66 replies to this topic

[Mari]

Hello all. Sorry to bump an old thread but I've been speaking to another helpful researcher about this issue. Here are his comments:

(2) In the comments, Doug linked to a 2009 paper [1] showing that eating blueberries with milk reduced the absorption into the body of the blueberry phenolics caffeic and ferulic acid. Doug wanted to know if this should cause him to stop eating his blueberries with cream.

I don’t think so! The greatest benefits from these berry compounds seems to come in the gut, where they act as toxins to pathogens and help promote beneficial gut flora. So if milk reduces their absorption, it must be increasing their presence in the gut.

Entry of these compounds into the body might even be harmful. Peter recently discussed two potential mechanisms by which berry compounds might be harmful: inhibition of the enzyme CETP, like the drug anacetrapib; and antioxidant activity which, paradoxically, increases oxidative stress by downregulating the body’s own natural antioxidants.

It’s hard to beat the delightful taste of berries and cream. Luckily this study gives us no reason to avoid them!

http://perfecthealth...1#comment-16020

Any thoughts about this?

Wouldn't this (bolded phrase) constitute a reason to cut back on all antioxidants? That... doesn't seem right... does it?

No. I think there's a jcurve. At some levels, they act via hormesis and have a net positive effect. When the levels get too high though, you start going up on that jcurve in terms of mortality and disease. The only problem is finding the bottom.

[yoyo]

Many 'antioxidants' have significant benefits independent of redox. Plus not all antioxidants reduce oxidation in the same way, such as difference between plasma & lipid layers

[Florent Berthet]

It's been almost a year since the last message. Do we have more info on this subject? How do you guys handle the binding effect of casein on polyphenols? Does it even matter?

[PeopleOverCorporateProfit]

Yes, I'd like to know whether or not to continue having full fat yogurt with my berries.

[natro]

Ya I would also love an update on this... I'm currently often mixing my blueberries with whey protein shake. Would be really good to know if the protein in milk is the cause of this or is it the fat/carbs. I sometimes mix butter (so all fat and no carb/protein from dairy) in my meals so if it's a specific component it would be good to know when to mix in blueberries...

[Southpaw]

You can mix whey protein isolate with your berries, don't use milk though. Milk has the dominant protein casein in it. Casein is what's been found (IN THESE STUDIES) to bind to polyphenols and inhibit their benefits. If you drink tea and add milk (which contains the protein casein) it will prevent it's beneficial cardiovascular protection from happening.

Nothing more has been found on the subject as of this date. If I were you I would just drink tea/coffee straight with no added milk. That's if you want the health benefits I would also stop drinking milk unless it's organic as pastuerized milk has been found to have a lot of negative qualities.

-- Why milks bad -- http://www.naturalne...d_milk_raw.html
-- Why it isn't so bad (FDA's point of view) -- http://www.fda.gov/F...s/ucm079516.htm

Maybe you should weigh up whether you should even bother with milk if you don't have access to the organic milk. In this case dairy is still great to have. Just consume cheese, yoghurt, ghee, butter and cream.

Because of the nature of the studies and the way they were conducted I think there's always going to be two sides to the coin. There is a lot of variables that were left out. If they conducted the experiments from a different angle their findings might of found something completely different. I think they did some pretty solid studies though.

Me personally I love to have blueberries, goja berries and raspberries with Greek yoghurt. Based on the studies and everyone's opinions I probably shouldn't be doing that because I won't get the anti-oxidant boost from the berries. This is sad to hear... Now I get to decide whether to split up the berries and yoghurt or continue knowing full well it could be eliminating the anti-oxidant benefits from the berries. Life is hard!