams of "edward mix" powdered supplements and a handful of pills and tablets all consumed as quickly as possible with 24 ounces of water. Res mixed with miralax or hpmc and mouth blended, held in mouth as long as possible while getting ready then swallowed.

Real-ish breakfast: 30-40 grams of whey protein, 1/3 cup of frozen wild blueberries, 5 strawberries, 1/3 cup of old fashion uncooked oatmeal, 1 tbsp olive oil, fresh kale--> amount depends on 'how much I want to enjoy my shake' to 'do I need the extra nutrition' ratio feels that morning.....fish oil and borage oil on the side (don't blend well yucky Out the door and a methyl b-12 and a crumb of deprenyl under my tongue for the ride to work

Edit: Added the pre breakfast component and other details

Edited by edward, 06 February 2010 - 05:11 AM.

[wieder]

I know that certain kinds of fats are great for you and essential, but arent the animal fats horrible for you? Arent those the ones that get together in your arteries and block everything up and harden up and cause strokes and cholesterol and one of the number one killers in the world heart disease?

No, it's pretty much the complete opposite, unfortunately and it's the cruelest experiment played upon a society at large in millenia.

If what you just said were true, our incidence of heart disease would be going down, not rising.

Put it another way: How would a culture such as the Inuit exist almost entirely on a diet of animal meat and fats with no incidence of heart disease, etc if it was the animal fat that was really the issue. Unfortunately we have been led astray just like doctors saying cigarette smoking wasn't a factor in cancer and lung disease. They are ignoring repeatedly the nutrient that was suddenly added to the diets of society (processed carbs and sugars) when the incidence of diabetes, heart disease, etc started to appear.

[edward]

Unless you have time in the morning, for me the best way to pack a nutritional punch in a small package is (for me, only a practical cook) is to blend it, adjust the recipe for tastes, nutrients or specific needs: work, school, chillin and you have a preprogrammed quick meal ready to be made. There was some advice I heard once, and I misquote "the people that stay healthy, in shape or meet their goals nutritionally are the ones that have a repertoire of core nutritious meals that can be made over and over again and compromise the majority of their food intake" while those who fail "are those who haphazardly throw things together or are forced to eat out the majority of meals.

[gregandbeaker]

Unless you have time in the morning, for me the best way to pack a nutritional punch in a small package is (for me, only a practical cook) is to blend it, adjust the recipe for tastes, nutrients or specific needs: work, school, chillin and you have a preprogrammed quick meal ready to be made. There was some advice I heard once, and I misquote "the people that stay healthy, in shape or meet their goals nutritionally are the ones that have a repertoire of core nutritious meals that can be made over and over again and compromise the majority of their food intake" while those who fail "are those who haphazardly throw things together or are forced to eat out the majority of meals.

That's a good point. Learning how to prepare and cook a good set of high value foods in ways that I enjoy has been critical to my success with this. Boxed foods and eating out will almost always result in net-negative results. I finally got around to learning how to cook well watching Alton Brown's "Good Eats" show on the Food network (the techniques more than the recipes). He does a pretty good job of showing the science behind what you need to know to produce good food in your kitchen.

[JLL]

I know that certain kinds of fats are great for you and essential, but arent the animal fats horrible for you? Arent those the ones that get together in your arteries and block everything up and harden up and cause strokes and cholesterol and one of the number one killers in the world heart disease?

Oh dear. You're so busy at the frontline of the aging war that you've missed all the threads about this in the past few years

[DukeNukem]

I know that certain kinds of fats are great for you and essential, but arent the animal fats horrible for you? Arent those the ones that get together in your arteries and block everything up and harden up and cause strokes and cholesterol and one of the number one killers in the world heart disease?

Oh dear. You're so busy at the frontline of the aging war that you've missed all the threads about this in the past few years

The exact same thought occurred to me. Really shows the huge divide between the "longevity" movement and the "health" movement. How can someone so in touch with the longevity community be so out-of-touch with health! But, it happens -- a lot more than we probably realize. When I first joined this board 5 years ago, I made this very point with Aubrey de Grey, who eats (and drinks) in quite an unhealthy fashion. He has said that he has good genes, that allow him to get away with this. Utter hogwash, but again, it reveals this great divide.

[Logan]

I'm on the Aubrey diet. My first meal is usually a pint. I do vary my choice to make sure I get all my antioxidants, though.

Are you talking about a pint of beer? If so, you're kidding right?

Is there an Aubrey diet?

[SpawnMoreOverlords]

Smoothies. Especially if youre low on time. No planning required either, throw whatever you consider healthy in a blender and its good to go. usually a bunch of fruit, leafy veggies, other random stuff. I usually add lots of flax seeds, cocoa powder or dark chocolate, some kind of oil(usually olive), dried fruit/berries(raisins, black currants), whey protein... possibilities are endless. You should of course optimize it for your own goals. If I'm looking to gain weight so I added 3.25%milk(before I dropped dairy), nuts(almonds, walnuts) etc... takes a while to get used to the taste though

[Shepard]

Are you talking about a pint of beer? If so, you're kidding right?

Why not? It's the perfect meal.

What else would I drink? Coke? I was told HFCS was the devil. Diet Coke? Bah, aspartame will give you the cancers. Water? You know what kind of fluoride and trace prescription medications are in that crap? Bottled water? You know what kind of junk leaches out of the plastic?

Guinness. Keeping Shepard sane and virile since 1984.

[rwac]

Guinness. Keeping Shepard sane and virile since 1984.

Got one word for ya. Gluten.

[Shepard]

Got one word for ya. Gluten.

I need all the protein I can get. Weightlifting and whatnot.

Edited by Shepard, 09 February 2010 - 06:14 PM.

[Sillewater]

How about the high GI of maltose.

[rwac]

I need all the protein I can get. Weightlifting and whatnot.

Except that no mammalian digestive enzymes (or very few) are actually capable of digesting gluten.

[Shepard]

How about the high GI of maltose.

The maltose is food for the yeast to give me glorious ethanol and carbonation. Little danger.

Except that no mammalian digestive enzymes (or very few) are actually capable of digesting gluten.

Good, didn't need the Calories, anyway. Another plus is the TEF of ethanol is quite high.


It's almost like people form opinions about data based around around their own preconceived notions. Wonder how that skews nutritional opinions.

[Sillewater]

I'm just joining in to pick on the beer drinking.