56 replies to this topic

[humanhibernaculum]

Let me run this by you guys and let me know if I'm crazy.

A few months ago, a woman started working in the office next to mine. The doors to both our offices are always open. She smokes regularly, and since it's been cold, she does it while sitting in her car with the windows rolled up.

Other than the smell, I didn't think I was being bothered much, and I guess I'm getting used to it (the smell).

Anyway, I've been having trouble breathing lately (as in, the last month and a half). I do a lot of breathing exercises and meditation, and I've realized I've been short of breath during these. I've attributed this to my recent drop in aerobic exercise/rise in inaerobic, which started a couple of months ago, but I'm starting to question that.

Also, especially in the last week or so, I've started to wake up very irritable and very tired. I used to dip Copenhagen for a week or so every once in a while, and this is how I felt when I was doing that after a couple of days. My anxiety and depression (that haven't surfaced in a while) are also starting to get pretty bad. I've been feeling a slight withdrawal feeling on the weekends also, especially on Sunday. I work M-F, and am not around any smoke on Saturday-Sunday.

I know for a fact I go into withdrawal (however slight) very easily. When I used to drink regularly, a couple of cigarettes on Saturday would case obvious effects on my well-being on Monday. I'd be trapped in my shell of anxiety, depressive, and irritable. It took me a while to realize what was causing this, but it happened consistently, anytime I smoked a cigarette or two. Same thing with Copenhagen. Which is why I stopped both over a year ago.

She doesn't smoke in the office. I have been pushing this out of my thoughts for a while, because it just doesn't seem like third-hand smoke could provide enough nicotine to cause any of this withdrawal. I could see where it might cause irritation in my throat/lungs, and affect my breathing. Other than that, I admit, it sounds a little crazy, but all I can tell you is my symptoms. This is the only thing I could link it to. I'd like to hear "that's impossible" so I can stop worrying about it.

Anyone have similar experience?

[Forever21]

No but I think you should talk to an attorney and see if you have a case. He will advice you on what doctor to see. If you have a case, sue the chimney in your office and let us know.

[humanhibernaculum]

Okay, I'm not going to sue anyone. I'm going to assume you're being sarcastic?

I know this is a little ridiculous, but I also know there has been studies done that do show that "third-hand" smoke is still a danger. Also, I know my symptoms, and I can't think of another explanation.

[Forever21]

I'm actually quite serious. I have little love for smokers. If you can't go in that direction, I'm sure others will. Where I come from, Vancouver, there is a petition to ban smoking throughout the state.

In the meantime, I hope you consider eating black beans. Lots of it. If it becomes an issue in your office, say you'll consider dealing with flatulence if she quits smoking.

[Skötkonung]

Where I come from, Vancouver, there is a petition to ban smoking throughout the state.

I didn't realize Canada was thinking of doing a complete smoking ban? I would like to see a smoking ban on sidewalks at the very least, because second hand smoke is nearly unavoidable when walking any urban environment. The fact that second hand smoke exists at all is a testament to the power of addiction. Smokers believe their habit isn't harming them, or at the very least, isn't harming them very much. Therefor, how could trace odors or smoke from their cigarettes possibly harm you?

As it so happens, of all the drawbacks from living in a large city (the sounds of cars and trucks, shouting bar patrons, homeless people, etc) the second hand smoke has been the worst for me. And now I have a neighbor who smokes in their apartment and second hand smoke wafts into the hallways where I have to breath it when coming or going. I absolutely HATE it and look forward to a day when I can move away from this mess - once I am done with graduate school.

For the OP: I too dealt with a similar situation. A coworker of mine smoked and would carry the smell into the office with him. My solution was to talk nicely about it with him a few times, but it wasn't enough to instigate change. He eventually was laid off for something unrelated to the smoking, but if I had to continue sharing an office environment with him, I would probably have discussed the issue with my manager or HR representative.

Thirdhand smoke may not have much conclusive evidence showing it reduces lifespan, but I can't believe that it would be good for optimal health.

http://www.associate..._dangerous.html

If or when you decide to mention the smoking issue to a manger/HR, be prepared and come with a variety of documents showing its danger. It will help you seem concerned and informed.

[Forever21]

Where I come from, Vancouver, there is a petition to ban smoking throughout the state.

I didn't realize Canada was thinking of doing a complete smoking ban?

No, not Canada. Just the State of British Columbia.

There is already the following

• bans smoking in indoor public places and work places;
• bans smoking near public doorways, open windows, and air intakes; and
• limits the display and sales of tobacco and tobacco products.

Also ban on cellphone use while driving.

I await the day when Vancouver totally bans smoking.

We should at least start at the workplace. There should be a complete ban on smoking. Absolutely no smoking at the workplace, indoor, outdoor. And to have the smell of cigarette should be a reason for getting fired.

[maxwatt]

Where I come from, Vancouver, there is a petition to ban smoking throughout the state.

I didn't realize Canada was thinking of doing a complete smoking ban?

No, not Canada. Just the State of British Columbia.

There is already the following

• bans smoking in indoor public places and work places;
• bans smoking near public doorways, open windows, and air intakes; and
• limits the display and sales of tobacco and tobacco products.

Also ban on cellphone use while driving.

I await the day when Vancouver totally bans smoking.

We should at least start at the workplace. There should be a complete ban on smoking. Absolutely no smoking at the workplace, indoor, outdoor. And to have the smell of cigarette should be a reason for getting fired.

Reallly. I beieve smoking should be legal anywhere, as long as you do not exhale.

humanhibernaculum should see a doctor about his symptoms. It could be an allergy. Perhaps you boss would consider moving your office further from the smokestack.

[niner]

The symptoms could fit any of the usual swirling triad of allergy/viral infection/depression. These can cause many of the same symptoms and also feed off of each other. It could be low-level combinations of any or all. If I were in that situation, the smoke-reek would be pissing me off to some degree, and that would raise my general level of stress and grouchiness. It's certainly not good for you, even if it isn't physically harmful in the abstract. Talking to the boss about moving one or the other of you, or otherwise remediating the situation (less smoking, better cleanup after smoking, more closed doors, air purifiers, fire the addict... would be good. Probably the most effective approach would be to claim that you have an allergy, since you're having symptoms to that effect. "My doctor thinks it's an allergy..." The best office politics would probably be to talk to the smoker first, let her know it's nothing personal, but you need to try to get something done to clear up your symptoms. Unless the smoker is some kind of monster, she will probably do everything in her power to help if you play it right. There's always the possibility that your symptoms are really something else, but at least you get rid of the smell and that's worth a lot. My guess is that the smoker is stressing you out and that's aggravating your symptoms.

[humanhibernaculum]

Wow, I apologize. I've tried to start typing a reply a few times since Friday but keep getting pulled away.

Thanks to everyone for the replies. I actually forgot that I posted this question, because soon after I posted the second reply, I was moving my stuff across the building to another office. I asked one of our salesmen if I could switch offices with him (he's here at most 10 hrs/week) and he was fine with it. It's actually a quieter end of the building, so it's nice in that regard as well. No smoke smell or anything down here. It was easy as that. I guess that's one of the perks of working for a small business. It was a little awkward explaining to the smoker (although I have confronted her about it before, and she was helpful) that I'm literally moving across the building to get away from her (smell).

I guess I better keep in mind that I shouldn't have my traditional cigar at the office Christmas party this year. That would look pretty damn hypocritical, even though, in my opinion, one big blast of nicotine isn't much compared to everyday low-level exposure.

[humanhibernaculum]

By the way, that third hand smoke article was an interesting read. Hopefully that info makes itself known.

[TheFountain]

Wow, I apologize. I've tried to start typing a reply a few times since Friday but keep getting pulled away.

Thanks to everyone for the replies. I actually forgot that I posted this question, because soon after I posted the second reply, I was moving my stuff across the building to another office. I asked one of our salesmen if I could switch offices with him (he's here at most 10 hrs/week) and he was fine with it. It's actually a quieter end of the building, so it's nice in that regard as well. No smoke smell or anything down here. It was easy as that. I guess that's one of the perks of working for a small business. It was a little awkward explaining to the smoker (although I have confronted her about it before, and she was helpful) that I'm literally moving across the building to get away from her (smell).

I guess I better keep in mind that I shouldn't have my traditional cigar at the office Christmas party this year. That would look pretty damn hypocritical, even though, in my opinion, one big blast of nicotine isn't much compared to everyday low-level exposure.

Why would you subject yourself to cigar smoke at all? That's like saying 'an occasional puff of burning toxic waste is okay'! It really isn't.

[Luna]

Where I come from, Vancouver, there is a petition to ban smoking throughout the state.

I didn't realize Canada was thinking of doing a complete smoking ban?

No, not Canada. Just the State of British Columbia.

There is already the following

• bans smoking in indoor public places and work places;
• bans smoking near public doorways, open windows, and air intakes; and
• limits the display and sales of tobacco and tobacco products.

Also ban on cellphone use while driving.

I await the day when Vancouver totally bans smoking.

We should at least start at the workplace. There should be a complete ban on smoking. Absolutely no smoking at the workplace, indoor, outdoor. And to have the smell of cigarette should be a reason for getting fired.

Reallly. I beieve smoking should be legal anywhere, as long as you do not exhale.

humanhibernaculum should see a doctor about his symptoms. It could be an allergy. Perhaps you boss would consider moving your office further from the smokestack.

I think smoking should be banned everywhere.

Yesterday I was at university, almost EVERYONE smoked out of my class room.
When my class was in people smoked out and it all went into the room for the whole duration of the class, doors closed or not.

I suffer from the smell and possibly health problems it might induce because other people enjoy it.
I think it's not much different then violence, it should be banned as such.

[ajnast4r]

No but I think you should talk to an attorney and see if you have a case. He will advice you on what doctor to see. If you have a case, sue the chimney in your office and let us know.

horrible advice.

how about you just man up and go tell her she stinks and ask her if she could please keep her windows rolled down?

[platypus]

I didn't realize Canada was thinking of doing a complete smoking ban? I would like to see a smoking ban on sidewalks at the very least, because second hand smoke is nearly unavoidable when walking any urban environment.

That would be insanity before internal combustion engines have been banned.

[platypus]

We should at least start at the workplace. There should be a complete ban on smoking. Absolutely no smoking at the workplace, indoor, outdoor. And to have the smell of cigarette should be a reason for getting fired.

I thought life-extensionists would be liberal but I guess not...

[Forever21]

We should at least start at the workplace. There should be a complete ban on smoking. Absolutely no smoking at the workplace, indoor, outdoor. And to have the smell of cigarette should be a reason for getting fired.

I thought life-extensionists would be liberal but I guess not...

I like my stripper non-smoker please.

[Solarclimax]

You seem like you have the right attitude so i assume you won't be and "ASS" and sue her. Anyway, even if the smoke didn't have an effect, i personally wouldn't like to be around smoke as i don't smoke myself, so i know how you feel, personally i don't even like to be near people who drink anymore or even people who eat anything unhealthy, I'm a bit extreme in that sense. I would however let her know that she needs to keep it away from you, simple as that, no need to sue anyone, report it to the local news paper, launch a murder investigation ect.

[humanhibernaculum]

Why would you subject yourself to cigar smoke at all? That's like saying 'an occasional puff of burning toxic waste is okay'! It really isn't.

I think that a generally healthy life can handle a few indulgences. If it shaves a few minutes off my life (if such a small amount could possibly be calculated) then so be it. I'm not so much concerned with longevity as much as I am living decently healthy during my prime. I do feel a little guilty the day after smoking the cigar, but it's a very occasional pleasure I've allowed myself. I had one walking Beale St in August, I had one last Xmas office party, I'll have one walking the French Quarter next weekend. It's really an amazing feeling for me.

ajnast4r - I've talked to her. I "manned up" before I even posted this topic, as you can see in my post from yesterday. Would it be more manly to force her not to smoke? I can't really, morally or legally, do that.

[humanhibernaculum]

Why would you subject yourself to cigar smoke at all? That's like saying 'an occasional puff of burning toxic waste is okay'! It really isn't.

I think that a generally healthy life can handle a few indulgences. If it shaves a few minutes off my life (if such a small amount could possibly be calculated) then so be it. I'm not so much concerned with longevity as much as I am living decently healthy during my prime. I do feel a little guilty the day after smoking the cigar, but it's a very occasional pleasure I've allowed myself. I had one walking Beale St in August, I had one last Xmas office party, I'll have one walking the French Quarter next weekend. It's really an amazing feeling for me.

ajnast4r - I've talked to her. I "manned up" before I even posted this topic, as you can see in my post from yesterday. Would it be more manly to force her not to smoke? I can't really, morally or legally, do that.

I guess I should add that these cigars are enjoyed in "smoking environments". Walking down Beale or the French Quarter has always been done late at night, in bars that allow smoking, cigar shops, of at least not in the faces of others - not during the day, blowing smoke in the faces of babies and all that. Obviously I can't keep all the smoke in my lungs, away from everyone, but I'm conscientious about it.

I realize that I'm subjecting people to the same thing I'm complaining about, but I also realize that someone out late on Beale or Bourbon Sts. probably isn't as concerned as the general populous.

[Skötkonung]

I didn't realize Canada was thinking of doing a complete smoking ban? I would like to see a smoking ban on sidewalks at the very least, because second hand smoke is nearly unavoidable when walking any urban environment.

That would be insanity before internal combustion engines have been banned.

Do you know for a fact that side-stream smoke and second hand smoke is less (or equivalently) dangerous to car exhaust?

[Skötkonung]

We should at least start at the workplace. There should be a complete ban on smoking. Absolutely no smoking at the workplace, indoor, outdoor. And to have the smell of cigarette should be a reason for getting fired.

I thought life-extensionists would be liberal but I guess not...

Life extensionists want to lengthen their lives, not potentially shorten them by being exposed to additional toxic compounds.

[platypus]

I didn't realize Canada was thinking of doing a complete smoking ban? I would like to see a smoking ban on sidewalks at the very least, because second hand smoke is nearly unavoidable when walking any urban environment.

That would be insanity before internal combustion engines have been banned.

Do you know for a fact that side-stream smoke and second hand smoke is less (or equivalently) dangerous to car exhaust?

Nanoparticles from diesel-exhaust are especially bad for the health.

[platypus]

We should at least start at the workplace. There should be a complete ban on smoking. Absolutely no smoking at the workplace, indoor, outdoor. And to have the smell of cigarette should be a reason for getting fired.

I thought life-extensionists would be liberal but I guess not...

Life extensionists want to lengthen their lives, not potentially shorten them by being exposed to additional toxic compounds.

Well maybe they should live in the countryside then, living in a city close to other people is a conscious choice..

[Solarclimax]

I can understand Skotkonung's frustration, when you realise that we should all be about wanting to look after ourselves and each other and extending life, it can be a bit head doing when having to be part of a society that doesn't realise this. I counteract this thought to myself by thinking how lucky i am that i have what it takes to realise this and that it's unfortunate some people don't, a little cigarette smoke near me is a bit annoying i would probably brush it off, if someone blew smoke in my face i might flinch and accidentally slap them.

Edited by Solarclimax, 10 March 2010 - 10:02 PM.

[Skötkonung]

We should at least start at the workplace. There should be a complete ban on smoking. Absolutely no smoking at the workplace, indoor, outdoor. And to have the smell of cigarette should be a reason for getting fired.

I thought life-extensionists would be liberal but I guess not...

Life extensionists want to lengthen their lives, not potentially shorten them by being exposed to additional toxic compounds.

Well maybe they should live in the countryside then, living in a city close to other people is a conscious choice..

Or I can change my current environment to be a healthier one and the people who want to smoke can go sit in a confined area and pollute themselves Letting the polluting and ignorant people of the world continue on with their business uninterrupted is also a conscious choice.

I didn't realize Canada was thinking of doing a complete smoking ban? I would like to see a smoking ban on sidewalks at the very least, because second hand smoke is nearly unavoidable when walking any urban environment.

That would be insanity before internal combustion engines have been banned.

Do you know for a fact that side-stream smoke and second hand smoke is less (or equivalently) dangerous to car exhaust?

Nanoparticles from diesel-exhaust are especially bad for the health.

I can't change the current state of affairs for automobile / truck power throughout the world (although my purchasing decision certainly do help in some limited degree), but I can influence the local laws for regulating where / how people smoke. A lot of other people feel this way as well, and that is why the areas where one can smoke, along with the price of cigarettes, will continue to make smoking prohibitively difficult. And back to your point about internal combustion engines, many urban areas are creating pedestrian only zones for the sake of reducing air pollution.

Edited by Skotkonung, 10 March 2010 - 10:49 PM.

[TheFountain]

Why would you subject yourself to cigar smoke at all? That's like saying 'an occasional puff of burning toxic waste is okay'! It really isn't.

I think that a generally healthy life can handle a few indulgences. If it shaves a few minutes off my life (if such a small amount could possibly be calculated) then so be it. I'm not so much concerned with longevity as much as I am living decently healthy during my prime. I do feel a little guilty the day after smoking the cigar, but it's a very occasional pleasure I've allowed myself. I had one walking Beale St in August, I had one last Xmas office party, I'll have one walking the French Quarter next weekend. It's really an amazing feeling for me.

ajnast4r - I've talked to her. I "manned up" before I even posted this topic, as you can see in my post from yesterday. Would it be more manly to force her not to smoke? I can't really, morally or legally, do that.

That's one disgusting 'pleasure'. Personally the smell of cigar and cigarette smoke sickens me immediately. And that is just the second hand smoke!

[TheFountain]

Anyway, I was essentially double teamed by two people yesterday for reminding my mother not to smoke around me. Both my mother and my brother yelled over my reasoning and presumed themselves right in their stance because they have the ability to yell over someone. The reasoning once again was that it is 'her house' and she has a right to do what she wants in it. My reasoning was that my body is MY house and nobody has the right to blow smoke into its windows! Perhaps someone can explain the following to me. I have not been working as much lately since my job laid off a few people. They cut my hours in the process. My brother used the reasoning that because I am 'not really working' all that much I have no right to defend myself and my right to healthy lungs and that I should 'buck up' and accept it. Of course I told him that was bullshit in so many words and in a reasoned tone but I am really perplexed by that reasoning. How does not wanting to inhale second hand smoke have anything at all to do with my employment situation? Whether I am actively working or not? It doesn't make any sense at all to me. And I need some advice on how to deal with people who essentially think yelling over you makes them right and you wrong with regard to second hand smoke. Basically I feel as if they are using intimidation against me to try and lessen my position. It reminds me of the way this highschool bully use to speak to my friends. It is extremely childish and unevolved thinking. How would you guys deal with it? And what would you do if it came to them physically trying to shut you down by actually pushing you? How would you react?

[platypus]

I can't change the current state of affairs for automobile / truck power throughout the world (although my purchasing decision certainly do help in some limited degree), but I can influence the local laws for regulating where / how people smoke. A lot of other people feel this way as well, and that is why the areas where one can smoke, along with the price of cigarettes, will continue to make smoking prohibitively difficult. And back to your point about internal combustion engines, many urban areas are creating pedestrian only zones for the sake of reducing air pollution.

The work towards making cigarettes illegal instead of trying to ban the usage of a legal substance everywhere. Sweden is the most notorious nanny-state in the world so I would not be that surprised if smoking was banned there...

Edited by platypus, 11 March 2010 - 02:18 PM.

[Solarclimax]

@ TheFountain.
Seems you have little choice but to put up with it. Try and keep as much distance as you can from you and the smoke/do things to get rid of any smoke you can't avoid contact with.
Don't try and argue any point with them as they already know everything, make indirect suggestions that will help them realise they are wrong. But in most cases said ignorance is usually associated with people who you can't get much sense out of. Think of everything in terms of is me trying to reason with them going to get me any further forward. If the answer is no then i wouldn't waste my breath. Or do what i did, -Leave- It sucks when morons have some type of authority over us.
If it gets physical then that depends, Not sure on your age if you're younger it's hard, don't you have anyone you can turn to to have a word with them ?

Edited by Solarclimax, 11 March 2010 - 05:07 PM.

[Solarclimax]

Bottom line of this thread... If people want to smoke that's up to them, and vice versa they should respect that some people don't like to be around smoke and so should try and keep it confined. My neighbours smoke weed, i can smell it coming from their house, doesn't bother me 1 bit. It's not like i'm stood next to them inhaling from a bong or anything. They are good hard working people, most people would never think they smoke weed. But they don't exactly go around blowing it in anyones face so its no biggy. The exhaust fumes from cars going past the house are probably more harmfull.

Edited by Solarclimax, 11 March 2010 - 05:21 PM.