17 replies to this topic

[ramon25]

I have read on a few sites that ALCAR interferes with thyroid function. Is this true? its the main reason I am hesitant to use it.

[niner]

I have read on a few sites that ALCAR interferes with thyroid function. Is this true? its the main reason I am hesitant to use it.

Carnitine does act as an antagonist of thyroid hormone, (see here or here, mechanism here) but there is no mention of ALCAR being a problem. In the carnitine experiments, relatively high doses (2g or 4g/day) were used in humans, and high concentrations were used in vitro. ALCAR (acetyl l-carnitine; a different molecule) may or may not have some amount of the effect shown by carnitine, which acts by peripheral inhibition of thyroid hormone nuclear uptake. I've never heard of this being a problem with anyone who takes ALCAR (which would include myself). If there is an effect with ALCAR, it's probably small and probably wouldn't be noticed by people with normal thyroid function. If you are on the edge, I'd suggest watching for hypothyroid symptoms, but I doubt that you'll see a problem.

[chrono]

Yeah, the only things I could find were unreferenced statements, probably based on extrapolating from the effect of carnitine.

Which might be reasonable, they are very closely related and work in much the same way in the body. So if it might be a problem for you, be cautious and maybe take moderate dosages.

[albedo]

I am not sure but just wonder if the rise in TSH I noticed here can be attributed to ALCAR I have been taking since quite long (LEF, here). Anyone reporting a similar concern? In meantime I have been reducing soy foods.

[Jason30]

Interesting!
I have hypothyroidism and i take Alcar for my fibro symptoms.
Do you know if Alcar has also effect on hypothyroidism?

[albedo]

On hyperthyroidism and comparison between different formula of carnitine see e.g.

http://www.lef.org/m..._thyroid_01.htm

Also:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15591013
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11502782
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11201848

But cannot find much on hypothyroidism and rise of TSH

[Kevnzworld]

I am not sure but just wonder if the rise in TSH I noticed here can be attributed to ALCAR I have been taking since quite long (LEF, here). Anyone reporting a similar concern? In meantime I have been reducing soy foods.

I take and have been taking 1000 mg a day of ALCAR for almost ten years. My TSH rose to 4 about two years ago. I attributed the rise to drinking a lot of iced tea made with tap water containing fluoride . I began taking a kelp pill with iodine, and a 1/2 grain of armour thyroid gland extract. My TSH is now 2.5.

[niner]

I attributed the rise to drinking a lot of iced tea made with tap water containing fluoride.

The tea probably provides more fluoride than the water.

[chipdouglas]

The tea probably provides more fluoride than the water.

This has been a concern of mine regarding brewed sencha green tea. I've been having between 3-4 cups of this last daily - I've been doing so for slightly more than two years now and during that time, I've gained more weight than was usual (though there could be many other responsible factors involved other than GT) Prior to making daily green tea beverages a habit, my TSH was 2.46 mUI/L. I'll soon have updated blood work done - I'm curious to see what my TSH level is at now.

OTOH, I have reasons to think GT might promote Insulin Resistance : http://suppversity.b...ucks-study.html

[maxwatt]

Japanese green tea does not have the fluoride problem many, but not all, Chinese teas do. On the other hand, it may more radioactive.

[chipdouglas]

Japanese green tea does not have the fluoride problem many, but not all, Chinese teas do. On the other hand, it may more radioactive.

I wasn't aware of Japanese green tea having a lower fluoride content than those originating in China. I'd expect the severe environmental issue in China to be the determining factor regarding fluoride content - though I recall that the younger the tea leaves the less fluoride it supposedly contains - older ones, like those used to make Pu-Erh tea (brick teas) have higher fluoride content. The radioactivity levels of Japanese grown teas has been bothering me. I've made sure to only get Japanese teas which are grown farthest away from the location of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster in order to counter this issue - i.e. Kyushu/Uji prefectures. The tea shop I get my teas from have someone from an independent firm come to test the radioactivity levels of their various batches. They also periodically test for both heavy metals and pesticide residues.

I'm also more and more looking at taking GTE, though I have occasionally - the reports of hepatotoxicity have perplexed me though. Many on here seem to supplement EGCG in the form of GTE without any problem.

https://www.facebook...690650180967135

http://www.mskcc.org.../herb/green-tea

^ Molinari, Watt, Kruszyna, Nelson, Walsh, Huang, Nashan and Peltekian, Acture Liver Failure Induced by Green Tea Extracts: Case Report and Review of the Literature, Liver Transplantation, Vol. 12, Issue 12, 2006, p.1892-1895. DOI 10.1002/lt

[Kevnzworld]

I'm also more and more looking at taking GTE, though I have occasionally - the reports of hepatotoxicity have perplexed me though. Many on here seem to supplement EGCG in the form of GTE without any problem.

I originally brought the topic of tea, fluoride and thyroid up because I suspected that the amount of black iced tea brewed with fluoridated water I am consuming might be affecting my TSH . Unfortunately I eat out for lunch daily, and it remains my beverage of choice. I consume many of my supplements at lunch which requires a lot of tea!
I'm sure each on its own in smaller quantities is harmless, but the two together at more than 16 oz per day may not be.
I do take 350 mg of EGCG from 750 mg of GTE per day. There isn't a fluoride problem with the extract from what I've read. This would be the upper limit of what I would at least consider safe. There are some individual reports of liver toxicity at higher doses. As with all medications and supplements, there is a cumulative load on the liver, and some people have more compromised liver function.
My liver enzymes are normal. Check out this thread on the same topic
http://www.longecity...en-tea-extract/
For more on fluoride and green tea
http://www.antioxida...de-effects.html

[chipdouglas]

Thanks for the above response Kavenzworld. I understand the links you posted (which links I've read through) were meant to show the toxicity associated with both Fluoride and Aluminum. Now since one of the links briefly mentioned the often perpetuated myth that it's possible to remove most of the caffeine in tea by steeping it for 1 minute, I thought you'd enjoy having a look at this :

http://chadao.blogsp...nd-reality.html

Edited by chipdouglas, 05 March 2014 - 04:37 AM.

[xks201]

I want to seriously stress you guys to not just look at TSH but simultaneously look at free t4, total t4, free t3, reverse t3, and total t3. Calculate your free t3/total t3 ratio (look up the healthy ratio). Just a TSH gives no context to the situation. It is almost dangerous going off just one indicator like that. It was in my case at least.

Edited by xks201, 06 March 2014 - 02:50 AM.

[albedo]

Tks xks. Good point. I did look indeed also at T3 and T4 (unfortunately not to the totals) which seemed normal. You might wish to give a look.

[xks201]

Tks xks. Good point. I did look indeed also at T3 and T4 (unfortunately not to the totals) which seemed normal. You might wish to give a look.

That is a nice set of labs. Where did you get them done? DHEA is low as is copper. Seriously low. I recommend sublingual dhea as it converts less to estrogen than oral dhea in most people. SHBG is kind of on the high side. The only thing that lowers that is winstrol - which may or may not be legal in your country.

[albedo]

Thank you xks. I have been experimenting with DHEA but stopped because of my prostate condition. I wrote on this HERE.

[Jason30]

I am not sure but just wonder if the rise in TSH I noticed here can be attributed to ALCAR I have been taking since quite long (LEF, here). Anyone reporting a similar concern? In meantime I have been reducing soy foods.

I take and have been taking 1000 mg a day of ALCAR for almost ten years. My TSH rose to 4 about two years ago. I attributed the rise to drinking a lot of iced tea made with tap water containing fluoride . I began taking a kelp pill with iodine, and a 1/2 grain of armour thyroid gland extract. My TSH is now 2.5.

I wonder where you bought the armour thyroid gland extract?