46 replies to this topic

[Cless986]

Hi everyone, I recently met an amazing girl and now she is my girlfriend but she has a little problem,she suffers from hair loss :( , Its no that bad, she has long and beautiful silky hair but she complains a lot that her hair falls off a lot... :(
So... What supplements are good for her? I think the probable cause is genetic or stress, and she is an healthy 20 year old chinese female..., can deficiency of something (zinc, vitamins, etc) be the cause too? Thanks for the help

[aLurker]

Ketoconazole and minoxidil could help. Ask a doctor to do a full health check-up with blood work to see if there is an underlying reason.

[rwac]

I believe hair loss in women can be caused by PCOS, thyroid problems, anemia, etc.
Talk to a doctor, figure out what's going on, and then maybe supplements can help.

Edited by rwac, 02 October 2010 - 03:16 PM.

[leha]

Agree on Dr and blood work, but also, see if she's had any glucocoritcoids (like Prednisone), because those can mess you up in that regard for a long time.

I had hair loss after Prednisone, and it was not going away. I had two problems: fine hair that breaks easily, and hair becoming mature too quickly and falling out from the root. I did a bunch of things, and was able to fix the problem:

Optimal nutrition from high quality diet (this means tracking your foods in something like CRON-o-meter).
1 mg Melatonin at night (I later switched to just a single 50 mg 5-HTP once a week, during the day).
N-Acetylcisteine (600 mg/day).
Keratin treatments at the salon about every 10 weeks.
No more heat styling.

It might seem weird for someone with straight hair to get keratin treatments, and they are not cheap, but they keep the hair from constantly splitting, so if she has that problem, they are worth looking into.

On the above regimen, I went from losing hundreds of hairs a day to literally losing only about one a day, and my stylist swears my hair is also growing faster! (I'm not sure that's really possible, but it probably *seems* as though it is. )

[JLL]

I don't understand how anyone could lose only one hair a day... I think the average is 50-100 hairs per day.

[leha]

Well, only one or two that I can find. I kind of was going by what I see come out when I wash my hair, but I have also limited the amount of brushing, because my hair is pretty straight anyway, and with the keratin treatment, you brush it once and it's good for the whole day. Not seeing much in the brush, either, though. Maybe because I was losing so much hair for so long, now all the hairs left are fairly new, and so, not falling at a normal rate yet. I've read that, too, about 100 hairs a day being normal, but I think they're counting body hairs that are tiny and we don't see them. If you lost 100 hairs out of your head every day, your hair would be pretty thin, I think.

[dilenja]

Hi everyone, I recently met an amazing girl and now she is my girlfriend but she has a little problem,she suffers from hair loss :( , Its no that bad, she has long and beautiful silky hair but she complains a lot that her hair falls off a lot... :(
So... What supplements are good for her? I think the probable cause is genetic or stress, and she is an healthy 20 year old chinese female..., can deficiency of something (zinc, vitamins, etc) be the cause too? Thanks for the help

This seems like an interesting site you may be interested in; http://www.immortalhair.org/. As well, herbs from the east, which are alleged to be beneficial for hair loss include Jatamansi, gotu kola, and Fo-Ti. Nonetheless however, if her hair loss is excessive then it could be indicative of an underlying hormone problem or something more serious, in which case it would most definately be in her best interest to see her physician for a checkup and testing.

[hamishm00]

As Alurker mentioned, your best short term bet is to immediately fire up minoxidil and ketaconozol shampoo and cream. Then look for underlying reasons as other members have outlined. I would also give nisim shampoo a go.

[dilenja]

ketaconozol is certainly shown to contribute to increased hair density, however I would exercise caution prior to initiating treatment with Minoxidil as it could accelerate shedding for the first four weeks of treatment and there is the possbility it could contribute to unwanted facial hair growth if not used very carefully.

As Alurker mentioned, your best short term bet is to immediately fire up minoxidil and ketaconozol shampoo and cream. Then look for underlying reasons as other members have outlined. I would also give nisim shampoo a go.

[hamishm00]

It's very difficult to exercise caution because if you get shedding (which I didn't) there is very little you can do about it except keep going, and as far as the facial hair goes just try and spray it directly on the weak spots. In any event, most people can put up with unwanted facial hair in exchange for a full head of hair.

[dilenja]

Given that the individual who would be using this product is a 20yr old female, I suspect she may weigh the trade-offs associated with increased facial hair differently than the people who typically use Minoxidil. Minoxidil is certainly a good product for hair loss, however consideration of the disadvantages alongside the advantages is an essential aspect for any individual to make an informed decision.

[hamishm00]

You really have to screw up with the spray, so the risk of facial hair is small. Weigh it up in that context.

[Raccoon]

IMPORTANT! First of all she should see a real doctor and try to find possible cause for this, like:

• anemia?
• thyroid?
• pcos?
• circullatory disease?
• drugs she is taking? (warfarin?, coumarin analogs? antihistamines? ranitidine? heparin? accutnane? chondroitin? b5?)

And then... can make use of my notes:

topicals that work:

• minoxidil 5% (proven but can be absorbed systemically -> use max. 1x day )
• miconazole 1-2% (works better than mino, use only on temples and front, large amount can induce headache (nitrate?) )
• ketoconazole 2% (proven topical anti-androgen, used 2-3 times a week )
• saw palmetto 1% added to shampooo

glicerine alternative skin friendly shampoo based on (important step):

• sorbitol (HIPP body & hair wash gel )
• polysorbate 20 (neutrogenna face gel)

skin acidifers that are used to reduce head yeast lever and support healthy head flora:

• lactic acid 2%
• acetic acid or vinegar rinse 2%

best hormone balancing herbs:

• saw palmetto (herbal anti-androgen, weak estrogenic)
• maca root (balances hormones in case of pcos)
• vitex berry (balances hormone in case of pcos)

anti-inflammatory food:

• taurine (reduces beta alanine -> less histamine?)
• blueberries (less hair itch, anegdoticaly)
• quercitine (simple anti-histamine, but short lived)
• artichoke (for digestion and skin, can even eliminate psiorasis)

sulfur sources:

• whey (cysteine and methionine rich, makes hair thicker and shinnier)
• taurine 2-4g (stops hair itch, makes hair thicker, cysteine source?)
• biosil (thicker hair, sulfur source)

Edited by Raccoon, 04 October 2010 - 07:01 PM.

[aLurker]

topicals that work:

• minoxidil 5% (proven but can be absorbed systemically -> use max. 1x day )
• miconazole 1-2% (works better than mino, use only on temples and front, large amount can induce headache (nitrate?) )
• ketoconazole 2% (proven topical anti-androgen, used 2-3 times a week )
• saw palmetto 1% added to shampooo

Interesting advice there. I can see the theoretical rationale for saw palmetto although I haven't seen any evidence there. But what really interests me: the rationale behind miconazole. I've heard of its use on forums but I haven't seen anything that might indicate that using both miconazole and ketoconazole would be better than ketoconazole alone. Both are antifungals and ketoconazole has the added benefit of being a proven anti-androgen, so why even bother with adding miconazole, is it due to anecdotes or something else?

Also: what makes you say it is better than mino?

Just curious.

Edit: this was all I could find.

Edited by aLurker, 04 October 2010 - 08:00 PM.

[Cless986]

IMPORTANT! First of all she should see a real doctor and try to find possible cause for this, like:

• anemia?
• thyroid?
• pcos?
• circullatory disease?
• drugs she is taking? (warfarin?, coumarin analogs? antihistamines? ranitidine? heparin? accutnane? chondroitin? b5?)

And then... can make use of my notes:

topicals that work:

• minoxidil 5% (proven but can be absorbed systemically -> use max. 1x day )
• miconazole 1-2% (works better than mino, use only on temples and front, large amount can induce headache (nitrate?) )
• ketoconazole 2% (proven topical anti-androgen, used 2-3 times a week )
• saw palmetto 1% added to shampooo

glicerine alternative skin friendly shampoo based on (important step):

• sorbitol (HIPP body & hair wash gel )
• polysorbate 20 (neutrogenna face gel)

skin acidifers that are used to reduce head yeast lever and support healthy head flora:

• lactic acid 2%
• acetic acid or vinegar rinse 2%

best hormone balancing herbs:

• saw palmetto (herbal anti-androgen, weak estrogenic)
• maca root (balances hormones in case of pcos)
• vitex berry (balances hormone in case of pcos)

anti-inflammatory food:

• taurine (reduces beta alanine -> less histamine?)
• blueberries (less hair itch, anegdoticaly)
• quercitine (simple anti-histamine, but short lived)
• artichoke (for digestion and skin, can even eliminate psiorasis)

sulfur sources:

• whey (cysteine and methionine rich, makes hair thicker and shinnier)
• taurine 2-4g (stops hair itch, makes hair thicker, cysteine source?)
• biosil (thicker hair, sulfur source)

wow!!! thanks bro, it was the info I was searching for My gf is gonna get a full checkup next week
But I was searching for alopecia supplements in iherb and found this, seems good cuz of the great reviews, and
some avalon thickening shampoo... can you recommend buying those? thanks!

[Raccoon]

Interesting advice there. I can see the theoretical rationale for saw palmetto although I haven't seen any evidence there. But what really interests me: the rationale behind miconazole. I've heard of its use on forums but I haven't seen anything that might indicate that using both miconazole and ketoconazole would be better than ketoconazole alone. Both are antifungals and ketoconazole has the added benefit of being a proven anti-androgen, so why even bother with adding miconazole, is it due to anecdotes or something else?

Also: what makes you say it is better than mino?

I mostly relay on my personal experience and observations - that's about 9 years of experimentation. I halted my androgenic hair loss fully

I think that saw palmetto is a relatively potent herbal anti-androgen and anti-inflammatory agent. There is a post somewhere on ImmInst with a unusual case of hearing loss with saw palmetto and revovery with magnesium. I think that proves pretty well the idea that saw palmetto can work as strong as avodart / propecia in some cases (outer auditory cell loss is also a side efect of anti-androgens esp. those drugs). There are also anecdotes here of Nisim Shampoo (based on saw palmetto) working very well. Saw palmetto calms the skin and alters hair growth in a beneficial way on my scalp.

What makes me say miconazole is a better that minoxidil? My personal experience I don't know the exact mechanism (no studies)... but with topical miconazole my hairs grow like crazy. Perhaps it works as an anti-androgen just like ketoconazole, perhaps it is the board antifungal function miconazole has, or it works as local immunity suppresor... or it is because the nitrate molecule (plants grow on nitrates rich soil better, could be the same mechanism). It's not purely subjective - there are many reports of this hair beneficial effect, just search the internet.

wow!!! thanks bro, it was the info I was searching for My gf is gonna get a full checkup next week
But I was searching for alopecia supplements in iherb and found this, seems good cuz of the great reviews, and
some avalon thickening shampoo... can you recommend buying those? thanks!

No problem

Doctor's Best, Best Hyaluronic Acid, With Chondroitin Sulfate, 180 Capsules looks nice, but I found reports of chondroin sulfate and glucosamine suflate causing hair loss maybe because action simlilar to heparine. Here the chondroitine dose i pretty low so it should't be a problem.


My opinion is that a good shampoo with non irritant ingredients is basic in any hair regime. My hair don't agree with most shampoos availble on the market. Most of them cause oily scalp and itch. And again I don't know exacly what science is hidden behind sorbitol and similar molecule: polysorbate 20, but sugar alcohols work especially good as shampoos. I have the feeling that they kill bacteria and yeast by causing change in osmotic pressure (100% glucose and salt are antibacterial because of the same reason). They are ultra gently and suppress scalp oil that feeds yeast and bacteria.

Also piroctone olamine reduces itch, in some studies it is shown as a potent immune suppresor compared to cyclosporine with btw. causes hair growth.


Avalon thickening shampoo looks good, but I would be afraid of the long term effect of rosmary extract (pretty potent herb that can change genes expression and do more harm in the long run).

Edited by Raccoon, 05 October 2010 - 12:47 PM.

[triplecrown]

Biotin

[JLL]

A few things that were not already suggested:

Soy Isoflavones Grow Hair by Increasing IGF-1 in the Skin

Capsaicin and Soy Isoflavones Promote Hair Growth

Topical Retinoids Increase Hair Growth in Most People

Zinc Pyrithione Reduces Shedding and Moderately Promotes Hair Growth

Do Flax Lignans Reduce Hair Loss from MPB?

The Bioavailability of Flax Lignans from Flax Seeds and Supplements

[aLurker]

A few things that were not already suggested:

Soy Isoflavones Grow Hair by Increasing IGF-1 in the Skin

Capsaicin and Soy Isoflavones Promote Hair Growth

Topical Retinoids Increase Hair Growth in Most People

Zinc Pyrithione Reduces Shedding and Moderately Promotes Hair Growth

Do Flax Lignans Reduce Hair Loss from MPB?

The Bioavailability of Flax Lignans from Flax Seeds and Supplements

Awesome stuff there, I didn't know about the capsaicin and soy isoflavones study - VERY interesting. Aren't you concerned about potential downsides regarding soy and capsaicin though, especially long-term? A few other posts here about both come to mind.

[hamishm00]

IMPORTANT! First of all she should see a real doctor and try to find possible cause for this, like:

• anemia?
• thyroid?
• pcos?
• circullatory disease?
• drugs she is taking? (warfarin?, coumarin analogs? antihistamines? ranitidine? heparin? accutnane? chondroitin? b5?)

And then... can make use of my notes:

topicals that work:

• minoxidil 5% (proven but can be absorbed systemically -> use max. 1x day )
• miconazole 1-2% (works better than mino, use only on temples and front, large amount can induce headache (nitrate?) )
• ketoconazole 2% (proven topical anti-androgen, used 2-3 times a week )
• saw palmetto 1% added to shampooo

glicerine alternative skin friendly shampoo based on (important step):

• sorbitol (HIPP body & hair wash gel )
• polysorbate 20 (neutrogenna face gel)

skin acidifers that are used to reduce head yeast lever and support healthy head flora:

• lactic acid 2%
• acetic acid or vinegar rinse 2%

best hormone balancing herbs:

• saw palmetto (herbal anti-androgen, weak estrogenic)
• maca root (balances hormones in case of pcos)
• vitex berry (balances hormone in case of pcos)

anti-inflammatory food:

• taurine (reduces beta alanine -> less histamine?)
• blueberries (less hair itch, anegdoticaly)
• quercitine (simple anti-histamine, but short lived)
• artichoke (for digestion and skin, can even eliminate psiorasis)

sulfur sources:

• whey (cysteine and methionine rich, makes hair thicker and shinnier)
• taurine 2-4g (stops hair itch, makes hair thicker, cysteine source?)
• biosil (thicker hair, sulfur source)

This is an awesome post, and in my opinion is pretty much the gold standard post so far on this forum for hair loss supplements / topicals. Nice one.

[JLL]

A few things that were not already suggested:

Soy Isoflavones Grow Hair by Increasing IGF-1 in the Skin

Capsaicin and Soy Isoflavones Promote Hair Growth

Topical Retinoids Increase Hair Growth in Most People

Zinc Pyrithione Reduces Shedding and Moderately Promotes Hair Growth

Do Flax Lignans Reduce Hair Loss from MPB?

The Bioavailability of Flax Lignans from Flax Seeds and Supplements

Awesome stuff there, I didn't know about the capsaicin and soy isoflavones study - VERY interesting. Aren't you concerned about potential downsides regarding soy and capsaicin though, especially long-term? A few other posts here about both come to mind.

Soy isoflavones seem pretty positive to me overall; I'm less enthusiastic about consuming actual soy foods. Which downsides are you referring to?

As for capsaicin, I can see a potential cancer risk through IGF-1, but the amount used in that study were within the limits consumed by populations who eat spicy food. So no, I'm not concerned at this point. But I may change my mind if negative evidence comes along.

[leha]

From my personal experience, soy isoflavones can aggravate fibroids in women who have them. I actually didn't know I had one until I started taking genistein. It made it hurt and I ended up spending a bunch of money on diagnostic procedures only to find out the fibroid was there, but didn't really need any immediate attention, and it had probably been there quite awhile. Stopping taking isoflavones stopped the problem.

Again, this is just one woman's experience, but phytoestrogens really to bind to estrogen receptors, and the effects they have from there are still being explored, so WTTW.

[Logan]

MSM-sulphur source-enhances collagen production
Gotu Kola-increases blood flow and increases collagen synthesis
Fish Oil-may help regulate hormones involved in hair loss
Jarrowsil-an alternative to Biosil
NanoMinox FMS-topical treatment- http://www.google.co...9UUQzMQ&cad=rja

[nowayout]

Soy isoflavones seem pretty positive to me overall; I'm less enthusiastic about consuming actual soy foods. Which downsides are you referring to?

It might not be a great idea for men to eat phytoestrogens. Prostate enlargement, male breast growth, and sexual problems are just some of the side effects that have been attributed to too much soy.

[aLurker]

A few things that were not already suggested:

Soy Isoflavones Grow Hair by Increasing IGF-1 in the Skin

Capsaicin and Soy Isoflavones Promote Hair Growth

Topical Retinoids Increase Hair Growth in Most People

Zinc Pyrithione Reduces Shedding and Moderately Promotes Hair Growth

Do Flax Lignans Reduce Hair Loss from MPB?

The Bioavailability of Flax Lignans from Flax Seeds and Supplements

Awesome stuff there, I didn't know about the capsaicin and soy isoflavones study - VERY interesting. Aren't you concerned about potential downsides regarding soy and capsaicin though, especially long-term? A few other posts here about both come to mind.

Soy isoflavones seem pretty positive to me overall; I'm less enthusiastic about consuming actual soy foods. Which downsides are you referring to?

As for capsaicin, I can see a potential cancer risk through IGF-1, but the amount used in that study were within the limits consumed by populations who eat spicy food. So no, I'm not concerned at this point. But I may change my mind if negative evidence comes along.

I'm mostly referring to the potential dangers of prolonged consumption of phytoestrogens but also IGF-1 due to capsaicin as you mentioned. A more specific example of what consuming soy isoflavones can lead to is not only decreased DHT but also decreased free testosterone which is far less desirable. Percentage-wise after only three months: DHT was lowered to 82% of baseline while free testosterone was 95% of baseline and while total testosterone was non-significantly a tad higher you shouldn't discount the inherent risks of lowering free testosterone and messing with your hormones in general. I truly believe this is far less risky than the side effect riddled horror-show that is oral finesteride but it deserves a mention that finesteride also lowers DHT and free testosterone while increasing total testosterone. If anyone has time to compare to what degree you're most welcome to. Someone also posted a link to a topical product containing finasteride and that might also not be entirely risk free because of systemic absorption.

The soy isoflavones study I linked to suggests it might be beneficial to your prostate though and awesome hair always looks nice in the mirror but you might want to do more research about the risks you're taking in your endeavour. I might very well try this myself in the future and you may be right about it being an overall positive thing, I certainly hope so. Yet I urge everyone to keep an eye out for related side effects and seriously reconsider if they experience any at all.

Risk taking is fine just make sure you're all making informed decisions.

Edited by aLurker, 10 October 2010 - 10:38 PM.

[chrono]

My favorite thing to think about while enjoying tofu or tempeh: brain shrinkage.

Also see this identically-titled thread in this same forum: Supplements for hair loss.

HairlossTalk is a good forum for more info, though it's essentially all anecdote, with like one person who actually posts studies.

[aLurker]

My favorite thing to think about while enjoying tofu or tempeh: brain shrinkage.

Also see this identically-titled thread in this same forum: Supplements for hair loss.

HairlossTalk is a good forum for more info, though it's essentially all anecdote, with like one person who actually posts studies.

Actually I believe it's only tofu that has a correlation to brain shrinkage, tempeh on the other hand seems downright beneficial. I don't know why though but if I had to guess it might be because of either tempeh's higher free genistein due to fermentation or some say due to high folate levels.

About the tofu it is speculated that the correlation between tofu and cognitive decline is due to the presence of formaldehyde in Indonesian tofu, though I'm obviously not linking to a reputable source there it might be an explanation. Yet a study of Japanese men residing in Hawaii seems to also show the correlation between tofu and dementia although I have no idea about preservatives used in Japan during the time they ate the most tofu I'd avoid tofu altogether just to be safe. Soy isoflavones on the other hand seems a lot safer and has promising studies on beneficial properties on cognition short term. I'd love to know more about the long term effects of them though. Here is some thread about soy with a few studies mentioned.

[tommix]

Well, only one or two that I can find. I kind of was going by what I see come out when I wash my hair, but I have also limited the amount of brushing, because my hair is pretty straight anyway, and with the keratin treatment, you brush it once and it's good for the whole day. Not seeing much in the brush, either, though. Maybe because I was losing so much hair for so long, now all the hairs left are fairly new, and so, not falling at a normal rate yet. I've read that, too, about 100 hairs a day being normal, but I think they're counting body hairs that are tiny and we don't see them. If you lost 100 hairs out of your head every day, your hair would be pretty thin, I think.

If you don't see them -it doesn't mean that only few hairs falls off. It's IMPOSSIBLE. HUNDREDS of hairs falls off, all my life i live with girls..and i know. look at the carpet, bath and so on.. Best palce is carpet, need to brush it to see the HUGE ball of hairs :D
No i don't have any animal besides humans.

To the guy of the topic starter - if in her family nobody had this-then it's kinda good, this just means she ill in some way, but not genetics. even if genetics, it shouldnt be at her age.

Edited by tommix, 01 December 2010 - 03:48 PM.

[JLL]

Soy isoflavones seem pretty positive to me overall; I'm less enthusiastic about consuming actual soy foods. Which downsides are you referring to?

It might not be a great idea for men to eat phytoestrogens. Prostate enlargement, male breast growth, and sexual problems are just some of the side effects that have been attributed to too much soy.

Do you have studies to support your case? From what I've read, isoflavones *prevent* prostate enlargement.

I agree with aLurker though that messing with your hormone levels may bring unintended side effects. But then again, the levels of those same hormones vary greatly between individuals, so I'm not so sure that changing your hormone levels is necessarily a bad thing.

Theoretically I can see how increased IGF-1 from capsaicin could be a problem, but AFAIK, in the studies where mice are fed capsaicin, they don't get more cancer than the controls. And I don't think cancer is more prevalent in cultures where a lot of chili is consumed.

In any case, cancer is a lot more complicated than just IGF-1; see for example this paper, which shows capsaicin to inhibit prostate cancer. Seems to inhibit pancreatic and lung cancer too.

[aLurker]

Soy isoflavones seem pretty positive to me overall; I'm less enthusiastic about consuming actual soy foods. Which downsides are you referring to?

It might not be a great idea for men to eat phytoestrogens. Prostate enlargement, male breast growth, and sexual problems are just some of the side effects that have been attributed to too much soy.

Do you have studies to support your case? From what I've read, isoflavones *prevent* prostate enlargement.

I agree with aLurker though that messing with your hormone levels may bring unintended side effects. But then again, the levels of those same hormones vary greatly between individuals, so I'm not so sure that changing your hormone levels is necessarily a bad thing.

Theoretically I can see how increased IGF-1 from capsaicin could be a problem, but AFAIK, in the studies where mice are fed capsaicin, they don't get more cancer than the controls. And I don't think cancer is more prevalent in cultures where a lot of chili is consumed.

In any case, cancer is a lot more complicated than just IGF-1; see for example this paper, which shows capsaicin to inhibit prostate cancer. Seems to inhibit pancreatic and lung cancer too.

What do you think is the best way to supplement with the standardized dose of capsaicin they used in the hair loss study?