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#1 Guacamolium

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 04:59 AM


Okay, back-story on me:

My favorite cognitive enhancers generally are: Cerebrolysin, pyritinol, alpha-GPC, oxiracetam, NALT, and Hydergine.

I took Ritalin prescribed to my best friend WAYYYY back in HS, and it worked SO WELL in regards to finding a task and completing it. Well, now I have a script for Ritalin this time, and I want to hear from other ADHD medication users what potentiators/combos for Ritalin worked best for them.

I've tried just about everything under the sun as far as a cognitive enhancer, but sadly from my experience my beloved pyritinol will probably be contraindicated, so, please can I get advice from those who take Ritalin or similar with what they take and why?


My Ritalin is replacing modafinil for identifying tasks and completing them fully, which is sometimes hard for me.

I'm shooting for intelligence + diligence.

Thanks to all that give their methylphenidate or adderall info to me in advance! =)
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#2 Heisenberg

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 06:57 AM

Okay, back-story on me:

My favorite cognitive enhancers generally are: Cerebrolysin, pyritinol, alpha-GPC, oxiracetam, NALT, and Hydergine.

I took Ritalin prescribed to my best friend WAYYYY back in HS, and it worked SO WELL in regards to finding a task and completing it. Well, now I have a script for Ritalin this time, and I want to hear from other ADHD medication users what potentiators/combos for Ritalin worked best for them.

I've tried just about everything under the sun as far as a cognitive enhancer, but sadly from my experience my beloved pyritinol will probably be contraindicated, so, please can I get advice from those who take Ritalin or similar with what they take and why?


My Ritalin is replacing modafinil for identifying tasks and completing them fully, which is sometimes hard for me.

I'm shooting for intelligence + diligence.

Thanks to all that give their methylphenidate or adderall info to me in advance! =)


I find Ritalin (I use R, standard release) one of the most effective enhancers when it comes down to focus and diligence. I take a low dose of 5mg in the morning and 10mg in the afternoon. For me, it works well with L-Tyrosine, ALCAR, and Piracetam. I find its effect enhanced when combined with a low dose of caffeine (10mg). For some reason, I do not respond well to Pyritinol at all, same for Sulbutiamine. I am not sure it is the Ritalin, it may be idiosyncratic.

So far, I have not found a nootropic that would be able to replace Ritalin for me.

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#3 chrono

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 07:01 AM

What was wrong when combined with pyritinol?

#4 Heisenberg

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 07:45 PM

What was wrong when combined with pyritinol?


I experienced an effect, but it was followed by nausea and diarrhea a few hours later on several occasions, even from a low dose.

#5 Guacamolium

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 09:27 PM

What was wrong when combined with pyritinol?


Pyritinol is a strong cerebral vasodilator, and any sympathomimetics taken with it that are vasoconstrictors will cause a major contraindication in the phosphodiesterase inhibitor pathways, which causes all kinds of problems. It sucks because pyritinol is easily in my top 3 favs as far as cognitive enhancers go.

Things that I know of that are contraindicated with pyritinol are: amphetamines, PEA, cathinones, nicotine, and ephedrine.

Anyways, are there any other imminst members who take Ritalin, Vyvanse, Adderall, or Desoxyn with added cognitive enhancers?

#6 brain

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Posted 16 April 2010 - 01:43 AM

my current stack is:

selegiline 5mg/day
dexmethylphenidate 2.5mg/day
piracetam 3 g/day
caffeine 50 - 200 mg/day

as selegiline + focalin/ritalin is conventionally considered an insane combination, i guess i can't really recommend it, though it does seem to be working wonders for me. no come down, more distinctly euphoric feeling, longer lasting. I do have adhd-pi, which needs to be considered here. This combination might not be healthy for someone who doesn't, and i've heard of several people developing mania or psychosis from the ritalin/deprenyl combo. I'm getting some hypomania and I love it. Either way, i'd recommend focalin over regular old methylphenidate, as the focalin only contains the R isomer and produces a significantly cleaner, less peripheral and more mental effect. it's really clean stuff, i have no idea why it isn't more common. I'll follow up after i've been doing this for a bit longer, but so far, the response is excellent and far exceeds anything i've ever experienced from any combination or any adhd drug.

edit: selegiline is believed to potentiate ritalin by around 4-5x and adderall by around 2x. 2.5mg of focalin = 5mg ritalin.
'

Edited by brain, 16 April 2010 - 01:47 AM.


#7 FunkOdyssey

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Posted 16 April 2010 - 02:56 AM

my current stack is:

selegiline 5mg/day
dexmethylphenidate 2.5mg/day
piracetam 3 g/day
caffeine 50 - 200 mg/day

as selegiline + focalin/ritalin is conventionally considered an insane combination, i guess i can't really recommend it, though it does seem to be working wonders for me. no come down, more distinctly euphoric feeling, longer lasting. I do have adhd-pi, which needs to be considered here. This combination might not be healthy for someone who doesn't, and i've heard of several people developing mania or psychosis from the ritalin/deprenyl combo. I'm getting some hypomania and I love it. Either way, i'd recommend focalin over regular old methylphenidate, as the focalin only contains the R isomer and produces a significantly cleaner, less peripheral and more mental effect. it's really clean stuff, i have no idea why it isn't more common. I'll follow up after i've been doing this for a bit longer, but so far, the response is excellent and far exceeds anything i've ever experienced from any combination or any adhd drug.

edit: selegiline is believed to potentiate ritalin by around 4-5x and adderall by around 2x. 2.5mg of focalin = 5mg ritalin.
'


How long have you been on this? I feel like it won't be sustainable.

#8 brain

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Posted 16 April 2010 - 01:47 PM

Why are you concerned that it won't be sustainable? I've heard of it being so for other users, though there is obviously a limited amount of information available about the combination. This is my 3rd day on it. When i'm on this combination, it seems like it makes the ritalin last at least 3 times as long, so i only need to dose in the morning. I have been feeling a little 'burnt' in the morning, but i'm pretty sure that comes with the territory and the combo doesn't seem to have a marked crash aside form this. It goes away when I take it again, as would be expected.

Funk, would you have any advice on what I might try to do to make the stack more sustainable? And, also, is burning out the main concern of yours? I was considering adding rhodiola for adrenal support but i'm not sure I like the idea of taking two MAOIs and focalin at the same time. Essentially, I'm trying to keep the doses as low as possible. I've dropped it down to 1.25 mg this morning and it seems quite effective, though less manic/euphoric feeling, which isn't really a problem and not what i'm looking for. I noticed that when i combined adderall and selegiline i experienced almost no crash, no hangover, etc. I feel like it's possible that the selegiline might actually make these drugs more sustainable than they would be normally, but this is just a hunch.

Edited by brain, 16 April 2010 - 01:54 PM.


#9 chrono

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Posted 16 April 2010 - 01:53 PM

Pyritinol is a strong cerebral vasodilator, and any sympathomimetics taken with it that are vasoconstrictors will cause a major contraindication in the phosphodiesterase inhibitor pathways, which causes all kinds of problems. It sucks because pyritinol is easily in my top 3 favs as far as cognitive enhancers go.

Things that I know of that are contraindicated with pyritinol are: amphetamines, PEA, cathinones, nicotine, and ephedrine

Very interesting, thanks. I asked a question about the effectiveness and safety of combining vasodilators with vasoconstrictors (among other things) in the first post of Nicotine and Vasoconstriction thread. If you can give any more details about this mechanism there, it would be greatly appreciated!

#10 FunkOdyssey

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Posted 16 April 2010 - 04:26 PM

Why are you concerned that it won't be sustainable? I've heard of it being so for other users, though there is obviously a limited amount of information available about the combination. This is my 3rd day on it. When i'm on this combination, it seems like it makes the ritalin last at least 3 times as long, so i only need to dose in the morning. I have been feeling a little 'burnt' in the morning, but i'm pretty sure that comes with the territory and the combo doesn't seem to have a marked crash aside form this. It goes away when I take it again, as would be expected.

Funk, would you have any advice on what I might try to do to make the stack more sustainable? And, also, is burning out the main concern of yours? I was considering adding rhodiola for adrenal support but i'm not sure I like the idea of taking two MAOIs and focalin at the same time. Essentially, I'm trying to keep the doses as low as possible. I've dropped it down to 1.25 mg this morning and it seems quite effective, though less manic/euphoric feeling, which isn't really a problem and not what i'm looking for. I noticed that when i combined adderall and selegiline i experienced almost no crash, no hangover, etc. I feel like it's possible that the selegiline might actually make these drugs more sustainable than they would be normally, but this is just a hunch.


I think it won't be sustainable in the sense that the combination will be subject to the same development of tolerance that you would see with ritalin alone. I don't doubt the deprenyl is multiplying the strength of the ritalin several-fold as well as prolonging its duration of effect but you are still in the "honeymoon period".

I do think its interesting that deprenyl increases the duration so much. Is alertness and motivation steady throughout the day or is only the focus/concentration component that is maintained? I ask because I don't see how deprenyl could extend the noradrenergic aspect of the ritalin effect.
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#11 polybi

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Posted 16 April 2010 - 07:03 PM

i would also be a bit worried about having a maoi with Ritalin as it could lead to a hypertensive crisis(maybe). but then maoi use scares me fullstop.

#12 kalibtweli

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Posted 16 April 2010 - 08:55 PM

Why are you concerned that it won't be sustainable? I've heard of it being so for other users, though there is obviously a limited amount of information available about the combination. This is my 3rd day on it. When i'm on this combination, it seems like it makes the ritalin last at least 3 times as long, so i only need to dose in the morning. I have been feeling a little 'burnt' in the morning, but i'm pretty sure that comes with the territory and the combo doesn't seem to have a marked crash aside form this. It goes away when I take it again, as would be expected.

Funk, would you have any advice on what I might try to do to make the stack more sustainable? And, also, is burning out the main concern of yours? I was considering adding rhodiola for adrenal support but i'm not sure I like the idea of taking two MAOIs and focalin at the same time. Essentially, I'm trying to keep the doses as low as possible. I've dropped it down to 1.25 mg this morning and it seems quite effective, though less manic/euphoric feeling, which isn't really a problem and not what i'm looking for. I noticed that when i combined adderall and selegiline i experienced almost no crash, no hangover, etc. I feel like it's possible that the selegiline might actually make these drugs more sustainable than they would be normally, but this is just a hunch.


I have used deprenyl + ritalin for over a year now. Is this only your third day on deprenyl, or third day on the addition of focalin? If you just started deprenyl you of course would realize the inhibition of MAO would continue and progressive doses would lead to much more dramatic, and possibly detrimental effects. But I'm sure you know that already. IME, the combo works quite well, although it can tax the adrenals if you're not careful.

#13 Heisenberg

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Posted 16 April 2010 - 09:15 PM

Why are you concerned that it won't be sustainable? I've heard of it being so for other users, though there is obviously a limited amount of information available about the combination. This is my 3rd day on it. When i'm on this combination, it seems like it makes the ritalin last at least 3 times as long, so i only need to dose in the morning. I have been feeling a little 'burnt' in the morning, but i'm pretty sure that comes with the territory and the combo doesn't seem to have a marked crash aside form this. It goes away when I take it again, as would be expected.

Funk, would you have any advice on what I might try to do to make the stack more sustainable? And, also, is burning out the main concern of yours? I was considering adding rhodiola for adrenal support but i'm not sure I like the idea of taking two MAOIs and focalin at the same time. Essentially, I'm trying to keep the doses as low as possible. I've dropped it down to 1.25 mg this morning and it seems quite effective, though less manic/euphoric feeling, which isn't really a problem and not what i'm looking for. I noticed that when i combined adderall and selegiline i experienced almost no crash, no hangover, etc. I feel like it's possible that the selegiline might actually make these drugs more sustainable than they would be normally, but this is just a hunch.


I think it won't be sustainable in the sense that the combination will be subject to the same development of tolerance that you would see with ritalin alone. I don't doubt the deprenyl is multiplying the strength of the ritalin several-fold as well as prolonging its duration of effect but you are still in the "honeymoon period".

I do think its interesting that deprenyl increases the duration so much. Is alertness and motivation steady throughout the day or is only the focus/concentration component that is maintained? I ask because I don't see how deprenyl could extend the noradrenergic aspect of the ritalin effect.


As far as Ritalin tolerance goes, I understand it exists, but I myself have not experienced it. I believe it may have to do with the low dose; I have taken 15mg per day each day for the last 400+ days and have not noticed any tolerance effects.

#14 Guacamolium

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Posted 16 April 2010 - 10:17 PM

Hi, I am contacting you directly as I feel starting this conversation would detract from your original thread.

I would be interested what else is contraindicated with ritalin, apart from pyritinol. I have started with piracetam a few months ago in addition to ritalin, and am slowly adding other nootropics, some with mixed results (such as pyritinol and sulbutiamine). Could you point me to a resource online where I could cross check the supplements I take with ritalin?

Many thanks,
H


Forget about pyritinol if your consumption of ritalin is sustained regularly.

You'll have to discover the greatness of it in a bereft-time of the greatness with Ritalin. Much what I now have to juggle - that is, if pyritinol hits you like it does me.

Your basic concern is what NOT to take with Ritalin, and wow man that can be a very large number of things. Remember that I started that topic as a user of most cognitive enhancers that was inexperienced WITH Ritalin-based CE'ing things.

As long as you're taking your fish/krill/seal oil and proper B vitamin supplementation, piracetam should be fine. You kinda have to specify more about your mechanistic needs other than contraindications - which is any vasodilating substance like gingko, vinco, or Hydergine, for example.

Also, this would have been completely fine mentioned in the thread as far as I'm concerned, but I love questions just as much as the next person, so bombs-away! (this ironically had to be posted here, because the PM system wasn't working - lulz.)

#15 Animal

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 12:01 AM

Why are you concerned that it won't be sustainable? I've heard of it being so for other users, though there is obviously a limited amount of information available about the combination. This is my 3rd day on it. When i'm on this combination, it seems like it makes the ritalin last at least 3 times as long, so i only need to dose in the morning. I have been feeling a little 'burnt' in the morning, but i'm pretty sure that comes with the territory and the combo doesn't seem to have a marked crash aside form this. It goes away when I take it again, as would be expected.

Funk, would you have any advice on what I might try to do to make the stack more sustainable? And, also, is burning out the main concern of yours? I was considering adding rhodiola for adrenal support but i'm not sure I like the idea of taking two MAOIs and focalin at the same time. Essentially, I'm trying to keep the doses as low as possible. I've dropped it down to 1.25 mg this morning and it seems quite effective, though less manic/euphoric feeling, which isn't really a problem and not what i'm looking for. I noticed that when i combined adderall and selegiline i experienced almost no crash, no hangover, etc. I feel like it's possible that the selegiline might actually make these drugs more sustainable than they would be normally, but this is just a hunch.


I think it won't be sustainable in the sense that the combination will be subject to the same development of tolerance that you would see with ritalin alone. I don't doubt the deprenyl is multiplying the strength of the ritalin several-fold as well as prolonging its duration of effect but you are still in the "honeymoon period".

I do think its interesting that deprenyl increases the duration so much. Is alertness and motivation steady throughout the day or is only the focus/concentration component that is maintained? I ask because I don't see how deprenyl could extend the noradrenergic aspect of the ritalin effect.


I agree, anything that induces hypomania is by it's very nature unsustainable. There is a reason it is considered a psychological state of disorder. I expect you would crash pretty hard after doing that for a few weeks, and the burn out would be severe and sustained. Either that or it will progress to mania, and then the after effects will be even worse.

I would recommend that you reduce the dose of either the Deprenyl or the Ritalin until you no longer get the euphoria/hypomania. Ritalin is not something to be used recreationally, and I thought it would be fairly obvious that any substance that induces euphoria, will rapidly decrease hedonic tone until the Ritalin is required to prevent the onset of potent depression and apathy.

@Heisenberg
Ergh 15mg per day for over 400 consecutive days? I shudder to think of the state of your catecholaminergic system, I guess you're going to be dependent for life, not a healthy prospect.

Edited by Animal, 17 April 2010 - 12:02 AM.


#16 VoidPointer

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 01:22 AM

Most ADD children on stimulants stay on them for years, and methylphenidate has been around for over 50 years. It is better not to take every day, but the majority of ADD patients take their meds every day, then eventually just stop.
To quote my psychiatrist 'When we examined the mental/physical health of individuals who had taken MPH for long periods of time as children, we could not find any significant long-term side effects from the medication.'

I personally try not to take Focalin more than 3-4 times a week. Dexmethylphenidate is much better for complex problem solving than MPH,but MPH has more of an anti-depressant effect(it was created with that purpose actually).

My tip; drink some beet juice(add some red cabbage as well) to reduce to heart rate and blood pressure. Nasty taste but it does work well in conjunction with DexMPH & MPH.

Edited by VoidPointer, 17 April 2010 - 01:24 AM.


#17 cougar

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 02:14 AM

Finally I got a prescription for methylphenidate. The first day I took 10mg in the morning on an empty stomach. I felt extremely good in terms of concentration and motivation. The effect started wearing out about 6 hours after dosing however it was still good enough. Even 10 hours after I still felt I had much more energy. The next day I took 5mg and still got strong responded. Then I took 2.5mg in the morning and another 2.5mg 5 hours later and still get good results though much more subtle compared with 10mg dose. I would like to stick on this low dose even though I'm not getting "full effect" on concentration and motivation as I don't want the down regulation of my dopamine receptor. Also, I take at least one drug holiday every week. I really hope that I would never build tolerance, I LOVE LOVE LOVE methylphenidate.

I find Ritalin (I use R, standard release) one of the most effective enhancers when it comes down to focus and diligence. I take a low dose of 5mg in the morning and 10mg in the afternoon. For me, it works well with L-Tyrosine, ALCAR, and Piracetam. I find its effect enhanced when combined with a low dose of caffeine (10mg). For some reason, I do not respond well to Pyritinol at all, same for Sulbutiamine. I am not sure it is the Ritalin, it may be idiosyncratic.

So far, I have not found a nootropic that would be able to replace Ritalin for me.


Heisenbery,
What do you mean by "Ritalin R", do you mean dexmethylphenidate?

#18 Guacamolium

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 04:04 AM

Okay yeah, this thread had to do with what you take with Ritalin or its like for better results intellectually. There's gotta be some Ritailin stacks out there that work..?

#19 cougar

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 05:53 AM

Okay yeah, this thread had to do with what you take with Ritalin or its like for better results intellectually. There's gotta be some Ritailin stacks out there that work..?

I stacked Ritalin with Piracetam once but got extremely tired that day. Don't know why but am willing to try this combo a few more times in the future. I also used Modafinil with Ritalin another day when I didn't get enough sleep the night before and found it to be potentiating Ritalin a little. I will not be stacking these two again in fear of developing tolerance rapidly.

Edited by cougar, 17 April 2010 - 05:54 AM.


#20 Heisenberg

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 08:57 AM

Finally I got a prescription for methylphenidate. The first day I took 10mg in the morning on an empty stomach. I felt extremely good in terms of concentration and motivation. The effect started wearing out about 6 hours after dosing however it was still good enough. Even 10 hours after I still felt I had much more energy. The next day I took 5mg and still got strong responded. Then I took 2.5mg in the morning and another 2.5mg 5 hours later and still get good results though much more subtle compared with 10mg dose. I would like to stick on this low dose even though I'm not getting "full effect" on concentration and motivation as I don't want the down regulation of my dopamine receptor. Also, I take at least one drug holiday every week. I really hope that I would never build tolerance, I LOVE LOVE LOVE methylphenidate.

I find Ritalin (I use R, standard release) one of the most effective enhancers when it comes down to focus and diligence. I take a low dose of 5mg in the morning and 10mg in the afternoon. For me, it works well with L-Tyrosine, ALCAR, and Piracetam. I find its effect enhanced when combined with a low dose of caffeine (10mg). For some reason, I do not respond well to Pyritinol at all, same for Sulbutiamine. I am not sure it is the Ritalin, it may be idiosyncratic.

So far, I have not found a nootropic that would be able to replace Ritalin for me.


Heisenbery,
What do you mean by "Ritalin R", do you mean dexmethylphenidate?


Ritalin R is the "original" methylphenidate, unstustained release (R = regular). It is NOT dexmethylphenidate, which is much more expensive.

#21 Heisenberg

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 09:03 AM

Why are you concerned that it won't be sustainable? I've heard of it being so for other users, though there is obviously a limited amount of information available about the combination. This is my 3rd day on it. When i'm on this combination, it seems like it makes the ritalin last at least 3 times as long, so i only need to dose in the morning. I have been feeling a little 'burnt' in the morning, but i'm pretty sure that comes with the territory and the combo doesn't seem to have a marked crash aside form this. It goes away when I take it again, as would be expected.

Funk, would you have any advice on what I might try to do to make the stack more sustainable? And, also, is burning out the main concern of yours? I was considering adding rhodiola for adrenal support but i'm not sure I like the idea of taking two MAOIs and focalin at the same time. Essentially, I'm trying to keep the doses as low as possible. I've dropped it down to 1.25 mg this morning and it seems quite effective, though less manic/euphoric feeling, which isn't really a problem and not what i'm looking for. I noticed that when i combined adderall and selegiline i experienced almost no crash, no hangover, etc. I feel like it's possible that the selegiline might actually make these drugs more sustainable than they would be normally, but this is just a hunch.


I think it won't be sustainable in the sense that the combination will be subject to the same development of tolerance that you would see with ritalin alone. I don't doubt the deprenyl is multiplying the strength of the ritalin several-fold as well as prolonging its duration of effect but you are still in the "honeymoon period".

I do think its interesting that deprenyl increases the duration so much. Is alertness and motivation steady throughout the day or is only the focus/concentration component that is maintained? I ask because I don't see how deprenyl could extend the noradrenergic aspect of the ritalin effect.


I agree, anything that induces hypomania is by it's very nature unsustainable. There is a reason it is considered a psychological state of disorder. I expect you would crash pretty hard after doing that for a few weeks, and the burn out would be severe and sustained. Either that or it will progress to mania, and then the after effects will be even worse.

I would recommend that you reduce the dose of either the Deprenyl or the Ritalin until you no longer get the euphoria/hypomania. Ritalin is not something to be used recreationally, and I thought it would be fairly obvious that any substance that induces euphoria, will rapidly decrease hedonic tone until the Ritalin is required to prevent the onset of potent depression and apathy.

@Heisenberg
Ergh 15mg per day for over 400 consecutive days? I shudder to think of the state of your catecholaminergic system, I guess you're going to be dependent for life, not a healthy prospect.


@ Animal: I believe 15mg is a rather low dose, compared to what other ADHD patients take (up to 100mg). I do not get the euphoria, manic feeling that others mentioned, and I also do not use ritalin to wake up or stay awake longer. It simply helps me overcome negative ADHD effects like drifting off in conversations, reading the same sentence over and over etc. Thanks for your input, I should probably test for tolerance and take off from ritalin for a week or so to see what happens.

Is there a way to rebalance the catecholaminergic system, for example with antioxidants or other supplements?

#22 Heisenberg

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 09:14 AM

Hi, I am contacting you directly as I feel starting this conversation would detract from your original thread.

I would be interested what else is contraindicated with ritalin, apart from pyritinol. I have started with piracetam a few months ago in addition to ritalin, and am slowly adding other nootropics, some with mixed results (such as pyritinol and sulbutiamine). Could you point me to a resource online where I could cross check the supplements I take with ritalin?

Many thanks,
H


Forget about pyritinol if your consumption of ritalin is sustained regularly.

You'll have to discover the greatness of it in a bereft-time of the greatness with Ritalin. Much what I now have to juggle - that is, if pyritinol hits you like it does me.

Your basic concern is what NOT to take with Ritalin, and wow man that can be a very large number of things. Remember that I started that topic as a user of most cognitive enhancers that was inexperienced WITH Ritalin-based CE'ing things.

As long as you're taking your fish/krill/seal oil and proper B vitamin supplementation, piracetam should be fine. You kinda have to specify more about your mechanistic needs other than contraindications - which is any vasodilating substance like gingko, vinco, or Hydergine, for example.

Also, this would have been completely fine mentioned in the thread as far as I'm concerned, but I love questions just as much as the next person, so bombs-away! (this ironically had to be posted here, because the PM system wasn't working - lulz.)


I believe that piracetam is OK with ritalin (methylphednidate). The key for me is in the low dose, and administration of piracetam (800mg, once or twice per day) about one hour after ritalin intake. I also read somewhere that milk thistle is supposed to "help" with methylphenidate, but I would have to research that again.

Along with ritalin I have taken:

150mg Picamilon (1 capsule) - before breakfast -> nervousness
800-1600mg Piracetam (1-2 capsules) -> OK
300-600mg Alpha GPC (1-2 capsules) -> nervousness, unfocusedness, crash symptoms
1-2 capsules Alpha Lipoic Acid (300mg) and Acetyl L-Carnitine (500mg) -> OK, enhanced effect
1 capsule Phosphatidylserine complex (100mg Phosphatidylserine) -> OK, enhanced effect. 2 capsules are too much.
750mg L-Tyrosine (1 capsule) -> very good combination with ritalin I believe.
400mg Pyritinol (1 capsule) -> not OK
400-600mg Sulbutiamine (2-3 capsules) -> same symptoms as with alpha GPC
450mg Bacopa (2 tablets) -> OK, if taken about 1-2 hours after ritalin
570mg Ashwaganda (1 tablet) -> OK if taken about 1-2 hours after ritalin
400-600mg Lion's Mane (2-3 tablets) -> no effect during the day, but taken before bedtime, I find it effective
1000mg Taurine (1 capsule) -> taken before bedtime, enhances sleep quality
3-5mg Melatonin (1 tablet) -> OK
700mg Rhodiola Rosea -> manic feeling
1.2g Eleuthero root -> OK
600mg Milk Thistle extract -> supposed to assist ritalin, make it more effective.

Which one of these would anyone find contraindicated?

Again, I would strongly advise against taking amphetamines to wake up. I religiously try to get enough sleep, and when I do not, I try to at least focus my energy for a few minutes in the morning or to exercise to overcome tiredness.

Edited by Heisenberg, 17 April 2010 - 09:23 AM.


#23 Animal

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 09:55 AM

Why are you concerned that it won't be sustainable? I've heard of it being so for other users, though there is obviously a limited amount of information available about the combination. This is my 3rd day on it. When i'm on this combination, it seems like it makes the ritalin last at least 3 times as long, so i only need to dose in the morning. I have been feeling a little 'burnt' in the morning, but i'm pretty sure that comes with the territory and the combo doesn't seem to have a marked crash aside form this. It goes away when I take it again, as would be expected.

Funk, would you have any advice on what I might try to do to make the stack more sustainable? And, also, is burning out the main concern of yours? I was considering adding rhodiola for adrenal support but i'm not sure I like the idea of taking two MAOIs and focalin at the same time. Essentially, I'm trying to keep the doses as low as possible. I've dropped it down to 1.25 mg this morning and it seems quite effective, though less manic/euphoric feeling, which isn't really a problem and not what i'm looking for. I noticed that when i combined adderall and selegiline i experienced almost no crash, no hangover, etc. I feel like it's possible that the selegiline might actually make these drugs more sustainable than they would be normally, but this is just a hunch.


I think it won't be sustainable in the sense that the combination will be subject to the same development of tolerance that you would see with ritalin alone. I don't doubt the deprenyl is multiplying the strength of the ritalin several-fold as well as prolonging its duration of effect but you are still in the "honeymoon period".

I do think its interesting that deprenyl increases the duration so much. Is alertness and motivation steady throughout the day or is only the focus/concentration component that is maintained? I ask because I don't see how deprenyl could extend the noradrenergic aspect of the ritalin effect.


I agree, anything that induces hypomania is by it's very nature unsustainable. There is a reason it is considered a psychological state of disorder. I expect you would crash pretty hard after doing that for a few weeks, and the burn out would be severe and sustained. Either that or it will progress to mania, and then the after effects will be even worse.

I would recommend that you reduce the dose of either the Deprenyl or the Ritalin until you no longer get the euphoria/hypomania. Ritalin is not something to be used recreationally, and I thought it would be fairly obvious that any substance that induces euphoria, will rapidly decrease hedonic tone until the Ritalin is required to prevent the onset of potent depression and apathy.

@Heisenberg
Ergh 15mg per day for over 400 consecutive days? I shudder to think of the state of your catecholaminergic system, I guess you're going to be dependent for life, not a healthy prospect.


@ Animal: I believe 15mg is a rather low dose, compared to what other ADHD patients take (up to 100mg). I do not get the euphoria, manic feeling that others mentioned, and I also do not use ritalin to wake up or stay awake longer. It simply helps me overcome negative ADHD effects like drifting off in conversations, reading the same sentence over and over etc. Thanks for your input, I should probably test for tolerance and take off from ritalin for a week or so to see what happens.

Is there a way to rebalance the catecholaminergic system, for example with antioxidants or other supplements?


It's encouraging to read this as you certainly seem to have the right attitude, and are using the Ritalin for specific therapeutic effect, rather then for generalised recreational/hypervigilance purposes, so that has positive implications in the first instance. It's just the 400 consecutive days that raised alarm bells, try to take one day off a week, or at least every two weeks. Your brain needs to maintain at least some semblance of nominal dopaminergic/noradrenergic tone, otherwise you will become utterly dependent.

Well certainly taking a general antioxidant will help to reduce oxidative stress from DA catabolism, but more specifically I think supplements such as Tyrosine, Fish Oils, infrequent Sulbutiamine only on off days, U. tomentosa (Cats Claw) and other mildly catecholaminergic agents such as the adaptogens in the Ginseng family, and Rhodiola Rosea. It would be ideal to only take the Rhodiola on your days off.

Personally it seems that you're just going to have to accept a certain degree of physical dependence, to go along with the obvious psychological dependence that will develop. But with your attitude, and the right supplementation I expect you can stay on it for many years while still maintaining your health and psychological well-being. Good luck!

Edited by Animal, 17 April 2010 - 09:56 AM.


#24 chrono

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 04:37 PM

Ritalin does very little for me, so I can't speak from personal experience. I'd check out this article: Using Zinc to Boost Ritalin's Effectiveness. I've also seen a few people say low doses of ALCAR potentiate the attentive effects, and L-theanine helps with any jitters/anxiety/crash you experience.

I couldn't find any references to memantine being able to prevent/reverse tolerance to methylphenidate. If it works for adderall, it seems like there's a chance, though. Anyone?

#25 VoidPointer

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 07:24 PM

Interesting article about the Zinc, I will have to incorporate that in my regimen. It think magnesium works well with MPH.


Generic Focalin IR(dexmethylphenidate) is the same price as generic Ritalin, and it costs me $10 copay per month. The Focalin XR is not available in generic and is very expensive(it does work well though).

As far as a regimen for taking the least amount of MPH/DexMPH, I have had success by also incorporating heavy exercise on the days when I do not take the meds. On my own I realized that my concentration is improved by intense exercise(I run sprint up hills until exhaustion for about 45 minutes). Also good for the heart and brain.

I would be interested in hearing from someone who has taken both Focalin and Modafinil (separately) and would compare the efficacy for inattentive ADD. There has been some recent literature that stated Modafinil really was not that different than MPH. Since DexMPH is a stripped down version of MPH I wonder how it compares to Modafinil (from an unbiased patient).

#26 cougar

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 07:49 PM

As far as a regimen for taking the least amount of MPH/DexMPH, I have had success by also incorporating heavy exercise on the days when I do not take the meds. On my own I realized that my concentration is improved by intense exercise(I run sprint up hills until exhaustion for about 45 minutes). Also good for the heart and brain.


I second that intensive exercise being very effective in improving ADD symptom. Even 10 minutes intermittent sprint works very good for me. Unfortunately strength training (30 minutes) is not as effective. The only thing is that I can't afford to do the sprint every day (only once a week now) otherwise I wouldn't be able to get full recovery before next training session.

Edited by cougar, 17 April 2010 - 07:53 PM.


#27 kalibtweli

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Posted 18 April 2010 - 01:02 AM

Interesting article about the Zinc, I will have to incorporate that in my regimen. It think magnesium works well with MPH.


Generic Focalin IR(dexmethylphenidate) is the same price as generic Ritalin, and it costs me $10 copay per month. The Focalin XR is not available in generic and is very expensive(it does work well though).

As far as a regimen for taking the least amount of MPH/DexMPH, I have had success by also incorporating heavy exercise on the days when I do not take the meds. On my own I realized that my concentration is improved by intense exercise(I run sprint up hills until exhaustion for about 45 minutes). Also good for the heart and brain.

I would be interested in hearing from someone who has taken both Focalin and Modafinil (separately) and would compare the efficacy for inattentive ADD. There has been some recent literature that stated Modafinil really was not that different than MPH. Since DexMPH is a stripped down version of MPH I wonder how it compares to Modafinil (from an unbiased patient).


modafnil works about as well as caffeine for ADD, IME. dexmph is pretty good but it doesn't have quite the anti inflammatory effect of regular methylphenidate for me.

Edited by kalibtweli, 18 April 2010 - 01:02 AM.


#28 brain

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Posted 18 April 2010 - 01:06 AM

Just to follow up, i'm starting to have second thoughts about this deprenyl/focalin combination. I've been having low-grade headaches and today I was having chest pains. I took a full 2.5 mg today in two divided doses. An hour after the second dose I started getting the chest pains, felt like I was in a dream and generally had the zombie-effect. I was also around people around this time and aside from seeming very unenthusiastic and detached I my articulation skills were way below par. "do you know when he got...I mean gets...got...gets off work?" I'm not sure what's up with that, but it was embarrassing.

I'm going to lower the dose to .75 mg 2x/day (which with the deprenyl might actually be like taking 5mg/day = 10mg ritalin/day.) I'm not going to take the deprenyl anymore, and i'll raise my dose accordingly over time. I'm also going to add alpha-gpc to my stack, which I'm thinking might help clear up some of this fog the dexmethylphenidate seems to be causing. Is ritalin known for this sort of thing? I've felt very aloof, spacey, detached. I did stuff today like walk into traffic and get on the wrong subway stop, being completely oblivious to my surroundings. aside from the alpha-gpc, i'll be adding rhodiola rosea back in, which should help prevent me from burning out as hard and help keep my adrenals from being taxed as much. Oh, i'll have to add the zinc too.

any thoughts/suggestions?

Edited by brain, 18 April 2010 - 01:09 AM.


#29 kalibtweli

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Posted 18 April 2010 - 03:19 AM

Interesting article about the Zinc, I will have to incorporate that in my regimen. It think magnesium works well with MPH.


Generic Focalin IR(dexmethylphenidate) is the same price as generic Ritalin, and it costs me $10 copay per month. The Focalin XR is not available in generic and is very expensive(it does work well though).

As far as a regimen for taking the least amount of MPH/DexMPH, I have had success by also incorporating heavy exercise on the days when I do not take the meds. On my own I realized that my concentration is improved by intense exercise(I run sprint up hills until exhaustion for about 45 minutes). Also good for the heart and brain.

I would be interested in hearing from someone who has taken both Focalin and Modafinil (separately) and would compare the efficacy for inattentive ADD. There has been some recent literature that stated Modafinil really was not that different than MPH. Since DexMPH is a stripped down version of MPH I wonder how it compares to Modafinil (from an unbiased patient).


would like to see some cites that indicate modafinil = mph. modafnil will likely be much more activating than dexmph.

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#30 mwasnidge

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Posted 18 April 2010 - 02:43 PM

Interesting article about the Zinc, I will have to incorporate that in my regimen. It think magnesium works well with MPH.


Generic Focalin IR(dexmethylphenidate) is the same price as generic Ritalin, and it costs me $10 copay per month. The Focalin XR is not available in generic and is very expensive(it does work well though).

As far as a regimen for taking the least amount of MPH/DexMPH, I have had success by also incorporating heavy exercise on the days when I do not take the meds. On my own I realized that my concentration is improved by intense exercise(I run sprint up hills until exhaustion for about 45 minutes). Also good for the heart and brain.

I would be interested in hearing from someone who has taken both Focalin and Modafinil (separately) and would compare the efficacy for inattentive ADD. There has been some recent literature that stated Modafinil really was not that different than MPH. Since DexMPH is a stripped down version of MPH I wonder how it compares to Modafinil (from an unbiased patient).



I take Focalin XR 15mg daily. I have not tried Modafinil, but have experience with Adrafinil, which turns in to Modafinil in the body. There really isn't a comparison--dexmethylphenidate is tons more effective for ADHD. In my opinion, Modafinil/Provigil/Nuvigil are all vastly over rated and overpriced.




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