55 replies to this topic

[Connor MacLeod]

Thank you! I was getting really tired of being called a Marxist.

Actually, I always thought of you as more of a Stalinist.

Edited by Connor MacLeod, 11 September 2010 - 06:43 PM.

[niner]

Thank you! I was getting really tired of being called a Marxist.

Actually, I always thought of you as more of a Stalinist.

Lemme tell ya about my five year plan! -ИIИ3Я

[Brafarality]

Any form of expression should be permitted, provided, of course, it doesn't involve yelling "Fire!" in a movie theater.
It is not that burning the Quran is wrong or should be prohibited, it is that the vile and hateful way Terry Jones had planned to do it should be called out by compassionate peeps of the Republic.
(BTW: the Quran burning will not be taking place: http://www.cnn.com/2...dex.html?hpt=T2)

Flag burning?
Protest against tyranny and imperial oppression. Though, like it or not, US practices soft hegemony. much restraint, much kindness, much charity and sacrifice. For all US haters, it is annoying to hear this but it is undeniable. The openness of this democracy has kept a super power from becoming far more destructive and genocidal than it may otherwise have been.

Quran burning?
Redneck bigotry. Plain and simple. No ambiguity here. It is the type of person that would do this and who might attend a rally where it occurs: the worst of America. Non-contributors. Ignorant. Useless. Offering nothing to this nation and thinking themselves patriots. Not representing our core values and not bettering themselves enough so that we may continue leading the world, and, yet, the types that attend these rallies really feel they are the true patriots. They are closer to traitors or marginalized elements than anything.

Beheadings?
Not even worth commenting on. Beyond cruel and evil.

Invading sovereign nations and toppling legitimate leaders?
This one is obvious.

Stoning an adulterous woman?
Not going to increase international sympathy enough to prevent an eventual air strike by US, Israel or someone to take out nuclear facilities.

Flying planes into buildings full of innocent civilians?
Terror tactic. When a people cannot face another people on the field of battle, this is what happens. Is it ever justifiable? I don't think so. Not sure what to tell those who face oppression and colonialism, but this is cruel, tragic and not the way to counter.

OK, I digressed but had to sound off on the issues of the moment.

Edited by Brafarality, 11 September 2010 - 07:37 PM.

[eternaltraveler]

Its ridiculous that some random idiot burning a few books he bought from amazon.com puts anyone else's life in danger.

This is the same as that Danish cartoon fiasco. People died because of that, and the blame for those deaths does not rest with the Danish cartoonists.

The idiot pastor and his crazy church has every right in the world to express themselves with their nonviolent protest. The fact that this is debated and that government officials are using all the force they can wield to stop this event is disturbing.

"though I disagree with what you say, ill defend to the death your right to say it" -Voltaire

Edited by eternaltraveler, 11 September 2010 - 08:50 PM.

[niner]

The idiot pastor and his crazy church has every right in the world to express themselves with their nonviolent protest. The fact that this is debated and that government officials are using all the force they can wield to stop this event is disturbing.

They have a right to do it, at least in America they do, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. I don't see what's wrong with debating it- isn't that just more free speech? The thing about the government officials that should be heartening is that "all the force they can wield" appears to be calling the guy up and saying "please don't do it". I've heard no claims that any other pressure was brought on him by the government. In a lot of countries, they would have just locked him up or disappeared him, end of problem.

[niner]

Beheadings?
Not even worth commenting on. Beyond cruel and evil.

I don't really get this one. I'd much rather be quickly beheaded than tortured to death, napalmed, or waterboarded 183 times. I'd rather be beheaded than (lethally) shot in the stomach. There are a million things worse than beheadings. Where does it get its magical power over people's minds?

[rwac]

Where does it get its magical power over people's minds?

The fact that the you're still alive and possibly conscious for 5-10 seconds after being beheaded ?
I believe this was documented during the french revolution.

[medicineman]

Where does it get its magical power over people's minds?

The fact that the you're still alive and possibly conscious for 5-10 seconds after being beheaded ?
I believe this was documented during the french revolution.

Im not sure if it was documented, or it was just a myth that spread. An astute historian friend of mine blames the spread of this on the myth that when king louis the 16th was executed, his head held up, someone called his name, and he looked towards the caller.....

There has been observations of blinking, etc..... but the bottom line is, yes, you are technically alive a few seconds due to anaerobic metabolism, but you would not be aware AT ALL, and this is due to the massive cerebral hypovolemia immediately post decapitation. So the guillotine is probably a better way of execution (if you believe in the death penalty) then hanging. But id still prefer the lethal injection. The beheading done by the extremists is quite painful id say since they are butchering the head off rather than a clean slice by a guillotine.

So the top methods of execution from best to worse:

1. lethal injection. most merciful, painless, you are injected with barbiturates, benzos, and a curare based muscle paralytic, then given potassium chloride which stops your heart
2. guillotine. you are unaware after your head is off
3. electric shock,,,, very painful. but short lasting
4. hanging..... horrendous. coming from a country which executes by hanging, reports of people hanging for 20 minutes are uncommon, but not unheard of. the proper way to hang someone, is to snap their phrenic nerve so they can't breathe, but the executioners here dont seem to be uptodate with this medical fact, and sometimes the phrenic nerve remains intact, and the person is asphyxiated to death.

http://en.wikipedia....ital_punishment

there are some nasty ones in there. Boiling alive and the pendulum method are beyond belief.... definitely my least favorite.

[Ben]

Why burn when you can put it in the toilet?

(vid)

That toilet is too clean.

[cathological]

Remember Gitmo everybody? Of course you don't. Those democrat news personalities are really dropping the ball lately on that one! They must be preoccupied with much more important things! I just had an epiphany, let me know what you think.

The worst method of execution off the top of my head is being cooked alive. Being beheaded looks and sounds awful if done in the slow carving style, way worse than a guillotine would be. But I could imagine the sensation of dying that way would just be blood loss induced "light headedness".

[eternaltraveler]

They have a right to do it, at least in America they do, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. I don't see what's wrong with debating it- isn't that just more free speech? The thing about the government officials that should be heartening is that "all the force they can wield" appears to be calling the guy up and saying "please don't do it". I've heard no claims that any other pressure was brought on him by the government. In a lot of countries, they would have just locked him up or disappeared him, end of problem.

Debate whether or not they have the right to do it. Probably poor choice of words on my part.

It seems a bunch of others are burning Korans across America whether this pastor does or not. Its absolutely ridiculous its an issue at all. The people rioting in the streets need to understand not everyone in the world agrees with them and get over it. They can't be part of any kind of global community until they stop perpetuating violence vs non violent acts. This is what world leaders should really be denouncing.

When I was in kindergarten some kid called me a name and I pushed him down. I was the one that got in trouble and rightly so.

[Brafarality]

Beautiful tale:
http://www.cnn.com/2...dex.html?hpt=C2

[ChromodynamicGirl]

I have mixed feelings about this. If the person holding this ceremony was someone other then that sociopath, I might be disinterested in this whole thing, but knowing the man, and his stance on various topics, such as same sex marriage, I am disturbed. Is he the voice of America? Is that what the voice of America has descended to????

Most Americans are politically correct Progressives. The fear of a large contingent of racist, sexist rednecks is an imaginary boogeyman created to cast aspersions on and blame for all ills (like Jews). In fact, most 'conservatives' are also Progressives. I am far more concerned about Progressive social engineers and their destruction of the mechanisms of civil society than I am stupid old men and their dying religions.

[niner]

I have mixed feelings about this. If the person holding this ceremony was someone other then that sociopath, I might be disinterested in this whole thing, but knowing the man, and his stance on various topics, such as same sex marriage, I am disturbed. Is he the voice of America? Is that what the voice of America has descended to????

Most Americans are politically correct Progressives. The fear of a large contingent of racist, sexist rednecks is an imaginary boogeyman created to cast aspersions on and blame for all ills (like Jews). In fact, most 'conservatives' are also Progressives. I am far more concerned about Progressive social engineers and their destruction of the mechanisms of civil society than I am stupid old men and their dying religions.

CDG, this doesn't make sense to me. Can you explain what you mean by the terms 'conservative' and 'Progressive'?

[ChromodynamicGirl]

A Progressive is a person who believes in the engineering of social progress through the use of State mechanisms and psycho-social manipulation. It descends from the Social Gospel and various European socialist movements such as the Fabians. Modern Americans after WW2 are almost all in this political tradition, as are the European Social Democratic and Labour parties. Anything resembling a real American 'right' - whether one means anti-war America Firsters and libertarians, real classical liberals, left-decentralists or even the weird un-PC fascisti types - were annihilated by the Progressive victories from Roosevelt to Roosevelt.

[niner]

A Progressive is a person who believes in the engineering of social progress through the use of State mechanisms and psycho-social manipulation. It descends from the Social Gospel and various European socialist movements such as the Fabians. Modern Americans after WW2 are almost all in this political tradition, as are the European Social Democratic and Labour parties. Anything resembling a real American 'right' - whether one means anti-war America Firsters and libertarians, real classical liberals, left-decentralists or even the weird un-PC fascisti types - were annihilated by the Progressive victories from Roosevelt to Roosevelt.

I see. What do you make of the fact that many people who once called themselves "Liberals" are now calling themselves "Progressives"? Meanwhile, people who think of themselves as "Conservatives" see Liberals/Progressives as the antithesis of themselves. I guess if you're viewing from a vantage point sufficiently removed from the mainstream, Liberals and Conservatives look pretty similar.

[ChromodynamicGirl]

I see. What do you make of the fact that many people who once called themselves "Liberals" are now calling themselves "Progressives"?

They're finally being honest, because if there is anything they are not, it's liberal.

Meanwhile, people who think of themselves as "Conservatives" see Liberals/Progressives as the antithesis of themselves.

Superficial, irrelevant crap. I don't say they're all cynical, I just say that it's like Baptists and Pentacostals arguing amongst themselves. They're all variations on the same cult.

I guess if you're viewing from a vantage point sufficiently removed from the mainstream, Liberals and Conservatives look pretty similar.

Pretty much. They all believe in using theft and violence to satisfy their pet social engineering projects, and quite frankly Conservatives often have a More-PC-Than-Thou attitude. Look at the way the exactly copy the Progressive and Marxist slur of calling everyone a 'fascist'.

[medicineman]

I see. What do you make of the fact that many people who once called themselves "Liberals" are now calling themselves "Progressives"?

They're finally being honest, because if there is anything they are not, it's liberal.

Meanwhile, people who think of themselves as "Conservatives" see Liberals/Progressives as the antithesis of themselves.

Superficial, irrelevant crap. I don't say they're all cynical, I just say that it's like Baptists and Pentacostals arguing amongst themselves. They're all variations on the same cult.

I guess if you're viewing from a vantage point sufficiently removed from the mainstream, Liberals and Conservatives look pretty similar.

Pretty much. They all believe in using theft and violence to satisfy their pet social engineering projects, and quite frankly Conservatives often have a More-PC-Than-Thou attitude. Look at the way the exactly copy the Progressive and Marxist slur of calling everyone a 'fascist'.

They all believe in using theft and violence to satisfy their pet social engineering projects?

Expand please?

[niner]

They all believe in using theft and violence to satisfy their pet social engineering projects?

Expand please?

Taxation would be "theft" in the libertarian fringe universe, and building schools and roads would be the "pet social engineering projects".

[medicineman]

They all believe in using theft and violence to satisfy their pet social engineering projects?

Expand please?

Taxation would be "theft" in the libertarian fringe universe, and building schools and roads would be the "pet social engineering projects".

lol... What is up with libertarians, republicans, anti-muslims, racists, and imminst? is there something about imminst which attracts these people?

maybe its the blue.

[JLL]

Who here is racist? You need to look the word up in a dictionary, kiddo.

[ChromodynamicGirl]

Who here is racist? You need to look the word up in a dictionary, kiddo.

You mean you don't hate Scandinavians?

[medicineman]

Who here is racist? You need to look the word up in a dictionary, kiddo.

Yea sorry, not racist. Bigots is more like the proper word. Forgive me.

[medicineman]

Who here is racist? You need to look the word up in a dictionary, kiddo.

You mean you don't hate Scandinavians?

no, Scandinavians are cool. Its the third jew, third arab, third scandinavian, muslim, with a sprinkle of chinese somewhere up there, who happens to be a dual Canadian/American citizen.

Down with these people.

Edited by medicineman, 14 October 2010 - 02:12 PM.

[medicineman]

By the way, I already apologized for labeling this obtuse reverend the spokesman of the US. I lived in the US for 10 years, and my personal experience has been pleasant with most of Americans.

[Quanzhou]

I have mixed feelings about this. If the person holding this ceremony was someone other then that sociopath, I might be disinterested in this whole thing, but knowing the man, and his stance on various topics, such as same sex marriage, I am disturbed. Is he the voice of America? Is that what the voice of America has descended to????

He's a Christianist extremist. As such, he's no more the voice of America than Islamist extremists are the voice of Islam. Both give voice to the extremist subsets of their respective populations. The Florida pastor has been denounced from the highest levels of government, various religions, the press, the military and responsible people throughout the world. If the nut actually goes through with his plan, I would expect to see a large counter-demonstration and an enormous police presence to try to keep people from killing each other. It will be a Media Circus. Sadly, to much of the world, this crank will be the face of America.

Awesome response...


I wonder how many folks in America would be angered & upset to see the American flag burnt!?... I say respect to all.