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Resveratrol pills worthless?


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#31 N.T.M.

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 05:09 AM

I found a very provokative statement from the depths of the interwebs:

Due to processing, grape juice provides little resveratrol. Sun-dried raisins also contain no resveratrol due to oxidation by sun rays. The same is true for resveratrol pills which are widely marketed. Their resveratrol content, extracted from the Giant Knotweed plant (also called fo-ti in Asian cultures) for use in dietary supplements, is nil. Sinclair has tested a number of brands of resveratrol pills and their resveratrol content was zero. The resveratrol disappears soon after exposure to air during encapsulation. For now, red wine is the only reliable source of resveratrol.

http://www.lewrockwe...di/sardi25.html

This can't be true, or can it?

In case you're interested, I found the page as I was googling for the resveratrol content of raisins. There is contradictory information on that as well and I would really like to know the truth. Does anyone have access to this study?


It's true! I actually just finished working for a company called Univera that boasted that their resveratrol was the only one that is stabilized and actually contains resveratrol indefinitely. Google search it.

Each serving is equivalent to about 100 bottles of wine and was stabilized with vitamin E, EPA and DHA (I believe, unless there was more). Also, it was 3rd party validated. It's the only true resveratrol supplement that I'm aware of.

*edit* I just found this: http://1familyman.wo...l-and-diabetes/

*edit again* Here's this too:

http://dawinedog.blo...01_archive.html

*edit again* Meh, somebody could just contact the head scientist, Stephen Cherniske. I just can't seem to find any good links.

Oh please, Stop it! Univera is a bullshit MLM outfit. You've given us a link to a religious site that has an Intelligent Design video; the guy is one of countless Univera sellers. Univera doesn't have anything worth a damn. Resveratrol doesn't need to be "stabilized". The science has been done on this; you were misled by your employer.


I agree that the links aren't credible, but that's why I mentioned that things should be corroborated.

I'm certainly inclined to disagree with you, however, I must always remain objective. That in mind I'll have to research it more. If I'm wrong I'd like to whole-heartedly thank you.

*edit* "Due to processing, grape juice provides little resveratrol. Sun-dried raisins also contain no resveratrol due to oxidation by sun rays. The same is true for resveratrol pills which are widely marketed. Their resveratrol content, extracted from the Giant Knotweed plant (also called fo-ti in Asian cultures) for use in dietary supplements, is nil. Sinclair has tested a number of brands of resveratrol pills and their resveratrol content was zero. The resveratrol disappears soon after exposure to air during encapsulation. For now, red wine is the only reliable source of resveratrol."

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but without the vit E, etc. to preserve its contents, why wouldn't it be useless like the OP suggests and you're stating? I'm just trying to elucidate a discrepancy here. :(

Edited by N.T.M., 26 February 2010 - 05:14 AM.


#32 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 01:22 PM

There are many issues, if this Univera is MLM and has res.

1- MLM folks have to pay out people underneath them, this increases the price of the product over others on the market. You should probably consider the price watch list, if you are looking for resveratrol products: http://www.imminst.o...ers-t36436.html

2- $81.50 for a bottle of 30 doses (serving size is 2 capsules) with only 125mg per serving is quite expensive compared to others on the list.

3- The product has no COA, and since they don't explain or market the purity of the Resveratrol found in it's contents, you have to assume it is less than 50% purity.

4- They do not specify if the Res comes from a grape so it probably comes from polygonum. Lastly if it does come from a grape, then people would like to know if they are Kosher... and it doesn't look that way either.

5- The marketing regarding "Sun-dried raisins" and "processing" simply makes folks consider a supplement for an increase in resveratrol, however they don't appear to use a nitrogen gas filled capsule, or anything special that other supplements use to protect the resveratrol. It appears they simply use gelatin capsules.

6- The ingredients state yellow beeswax, This is bad for high absorption as it typically creates a paste which dissolves slowly. Even typical dry capsule resveratrol capsules without much else in them would likely be better regarding absorption. We don't use it because your metabolism eats up resveratrol quickly. Having the resveratrol release slowly overtime will not allow a spike in the blood that I am looking for, so this one is simply not one I would take if I am looking for the increase in plasma levels.

This really appears to be a supplement for folks who want high dose of B6 and B12, not res.

Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 26 February 2010 - 01:28 PM.


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#33 N.T.M.

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Posted 07 March 2010 - 06:42 AM

There are many issues, if this Univera is MLM and has res.

1- MLM folks have to pay out people underneath them, this increases the price of the product over others on the market. You should probably consider the price watch list, if you are looking for resveratrol products: http://www.imminst.o...ers-t36436.html

2- $81.50 for a bottle of 30 doses (serving size is 2 capsules) with only 125mg per serving is quite expensive compared to others on the list.

3- The product has no COA, and since they don't explain or market the purity of the Resveratrol found in it's contents, you have to assume it is less than 50% purity.

4- They do not specify if the Res comes from a grape so it probably comes from polygonum. Lastly if it does come from a grape, then people would like to know if they are Kosher... and it doesn't look that way either.

5- The marketing regarding "Sun-dried raisins" and "processing" simply makes folks consider a supplement for an increase in resveratrol, however they don't appear to use a nitrogen gas filled capsule, or anything special that other supplements use to protect the resveratrol. It appears they simply use gelatin capsules.

6- The ingredients state yellow beeswax, This is bad for high absorption as it typically creates a paste which dissolves slowly. Even typical dry capsule resveratrol capsules without much else in them would likely be better regarding absorption. We don't use it because your metabolism eats up resveratrol quickly. Having the resveratrol release slowly overtime will not allow a spike in the blood that I am looking for, so this one is simply not one I would take if I am looking for the increase in plasma levels.

This really appears to be a supplement for folks who want high dose of B6 and B12, not res.

Cheers
A


VERY informative. Thanks, man :).

In your opinion, what is the best resveratrol product?

#34 bixbyte

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Posted 07 March 2010 - 04:23 PM

U of Wisconsin resveratrol researcher Richard Weindruch says that combination of IP6 and quercetin along with resveratrol in longevinex seems to have a synergistic effect. So at least he is explaining the reasoning why this may be so. But we don't know how close either are to SRT 501 or ovreall effectiveness.


Anyone know the reason for dosing with IP6?
This is a chelation supplement therefore possesses properties of Removing heavy metals.
I would be more inclined to believe IP6 could negate some the efficacy of Resveratrol?
Quercetin is a flavanoid and may be an enhancer taken along with Res in very small doses?

#35 bixbyte

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Posted 07 March 2010 - 04:33 PM

Our posts crossed. Westphals patent app compares Tween 80 and HPMC/DOSS (srt501) to plain micronized resveratrol, and shows exactly that.


Shows that SRT501 is 5 times as potent? You are willing to say Nitro 250 is 5 times as potent as plain 98% resv? It might be, but I'd like to see where the numbers are derived.

Look at the charts in the figures in the patent. Of course I'm assuming the studies the figures are based on are legitimate, but given the credentials of the authors, Westphal et al, I trust the numbers: blood serum levels were even higher with Tween 80 than with HPMC/DOSS, about 5 times greater than micronized resveratrol. Whether this translates to "5 times as potent" is an open question, but I think it's the most potent resveratrol pill you can get without enrolling in a study.

FWIW, the patent cites good results with captisol (cyclodextrin) too, but the FDA apparently limits its use in a supplement.

I've also seen a patent using gelatin to make a water soluble resveratrol solution, but no figures for serum levels were given, and the source I consider less reliable than Westphal. Still, I may try some kitchen experiments with gelatin and powdered reseratrol.



Anyone know where to buy a locking capsule that could be digested into the Small or Large Intestine?
Or coat the RES capsule with a thick painting of HPMC or other time release material?
I have tried cyclodextrin need blood plasma tests?
Res must pass the liver.
You guys make me feel like a mad scientist. :)

#36 kismet

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Posted 07 March 2010 - 05:27 PM

Anyone know the reason for dosing with IP6?

IIRC they (longevinex?) also added vitamin D. I don't see a meaningful synergy other than the fact that all three supplements are promising (and actually I'd say: vitamin D > IP6 > resveratrol).
If there is potential for synergy, it's largely (and extremely) speculative and completely irrelevant.

#37 niner

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Posted 07 March 2010 - 06:56 PM

Anyone know where to buy a locking capsule that could be digested into the Small or Large Intestine?
Or coat the RES capsule with a thick painting of HPMC or other time release material?
I have tried cyclodextrin need blood plasma tests?

Why do you want to prevent resveratrol from being released in the stomach? I don't see a problem with that. Time release will hurt, not help. Resveratrol is rapidly metabolized as you know, and from dose escalation studies by Boocock et al. we can see that a bolus of up to about a gram is more efficient than smaller doses in terms of generating a free resveratrol AUC. This is consistent with the higher dose swamping some aspect of metabolism. As for cyclodextrin, you only need blood plasma tests if you want to know that it's working. If you can find a lab capable of running a proper pharmacokinetic study, it would be a great contribution to compare different dosage forms.

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#38 browser

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Posted 07 March 2010 - 07:05 PM

U of Wisconsin resveratrol researcher Richard Weindruch says that combination of IP6 and quercetin along with resveratrol in longevinex seems to have a synergistic effect. So at least he is explaining the reasoning why this may be so. But we don't know how close either are to SRT 501 or ovreall effectiveness.


Anyone know the reason for dosing with IP6?
This is a chelation supplement therefore possesses properties of Removing heavy metals.
I would be more inclined to believe IP6 could negate some the efficacy of Resveratrol?
Quercetin is a flavanoid and may be an enhancer taken along with Res in very small doses?


Why do you believe IP6 could negate some of the efficacy of RESV?

BTW, IMO, L0ngev1nex is doing a lot of speculation, IMO. The tiny amounts of D3, Quercetin and IP6 doing any good? B1ll Sard1 once again getting RESV dosing and homeopathy confused. :)




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