291 replies to this topic

[rwac]

I also have the Swanson brand of Lion's Mane and makes me more tired than I normally am, with a slight headache for the first hour. It says it's all fruiting bodies. Maybe it's just how some people react to it. Being a couple months ahead of me in taking it, did you continue? Any incline in the effects? I've taken it for a week so far - starting to think of trying it at night instead.

I stopped it after a couple of days. Might try it again later.

[golden1]

Just wanted to update that I'm still taking 1-3 grams every couple of days and it still has the most profound effect on my vision. It's worth it for me simply because of how beautiful and crisp the world becomes. Trees, especially now during fall, are the best.

I'd guess it has something to do with "Stimulated myelination"(stated on wikipedia, ..in vitro study) possibly making the path from my eyes to the brain have less noise and such. Or maybe it's the NGF factor strengthening my visual cortex or the nerves that carry the signals there... or both. Either way, it is quite the difference.

I get the same effect from Aniracetam and am very interested to know if it's a similar or different mechanism of action. I've started eating the actual mushrooms daily (I get them at the asian grocer) as an experimental adjunct to my daily stack. Will report back with results.

This differs, in my opinion, in that it's much more crisp and powerful of an effect compared to aniracetam, however aniracetam certainly does make things look much better in a similar way, but not quite as intense and in more of a post-processed type way rather than it feeling like my vision is actually clearer.

Aniracetam combined with this effect is even better though

[NR2(x)]

I just brought one kilo of Hou Tou Gu form $10 for a Chinese Grocier Store. The earlier poster was correct, this is Lions Mane. Interested to see the effect. Starting with a soup of 50grams

Edited by NR2(x), 02 November 2010 - 04:13 AM.

[health_nutty]

I just brought one kilo of Hou Tou Gu form $10 for a Chinese Grocier Store. The earlier poster was correct, this is Lions Mane. Interested to see the effect. Starting with a soup of 50grams

Let me know if you feel anything from it.

[NR2(x)]

Im not 100% that what I will describe is not just a placebo effect, effects started 3-5 hours after ingestion.
I noticed increased visual effects, very akin to a hypnotic interest in moving trees, seemed beautiful(which is unusual). I noticed grossly improved function while running, in a leg that has lost 15cm of tigh muscle due to surgery. I was rather energetic as i got up this morning which is unusual. Nothing else of particular interest, no acedemic work attempted.

As for MOA, studies to mention benzyl hydroxals, which form compounds similar to the following peptides

http://www.aapsj.org...art=aapsj080232

Might be similar to phenyloxyethylamines

[jayice]

Guys found a link for the Mental Clarity product that you were all talking about! says that they still have it in stock for immediate dispatch: http://www.nutrition...0_Vegicaps.html hope this helps!

[nito]

Guys found a link for the Mental Clarity product that you were all talking about! says that they still have it in stock for immediate dispatch: http://www.nutrition...0_Vegicaps.html hope this helps!

is this the real shi#?

[against_all_odds]

I have tested this product further and I am now comfortable to share with the forum. The website is http://www.srnutrachem.com. Still not sold on it 100% but will continue to use it.

Is it just me, or did they photoshop their sign onto the side of the building?

I'm a little confused about your report of the purity, potency, and effects of this LM product, as it seems like you're mixing in two other mushrooms that will really confound the results.

Their site says, "Sunrise Nutrachem Group have passed GMP,ISO,HACCP certificate.". I exchanged a few emails with them in order to get pricing info. Eventually i asked if i can see some pictures of these certificates. I haven't heard from them since. The search continues..

[Mareg]

I just brought one kilo of Hou Tou Gu form $10 for a Chinese Grocier Store. The earlier poster was correct, this is Lions Mane. Interested to see the effect. Starting with a soup of 50grams

I've been wondering, can you cook this stuff and still retain the NGF affecting properties?

Also, this is my first post. I've read through the entire thread, thanks to both babcock and chrono for their dedication.

[chrono]

I've been wondering, can you cook this stuff and still retain the NGF affecting properties?

Polysaccharides are supposed to stand up well to heat. However, I have no idea about cyathanes and phenols/chromans (the NGF-inducers). I guess the best answer is that it's safest not to.

[babcock]

I've been wondering, can you cook this stuff and still retain the NGF affecting properties?

Polysaccharides are supposed to stand up well to heat. However, I have no idea about cyathanes and phenols/chromans (the NGF-inducers). I guess the best answer is that it's safest not to.

Although I enjoy the scientificocity (Yea that's a word :-P) of your answer chrono I want to point out that the Japanese study (kawagashi?) administered 5g of dried lion's mane mushroom cooked in soup with significant results. Just throwing that out there.

[chrono]

Although I enjoy the scientificocity (Yea that's a word :-P) of your answer chrono I want to point out that the Japanese study (kawagashi?) administered 5g of dried lion's mane mushroom cooked in soup with significant results. Just throwing that out there.

Good call! I'm glad someone's paying attention. I actually thought of that, but kinda pushed it aside for a couple of reasons. First, I'm a space case because I'm waiting for my reorder of ALCAR to get here, and I haven't had piracetam/ALCAR in like a week and a half ;_; More relevantly, I assumed that cooking soup might be pretty low-heat (low simmer on a stovetop is a lot different than a pizza or casserole in the oven). 5g dried material is also a pretty high dose, so some could be lost and still be pretty efficacious. It could be fine, but subjecting pretty much any molecule to high temps is a risk.


Also relevant to our search is an idea that heating in water breaks apart cell walls, and makes the target molecules more bioavailable. This seems to be a somewhat common assumption in the 'traditional medicine' community, and among people who sell water extracts I think it's at least somewhat problematic, but all other things being equal, it may be a good enough reason to spring for a good extract. See discussion starting here.

Edited by chrono, 16 November 2010 - 01:59 AM.

[babcock]

5g dried material is also a pretty high dose, so some could be lost and still be pretty efficacious. It could be fine, but subjecting pretty much any molecule to high temps is a risk.

I concur. But I believe the 5g of dried material was just straight up dried mushroom. Not 5g of extract so in reality it may have not been that high of a dosage.

[bobman]

Just wanted to bump this and add the sources I use. I don't have time to read through the entire thread, so I apologize if these two suppliers have been mentioned.

I've spoken to owners of both, and I put the response to my email below the link to the product the quote refers to. Both are certified organic.

https://www.mushroom...3c886b3103f6262
"Our products are steam extracts, which is a mechanical method of
extraction. This proprietary process allows us to break the beta-glucans
off the cell walls making them bio-available. At the same time we
maintain and make available many the myriad of other constituents such as
triterpenes and antioxidants.

Hot water extracts will isolate the beta-glucans, but tend to lose many of
the other constituents, such as antioxidants and glyconutrients. In this
process the hot water extraction breaks some of the beta-glucans off the
cell wall, but not even close to all of them. Then the rest of the
mushroom, along with all the beneficial constituents still a part of the
mushroom, are thrown away.

Alcohol extracts can help draw out the di- and tri-terpenes, sterols as
well as other alcohol soluble constituents. The alcohol extraction method
results in a dilution of the original concentration of these compounds
that are in the mushroom, although it does increase the bioavailability of
these compounds. The beta-glucans and other beneficial polysaccharides are
not extracted whatsoever.

We don't make extracts focusing on one constituent - the majority of the
mushroom extracts out there are mostly composed of beta-glucans (also
referred to as polysaccharides on many labels). There are so many
different types of beneficial constituents in mushrooms in addition to
beta-glucans. We made the effort to have the ability to make steam
extracts of whole mushroom powders, so we could produce mushroom powders
that are both bioavailable and have the full range of medicinal benefits
that mushrooms have to offer. The triterpenes are responsible for the
cholesterol reduction, blood pressure reduction, allergy and asthma
relief, anti-inflammatory properties, etc.


Thank you,

Hunter
"
Also (2nd email, with text formatting issues):
"Mushroom Harvest medicinal mushroom powders are organically grown in a
manner exceeding organic standards to provide the highest quality product
possible. They are rich in 1,3 β-D and 1,6 β-D glucans,
glycoproteins, arabinoxylans, triterpenes, ergosterol and antioxidants.
The mushrooms and mycelium are grown on a certified organic substrate
with GMP’s, HACCP procedures, SSOP’s and with guaranteed P-values . The
mushrooms and mycelium are dried to a moisture level below 10% and are
ground to a fineness of 200 – 500 microns. The mushroom powders are then
activated by steam extraction to make the medicinal constituents readily
bio-available for maximum potency. Each lot is sent to an analytical lab
for microbial testing before it is cleared for shipping. Our product
requires no further processing on your part.
"


http://fungihealth.c...ne-extract-1-lb
"Hello !

The mushrooms and mycelium are dried to a moisture level below 10% and are ground to a fineness of 200 - 500 microns. The mushroom powders are then activated by hot water steam extraction (solvent free) to make the medicinal constituents readily bio-available for maximum potency. All of our mushroom extracts have a minium beta-glucan content of 20 %
Let me know if you have any more questions.


Bryan Warman
Fungi Health "

My impression of Mushroom Harvest was better, and I ordered 1lb of the extract once again. The previous batch I found to be about as potent, at 2 level teaspoons a day, as the Mushroom Science extract, both were efficacious. I will let you know how it works out, it should arrive tomorrow (they had a rapid turnaround time btw, shipped at 11am Monday, ordered Sunday night).

[houdini]

what do you think of Grifron Maitake, Mushroom Wisdom, Super Lion's Mane?

http://www.iherb.com...plets/4963?at=0

Looks good to me.

[Steve_86]

what do you think of Grifron Maitake, Mushroom Wisdom, Super Lion's Mane?

http://www.iherb.com...plets/4963?at=0

Looks good to me.

I'm curious also.

It would me much appreciated if someone could write up a summary of effective lion’s mane products and the ones to avoid.

[kikai93]

Back from the grand Lion's Mane experiment.

Whole Lion's Mane Mushroom (Hou Tou Gu) from store, cooked in soup, 30g per breakfast:
Outstanding results. The visual acuity mentioned by another poster was experienced, as well as minor but noticeable improvement in other sense perceptions (particularly taste) after 1 week.
After two weeks, noticeable cognitive improvements (both in "thought chasing" and in calculation) were experienced. I used written tests before and after to quantify the results.
I'll be continuing along this path. After consulting a local chinese medical doctor (meaning he is a medical doctor, western style, who also has a degree in chinese medicine) about possible side effects, he laughed and told me not to worry so much. Apparently several chinese emperors ate the stuff daily for their entire lives. He compared its safety to reishi mushroom. Good stuff.

Incidentally, if you have access to someone who really knows their chinese medicine, I've found them to be a wealth of info on topics like mushrooms and traditional herbs.

[Delta Gamma]

Back from the grand Lion's Mane experiment.

Whole Lion's Mane Mushroom (Hou Tou Gu) from store, cooked in soup, 30g per breakfast:
Outstanding results. The visual acuity mentioned by another poster was experienced, as well as minor but noticeable improvement in other sense perceptions (particularly taste) after 1 week.
After two weeks, noticeable cognitive improvements (both in "thought chasing" and in calculation) were experienced. I used written tests before and after to quantify the results.
I'll be continuing along this path. After consulting a local chinese medical doctor (meaning he is a medical doctor, western style, who also has a degree in chinese medicine) about possible side effects, he laughed and told me not to worry so much. Apparently several chinese emperors ate the stuff daily for their entire lives. He compared its safety to reishi mushroom. Good stuff.

Incidentally, if you have access to someone who really knows their chinese medicine, I've found them to be a wealth of info on topics like mushrooms and traditional herbs.

Great to hear kikai93, I'll definately be checking out the Chinese grocery stores near my res once I'm done exams. A question though, are there any charecteristics I should look for when I'm buying Hou Tou Gu? Anything from, pick the big ones, the darker the better, go for yellow ones over grey ones, fresh vs dehyrated...etc.

I've been looking a NGF stimulation for some time, and Lion's Mane seems to be the best route.

[kikai93]

Back from the grand Lion's Mane experiment.

Whole Lion's Mane Mushroom (Hou Tou Gu) from store, cooked in soup, 30g per breakfast:
Outstanding results. The visual acuity mentioned by another poster was experienced, as well as minor but noticeable improvement in other sense perceptions (particularly taste) after 1 week.
After two weeks, noticeable cognitive improvements (both in "thought chasing" and in calculation) were experienced. I used written tests before and after to quantify the results.
I'll be continuing along this path. After consulting a local chinese medical doctor (meaning he is a medical doctor, western style, who also has a degree in chinese medicine) about possible side effects, he laughed and told me not to worry so much. Apparently several chinese emperors ate the stuff daily for their entire lives. He compared its safety to reishi mushroom. Good stuff.

Incidentally, if you have access to someone who really knows their chinese medicine, I've found them to be a wealth of info on topics like mushrooms and traditional herbs.

Great to hear kikai93, I'll definately be checking out the Chinese grocery stores near my res once I'm done exams. A question though, are there any charecteristics I should look for when I'm buying Hou Tou Gu? Anything from, pick the big ones, the darker the better, go for yellow ones over grey ones, fresh vs dehyrated...etc.

I've been looking a NGF stimulation for some time, and Lion's Mane seems to be the best route.

To be perfectly honest, I tell the proprietors "give me the best ones please." I am decidedly not an expert on mushroom cultivation or preparation. I'll be happy to give you pointers on heirloom tomatoes and various herbs if you like. :P

[Delta Gamma]

To be perfectly honest, I tell the proprietors "give me the best ones please." I am decidedly not an expert on mushroom cultivation or preparation. I'll be happy to give you pointers on heirloom tomatoes and various herbs if you like. :P

Haha, I'll keep that in mind :p
How do you prepare it, and more importantly (to me at least) how does it taste?

[Colli]

I had been taking the Swanson brand Lion's Mane with decent results (overall cognitive sharpening, slightly improved memory) and minimal side effects (slight fatigue). However, as it's a fruiting body only product, I was keen to try another brand which included the mycelium. After looking around I decided to order this product: Myco Nutri Lion's Mane capsules. It includes the mycelium and young (although perhaps less effective) fruiting bodies as powdered biomass. At £9.95, it didn't seem too expensive either; unfortunately, I'm currently unemployed and so price is a huge consideration for me. A better price per gram can be gained from buying their bulk powder, but I couldn't stretch to the extra overall cost.

I've been taking the Myco Nutri capsules for about a week now ... and boy, this stuff is knocking Hell out of me. I feel constantly exhausted. I've tried taking it at various times during the day and last thing at night, and it makes no difference whatsoever. I have to drag myself out of bed in the morning and it's an effort to get throught the day. And as for cognitive benefits? There have been none whatsoever - quite the opposite, in fact. My memory, which has never been brilliant, has suffered greatly. I'm constantly forgetting things, even to the point where I've started a sentence and have then forgotten what I was going to say. I'm a lot 'slower' overall and in particular feel that my comprehension has taken a big hit.

I can't really tolerate this any longer in the hope that things will improve, so I've decided to stop taking these capsules. I just want to be clear that I'm not deliberately attacking this particular product - maybe I got a bad batch or perhaps it's just not working for me, but YMMV.

[mentatpsi]

I recently bought dried Hou Tou Gu from a Chinese Supermarket and have to admit I'm not sure how beneficial it is. I can't get past the texture, the process seems to require a 30 minute boiling in order to purify the mushroom and one can see a discoloration of the water which makes me wonder how much of the water soluble compounds are soaking out during this necessary process. I had thought that most of the water soluble compounds were contained within the fruiting body. However I did feel some slight effect from what little I did eat. I recall that the dried shitake mushrooms i bought awhile ago had a similar texture when I know their fresh texture is much different, so I imagine it's an attribute of the rehydration. The cost wasn't expensive either, it's just making it edible that makes me wonder about it. I'll have to look for it fresh but I'm not sure where to find that.

[aLurker]

I wonder what Rita Levi-Montalcini, the person who discovered NGF, is using in her NGF eyedrops and what her source is. I bet it must be something custom synthesized. I would be interested in trying this if I can find a good source.

Intracerebroventricular NGF administration is much more effective I imagine Rita is taking regular NGF, it's used in experimental ocular treatments too. And she runs a research institute, she can order lyophilized NGF from any supplier on the planet. I'm sure the price drops significantly when you order more than 5mcg at once.

Anyway, intranasal administration might be more effective than conjunctive:

Delivery of NGF to the brain: intranasal versus ocular administration in anti-NGF transgenic mice.

Nerve growth factor (NGF) has a great potential for the treatment of Alzheimer's disease. However, the therapeutic administration of NGF represents a significant challenge, due to the difficulty to deliver relevant doses to the brain, in a safe and non-invasive way. We previously demonstrated the efficacy of a non-invasive delivery of NGF to the brain in animal models, by an intranasal route. Recently, topical eye application of NGF was proposed, as an option for the delivery of NGF to the brain. Here, we compare the efficacy of the two delivery routes of hNGF-61, a recombinant traceable form of human NGF, in the mouse neurodegeneration model AD11. The intranasal administration appeared to be significantly more effective than the ocular one, in rescuing the neurodegenerative phenotypic hallmarks in AD11 mice. The ocular administration of hNGF-61 showed a more limited efficacy, even at higher doses. Thus, NGF nasal drops represent a viable and effective option to successfully deliver therapeutic NGF to the brain in a non-invasive manner.

PMID: 19221427 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Would snorting 0.5-1 ml of Mycetobotanicals Lion's Mane solution be a good idea? Shouldn't be too hard to get that much in your nose but it does contain 25% alcohol. Is this an issue? If it burns too much I can always cut it with a little water until it is tolerable. It could also help my stuffy nose since alcohol doesn't just kill brain cells

Would the grand total of 0.125-0.25 ml of intranasal alcohol pose any threat if taken chronically? (I'll probably also combine it with stuff that protects against alcohol induced damage, such as racetams.)

Edit:
That amount should be negligible and nasal spray used to relieve hay fevers doesn't seem to interfere with alcohol testing. Well... I didn't manage to find a lot of data points here but rough calculations seem to indicate that I'm being paranoid.

Has anyone tried this?

Edited by aLurker, 22 December 2010 - 11:04 PM.

[kikai93]

I wonder what Rita Levi-Montalcini, the person who discovered NGF, is using in her NGF eyedrops and what her source is. I bet it must be something custom synthesized. I would be interested in trying this if I can find a good source.

Intracerebroventricular NGF administration is much more effective I imagine Rita is taking regular NGF, it's used in experimental ocular treatments too. And she runs a research institute, she can order lyophilized NGF from any supplier on the planet. I'm sure the price drops significantly when you order more than 5mcg at once.

Anyway, intranasal administration might be more effective than conjunctive:

Delivery of NGF to the brain: intranasal versus ocular administration in anti-NGF transgenic mice.

Nerve growth factor (NGF) has a great potential for the treatment of Alzheimer's disease. However, the therapeutic administration of NGF represents a significant challenge, due to the difficulty to deliver relevant doses to the brain, in a safe and non-invasive way. We previously demonstrated the efficacy of a non-invasive delivery of NGF to the brain in animal models, by an intranasal route. Recently, topical eye application of NGF was proposed, as an option for the delivery of NGF to the brain. Here, we compare the efficacy of the two delivery routes of hNGF-61, a recombinant traceable form of human NGF, in the mouse neurodegeneration model AD11. The intranasal administration appeared to be significantly more effective than the ocular one, in rescuing the neurodegenerative phenotypic hallmarks in AD11 mice. The ocular administration of hNGF-61 showed a more limited efficacy, even at higher doses. Thus, NGF nasal drops represent a viable and effective option to successfully deliver therapeutic NGF to the brain in a non-invasive manner.

PMID: 19221427 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Would snorting 0.5-1 ml of Mycetobotanicals Lion's Mane solution be a good idea? Shouldn't be too hard to get that much in your nose but it does contain 25% alcohol. Is this an issue? If it burns too much I can always cut it with a little water until it is tolerable. It could also help my stuffy nose since alcohol doesn't just kill brain cells

Would the grand total of 0.125-0.25 ml of intranasal alcohol pose any threat if taken chronically? (I'll probably also combine it with stuff that protects against alcohol induced damage, such as racetams.)

Edit:
That amount should be negligible and nasal spray used to relieve hay fevers doesn't seem to interfere with alcohol testing. Well... I didn't manage to find a lot of data points here but rough calculations seem to indicate that I'm being paranoid.

Has anyone tried this?

Intranasal administration would probably be my last choice for just about anything. Bleah.

[treetop]

I've been taking 4 per day for one month of the Fungi Perfecti Lion's Mane which is a mycelium/ brown rice mix (the brown rice is just what wasn't completely consumed by the mycelium). This is in addition to the 3 per day Carlson's DHA Gems that I was already taking for a number of months. I feel the Lion's Mane mycelium has definitely added another boost in cognitive performance. In the last week and a half I have also added daily Vitamin Shoppe Bacopa at one or two per day. These three supplements are all I take on a daily basis. The most expensive is the Lion's Mane mycelium.

I have started growing my own mycelium on organic brown rice but have not taken any of it yet. Waiting until the Fungi Perfecti brand runs out; I bought four bottles. I noticed the Fungi Perfecti brand is freeze dried. Looks like a freeze drier would run ~$10k... would a standard food dehydrator work just as well for home use?

Edited by treetop, 31 December 2010 - 02:36 PM.

[Agee]

Eighty something dollars down the drain, lol. Was saving up money for college books too. I bought the MRLUSA Lions Mane and have been taking it for about four days now. Nada...or well, I wouldn't say nothing, just don't feel a damn thing. Six grams during the day, maybe a gram or two at night and nothing. First night I felt a little off, but I was taking some other stuff and due to hormones im just not getting enough sleep.

There might be a subtle effect however, or it might just be me being more aware of my body in anticipation of an effect. Basically, nothing unusually, just a little more sensitive in some areas, have a few aches, but thats really expected because im only 18 and not even close to finishing puberty.

It might be that I have a high tolerance to most...supplements, or the ones i've taken just don't work. But I think its the former. I have a fast metabolism, so when I take something, if its going to work, it works fast. Im talking, on a not so empty stomach, first time I took Alcar, hit me in 2-3 minutes, lifted some of my daytime fatigue, but this was in larger than normal doses, it was atleast over 5 grams. Other supplements i've taken I need to megadose.

Im using formestane right now and I tried 200mg one morning, nada. Its pretty inconsistent though, I wake up about 2-3 pm, an hour later, I could take 50mg or less and am very hungry and slightly sleepy. Sometimes it arouses me, but very little. (Im guessing my hormonal levels, specifically testosterone, are somewhere around below average at best.)

Anyways, six grams of MRLUSA which is what Golden1 took, him and the others reported perception alterations and what not, other stuff....nothing really for me. Same vision, although im near sighted. Glasses on or off, same vision (Not that its bad though). Im considering taking ....I don't know....Kakai took thirty grams? I don't want to waste this stuff, but im going to move up to 12 grams by the end of the night if nobody replies trying to persuade me into not doing so.

-I take it with Alcar too, in an attempt to increase whatever effect it should be having on me.

Edited by Agee, 10 January 2011 - 01:13 AM.

[treetop]

I think a lot of herbs have more of a cumulative effect and Lion's Mane fits into that category. I don't think it makes you "feel" anything right away. You probably need to take it in the 5 gram range for about a month. I think I am gaining benefits but it is hard to say how much the Lion's Mane is contributing since I am also taking fish oil and bacopa daily. I've never felt anything immediately after ingestion though.

[treetop]

... Just did a search on Golden1 ... Could be other things causing his alterations of perception?

[golden1]

nope Its the lion's mane.I have to get more the effect is much less obvious now that I ran out

[kikai93]

Anyways, six grams of MRLUSA which is what Golden1 took, him and the others reported perception alterations and what not, other stuff....nothing really for me. Same vision, although im near sighted. Glasses on or off, same vision (Not that its bad though). Im considering taking ....I don't know....Kakai took thirty grams? I don't want to waste this stuff, but im going to move up to 12 grams by the end of the night if nobody replies trying to persuade me into not doing so.
-I take it with Alcar too, in an attempt to increase whatever effect it should be having on me.

I buy the mushrooms themselves fresh from a chinese supermarket in Philadelphia. I do eat a soup containing 30 to 50g of lion's mane mushroom every morning. You might try that if you have a grocer that carries it. Costs me about $10/month.