46 replies to this topic

[nowayout]

Soy isoflavones seem pretty positive to me overall; I'm less enthusiastic about consuming actual soy foods. Which downsides are you referring to?

It might not be a great idea for men to eat phytoestrogens. Prostate enlargement, male breast growth, and sexual problems are just some of the side effects that have been attributed to too much soy.

Do you have studies to support your case? From what I've read, isoflavones *prevent* prostate e

Are we talking about the same thing? I was warning against intake of phytoestrogens, not isoflavones.

[tintinet]

Soy isoflavones seem pretty positive to me overall; I'm less enthusiastic about consuming actual soy foods. Which downsides are you referring to?

It might not be a great idea for men to eat phytoestrogens. Prostate enlargement, male breast growth, and sexual problems are just some of the side effects that have been attributed to too much soy.

Do you have studies to support your case? From what I've read, isoflavones *prevent* prostate e

Are we talking about the same thing? I was warning against intake of phytoestrogens, not isoflavones.

Isoflavones are secondary vegetable substances, which can act as estrogens in the body.

[Rejuvena]

I was wondering about taking saw palmetto myself. I'm a female in mid twenties with androgenic alopecia, i did hormone tests and I have slightly elevated testosterone, elevated dhea, high prolactin and low estrogens. I've been using minoxidil with minimal effects and I'm takind diane 35 to increase estrogens to slow down/stop hairloss.
My question- since Saw Palmetto inhibits DHT effect on follicles - less testosterone is changed into DHT, does it mean it will increase my free testosterone levels even if im taking an estrogen increasing pill which should muffle testosterone as well?

Since saw palmetto inhibits testosterone conversion to DHT, wouldnt even elevated levels of testosterone be harmless to hair since they cant be converted to DHT and only testosterone converted to DHT is harmful to hair follicles (am I right here?)?
I've read many success stories about women who took saw palmetto and regained their frontline hair and their hair at the crown.
Cant really ask an endocrinologist that, so dont ask me to, Ive been to a few and they have trouble just regulating basic estrogen deficiency, are clueless on the effects of diet and have never heard about saw palmetto or other supplements that help regulate hormones and hairloss. They just stick with one darn therapy for ages never searching for anything new that would actually help. Anyway, end rant, Most important thing is if any of you can offer some advice insight on the question in bold.

[niner]

My question- since Saw Palmetto inhibits DHT effect on follicles - less testosterone is changed into DHT, does it mean it will increase my free testosterone levels even if im taking an estrogen increasing pill which should muffle testosterone as well?

Since saw palmetto inhibits testosterone conversion to DHT, wouldnt even elevated levels of testosterone be harmless to hair since they cant be converted to DHT and only testosterone converted to DHT is harmful to hair follicles (am I right here?)?

You might want to check out this discussion of saw palmetto for hair loss. Sounds like it doesn't affect DHT levels, but rather alters DHT binding. You need to watch out for saw palmetto vendors who promise more than they can deliver, using selected testimonials or just lying. There's finasteride, which is a teratogen, so women of child-bearing age would have to not get pregnant while using it, but it's discussed here. It appeared useless in post-menopausal women; may or may not work in pre-menopausal women.

[August59]

Here is another forum that is pretty dedicated to hair loss, but I have no idea what their mentality is, as I just wondered up on it looking for Ecklonia Kava information.

http://immortalhair....l-hair-regrowth

[1kgcoffee]

Saw palmetto doesn't block 5-ar. The phytosterols in it bind to androgen receptors as niner has pointed out. If you want to go that route, it's more effective to take straight beta-sitosterol, but there are some negative long term side effects.

[Logan]

Could you Please share those long term side effects?

[1kgcoffee]

Loss of strength, some loss of libido and penile hardness, when I was taking it I noticed very mild gynecomastia. Since it has statin like effects you could expect decreased levels of CoQ10. I also remember experiencing constipation at higher doses. According to wikipedia, phytosterol accumulation can lead to premature CAD (funny how a cholesterol lowering supplement will do that!) I took it for about nine months and did notice some regrowth but it wasn't worth the risk. It was a preventative measure since I'm at the very early stages of male pattern baldness.

Edited by 1kgcoffee, 26 August 2012 - 08:22 PM.

[Logan]

Anyone using miconazole or ketaconazole?

I just started miconazole 2 weeks ago. I will keep you guys posted. I'm also on the very early stages of mpb

[boylan]

I'm experimenting with topical Cetirizine. It's a weak PDG2 inhibitor but it's the best we have for now.

http://www.nature.co...aldness-1.10277

[nowayout]

Anyone using miconazole or ketaconazole?

I just started miconazole 2 weeks ago. I will keep you guys posted. I'm also on the very early stages of mpb

I use 2% ketoconazole shampoo. It seems to help somewhat. There are a couple of studies supporting its use for MPB, with similar effectiveness as minoxidil. It is thought to inhibit androgens locally in the scalp and it has been shown to increase hair diameter and, for some guys, hair count.

I also use minoxidil 5% (Rogaine) (have for many years) and over the last year added bimatoprost (Latisse). The bimatoprost has definitely helped a little.

[Logic]

"...research found PGD2 prevents hair growth, and mice that were genetically inclined to produce higher levels of PGD2 had inhibited hair growth. The research also found PGD2 levels were much higher in balding scalp tissue than nonbalding scalp tissue. The paper suggested one of the receptors involved in production of PGD2, GPR44, would therefore be a therapeutic targets for androgenic alopecia in both men and women with hair loss and thinning..."
http://en.wikipedia....rostaglandin_D2

"...aspirin reduced only PGD2 by 86%..."
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18223672

I crushed up 2 asperin into my shampoo and started taking an 81mg asperin about a month ago.
Its too soon to say if its had any effect on my receeding hairline, but it does not seem to be getting any worse.

[zorba990]

"...research found PGD2 prevents hair growth, and mice that were genetically inclined to produce higher levels of PGD2 had inhibited hair growth. The research also found PGD2 levels were much higher in balding scalp tissue than nonbalding scalp tissue. The paper suggested one of the receptors involved in production of PGD2, GPR44, would therefore be a therapeutic targets for androgenic alopecia in both men and women with hair loss and thinning..."
http://en.wikipedia....rostaglandin_D2

"...aspirin reduced only PGD2 by 86%..."
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18223672

I crushed up 2 asperin into my shampoo and started taking an 81mg asperin about a month ago.
Its too soon to say if its had any effect on my receeding hairline, but it does not seem to be getting any worse.

Maybe Oral curcumin:
http://carcin.oxford...9/1671.full.pdf

http://www.letstalkh...n-8oz-p/617.htm

Edited by zorba990, 28 August 2012 - 02:41 AM.

[Logic]

Thx Zorba990

So circumin is a potent inhibitor of PGE2.
I'll give it a try.

I suppose the question becomes: Is the inhibition of PGE2 the best way to prevent hair loss?

Any ideas on the effects of toppical application?

[boylan]

Be careful. Not all Prostaglandins are bad. It's PGD2 that you want to modulate.

[sapentia]

Be careful. Not all Prostaglandins are bad. It's PGD2 that you want to modulate.

Regarding PGD2; I bought a fair amount of luteolin a few months back after reading that particular study on hairloss. I quit taking the luteolin though because while I believe it significantly reduced PGD2 levels it also had a very detrimental effect on scar tissue formation. In other words, cuts and scrapes were healing terribly with much more pronounced scarring than I was used to seeing in myself. It turns out that PGD2 is an important component in the formation of healthy scar tissue, at least if I remember the research correctly.

I didn't try the topical application route though which could be worth looking into.

[Logic]

Oops; PGD2 not PGE2 is what I meant.