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Maximizing Resveratrol Effectiveness Redux


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#31 bixbyte

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Posted 27 March 2010 - 10:14 PM

Thanks, I really appreciate your detailed posting here. It is helpful. When I was taking higher doses of Resveratrol with my regimen I got that "kite" feeling too. Interesting at times, but to me it was indicative of excessive dosing and prompts me to cut dose. In your case, however, high dosing is exactly what may be needed, and hopefully, for a short period. When do you plan on cutting doses? How are your recent test results doing? Is there remission yet? PSA levels?


My recent PSA was up by 27%. That's where it was 6 months ago. I attribute this to my following Bill Sard1's suggestion to take <<<OMG, the megadosing!!!>>> 8 capsules of L0ngev1nex a day, which he supplied. It's too early for another PSA with high dosing (3+ grams of RESV in the form of Nitro). I just recently cut out the Quercetin (in the form of 3 grams of MCT Quercetin plus 9 grams of Jarrow Quercetin) with the 3 grams of Nitro.

For safety sake and based on the research report on Resveratrol acting as a pro-oxidant in the morning and an anti-oxidant in the evening, I'm taking my other supplements like Pom capsules, Life Extension Mix, Blueberry Extract and the like in the evening. I take Resveratrol bucally only before noon because of the impact Resveratrol has on the circadian genes. The 100 mg. sublingual pure Testosterone I take twice a day (I take loads of DIM and other things to prevent E2 and DHT creation) appears to be working especially well the more I increase the amount of Resveratrol.

When will I go to a lower dose of Resveratrol? I'm going to take a run of 2-3 months like this, expect my PSA to plummet, then take a breather and cut back to say 1 gram of Nitro or micronized in whey protein isolate.


What Does This New England Journal of Medicine Paper Mean for Users of Finesteride 1 mg (Propecia®)?

The Prostate Cancer Prevention Trial reported in the July 17, 2003, issue of The New England Journal of Medicine studied the effect of finasteride 5 mg (Proscar®) on the development of prostate cancer:

over a 7-year period, in a randomized, placebo-controlled trial ending in February, 2003, in 18,882 men aged 55 or older, with normal prostates and PSA values were given finasteride to determine if a drug prescribed to millions of men to treat prostate gland enlargement can prevent or delay the appearance of prostate cancer in a population most susceptible to development of prostate cancer.
Headline results of the study:

Overall prevalence of prostate cancer in finasteride-treated men was reduced by 24.8% from the prevalence normally expected in men of this age and medical condition, indicating that finasteride 5mg (Proscar®) is effective in preventing or delaying the appearance of prostate cancer.

In men who developed prostate cancer during the study, finasteride 5 mg was associated with a small increased risk for developing a high-malignancy cancer. The reason for this small increased risk is not understood.

Meaning of the study for users of finasteride 1 mg (Propecia®):

Results of the study cannot be generalized from finasteride 5 g (Proscar®) used to treat prostate enlargement to the lower-dose finasteride 1 mg (Propecia®) used to treat hair loss due to androgenetic alopecia. Safety tests of Propecia® have been accepted by the Food and Drug Administration as an indication of safety for use in treating hair loss.
Introduction and Background

On July 17, 2003, the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine published “The Influence of Finasteride on the Development of Prostate Cancer”, a paper reporting the results of a seven-year, multi-center clinical trial. The purpose of the trial was to test the hypothesis that Proscar®, a 5 milligram formulation of finasteride used to treat enlargement of the prostate gland, might reduce risk for prostate cancer—a major cancer risk for men, especially for men of older age.

The “good news and bad news” findings of the study were widely reported in the media, and frequently misreported or misinterpreted. While the study was conducted with the 5 milligram formulation of finasteride (Proscar®), and was concerned only with prostate cancer prevention, the study results raised questions among patients as well as professionals regarding the use of finasteride 1 mg (Propecia®) for treatment of hair loss. The ISHRS believes that questions about the study results in relation to use of finasteride 1 mg (Propecia®) should be asked, but that questions as well as answers should be based upon (1) the facts as reported by the investigators, and (2) interpretation of the study results as reported by the investigators.
Why the Study Was Conducted

The androgenic (male) hormone testosterone and its more potent metabolite dihydrotestosterone are known to influence abnormal growth of tissue in the prostate gland. When abnormal growth is benign, the result is prostate enlargement (hypertrophy) and associated symptoms such as urinary retention. When the abnormal growth is malignant, the result is prostate cancer.

The drug finasteride inhibits the enzyme that converts testosterone into dihydrotestosterone . This reduces the amount of dihydrotestosterone in the body and the amount available to act on prostate tissue. In a 5 milligram formulation, finasteride (Proscar®) is prescribed to treat benign prostate enlargement.

The investigators designed the study to find out - would finasteride 5 mg (Proscar®), shown to be effective in treating benign prostate enlargement, also be effective in preventing or delaying the appearance of malignant growth of prostate tissue (prostate cancer)?

Androgenic hormones have many effects on many different tissues and organs, among them the hair follicle. Dihydrotestosterone has a potent role in causing hair loss due to androgenetic alopecia (See About hair loss for more information). Finasteride in a 1 milligram formulation (Propecia®) is prescribed as a treatment for hair loss. See Nonsurgical hair loss treatment options for more information.
Proscar® and Propecia®: Same Drug, Different Uses

It is important to note that only the effect of finasteride 5 mg (Proscar®) was studied. Proscar® is widely prescribed for its approved use in treating benign prostate enlargement. Lower-dose finasteride 1 mg (Propecia®), widely prescribed to treat hair loss due to androgenetic alopecia, was not used and was not discussed by the investigators. Some newspaper, TV and Web stories have not made the distinction, contributing to confusion about the study results.
The Study Protocol: Who Was Studied for How Long

The Prostate Cancer Prevention Trial was a prospective, randomized, placebo-controlled study—the “gold standard” for obtaining objective results. The study was carried out at 10 medical centers over a seven-year period ending in February, 2003.

Randomized into the study were 18,882 men, age 55 or older, who had normal prostates on physical examination and prostate-specific antigen (PSA) levels of 3.0 ng/ml or lower, indicating no benign or malignant enlargement. Half of the men received finasteride 5 mg (Proscar®) every day, and half received non-active placebo every day over the seven years of the study. Medical and laboratory examinations were performed at regular intervals, and prostate biopsy performed as indicated by results of these examinations. All men were also offered a prostate biopsy at the end of the study. The investigators assumed that 60% of the men either would have an interim diagnosis of prostate cancer during the study, or would have an end-of-study biopsy to detect or rule out the presence of cancer.
Results of the Study

The study was ended in February, 2003, 15 months early, when investigators found that all study objectives had been met.




http://www.ishrs.org...tate-cancer.htm

#32 browser

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 12:33 AM

Resveratrol won't dissolve in the oil. Looks like it's going to be down a couple of aspirins, blend Vitamin C and Curcumin into olive oil, down those then down a whey protein isolate/micronized Resveratrol shake.

I tried to dissolve resveratrol in olive oil a long time ago, and it didn't work for me either, though I didn't try very hard. It goes into 95% ethanol pretty easily. (Readily available in states that don't outlaw Everclear.) Resveratrol is not profoundly hydrophobic; it has 3 hydroxyls after all. You might have better luck with something a little less hydrophobic than olive oil. Maybe coconut oil? You could also try heating the oil, and could try sonication if you have a sonicator. Maybe a mix of ethanol and an oil, or dissolve in ethanol first, then drip into oil.


Solubility is limited, but it does dissolve. Slightly heating it and stirring for a long, long time are needed. A magnetic lab stirrer is recommended.


My Curcumin came and I hadn't bought a blender yet to blend the Curcumin into olive oil, add some Vitamin C, then finally blend in Resveratrol. This morning I took 20 mg. Bioperine and two adult aspirins. Waited 20 minutes. During the 20 minutes I dissolved 12 grams of Curcumin into hot coconut milk. It seemed to dissolve, but it's hard to tell with coconut milk. I chilled the solution then added 5 grams of Resveratrol non-micronized powder and a few dabs of liposomal Vitamin C. The Resveratrol seemed to dissolve. Downed 3 grams of Nitro 250 with the coconut milk mixture. I've been doing buccal Resveratrol and have been getting light headed and high as a kite. No other meds or supplements. Am not hungry for breakfast and will probably have to take a late lunch for lack of appetite. This is /not/ a placebo effect.


I have to say that the mixture sounds vile - what was the taste like? Please keep us all posted on how this goes - I for one am very interested in this.


It's not all that bad. Curcumin isn't that bad tasting.

I mixed up a new batch for the next two days:

Melted 4 Tbs coconut oil in microwave for 30 seconds. Added 24 grams Curcumin, a drop or two of liposomal Vitamin C, 20 mg. Bioperine. Whirled for a few minutes. Added 2 tablespoons of coconut milk. Whirled for 20 minutes. Added 10 grams non-micronized Resveratrol, whirled for 5 minutes, divided into two glasses, put in refrigerator. I'll take 10 mg. Biperine and two adult aspirin, wait for 20 minutes, down 3 grams Nitro with the mixture. I'm going to the store to get a more powerful blender and I'm going to blend my next batch for 60+ minutes. This is sounding a lot like LongVida Curcumin to me. I'll be dipping non-micronized Resveratrol until noon.

I might not take the Nitro one morning and see if I get the same buzz. If I do, I will decide I have my own bio-available Resveratrol at a whole lot less. I get my Resveratrol for $1 a gram.

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#33 2tender

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 01:15 AM

Resveratrol won't dissolve in the oil. Looks like it's going to be down a couple of aspirins, blend Vitamin C and Curcumin into olive oil, down those then down a whey protein isolate/micronized Resveratrol shake.

I tried to dissolve resveratrol in olive oil a long time ago, and it didn't work for me either, though I didn't try very hard. It goes into 95% ethanol pretty easily. (Readily available in states that don't outlaw Everclear.) Resveratrol is not profoundly hydrophobic; it has 3 hydroxyls after all. You might have better luck with something a little less hydrophobic than olive oil. Maybe coconut oil? You could also try heating the oil, and could try sonication if you have a sonicator. Maybe a mix of ethanol and an oil, or dissolve in ethanol first, then drip into oil.


Solubility is limited, but it does dissolve. Slightly heating it and stirring for a long, long time are needed. A magnetic lab stirrer is recommended.


My Curcumin came and I hadn't bought a blender yet to blend the Curcumin into olive oil, add some Vitamin C, then finally blend in Resveratrol. This morning I took 20 mg. Bioperine and two adult aspirins. Waited 20 minutes. During the 20 minutes I dissolved 12 grams of Curcumin into hot coconut milk. It seemed to dissolve, but it's hard to tell with coconut milk. I chilled the solution then added 5 grams of Resveratrol non-micronized powder and a few dabs of liposomal Vitamin C. The Resveratrol seemed to dissolve. Downed 3 grams of Nitro 250 with the coconut milk mixture. I've been doing buccal Resveratrol and have been getting light headed and high as a kite. No other meds or supplements. Am not hungry for breakfast and will probably have to take a late lunch for lack of appetite. This is /not/ a placebo effect.


I have to say that the mixture sounds vile - what was the taste like? Please keep us all posted on how this goes - I for one am very interested in this.


It's not all that bad. Curcumin isn't that bad tasting.

I mixed up a new batch for the next two days:

Melted 4 Tbs coconut oil in microwave for 30 seconds. Added 24 grams Curcumin, a drop or two of liposomal Vitamin C, 20 mg. Bioperine. Whirled for a few minutes. Added 2 tablespoons of coconut milk. Whirled for 20 minutes. Added 10 grams non-micronized Resveratrol, whirled for 5 minutes, divided into two glasses, put in refrigerator. I'll take 10 mg. Biperine and two adult aspirin, wait for 20 minutes, down 3 grams Nitro with the mixture. I'm going to the store to get a more powerful blender and I'm going to blend my next batch for 60+ minutes. This is sounding a lot like LongVida Curcumin to me. I'll be dipping non-micronized Resveratrol until noon.

I might not take the Nitro one morning and see if I get the same buzz. If I do, I will decide I have my own bio-available Resveratrol at a whole lot less. I get my Resveratrol for $1 a gram.


Why would you blend it for 60+ minutes?

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#34 browser

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 01:52 AM

Resveratrol won't dissolve in the oil. Looks like it's going to be down a couple of aspirins, blend Vitamin C and Curcumin into olive oil, down those then down a whey protein isolate/micronized Resveratrol shake.

I tried to dissolve resveratrol in olive oil a long time ago, and it didn't work for me either, though I didn't try very hard. It goes into 95% ethanol pretty easily. (Readily available in states that don't outlaw Everclear.) Resveratrol is not profoundly hydrophobic; it has 3 hydroxyls after all. You might have better luck with something a little less hydrophobic than olive oil. Maybe coconut oil? You could also try heating the oil, and could try sonication if you have a sonicator. Maybe a mix of ethanol and an oil, or dissolve in ethanol first, then drip into oil.


Solubility is limited, but it does dissolve. Slightly heating it and stirring for a long, long time are needed. A magnetic lab stirrer is recommended.


My Curcumin came and I hadn't bought a blender yet to blend the Curcumin into olive oil, add some Vitamin C, then finally blend in Resveratrol. This morning I took 20 mg. Bioperine and two adult aspirins. Waited 20 minutes. During the 20 minutes I dissolved 12 grams of Curcumin into hot coconut milk. It seemed to dissolve, but it's hard to tell with coconut milk. I chilled the solution then added 5 grams of Resveratrol non-micronized powder and a few dabs of liposomal Vitamin C. The Resveratrol seemed to dissolve. Downed 3 grams of Nitro 250 with the coconut milk mixture. I've been doing buccal Resveratrol and have been getting light headed and high as a kite. No other meds or supplements. Am not hungry for breakfast and will probably have to take a late lunch for lack of appetite. This is /not/ a placebo effect.


I have to say that the mixture sounds vile - what was the taste like? Please keep us all posted on how this goes - I for one am very interested in this.


It's not all that bad. Curcumin isn't that bad tasting.

I mixed up a new batch for the next two days:

Melted 4 Tbs coconut oil in microwave for 30 seconds. Added 24 grams Curcumin, a drop or two of liposomal Vitamin C, 20 mg. Bioperine. Whirled for a few minutes. Added 2 tablespoons of coconut milk. Whirled for 20 minutes. Added 10 grams non-micronized Resveratrol, whirled for 5 minutes, divided into two glasses, put in refrigerator. I'll take 10 mg. Biperine and two adult aspirin, wait for 20 minutes, down 3 grams Nitro with the mixture. I'm going to the store to get a more powerful blender and I'm going to blend my next batch for 60+ minutes. This is sounding a lot like LongVida Curcumin to me. I'll be dipping non-micronized Resveratrol until noon.

I might not take the Nitro one morning and see if I get the same buzz. If I do, I will decide I have my own bio-available Resveratrol at a whole lot less. I get my Resveratrol for $1 a gram.


Why would you blend it for 60+ minutes?


I'm trying to micronize the oil droplets into the water phase, apparently the way LongVida does with their very bio-available Curcumin.

BTW, I looked in the refrigerator. The two glasses of solution are now two glasses of solid yellow stuff. I'll have to warm in the microwave for a few seconds tomorrow morning so I can down the Curcumin, Vitamin C, Bioperine, Resveratrol ??solution??.

#35 niner

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 02:25 AM

BTW, I looked in the refrigerator. The two glasses of solution are now two glasses of solid yellow stuff. I'll have to warm in the microwave for a few seconds tomorrow morning so I can down the Curcumin, Vitamin C, Bioperine, Resveratrol ??solution??.

Probably more of an emulsion than a solution. A solution would be clear (transparent) though it could be colored. I would try adding the resveratrol before the coconut milk, at the same time as the curcumin. That will give the resveratrol a chance to dissolve in the lipid phase. Assuming it formed micelles or small globules of some sort, it would be interesting to know how stable they are to these cooling and heating cycles.

#36 tlm884

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 06:38 AM

BTW, I looked in the refrigerator. The two glasses of solution are now two glasses of solid yellow stuff. I'll have to warm in the microwave for a few seconds tomorrow morning so I can down the Curcumin, Vitamin C, Bioperine, Resveratrol ??solution??.

Probably more of an emulsion than a solution. A solution would be clear (transparent) though it could be colored. I would try adding the resveratrol before the coconut milk, at the same time as the curcumin. That will give the resveratrol a chance to dissolve in the lipid phase. Assuming it formed micelles or small globules of some sort, it would be interesting to know how stable they are to these cooling and heating cycles.


Throwing in some lecithin granules and dissolving them will allow the solution to emulsify so all the phases are disolved in the same "area"

#37 browser

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 02:44 PM

Sounds good. Is the "T" medication called "Striant" ? Its administrated by attaching it to the upper gumline? What do you think of that medication? I agree that Resveratrol and androgens mix well, so do a lot of other guys.


No. It was called Peoples Pharmacy, now it's called Life Extension Pharmacy. It's compounded pure Testosterone that's placed under the tongue. I've been swishing it around lately to get buccal delivery as well. I asked the doctor if I could try troche delivery. I'm awaiting my new set of troches from LEF's pharmacy. LEF offers the cheapest compounding pharmacy I've seen.

BTW, just placed an order for 100 grams pharmaceutical grade DCA. That's a hit or miss thing. Perhaps it'll hit in my case.

#38 browser

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 02:47 PM

BTW, I looked in the refrigerator. The two glasses of solution are now two glasses of solid yellow stuff. I'll have to warm in the microwave for a few seconds tomorrow morning so I can down the Curcumin, Vitamin C, Bioperine, Resveratrol ??solution??.

Probably more of an emulsion than a solution. A solution would be clear (transparent) though it could be colored. I would try adding the resveratrol before the coconut milk, at the same time as the curcumin. That will give the resveratrol a chance to dissolve in the lipid phase. Assuming it formed micelles or small globules of some sort, it would be interesting to know how stable they are to these cooling and heating cycles.


Thanks for the suggestion. I'll add the Resveratrol into the coconut oil. I'm also not going to refrigerate my next batch. Yes, it's an emulsion. But hopefully with the Curcumin and Resveratrol in solution with the coconut oil.

#39 hmm

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 03:12 PM

Sounds good. Is the "T" medication called "Striant" ? Its administrated by attaching it to the upper gumline? What do you think of that medication? I agree that Resveratrol and androgens mix well, so do a lot of other guys.


No. It was called Peoples Pharmacy, now it's called Life Extension Pharmacy. It's compounded pure Testosterone that's placed under the tongue. I've been swishing it around lately to get buccal delivery as well. I asked the doctor if I could try troche delivery. I'm awaiting my new set of troches from LEF's pharmacy. LEF offers the cheapest compounding pharmacy I've seen.

BTW, just placed an order for 100 grams pharmaceutical grade DCA. That's a hit or miss thing. Perhaps it'll hit in my case.


Hey Browser, I'm curious about the testosterone. How long have you been taking it and what are its effects on you so far?

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#40 browser

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 04:04 PM

BTW, I looked in the refrigerator. The two glasses of solution are now two glasses of solid yellow stuff. I'll have to warm in the microwave for a few seconds tomorrow morning so I can down the Curcumin, Vitamin C, Bioperine, Resveratrol ??solution??.

Probably more of an emulsion than a solution. A solution would be clear (transparent) though it could be colored. I would try adding the resveratrol before the coconut milk, at the same time as the curcumin. That will give the resveratrol a chance to dissolve in the lipid phase. Assuming it formed micelles or small globules of some sort, it would be interesting to know how stable they are to these cooling and heating cycles.


Throwing in some lecithin granules and dissolving them will allow the solution to emulsify so all the phases are disolved in the same "area"


Do I really want an emulsion? The patent for LongVida, one of the bio-available Curcumins talks about creating micelles. They actually separate the micelles from the water phase, as far as I can tell.

#41 browser

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 04:41 PM

Sounds good. Is the "T" medication called "Striant" ? Its administrated by attaching it to the upper gumline? What do you think of that medication? I agree that Resveratrol and androgens mix well, so do a lot of other guys.


No. It was called Peoples Pharmacy, now it's called Life Extension Pharmacy. It's compounded pure Testosterone that's placed under the tongue. I've been swishing it around lately to get buccal delivery as well. I asked the doctor if I could try troche delivery. I'm awaiting my new set of troches from LEF's pharmacy. LEF offers the cheapest compounding pharmacy I've seen.

BTW, just placed an order for 100 grams pharmaceutical grade DCA. That's a hit or miss thing. Perhaps it'll hit in my case.


Hey Browser, I'm curious about the testosterone. How long have you been taking it and what are its effects on you so far?


I had been on Quercetin Plus for 3 months. That's an "herbal" supplement perhaps containing DES. Whatever, it destroys your ability to produce T. My doctor told me to get off of the Q+ and gave me T while I was stopping the Q+ to prevent the development of androgen independent PCa cells. I've been on it ever since, since around April 15th of 2009. The effects were subtle and gradual. They were also compounded with such things as EDTA and DMSA chelation. First I noticed more interest in life and less brain fog. Then it was pretty obvious I was getting more erections. My libido increased. My physical strength and endurance increased somewhat. Over time I became a lot more interested in life, taking on new projects, getting loads of exercise. What happened next is muddled. I went to a sleep doctor. I was taking enough sleep medication to depress my breathing and I have hemolytic anemia from some unknown cause. So the doctor not only prescribed CPAP but also supplemental O2 to feed into the CPAP. Amazing things happened after that. I drank less caffeine in the form of coffee. The traditional drink where I live, in Texas, is iced tea, so I still drink a bunch of that. I have been shedding sleep medication. My mood has improved, my strength has markedly improved, my sex drive has gone into overdrive. Is that from getting enough sleep now? Perhaps, perhaps the sleep allows the T to do its work better. I used to struggle with 5 gallon bottles of purified water. Had to put the filled bottle into a shopping cart and wheel it to the car, where it was a struggle to get it into the car. Getting the bottle into the house was a struggle and left me tired and winded. Now I carry the filled bottle up to 100 yards to the car, sans shopping cart. I'm thinking of getting a second bottle as I don't think I'll have a problem carry two filled bottles. Has high dose Resveratrol helped? Yes. The Resveratrol is making me sleep even more deeply and for the moment I'm having problems getting fully awake in the morning. I think I'll have to shed even more sleep meds and might have to cut down on the 40 mg. Melatonin I'm taking at night for my PCa. Has the Resveratrol made me stronger physically? Probably. Is there T involved there? Yes, of course.

I am taking a bio-identical cream prescribed by my doctor which amongst other things prevents conversion of T to DHT and E1/E2. A low T:E2 ratio appears to be the switch which turns docile PCa cells (which even 20 year olds have) into thriving and perhaps aggressive PCa cells. My doctor is not afraid of T nor am I. When I mention T and PCa in a PCa forum, I immediately get horrified reactions.

#42 david ellis

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 07:07 PM

I am taking a bio-identical cream prescribed by my doctor which amongst other things prevents conversion of T to DHT and E1/E2. A low T:E2 ratio appears to be the switch which turns docile PCa cells (which even 20 year olds have) into thriving and perhaps aggressive PCa cells. My doctor is not afraid of T nor am I. When I mention T and PCa in a PCa forum, I immediately get horrified reactions.

I am using LEF testosterone cream too. What are you getting in the prescription to prevent conversion to DHT and E1/E2?

Edited by david ellis, 28 March 2010 - 07:10 PM.


#43 browser

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 01:14 AM

I am taking a bio-identical cream prescribed by my doctor which amongst other things prevents conversion of T to DHT and E1/E2. A low T:E2 ratio appears to be the switch which turns docile PCa cells (which even 20 year olds have) into thriving and perhaps aggressive PCa cells. My doctor is not afraid of T nor am I. When I mention T and PCa in a PCa forum, I immediately get horrified reactions.

I am using LEF testosterone cream too. What are you getting in the prescription to prevent conversion to DHT and E1/E2?


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#44 blackbox

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 01:57 AM

sigh... i couldn't help overhear but resveratrol+curcumin+bioperine will inhibit P450 too much that it can't be healthy for you.....

#45 niner

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 02:42 AM

sigh... i couldn't help overhear but resveratrol+curcumin+bioperine will inhibit P450 too much that it can't be healthy for you.....

What's the evidence for this?

#46 niner

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 02:47 AM

I had been on Quercetin Plus for 3 months. That's an "herbal" supplement perhaps containing DES. Whatever, it destroys your ability to produce T. My doctor told me to get off of the Q+ and gave me T while I was stopping the Q+ to prevent the development of androgen independent PCa cells.

Would you happen to know what your T level was at the time? I'm curious as to what the danger level is in terms of developing androgen independent PCa cells.

I am taking a bio-identical cream prescribed by my doctor which amongst other things prevents conversion of T to DHT and E1/E2. A low T:E2 ratio appears to be the switch which turns docile PCa cells (which even 20 year olds have) into thriving and perhaps aggressive PCa cells. My doctor is not afraid of T nor am I. When I mention T and PCa in a PCa forum, I immediately get horrified reactions.

Do you know of any papers or literature on the effect of T:E2 ratio?

#47 browser

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 03:14 AM

BTW, I looked in the refrigerator. The two glasses of solution are now two glasses of solid yellow stuff. I'll have to warm in the microwave for a few seconds tomorrow morning so I can down the Curcumin, Vitamin C, Bioperine, Resveratrol ??solution??.

Probably more of an emulsion than a solution. A solution would be clear (transparent) though it could be colored. I would try adding the resveratrol before the coconut milk, at the same time as the curcumin. That will give the resveratrol a chance to dissolve in the lipid phase. Assuming it formed micelles or small globules of some sort, it would be interesting to know how stable they are to these cooling and heating cycles.


Throwing in some lecithin granules and dissolving them will allow the solution to emulsify so all the phases are disolved in the same "area"


I bought a super powerful blender with small blending chambers. Just right for mixing 4 days' worth of Resveratrol, Curcumin, Vitamin C, Aspirin, Bioperine, Lecithin, coconut oil and coconut milk. I am very happy with the product and I'm discontinuing my expensive orders with Revgenetics. Regular old Resveratrol 98% powder and Curcumin dispersed into the coconut oil, which I whirled with aspirin, Bioperine for 30 minutes. I then added 5 grams Lecithin and coconut milk and whirled another 30 minutes. I have a very nice emulsion that is thick but pours. I am satisfied that this will make for highly bio-available Curcumin and Resveratrol.

I'm going to be able to take 10 grams of Resveratrol daily this way.

Thanks for the suggestion of adding Lecithin.

#48 blackbox

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 05:29 AM

sigh... i couldn't help overhear but resveratrol+curcumin+bioperine will inhibit P450 too much that it can't be healthy for you.....

What's the evidence for this?


You should know better as you are a 'navigator'. In addition, you should have cautioned consumption of such dangerous combination in the first place.

#49 Logan

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 06:43 AM

sigh... i couldn't help overhear but resveratrol+curcumin+bioperine will inhibit P450 too much that it can't be healthy for you.....

What's the evidence for this?


You should know better as you are a 'navigator'. In addition, you should have cautioned consumption of such dangerous combination in the first place.


Why don't you stop with your childish attitude and just give the fucking evidence jack ass. You sound like your 15 years old and in some petty little fight with your first girlfriend. Grow the fuck up and give the fucking evidence douchebag.

Edited by morganator, 29 March 2010 - 06:48 AM.


#50 bacopa

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 06:53 AM

Morgan don't beat around the bush, why not tell him your true opinion of him? You're always "so sensitive", get some balls man ;)

Edited by dfowler, 29 March 2010 - 06:53 AM.


#51 2tender

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 03:54 PM

I agree that prolonged inhibtion, can be dangerous, but this man is under a Physicians care, he seems to be well versed in supplementing, and this is a case of cancer, that may very well be nipped in the bud by his radical regimen. Chemotherapy is extremely toxic and in a similar situation, most posters here would opt for the supplemental approach. I think Niner's objections are reasonable and he wouldnt be a navigator here, if he wasnt.

#52 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 03:51 PM

:) morganator

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 30 March 2010 - 03:51 PM.


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Posted 30 March 2010 - 04:59 PM

I had been on Quercetin Plus for 3 months. That's an "herbal" supplement perhaps containing DES. Whatever, it destroys your ability to produce T. My doctor told me to get off of the Q+ and gave me T while I was stopping the Q+ to prevent the development of androgen independent PCa cells.

Would you happen to know what your T level was at the time? I'm curious as to what the danger level is in terms of developing androgen independent PCa cells.

I am taking a bio-identical cream prescribed by my doctor which amongst other things prevents conversion of T to DHT and E1/E2. A low T:E2 ratio appears to be the switch which turns docile PCa cells (which even 20 year olds have) into thriving and perhaps aggressive PCa cells. My doctor is not afraid of T nor am I. When I mention T and PCa in a PCa forum, I immediately get horrified reactions.

Do you know of any papers or literature on the effect of T:E2 ratio?


T level at the time was 90 pg/ml (Saliva). My doctor told me the desired target should be 250-400 pg/ml. My Estradiol level was 1.35 pg/ml (Saliva). My doctor's target is E2 < 1 pg/ml (Saliva).

With respect to developing androgen independent PCa cells. I was told by fellow PCa sufferers who read PubMed instead of the daily newspaper, that I needed to raise my T and lower my Es before getting off the Quercetin Plud. I took MiraForte by LEF and then sublingual T and DIM and chrysin in cream while cutting out the Quercetin Plus. The intent was to keep my Testosterone/Es ratio low.

I was told this by one of my PCa mentors when I said I was stopping the Q+ because I would be starting Vitamin C infusions, which require active PCa cells.

Long-term suppression of testosterone (which is a normal Q+ response)
will cause atrophy of Leydig cells. When Q+ is halted, T will rise,
but perhaps not quickly, & not to previous levels. At the same time,
estradiol [E2], which is mostly made from T via aromatization, will
increase. There are two issues. First, T has a biphasic effect on
PCa. Low T promotes growth & progression, while high T controls it.
Second, the ratio of E2:T may be crucial. E2 is a PCa promoter, but
when T is high enough, the effect of E2 is diminished.


I'm afraid I don't have any papers to provide right now, as the statement above is a synthesis of what appears to be shown by clinical experience and studies. Please stand by. I'm trying to dig up papers.

#54 browser

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 06:08 PM

Thanks, I really appreciate your detailed posting here. It is helpful. When I was taking higher doses of Resveratrol with my regimen I got that "kite" feeling too. Interesting at times, but to me it was indicative of excessive dosing and prompts me to cut dose. In your case, however, high dosing is exactly what may be needed, and hopefully, for a short period. When do you plan on cutting doses? How are your recent test results doing? Is there remission yet? PSA levels?


My recent PSA was up by 27%. That's where it was 6 months ago. I attribute this to my following Bill Sard1's suggestion to take <<<OMG, the megadosing!!!>>> 8 capsules of L0ngev1nex a day, which he supplied. It's too early for another PSA with high dosing (3+ grams of RESV in the form of Nitro). I just recently cut out the Quercetin (in the form of 3 grams of MCT Quercetin plus 9 grams of Jarrow Quercetin) with the 3 grams of Nitro.

For safety sake and based on the research report on Resveratrol acting as a pro-oxidant in the morning and an anti-oxidant in the evening, I'm taking my other supplements like Pom capsules, Life Extension Mix, Blueberry Extract and the like in the evening. I take Resveratrol bucally only before noon because of the impact Resveratrol has on the circadian genes. The 100 mg. sublingual pure Testosterone I take twice a day (I take loads of DIM and other things to prevent E2 and DHT creation) appears to be working especially well the more I increase the amount of Resveratrol.

When will I go to a lower dose of Resveratrol? I'm going to take a run of 2-3 months like this, expect my PSA to plummet, then take a breather and cut back to say 1 gram of Nitro or micronized in whey protein isolate.


What Does This New England Journal of Medicine Paper Mean for Users of Finesteride 1 mg (Propecia®)?

The Prostate Cancer Prevention Trial reported in the July 17, 2003, issue of The New England Journal of Medicine studied the effect of finasteride 5 mg (Proscar®) on the development of prostate cancer:

over a 7-year period, in a randomized, placebo-controlled trial ending in February, 2003, in 18,882 men aged 55 or older, with normal prostates and PSA values were given finasteride to determine if a drug prescribed to millions of men to treat prostate gland enlargement can prevent or delay the appearance of prostate cancer in a population most susceptible to development of prostate cancer.
Headline results of the study:

Overall prevalence of prostate cancer in finasteride-treated men was reduced by 24.8% from the prevalence normally expected in men of this age and medical condition, indicating that finasteride 5mg (Proscar®) is effective in preventing or delaying the appearance of prostate cancer.

In men who developed prostate cancer during the study, finasteride 5 mg was associated with a small increased risk for developing a high-malignancy cancer. The reason for this small increased risk is not understood.

Meaning of the study for users of finasteride 1 mg (Propecia®):

Results of the study cannot be generalized from finasteride 5 g (Proscar®) used to treat prostate enlargement to the lower-dose finasteride 1 mg (Propecia®) used to treat hair loss due to androgenetic alopecia. Safety tests of Propecia® have been accepted by the Food and Drug Administration as an indication of safety for use in treating hair loss.
Introduction and Background

On July 17, 2003, the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine published “The Influence of Finasteride on the Development of Prostate Cancer”, a paper reporting the results of a seven-year, multi-center clinical trial. The purpose of the trial was to test the hypothesis that Proscar®, a 5 milligram formulation of finasteride used to treat enlargement of the prostate gland, might reduce risk for prostate cancer—a major cancer risk for men, especially for men of older age.

The “good news and bad news” findings of the study were widely reported in the media, and frequently misreported or misinterpreted. While the study was conducted with the 5 milligram formulation of finasteride (Proscar®), and was concerned only with prostate cancer prevention, the study results raised questions among patients as well as professionals regarding the use of finasteride 1 mg (Propecia®) for treatment of hair loss. The ISHRS believes that questions about the study results in relation to use of finasteride 1 mg (Propecia®) should be asked, but that questions as well as answers should be based upon (1) the facts as reported by the investigators, and (2) interpretation of the study results as reported by the investigators.
Why the Study Was Conducted

The androgenic (male) hormone testosterone and its more potent metabolite dihydrotestosterone are known to influence abnormal growth of tissue in the prostate gland. When abnormal growth is benign, the result is prostate enlargement (hypertrophy) and associated symptoms such as urinary retention. When the abnormal growth is malignant, the result is prostate cancer.

The drug finasteride inhibits the enzyme that converts testosterone into dihydrotestosterone . This reduces the amount of dihydrotestosterone in the body and the amount available to act on prostate tissue. In a 5 milligram formulation, finasteride (Proscar®) is prescribed to treat benign prostate enlargement.

The investigators designed the study to find out - would finasteride 5 mg (Proscar®), shown to be effective in treating benign prostate enlargement, also be effective in preventing or delaying the appearance of malignant growth of prostate tissue (prostate cancer)?

Androgenic hormones have many effects on many different tissues and organs, among them the hair follicle. Dihydrotestosterone has a potent role in causing hair loss due to androgenetic alopecia (See About hair loss for more information). Finasteride in a 1 milligram formulation (Propecia®) is prescribed as a treatment for hair loss. See Nonsurgical hair loss treatment options for more information.
Proscar® and Propecia®: Same Drug, Different Uses

It is important to note that only the effect of finasteride 5 mg (Proscar®) was studied. Proscar® is widely prescribed for its approved use in treating benign prostate enlargement. Lower-dose finasteride 1 mg (Propecia®), widely prescribed to treat hair loss due to androgenetic alopecia, was not used and was not discussed by the investigators. Some newspaper, TV and Web stories have not made the distinction, contributing to confusion about the study results.
The Study Protocol: Who Was Studied for How Long

The Prostate Cancer Prevention Trial was a prospective, randomized, placebo-controlled study—the “gold standard” for obtaining objective results. The study was carried out at 10 medical centers over a seven-year period ending in February, 2003.

Randomized into the study were 18,882 men, age 55 or older, who had normal prostates on physical examination and prostate-specific antigen (PSA) levels of 3.0 ng/ml or lower, indicating no benign or malignant enlargement. Half of the men received finasteride 5 mg (Proscar®) every day, and half received non-active placebo every day over the seven years of the study. Medical and laboratory examinations were performed at regular intervals, and prostate biopsy performed as indicated by results of these examinations. All men were also offered a prostate biopsy at the end of the study. The investigators assumed that 60% of the men either would have an interim diagnosis of prostate cancer during the study, or would have an end-of-study biopsy to detect or rule out the presence of cancer.
Results of the Study

The study was ended in February, 2003, 15 months early, when investigators found that all study objectives had been met.




http://www.ishrs.org...tate-cancer.htm


Interesting. Propecia helps prevent prostate cancer. I've already got it.

#55 browser

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 06:21 PM

sigh... i couldn't help overhear but resveratrol+curcumin+bioperine will inhibit P450 too much that it can't be healthy for you.....


Having moderately aggressive (but still contained in the capsule, non-androgen independent) prostate cancer can't be healthy for me. This is a short term regimen I'm taking designed to maximize the bio-availability of Curcumin, which taken in tandem with Resveratrol could activate a lot of genes that will bring about significant apoptosis of prostate cancer cells. Note that the Resveratrol, aspirin, Vitamin C, Curcumin, Bioperine and Lecithin in coconut oil and coconut milk are taken hours before other supplements. I do take some meds to help me sleep, but I take those 14 hours+ after taking the emulsion.

I've read some scare statements that disabling P450 by the likes of Bioperine can result in delay of toxins by the liver but I've not come across any studies quantifying the danger.

BTW, I think adding coconut milk gives me a bit too much fat. I need a liquid phase to blend in and hopefully create micronized oil droplets. I'm going to replace some of the coconut milk with water to aid in the formation of micelles.

#56 browser

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 06:47 PM

I had been on Quercetin Plus for 3 months. That's an "herbal" supplement perhaps containing DES. Whatever, it destroys your ability to produce T. My doctor told me to get off of the Q+ and gave me T while I was stopping the Q+ to prevent the development of androgen independent PCa cells.

Would you happen to know what your T level was at the time? I'm curious as to what the danger level is in terms of developing androgen independent PCa cells.

I am taking a bio-identical cream prescribed by my doctor which amongst other things prevents conversion of T to DHT and E1/E2. A low T:E2 ratio appears to be the switch which turns docile PCa cells (which even 20 year olds have) into thriving and perhaps aggressive PCa cells. My doctor is not afraid of T nor am I. When I mention T and PCa in a PCa forum, I immediately get horrified reactions.

Do you know of any papers or literature on the effect of T:E2 ratio?


T level at the time was 90 pg/ml (Saliva). My doctor told me the desired target should be 250-400 pg/ml. My Estradiol level was 1.35 pg/ml (Saliva). My doctor's target is E2 < 1 pg/ml (Saliva).

With respect to developing androgen independent PCa cells. I was told by fellow PCa sufferers who read PubMed instead of the daily newspaper, that I needed to raise my T and lower my Es before getting off the Quercetin Plud. I took MiraForte by LEF and then sublingual T and DIM and chrysin in cream while cutting out the Quercetin Plus. The intent was to keep my Testosterone/Es ratio low.

I was told this by one of my PCa mentors when I said I was stopping the Q+ because I would be starting Vitamin C infusions, which require active PCa cells.

Long-term suppression of testosterone (which is a normal Q+ response)
will cause atrophy of Leydig cells. When Q+ is halted, T will rise,
but perhaps not quickly, & not to previous levels. At the same time,
estradiol [E2], which is mostly made from T via aromatization, will
increase. There are two issues. First, T has a biphasic effect on
PCa. Low T promotes growth & progression, while high T controls it.
Second, the ratio of E2:T may be crucial. E2 is a PCa promoter, but
when T is high enough, the effect of E2 is diminished.


I'm afraid I don't have any papers to provide right now, as the statement above is a synthesis of what appears to be shown by clinical experience and studies. Please stand by. I'm trying to dig up papers.


Platz: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15894683, found that:

"plasma total testosterone concentration was positively associated with low-grade disease (Gleason sum < 7: OR, 1.91...) and inversely associated with high-grade disease (Gleason sum > or = 7: OR, 0.26...). Similar patterns for grade were observed for free testosterone."


Platz was involved with another that found the metabolic syndrome to be protective, & suggested that:

"this finding reflects a decrease in bioavailable (free and albumin-bound) testosterone with the metabolic syndrome and a concomitant reduction in prostate cancer risk."


Later, Platz surmised http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17478439 that:

"Emerging data suggest a differential effect of obesity by disease aggressiveness: obesity may reduce the risk of nonaggressive disease while it may promote aggressive disease."

& regarding the protection among obese men (consistent with the metabolic syndrome):

"the lower testosterone levels among obese men appear to be one of the most promising explanations"

So low T reduces risk at the "cause" level, but increases risk of higher grade disease thereafter.

So far, no mention of E2. But here is the problem with many studies. Low T is associated with high E2 in cases of obesity. So one would expect E2 to sometimes appear to be protective against incidence & a risk factor for high grade. I think that this paradox makes it difficult to reconcile some of the studies. And this is reflected in the metastudies.


Severi: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16434592, found that:

"The hazard ratio ... for aggressive cancer almost halved for a doubling of the concentration of testosterone (HR ...) and androstenedione (HR, 0.51 ...), and was 37% lower for a doubling of the concentration of DHEA sulfate (HR, 0.63 ...)."

Singh: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18381236, put forward:

"the intriguing notion that 17beta-oestradiol (E2) may be an initiating driver of CaP; in fact, in old studies in which CaP was induced in rodents, E2 often accelerated the effect of the carcinogen"

Ricke: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18055862 has suggested that:

"effective prevention of carcinogenesis will require antagonism of ER alpha but not ER beta"
& "implicates in situ production of E2"

Bosland: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17261765 noted:

"Androgens are thought to cause prostate cancer, but there is little epidemiological support for this notion. ... Because testosterone can be converted to estradiol-17beta by the enzyme aromatase, expressed in human and rodent prostate, estrogen may be involved in prostate cancer induction by testosterone. When estradiol is added to testosterone treatment of rats, prostate cancer incidence is markedly increased and even a short course of estrogen treatment results in a high incidence of prostate cancer. The active testosterone metabolite 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone cannot be aromatized to estrogen and hardly induces prostate cancer, supporting a critical role of estrogen in prostate carcinogenesis. Estrogen receptors are expressed in the prostate and may mediate some or all of the effects of estrogen."


Schatzl: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11304729, found that:

"Patients with high Gleason score prostate cancer have lower testosterone and estradiol serum levels."

This is where the T:E2 ratio problem gets hidden. In obese men, we find higher E2 with lower T. This is not the case with non-obese men. Since much of our E2 comes from aromatization of T, it is not surprising that lower T is generally associated with lower E2. However, the actual E2 level is not the point. At high T levels, E2 can't overcome the protective effect. At low T levels, E2 may be sufficient to stimulate proliferation. The biphasic effect of T, in the presence of E2, depends on the degree of estrogen dominance, i.e. on the E2:T ratio.


Platz again: http://cebp.aacrjour...14/5/1262.long:

"Stage at Diagnosis
For regionally invasive or metastatic disease ... risk seemed lower with higher total testosterone concentration and higher with ... the ratio of estradiol to total testosterone..."

"Histologic Grade

For high-grade disease (Gleason sum ≥ 7; n = 148 pairs), risk decreased with increasing total testosterone concentration, increased with increasing molar ratio of estradiol to total testosterone

For low-grade disease (Gleason sum < 7...), there was a statistically significant increasing association for total testosterone and a statistically significant decreasing association for the molar ratio of estradiol to total testosterone "

#57 browser

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 10:37 PM

sigh... i couldn't help overhear but resveratrol+curcumin+bioperine will inhibit P450 too much that it can't be healthy for you.....


Thanks for the warning. I had to warm up this morning's emulsion to lower its viscosity enough to drink it. So I bought some grapefruit juice. I added 5 grams Resveratrol to tomorrow's warmed up allotment, whirled it a long time then added a few ounces of grapefruit juice then whirled it a whole lot more. The emulsion's a lot thinner and a bid darker now. Tomorrow it'll be 12 grams of Curcumin in hopefully micro-emulsified coconut oil with aspirin, bioperine, Vitamin C, liposomal Vitamin C and 10 grams of Resveratrol. I'll first take two adult aspirins and 10 mg bioperine, wait 20 minutes then down 3 grams of Nitro 250 Resveratrol with the emulsion. If that doesn't knock out my P450 enzymes for a while, well what will?

#58 2tender

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 03:44 PM

sigh... i couldn't help overhear but resveratrol+curcumin+bioperine will inhibit P450 too much that it can't be healthy for you.....


Thanks for the warning. I had to warm up this morning's emulsion to lower its viscosity enough to drink it. So I bought some grapefruit juice. I added 5 grams Resveratrol to tomorrow's warmed up allotment, whirled it a long time then added a few ounces of grapefruit juice then whirled it a whole lot more. The emulsion's a lot thinner and a bid darker now. Tomorrow it'll be 12 grams of Curcumin in hopefully micro-emulsified coconut oil with aspirin, bioperine, Vitamin C, liposomal Vitamin C and 10 grams of Resveratrol. I'll first take two adult aspirins and 10 mg bioperine, wait 20 minutes then down 3 grams of Nitro 250 Resveratrol with the emulsion. If that doesn't knock out my P450 enzymes for a while, well what will?


Sounds like you have it covered. Are you experiencing GI irritation, much flatulence? Ever consider adding raw garlic or NAC to your regimen? How are you feeling in general? If I took that much Res. I dont think I would be able to sleep without meds, and some Benzos are said to inhibit cortisol.

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 04:52 PM

sigh... i couldn't help overhear but resveratrol+curcumin+bioperine will inhibit P450 too much that it can't be healthy for you.....


Thanks for the warning. I had to warm up this morning's emulsion to lower its viscosity enough to drink it. So I bought some grapefruit juice. I added 5 grams Resveratrol to tomorrow's warmed up allotment, whirled it a long time then added a few ounces of grapefruit juice then whirled it a whole lot more. The emulsion's a lot thinner and a bid darker now. Tomorrow it'll be 12 grams of Curcumin in hopefully micro-emulsified coconut oil with aspirin, bioperine, Vitamin C, liposomal Vitamin C and 10 grams of Resveratrol. I'll first take two adult aspirins and 10 mg bioperine, wait 20 minutes then down 3 grams of Nitro 250 Resveratrol with the emulsion. If that doesn't knock out my P450 enzymes for a while, well what will?


Sounds like you have it covered. Are you experiencing GI irritation, much flatulence? Ever consider adding raw garlic or NAC to your regimen? How are you feeling in general? If I took that much Res. I dont think I would be able to sleep without meds, and some Benzos are said to inhibit cortisol.

There is no doubt that this emulsion and regimen is getting Resveratrol and hopefully Curcumin into my blood. My doctor prescribed Clonazepam to handle the panic attack the high dose Resveratrol causes in the morning. He's also reformulating my bio-identical cream to inhibit more cortisol than he's already inhibiting. T

he panic lasts for at least 6 hours, so perhaps that's an indication the Resveratrol is still active. The latest emulsion tastes vile and the vile stays in my mouth, as the aspirin, Curcumin, Bioperine are in the oil, the oil gets the stuff into the mucosa of my mouth. I am feeling major GI irritation. I'm going to cut down on the aspirin and eliminate the grapefruit juice.

In the morning I feel distressed. Come even, believe it or not, I start to crash around 9:30 PM and last night I slept like a baby, with less sleeping meds. At this rate I'll be taking no sleeping meds.

Two days ago I inhaled, using a Vicks Vaporizer, 10 cc. of Methyl Jasminate. That had the usual expect, the I'm on chemo effect afterwards and yesterday.

My PCa symptoms are ever abating. I'm going to schedule my lab work for about a month from now. Full liver profile, free and total PSA, full metabolism panel, ferritin. I just got word that my 100 grams of DCA has hit US Customs. I expect to get it and start taking it in about a week. The DCA should cause fatigue which would counteract some of the morning super hyper/panic I'm getting from the Resveratrol and Curcumin.

BTW, my doctor is not promoting my doing this. He's watching me do it and monitoring blood tests and vital signs.

I am eating a slew of raw garlic. The NAC is out except for the two days a week I get 75 grams of Vitamin C IVs because NAC requires taking lots of Vitamin C to prevent kidney stones. I take 3 LEF mix tablets with my evening meal on days I don't get IV Vitamin C. I figure the anti-oxidants will be out of my system by the time I assault it with the emulsion in the morning.

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#60 2tender

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 05:22 PM

sigh... i couldn't help overhear but resveratrol+curcumin+bioperine will inhibit P450 too much that it can't be healthy for you.....


Thanks for the warning. I had to warm up this morning's emulsion to lower its viscosity enough to drink it. So I bought some grapefruit juice. I added 5 grams Resveratrol to tomorrow's warmed up allotment, whirled it a long time then added a few ounces of grapefruit juice then whirled it a whole lot more. The emulsion's a lot thinner and a bid darker now. Tomorrow it'll be 12 grams of Curcumin in hopefully micro-emulsified coconut oil with aspirin, bioperine, Vitamin C, liposomal Vitamin C and 10 grams of Resveratrol. I'll first take two adult aspirins and 10 mg bioperine, wait 20 minutes then down 3 grams of Nitro 250 Resveratrol with the emulsion. If that doesn't knock out my P450 enzymes for a while, well what will?


Sounds like you have it covered. Are you experiencing GI irritation, much flatulence? Ever consider adding raw garlic or NAC to your regimen? How are you feeling in general? If I took that much Res. I dont think I would be able to sleep without meds, and some Benzos are said to inhibit cortisol.

There is no doubt that this emulsion and regimen is getting Resveratrol and hopefully Curcumin into my blood. My doctor prescribed Clonazepam to handle the panic attack the high dose Resveratrol causes in the morning. He's also reformulating my bio-identical cream to inhibit more cortisol than he's already inhibiting. T

he panic lasts for at least 6 hours, so perhaps that's an indication the Resveratrol is still active. The latest emulsion tastes vile and the vile stays in my mouth, as the aspirin, Curcumin, Bioperine are in the oil, the oil gets the stuff into the mucosa of my mouth. I am feeling major GI irritation. I'm going to cut down on the aspirin and eliminate the grapefruit juice.

In the morning I feel distressed. Come even, believe it or not, I start to crash around 9:30 PM and last night I slept like a baby, with less sleeping meds. At this rate I'll be taking no sleeping meds.

Two days ago I inhaled, using a Vicks Vaporizer, 10 cc. of Methyl Jasminate. That had the usual expect, the I'm on chemo effect afterwards and yesterday.

My PCa symptoms are ever abating. I'm going to schedule my lab work for about a month from now. Full liver profile, free and total PSA, full metabolism panel, ferritin. I just got word that my 100 grams of DCA has hit US Customs. I expect to get it and start taking it in about a week. The DCA should cause fatigue which would counteract some of the morning super hyper/panic I'm getting from the Resveratrol and Curcumin.

BTW, my doctor is not promoting my doing this. He's watching me do it and monitoring blood tests and vital signs.

I am eating a slew of raw garlic. The NAC is out except for the two days a week I get 75 grams of Vitamin C IVs because NAC requires taking lots of Vitamin C to prevent kidney stones. I take 3 LEF mix tablets with my evening meal on days I don't get IV Vitamin C. I figure the anti-oxidants will be out of my system by the time I assault it with the emulsion in the morning.


I think you've really done your research here. I highly doubt the anti-oxidents are washed out by morning. If you're a member of LEF and you probably know this, they have protocols listed as suggested treatments of various conditions on their site, as well as a hotline. Clonazepam is one of the stronger benzos, I dont think it inhibits cortisol as much as Lorazepam would. I dont think the Resveratrol would cause panic, but I havent taken it at those high of doses. The situation itself would be enough to produce anxiety in anyone. IV C has shown positive benefits in many cases, the fact that you have access to this type of therapy is encouraging. Thanks for keeping us updated! Very good thread!




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