56 replies to this topic

[Iceebear19727]

Before I begin, here is some base info for me:
21 years old
Live in the US
Female
140 lbs
3.4GPA - Junior in college - Above average intelligence
Typical college microwave diet, high carbs, fats, sugars...=/
Occasionally active
Poor self-discipline, poor motivation, poor focus, social anxiety
Overall happy outlook

Past substances used:
Alcohol = Don't like it. Makes me very quiet, reserved, not want to be around people.
Pot = Makes me paranoid, upset, anxious. Don't like it.
Cocaine = Love it. Has limited effects though compared to most people.
Ecstasy = Favorite. Though the last two years of my drug life, pills had no positive effect, just the negative comedown effects the next day. Even after taking 4-6 pills.
Hydrocodone = Rarely used. Small effect after taking 2 10mg. Gave it up.
Mushrooms = Taken once. Bad trip, paranoia, extremely self-conscious.\
5-HTP = Helped with negative effects of ex. When taken daily, didn't eat for days, and was even more lethargic than usual. Too much serotonin? Idk.


I need help with finding a nootropic that works. If you don't care about my backstory, please just skip to the ******** below. =)



I became interested in nootropics because I have taken Adderall on many occasions, and am in love with it. I never took it as recreational drug exactly, just one or two a day for school. It also alleviated almost all of my social anxiety which is pretty moderate. I ended up being caught by an undercover cop buying them, was arrested and charged, and am now on probation. After being depressed and stressed out, I went to a psychologist and told her my story. She asked more about why I had been taking them, and on the 3rd visit, had me take a couple tests for ADHD. To my utter surprise, I failed (or passed?), pointing to the diagnosis of ADHD. I never seriously thought I had this because I have always done well in school, even if not up to what I am capable of.

Reasons I took the Adderall was because it:
-Woke me up and got me to class(I'm used to ~14 hours of sleep and still being exhausted every day. Went to only 2-3 classes/week out of 10)
-Helped me pay attention
-Helped me begin, and finish assignments when I start them, and not the night before. (I have never done an assignment earlier than the night before. Ever.)
-Made me want to talk to people, not avoid them.
-Helped me not to lose my wallet, keys, phone, etc daily.
-Calmed my extreme nail-biting and leg-shaking.

From my point of view, those were problems to me, but I never thought something was wrong. From her point of view, I was self-medicating and there was nothing wrong with that. She decided to send a referral to my primary care doctor to prescribe me Adderall. I. Was. Elated. =)

Turns out, I am not allowed to take Adderall because it was what I was caught with, even though I have a prescription. I was okay with that; I said I would try a different drug. Next was Dexedrine. Now this did absolutely nothing to me. I was very confused. It had absolutely no effect. She gave me 5mg IRs and 15mg XRs, both = nothing. I even took double my dosage for both Dex and Foc. Still no effect. After a month, I told my psych this so we decided to try Focalin XR. The only effect this has is erasing my appetite. Nothing positive. I don't understand how Adderall could work so well yet Dex and Foc do nothing at all. Does this mean I don't have ADHD? My psych is convinced I do, and I swear I haven't tried to fake it. I went in for anxiety/depression, not to con her out of medication. Are there people who don't respond to amphetamines or methylphenidate like this? Does the fact that they don't make me cracked-out mean I do have ADHD? A counselor at my university recommended I try Wellbutrin since it's an anti-anxiety and is used off-label for ADHD so I did. This definitely made a difference in waking up in the morning, but had no effect on anything else. This is when I decided to do more nootropic reading...

************

I have read thread after thread on here, and on Bluelight.ru, and on Erowid, for about two months now, and was very excited to try my first Noot - Piracetam. I was very let down. To date, I have purchased Piracetam, ALCAR, Alpha GPC, Rhodiola Rosea, Deprenyl, and Lecithin. Here is my log so far..

Day 1:
5:00pm------No reaction
---150mg Wellbutrin the night prior
---1600mg Piracetam
Before bed
---150mg Wellbutrin

Day 2:------No reaction
8:00pm
---3200mg Piracetam
---150mg Wellbutrin

Day 3:------Stopped Wellbutrin(unsure if it was causing the no reaction from Pir)
------No reaction
5:00pm
---3200mg Piracetam
12:30am
---3200mg Piracetam

Day 4:------Very irritable, sleepy, lethargic all day.
------Very emotional at night, small argument made me cry, insomnia. (From no Wellbutrin probably)
------No reaction from Pir
8:00am
---3200mg Piracetam
5:00pm
---3200mg Piracetam

Day 5:------Very irritable, apathetic about life and school, left class early when assignment was due.
------Bought ALCAR.
------Very emotional at night over little things. Sad for friend's problems. Trouble sleeping.
------Possible diarrhea from ALCAR.
3:00pm
---1600mg Piracetam
8:00pm
---500mg ALCAR

Day 6:------Awake and in good mood in AM, still apathetic about school.
------Sleepy but still in good mood in PM. Took nap (recently unusual for me, from no Wellbutrin I'm sure).
8:00am
---2400mg Piracetam
---250mg ALCAR
---Centrum
2:00pm
---800mg Piracetam
---250mg ALCAR

Day 7:------Bought Lechitin
------No reaction
11:00am
---1600mg Piracetam
---800mg Lechitin
---250mg ALCAR
---250mg Magnesium (Read it helped with energy? Now unsure if I will be continuing)
---Centrum

Day 8:------No reaction
4:00pm
---3200mg Piracetam
---1600mg Lechitin
---250mg ALCAR
---250mg Magnesium
---Centrum
2:00am
---1600mg Piracetam
---1200mg Lechitin

Day 9:------No reaction
3:00pm
---1600mg Piracetam
---1600mg Lechitin
---500mg ALCAR
---250mg Magnesium
----Centrum

Day 10:------No reaction
3:00pm
---1600mg Piracetam
---160mg Lechitin
---500mg ALCAR
---250mg Mag
---Centrum
12:00am
---1600mg Piracetam
---1600mg Lechitin
---500mg ALCAR

Day 11:------Deprenyl came.
------Very sleepy and lethargic. Slept all day long.
------No effect from Deprenyl.
9:00am
---1600mg Piracetam
---1600mg Lechitin
---250mg Magnesium
---500mg ALCAR
---Centrum
4:00pm
---5mg Deprenyl
3:00am
---1600mg Piractam
---1600mg Lechitin
---500mg ALCAR

Day 12------Bought Alpha GPC, Rhodiola Rosea
------No reaction.
11:00am
---1600mg Piracetam
---1600mg Lechitin
---500mg ALCAR
---250mg Magnesium
---5mg Deprenyl
---Centrum
6:00pm
---1600mg Piracetam
---900mg Alpha GPC
---500mg ALCAR
---240mg Rhodiola Rosea(12mg Rosavins)

Day 13------Exhausted all day.
------Same appetite-decreasing effect from Focalin XR.
12:00pm
---1600mg Piracetam
---900mg Alpha GPC
---250mg Magnesium
---240mg Rhodiola Rosea(12mg Rosavins)
3:00pm
---5mg Deprenyl
---240mg Rhodiola Rosea(12mg Rosavins)
---Centrum
---B50 Complex
5:00pm
---15mg Focalin XR (Wanted to see if it had any effect. Needed energy.)

Day 14 (Today)------Still very sleepy, apathetic, unmotivated.
3:00pm
---10mg Deprenyl
---B50 Complex
---Centrum


I know my schedule is eratic, but I expected to feel SOMETHING from these items I have tried, especially Deprenyl. If I felt anything, positive or negative, I would implement a more stable dosing schedule. Does anyone have any suggestions for me? Smaller doses for anything?

My goals in this endeavor are:
---Wake up easier. I am in the most angry and depressed mood every morning. Class, work, even lives in danger, sometimes have no effect on me. I turn off 3 alarms in my sleep. Often, I don't even get a chance to make a decision to get up or not. This is not making my future life in the labor force look very enjoyable. Thank goodness I have a roommate at the moment to yank me out of bed.
---Have motivation for school. I have so much trouble just getting started on assignments, and I don't care if I miss them. But after the fact, I am very regretful.
---Not feel like I constantly need a nap. This has a big effect on my mood and my motivation, I'm sure.
---Increase my memory and comprehending power. I used to be very intelligent, but after starting college, I feel like I have lost IQ points.

Over the past few years, I've noticed that I don't respond to medications like most do. It always takes a little more than usual to get the effects needed or they're opposite, or I don't get them at all. This has held true with ecstasy, alcohol, Advil, Tylenol, DayQuil, NyQuil, diphenhydramine, Vicodin, and others I don't recall atm..

I know that the effects of nootropics aren't going to be like the kick of Adderall (though I would love that almost-instant feeling), but I've read enough to come to the conclusion that I am not reacting like most do...

Btw, I also have Vinpocetine that I have not taken yet, just fyi..

Please help me...
Thank you so much for your time and attention. I am very grateful for all of those here who take the time to share their knowledge.

[Ark]

You'll have to obviously stop doing anything that will have a negative impact on the brain(which comes in many forms) after that it will be a mix of chemicals and time that will help restore and hopefully further you so that you can enjoy life again whether or not you happen to be high.


Basically study the impact of what you've done to yourself, from internet, then find corresponding supplements and drugs to fix the problem also prey to god for guidance.


Good Luck
ARK

[Iceebear19727]

All negatives such as drugs and alcohol have ceased...the prescriptions are the only thing left and that's at minimal doses...

Is that what you meant?

[Ark]

All negatives such as drugs and alcohol have ceased...the prescriptions are the only thing left and that's at minimal doses...

Is that what you meant?

I mean a track record of your life taking into consideration how say; a MDMA binge might have possible damaged parts of your 5-HT receptor or your GABA osculation system. Taking that example for instance, you would want to look into things like stablon, lions mane for NGF b vitamins and low dose lithium. You see the human body can be altered in different ways and its a cascade effect, in order to really fix all your problems you have to find the underlying cause and not just try and treat the symptoms. This takes time and patience and persistence, beyond anything else faith that one day you will be better then ever and everything will be right no matter what.

With some positive affirmations a little luck and some bio-alterations to your neural chemistry you'll be good as new.

Don't expect over night change, for many of the supplements and drugs to take effect and for you to become aware of the effect its having takes months and sometimes continual alterations to your regimen until you find the stack that works best, also don't forget to cycle or down-regulation will occurs and you become desensitized.



Read below

[Ark]

Wikipedia terms you don't understand, and check your local library for footnotes.

Attached Files

•  Tuning the engine of cognition.pdf   1.49MB   279 downloads
•  Kozlov 5(3)2003.pdf   184.87KB   367 downloads

[KimberCT]

Try Vyvanse ... I've heard very good things about it... especially for the anxious ADHD type.

[Iceebear19727]

So what do members here think about adrenal fatigue? I just came across that term and the symptoms feel very much like ones I have... Can someone maybe tell me more about this? I don't know much about it. Could it explain why I get no reaction from any stimulants aka caffeine, herbal energy products, ADHD meds..? Has it been confused with an ADHD diagnosis before? I've never felt like ADHD was a proper fit for me...

[kismet]

Fix your diet (use CRON-o-meter!), life style (work out, stop the non prescrip. drugs, get sleep, etc.), nail the basic non-nootropics (vit d up to 35 ng/ml, vit K; fix dietary deficiencies), get a second opinion and a third re. your condition. Unless you do that there is no reason to bitch* about your condition, esp. not adrenal fatigue which is just an invented diagnosis. Throwing random drugs at it will not help.

Not a single nootropic has been shown do to anything for IQ, w/ the exception for creatine in vegetarians. Get your life back and start cognitive training and intellectually challenging work.

Most importantly, STOP the drugs and dangerous/useless supps.

*used in the empowering, non-misogynistic way

Edited by kismet, 09 October 2010 - 02:49 PM.

[medicineman]

Fix your diet (use CRON-o-meter!), life style (work out, stop the non prescrip. drugs, get sleep, etc.), nail the basic non-nootropics (vit d up to 35 ng/ml, vit K; fix dietary deficiencies), get a second opinion and a third re. your condition. Unless you do that there is no reason to bitch* about your condition, esp. not adrenal fatigue which is just an invented diagnosis. Throwing random drugs at it will not help.

Not a single nootropic has been shown do to anything for IQ, w/ the exception for creatine in vegetarians. Get your life back and start cognitive training and intellectually challenging work.

Most importantly, STOP the drugs and dangerous/useless supps.

*used in the empowering, non-misogynistic way

i dig the reference note. goodstuff. vfunny

[medicineman]

learn a new language. use the Michel Thomas method. supplement with a basic teach yourself book of the foreign language in interest. have conversations with yourself if no practitioner of the language of interest exists, or better yet, find one. a few good months, and you will be fluent in the basics of the language in interest and feel much better cognitively.

Comprends-tu ce que je dis?

Edited by medicineman, 09 October 2010 - 03:42 PM.

[Animal]

I can relate to some of your issues, especially those involving fatigue. It's very possible your previous drug abuse has caused enough damage to impact your cognitive abilities, which may be why you feel less intelligent. Though personally I find intelligence isn't something an individual can auto-assess with any accuracy, you can feel stupid, but this is not necessarily the case.

Also you are going about the whole process of trialling these nootropics/medicaments in entirely the wrong way, in an idiotic way actually. I get the impression you're pursuing some sort of transitory 'high' that includes all your issues being rectified. You need to recognise the difference between a 'high' and a sustained change in psychodynamics. I mean what the fuck are you expecting just throwing in whatever you happen to have read about into some random stack and then messing with it on a daily basis? How the hell do you expect to identify the effects of the individual substances? The majority of nootropic/medicaments that could be indicated in resolving your problems will take at least a month of consistent moderated dosing before it's true effects become prominent, maybe more like in the case of deprenyl.

Adderall doesn't cure anything, it doesn't treat anything, it merely masks the symptoms of deeper neurocognitive problems. It gets you 'high' ADD or not, and this 'high', being massively dopaminergic; allows an increased ability to concentrate. Effects also include hugely increased hedonistic tone, the inevitable result of which is the pursuit of stimulation i.e. social interaction, sexual gratification, the words of a lecturer...whatever. Just like any drug which increases the presence of dopamine in the synaptic cleft or involves a reversal of DAT activity, it is also neurotoxic. It is not a solution to anything, not if you want to retain your cognitive skills into later life. Forget about it except for occasional use in appropriate circumstance.

Bluelight.ru is a haven for drug abusers, and any posts involving nootropics is usually aimed at attenuating the comedown/after-effects of a binge. It is not the place to look if you want information on how to cure a psychological deficit. It is a resource, but it's not the kind of information bias you need at this point.

I have largely resolved my issues, and they were many, like I said I can relate to you in part. I was diagnosed with ADD-Pi, but my concentration issues were solely to do with fatigue. This may be the case with you, the diagnostic criteria for ADD is bullshit, it precludes the cognitive issues being symptomatic and assumes it's a syndrome.

This forum has been of huge benefit in the pursuit of my personal resolution, though I came here armed with extensive knowledge to begin with so I integrated rather well. You will need to be tenacious and persistent if you want to experience results. Above all you must have patience, these things take time and much effort. Don't be afraid to ask questions though, you will benefit from interacting with the community.

I can help you a lot, so can some other knowledgeable members here, but you have to be willing to let go of the preconceptions you appear to have about psychoactives. First off, GET BACK ON THE WELLBUTRIN! It was obviously helping you and it's not something you should cold turkey like you did, hopefully you will still retain your sensitivity to it. Like many of the substances I would recommend, it's effectiveness improves over time, so just stay on it indefinitely for now. Personally for issues like yours I would not expect a complete resolution to come from supplements alone. Like a couple of other notable members here I favour the pharmaceutical approach, so if this is something you are comfortable with then reply back and we can move forward.

Or you can pray to God for a divine placebo...

[medievil]

Adderall doesn't cure anything, it doesn't treat anything, it merely masks the symptoms of deeper neurocognitive problems. It gets you 'high' ADD or not, and this 'high', being massively dopaminergic; allows an increased ability to concentrate. Effects also include hugely increased hedonistic tone, the inevitable result of which is the pursuit of stimulation i.e. social interaction, sexual gratification, the words of a lecturer...whatever. Just like any drug which increases the presence of dopamine in the synaptic cleft or involves a reversal of DAT activity, it is also neurotoxic. It is not a solution to anything, not if you want to retain your cognitive skills into later life. Forget about it except for occasional use in appropriate circumstance.

Hmm i would say that depends on the individual, also tolerance to the hedonic effects occurs rapidly so its not the "high" causing the positive effects on ADHD.

Also if dopaminergic issue's are the core of your problems then adderall does effectively treat something, rather then masking the symptons.

I also noticed with selank that it abolises ALL hedonistic effects while the prosocial and anti ADHD effects remained, those therapeutic effects dont HAVE to be connected to the euphoria, altough the euphoria itself can produce "therapeutic effects" but thats just covering up the symptons.

[Iceebear19727]

Fix your diet (use CRON-o-meter!), life style (work out, stop the non prescrip. drugs, get sleep, etc.), nail the basic non-nootropics (vit d up to 35 ng/ml, vit K; fix dietary deficiencies), get a second opinion and a third re. your condition. Unless you do that there is no reason to bitch* about your condition, esp. not adrenal fatigue which is just an invented diagnosis. Throwing random drugs at it will not help.Not a single nootropic has been shown do to anything for IQ, w/ the exception for creatine in vegetarians. Get your life back and start cognitive training and intellectually challenging work.Most importantly, STOP the drugs and dangerous/useless supps.*used in the empowering, non-misogynistic way

Kismet, I have tried CRON-o-meter, the foods I eat aren't listed usually, and I don't have access to nutrition facts for what I eat, i.e. school lunches, food from my job...

I can relate to some of your issues, especially those involving fatigue. It's very possible your previous drug abuse has caused enough damage to impact your cognitive abilities, which may be why you feel less intelligent. Though personally I find intelligence isn't something an individual can auto-assess with any accuracy, you can feel stupid, but this is not necessarily the case.

Also you are going about the whole process of trialling these nootropics/medicaments in entirely the wrong way, in an idiotic way actually. I get the impression you're pursuing some sort of transitory 'high' that includes all your issues being rectified. You need to recognise the difference between a 'high' and a sustained change in psychodynamics. I mean what the fuck are you expecting just throwing in whatever you happen to have read about into some random stack and then messing with it on a daily basis? How the hell do you expect to identify the effects of the individual substances? The majority of nootropic/medicaments that could be indicated in resolving your problems will take at least a month of consistent moderated dosing before it's true effects become prominent, maybe more like in the case of deprenyl.

Adderall doesn't cure anything, it doesn't treat anything, it merely masks the symptoms of deeper neurocognitive problems. It gets you 'high' ADD or not, and this 'high', being massively dopaminergic; allows an increased ability to concentrate. Effects also include hugely increased hedonistic tone, the inevitable result of which is the pursuit of stimulation i.e. social interaction, sexual gratification, the words of a lecturer...whatever. Just like any drug which increases the presence of dopamine in the synaptic cleft or involves a reversal of DAT activity, it is also neurotoxic. It is not a solution to anything, not if you want to retain your cognitive skills into later life. Forget about it except for occasional use in appropriate circumstance.

Bluelight.ru is a haven for drug abusers, and any posts involving nootropics is usually aimed at attenuating the comedown/after-effects of a binge. It is not the place to look if you want information on how to cure a psychological deficit. It is a resource, but it's not the kind of information bias you need at this point.

I have largely resolved my issues, and they were many, like I said I can relate to you in part. I was diagnosed with ADD-Pi, but my concentration issues were solely to do with fatigue. This may be the case with you, the diagnostic criteria for ADD is bullshit, it precludes the cognitive issues being symptomatic and assumes it's a syndrome.

This forum has been of huge benefit in the pursuit of my personal resolution, though I came here armed with extensive knowledge to begin with so I integrated rather well. You will need to be tenacious and persistent if you want to experience results. Above all you must have patience, these things take time and much effort. Don't be afraid to ask questions though, you will benefit from interacting with the community.

I can help you a lot, so can some other knowledgeable members here, but you have to be willing to let go of the preconceptions you appear to have about psychoactives. First off, GET BACK ON THE WELLBUTRIN! It was obviously helping you and it's not something you should cold turkey like you did, hopefully you will still retain your sensitivity to it. Like many of the substances I would recommend, it's effectiveness improves over time, so just stay on it indefinitely for now. Personally for issues like yours I would not expect a complete resolution to come from supplements alone. Like a couple of other notable members here I favour the pharmaceutical approach, so if this is something you are comfortable with then reply back and we can move forward.

Or you can pray to God for a divine placebo...

Animal, I agree and am very interested in following sound advice from the members here.

The difference between a "high" vs a change in psychodynamics is something I haven't been able to completely pinpoint yet. I used to believe that yes, I was getting a high from the Adderall until I went to my psych. She felt that the reaction I was getting was Adderall doing its job. It was fixing the symptoms of my ADHD-PI, not making me high. So because of this, I became unsure if what I was feeling was a high or if it was normal, what everyone else mostly feels like... I still fight with this...I am still chasing the high, I guess you could say...But if my symptoms were resolved, I firmly believe that chase would disappear, for the most part..

I think one of my biggest problems is that I have very little patience, and I also have very little faith. After a certain, relatively short, time period, if something I have been doing or taking isn't working, I move onto something else. I recognize this as an issue, but I can't seem to help it alone... That is why I need the members here. If I can have a couple people tell me the same thing, what to try, take, read about, or not take, I put all my trust in them and follow it to a T. When I realized what I was doing wasn't working and was foolish, that is when I came here for help..

I see that taking nootropics is almost pointless if I don't have my nutritional basics covered first, but I know very little about what the body needs or how vitamins and supplements interact. I can take anything but if I don't see signs that it is helping me in some way within a month or so, I usually drop it.

Where should I start?


....OH, and please tell me more about the adrenal fatigue if you can...I just can't get rid of my curiosity about it...There are symptoms from it that fit me that I'd never thought were connected such as my extreme sensitivity to cold, sleeping issues, severe menstrual cramps, low blood sugar, cravings for sugar constantly and a few others..

[medievil]

It was fixing the symptoms of my ADHD-PI, not making me high. So because of this, I became unsure if what I was feeling was a high or if it was normal, what everyone else mostly feels like...

Just keep on taking it, tolerance to the "high" develops rapidly while only the therapeutic effects remain, this is probably because the D4 receptors (highly implicated in the prefrontal cortex) dont downregulate while D2 and D3 (wich play a big role in the nucleus accumbens and other reward centers) do. In short the amp high is in no way sustainable and youll quickly be left with only the therapeutic effects.

[medicineman]

It was fixing the symptoms of my ADHD-PI, not making me high. So because of this, I became unsure if what I was feeling was a high or if it was normal, what everyone else mostly feels like...

Just keep on taking it, tolerance to the "high" develops rapidly while only the therapeutic effects remain, this is probably because the D4 receptors (highly implicated in the prefrontal cortex) dont downregulate while D2 and D3 (wich play a big role in the nucleus accumbens and other reward centers) do. In short the amp high is in no way sustainable and youll quickly be left with only the therapeutic effects.

Why would you advise someone to keep taking an amphetamine when they obviously are sick of the sympathomimetic blasts their brain has been having to cope with over long term use?

I think animals advice is sound.

[medievil]

It was fixing the symptoms of my ADHD-PI, not making me high. So because of this, I became unsure if what I was feeling was a high or if it was normal, what everyone else mostly feels like...

Just keep on taking it, tolerance to the "high" develops rapidly while only the therapeutic effects remain, this is probably because the D4 receptors (highly implicated in the prefrontal cortex) dont downregulate while D2 and D3 (wich play a big role in the nucleus accumbens and other reward centers) do. In short the amp high is in no way sustainable and youll quickly be left with only the therapeutic effects.

Why would you advise someone to keep taking an amphetamine when they obviously are sick of the sympathomimetic blasts their brain has been having to cope with over long term use?

I think animals advice is sound.

Ive just read it worked for he's ADHD, should have read the whole thread.

Either way, its unlikely that amp was just fixing he's symptons because he was high because tolerance to the hedonistic effects occurs rapidly with only leaving the therapeutic effects after chronic use, a trial of amp will confirm that.

[Animal]

It was fixing the symptoms of my ADHD-PI, not making me high. So because of this, I became unsure if what I was feeling was a high or if it was normal, what everyone else mostly feels like...

Just keep on taking it, tolerance to the "high" develops rapidly while only the therapeutic effects remain, this is probably because the D4 receptors (highly implicated in the prefrontal cortex) dont downregulate while D2 and D3 (wich play a big role in the nucleus accumbens and other reward centers) do. In short the amp high is in no way sustainable and youll quickly be left with only the therapeutic effects.

Why would you advise someone to keep taking an amphetamine when they obviously are sick of the sympathomimetic blasts their brain has been having to cope with over long term use?

I think animals advice is sound.

Ive just read it worked for he's ADHD, should have read the whole thread.

Either way, its unlikely that amp was just fixing he's symptons because he was high because tolerance to the hedonistic effects occurs rapidly with only leaving the therapeutic effects after chronic use, a trial of amp will confirm that.

I used Adderall for 3 months after my so called diagnosis of ADD-Pi and I can tell you that even though I took it every day it still put me in a mind state that I would refer to as a 'high'. At least it was a very pleasant, stimulated, energising feeling that came with the typical feeling of power that most acutely potent dopaminergics engender; thus this increase in confidence, or reduction in social anxiety. LoL, I find it funny you're saying that tolerance to the increase in hedonistic tone occurs rapidly when you regularly use it to enhance your sociability, which is one of the classic behaviours this hedonistic effect encourages. I can assure you that that everyone else who is 'normal' does not feel like they're on amphetamines 24/7, a common delusion individuals who use it regularly like to embrace. It resolved my ADD symptoms too, even though the symptoms were themselves related to chronic fatigue, but I was 'high', I'm not just referring to mood enhancement but the whole suit of effects. It's a very addictive pharmaceutical, both physically and psychologically. I had no desire to become dependent on such a transitory and personality altering substance, which is why I became determined to resolve my core issues rather then mask them in the haze of an amphetamine buzz.

It is not a long term solution to anything, there are far more healthy and sustainable ways of increasing dopaminergic activity in the pre-frontal cortex without neurotoxicity.

I like you Medieval, but when it comes to chemically induced 'highs' and amphetamines in particular, you are one of the least objective individuals on this forum. Being as dependent on them as you are...

Oh and she can't keep taking it, if you'd read her entire post you'd notice she was caught buying some illegally and is on probation for it. So of course they're not going to prescribe it when the implication is she was abusing it, whether she was self-medicating or not.

[Animal]

Animal, I agree and am very interested in following sound advice from the members here.

The difference between a "high" vs a change in psychodynamics is something I haven't been able to completely pinpoint yet. I used to believe that yes, I was getting a high from the Adderall until I went to my psych. She felt that the reaction I was getting was Adderall doing its job. It was fixing the symptoms of my ADHD-PI, not making me high. So because of this, I became unsure if what I was feeling was a high or if it was normal, what everyone else mostly feels like... I still fight with this...I am still chasing the high, I guess you could say...But if my symptoms were resolved, I firmly believe that chase would disappear, for the most part..

I think one of my biggest problems is that I have very little patience, and I also have very little faith. After a certain, relatively short, time period, if something I have been doing or taking isn't working, I move onto something else. I recognize this as an issue, but I can't seem to help it alone... That is why I need the members here. If I can have a couple people tell me the same thing, what to try, take, read about, or not take, I put all my trust in them and follow it to a T. When I realized what I was doing wasn't working and was foolish, that is when I came here for help..

I see that taking nootropics is almost pointless if I don't have my nutritional basics covered first, but I know very little about what the body needs or how vitamins and supplements interact. I can take anything but if I don't see signs that it is helping me in some way within a month or so, I usually drop it.

Where should I start?


....OH, and please tell me more about the adrenal fatigue if you can...I just can't get rid of my curiosity about it...There are symptoms from it that fit me that I'd never thought were connected such as my extreme sensitivity to cold, sleeping issues, severe menstrual cramps, low blood sugar, cravings for sugar constantly and a few others..

I'm going to focus almost exclusively on nootropic/supplement/pharmaceutical intervention rather then lifestyle choices. There are the obvious things such as having a balanced diet, regular exercise and intellectual stimulation but I'll let someone else advise you on this.

First off, adrenal fatigue is a fairly generalised differential disorder with minimal clinical evidence. But the symptoms certainly exist and they typically have a common etiology even if it is not directly related to the HPA axis. I would recommend you get a high quality adrenal glandular product, this can have a substantial effect if you truly have taxed your adrenals, which admittedly is highly possible give your previous chronic amphetamine usage.

Also modafinil is a far better alternative to amphetamine in the psychostimulant class, since it has minimal sympathomimetic effects and has a far greater affinity for the adrenergic receptors then it does for the dopaminergic receptors. Therefore it is not neurotoxic, and lacks the dependency forming effects of amphetamine. Many find it extremely effective at managing both fatigue and ADD symptoms.

[medievil]

It was fixing the symptoms of my ADHD-PI, not making me high. So because of this, I became unsure if what I was feeling was a high or if it was normal, what everyone else mostly feels like...

Just keep on taking it, tolerance to the "high" develops rapidly while only the therapeutic effects remain, this is probably because the D4 receptors (highly implicated in the prefrontal cortex) dont downregulate while D2 and D3 (wich play a big role in the nucleus accumbens and other reward centers) do. In short the amp high is in no way sustainable and youll quickly be left with only the therapeutic effects.

Why would you advise someone to keep taking an amphetamine when they obviously are sick of the sympathomimetic blasts their brain has been having to cope with over long term use?

I think animals advice is sound.

Ive just read it worked for he's ADHD, should have read the whole thread.

Either way, its unlikely that amp was just fixing he's symptons because he was high because tolerance to the hedonistic effects occurs rapidly with only leaving the therapeutic effects after chronic use, a trial of amp will confirm that.

I used Adderall for 3 months after my so called diagnosis of ADD-Pi and I can tell you that even though I took it every day it still put me in a mind state that I would refer to as a 'high'. At least it was a very pleasant, stimulated, energising feeling that came with the typical feeling of power that most acutely potent dopaminergics engender; thus this increase in confidence, or reduction in social anxiety. LoL, I find it funny you're saying that tolerance to the increase in hedonistic tone occurs rapidly when you regularly use it to enhance your sociability, which is one of the classic behaviours this hedonistic effect encourages. I can assure you that that everyone else who is 'normal' does not feel like they're on amphetamines 24/7, a common delusion individuals who use it regularly like to embrace. It resolved my ADD symptoms too, even though the symptoms were themselves related to chronic fatigue, but I was 'high', I'm not just referring to mood enhancement but the whole suit of effects. It's a very addictive pharmaceutical, both physically and psychologically. I had no desire to become dependent on such a transitory and personality altering substance, which is why I became determined to resolve my core issues rather then mask them in the haze of an amphetamine buzz.

It is not a long term solution to anything, there are far more healthy and sustainable ways of increasing dopaminergic activity in the pre-frontal cortex without neurotoxicity.

I like you Medieval, but when it comes to chemically induced 'highs' and amphetamines in particular, you are one of the least objective individuals on this forum. Being as dependent on them as you are...

Oh and she can't keep taking it, if you'd read her entire post you'd notice she was caught buying some illegally and is on probation for it. So of course they're not going to prescribe it when the implication is she was abusing it, whether she was self-medicating or not.

Without memantine after a while i get the complete opposite effects of amphetamine, increased depression, anxiety and anger and no benefits at all, i'm suprised you kept feeling the high. With memantine i can keep on using it, and remain the high.

You think your ADHD symptons come from your fatigue issues, what about people where that isnt the case? Would you also say amphetamine isnt a solution and only covers up the symptons?

Your saying its no long term solution to anything, what would you say would be a good long term solution for me then?

Thx for calling me the least objective individual .

[Iceebear19727]

But the symptoms certainly exist and they typically have a common etiology even if it is not directly related to the HPA axis.

What is the HPA axis exactly?

I would recommend you get a high quality adrenal glandular product, this can have a substantial effect if you truly have taxed your adrenals, which admittedly is highly possible give your previous chronic amphetamine usage.

What examples do you have? Modifinil? I took it before, but without a prescription.... I did like it but I only used it to stay up all night studying... How does it work compared to Adderall?

[Iceebear19727]

Oh and she can't keep taking it, if you'd read her entire post you'd notice she was caught buying some illegally and is on probation for it. So of course they're not going to prescribe it when the implication is she was abusing it, whether she was self-medicating or not.

And that's the funny part....The doc did prescribe them; it's just the state that won't let me have them... After I get off, I'll have no problem getting them; I'd just rather have something more long-term to depend on.

[Animal]

It was fixing the symptoms of my ADHD-PI, not making me high. So because of this, I became unsure if what I was feeling was a high or if it was normal, what everyone else mostly feels like...

Just keep on taking it, tolerance to the "high" develops rapidly while only the therapeutic effects remain, this is probably because the D4 receptors (highly implicated in the prefrontal cortex) dont downregulate while D2 and D3 (wich play a big role in the nucleus accumbens and other reward centers) do. In short the amp high is in no way sustainable and youll quickly be left with only the therapeutic effects.

Why would you advise someone to keep taking an amphetamine when they obviously are sick of the sympathomimetic blasts their brain has been having to cope with over long term use?

I think animals advice is sound.

Ive just read it worked for he's ADHD, should have read the whole thread.

Either way, its unlikely that amp was just fixing he's symptons because he was high because tolerance to the hedonistic effects occurs rapidly with only leaving the therapeutic effects after chronic use, a trial of amp will confirm that.

I used Adderall for 3 months after my so called diagnosis of ADD-Pi and I can tell you that even though I took it every day it still put me in a mind state that I would refer to as a 'high'. At least it was a very pleasant, stimulated, energising feeling that came with the typical feeling of power that most acutely potent dopaminergics engender; thus this increase in confidence, or reduction in social anxiety. LoL, I find it funny you're saying that tolerance to the increase in hedonistic tone occurs rapidly when you regularly use it to enhance your sociability, which is one of the classic behaviours this hedonistic effect encourages. I can assure you that that everyone else who is 'normal' does not feel like they're on amphetamines 24/7, a common delusion individuals who use it regularly like to embrace. It resolved my ADD symptoms too, even though the symptoms were themselves related to chronic fatigue, but I was 'high', I'm not just referring to mood enhancement but the whole suit of effects. It's a very addictive pharmaceutical, both physically and psychologically. I had no desire to become dependent on such a transitory and personality altering substance, which is why I became determined to resolve my core issues rather then mask them in the haze of an amphetamine buzz.

It is not a long term solution to anything, there are far more healthy and sustainable ways of increasing dopaminergic activity in the pre-frontal cortex without neurotoxicity.

I like you Medieval, but when it comes to chemically induced 'highs' and amphetamines in particular, you are one of the least objective individuals on this forum. Being as dependent on them as you are...

Oh and she can't keep taking it, if you'd read her entire post you'd notice she was caught buying some illegally and is on probation for it. So of course they're not going to prescribe it when the implication is she was abusing it, whether she was self-medicating or not.

Without memantine after a while i get the complete opposite effects of amphetamine, increased depression, anxiety and anger and no benefits at all, i'm suprised you kept feeling the high. With memantine i can keep on using it, and remain the high.

You think your ADHD symptons come from your fatigue issues, what about people where that isnt the case? Would you also say amphetamine isnt a solution and only covers up the symptons?

Your saying its no long term solution to anything, what would you say would be a good long term solution for me then?

Thx for calling me the least objective individual .

I can tell you haven't really considered any other options apart from amphetamine or other potentially euphoric psychostimulants; since the majority of your focus seems to be on making them more effective and reducing tolerance. I know why, you enjoy them, isn't it great that you can justify getting buzzed for the rest of your life and even better have a prescription for it! Phet is great for an occasional boost when you simply can't abide mental fatigue, but it certainly isn't a lifestyle choice. I bet if you ever use up your supply early you just stay indoors and waste time until you can get your fix, since going outside and interacting without a buzz on is unthinkable right? You're a smart guy, you must realise that your current chemical romance can't go on forever, it's simply too detrimental to both your psychological well-being and the health of your brain.

You're not the least objective individual in a general manner, only when it comes to psychostimulants. If I actually thought you would seriously consider alternatives I would make some suggestions, maybe even work with you to help resolve your issues. But I don't think you want to change your current habituation, you enjoy it too much. Plus actually making the effort to truly resolve your psychological deficits in a permanent manner is just too much like hard work. Why bother when you can just get tweaked.

Do you really think it's a solution or a treatment? As soon as the dose is withdrawn all your issues will return, and absolutely no progress will have been made in resolving them in a psychological manner. You know I'm a polypharmaceutical guy, but my personality is unaltered by the medication I take, and I don't 'enjoy' it, though I appreciate the effects. Everything I take aside from Modafinil is based on chronic dosing for effect and has secondary neurotrophic or neuroprotective effects. If anything they're actually nutritive for my brain, and thus sustainable indefinitely. I could never resign myself to taking something as coarse, neurotoxic and psychotropic as amphetamine for life.

[Iceebear19727]

It was fixing the symptoms of my ADHD-PI, not making me high. So because of this, I became unsure if what I was feeling was a high or if it was normal, what everyone else mostly feels like...

Just keep on taking it, tolerance to the "high" develops rapidly while only the therapeutic effects remain, this is probably because the D4 receptors (highly implicated in the prefrontal cortex) dont downregulate while D2 and D3 (wich play a big role in the nucleus accumbens and other reward centers) do. In short the amp high is in no way sustainable and youll quickly be left with only the therapeutic effects.

Why would you advise someone to keep taking an amphetamine when they obviously are sick of the sympathomimetic blasts their brain has been having to cope with over long term use?

I think animals advice is sound.

Ive just read it worked for he's ADHD, should have read the whole thread.

Either way, its unlikely that amp was just fixing he's symptons because he was high because tolerance to the hedonistic effects occurs rapidly with only leaving the therapeutic effects after chronic use, a trial of amp will confirm that.

I used Adderall for 3 months after my so called diagnosis of ADD-Pi and I can tell you that even though I took it every day it still put me in a mind state that I would refer to as a 'high'. At least it was a very pleasant, stimulated, energising feeling that came with the typical feeling of power that most acutely potent dopaminergics engender; thus this increase in confidence, or reduction in social anxiety. LoL, I find it funny you're saying that tolerance to the increase in hedonistic tone occurs rapidly when you regularly use it to enhance your sociability, which is one of the classic behaviours this hedonistic effect encourages. I can assure you that that everyone else who is 'normal' does not feel like they're on amphetamines 24/7, a common delusion individuals who use it regularly like to embrace. It resolved my ADD symptoms too, even though the symptoms were themselves related to chronic fatigue, but I was 'high', I'm not just referring to mood enhancement but the whole suit of effects. It's a very addictive pharmaceutical, both physically and psychologically. I had no desire to become dependent on such a transitory and personality altering substance, which is why I became determined to resolve my core issues rather then mask them in the haze of an amphetamine buzz.

It is not a long term solution to anything, there are far more healthy and sustainable ways of increasing dopaminergic activity in the pre-frontal cortex without neurotoxicity.

I like you Medieval, but when it comes to chemically induced 'highs' and amphetamines in particular, you are one of the least objective individuals on this forum. Being as dependent on them as you are...

Oh and she can't keep taking it, if you'd read her entire post you'd notice she was caught buying some illegally and is on probation for it. So of course they're not going to prescribe it when the implication is she was abusing it, whether she was self-medicating or not.

Without memantine after a while i get the complete opposite effects of amphetamine, increased depression, anxiety and anger and no benefits at all, i'm suprised you kept feeling the high. With memantine i can keep on using it, and remain the high.

You think your ADHD symptons come from your fatigue issues, what about people where that isnt the case? Would you also say amphetamine isnt a solution and only covers up the symptons?

Your saying its no long term solution to anything, what would you say would be a good long term solution for me then?

Thx for calling me the least objective individual .

I can tell you haven't really considered any other options apart from amphetamine or other potentially euphoric psychostimulants; since the majority of your focus seems to be on making them more effective and reducing tolerance. I know why, you enjoy them, isn't it great that you can justify getting buzzed for the rest of your life and even better have a prescription for it! Phet is great for an occasional boost when you simply can't abide mental fatigue, but it certainly isn't a lifestyle choice. I bet if you ever use up your supply early you just stay indoors and waste time until you can get your fix, since going outside and interacting without a buzz on is unthinkable right? You're a smart guy, you must realise that your current chemical romance can't go on forever, it's simply too detrimental to both your psychological well-being and the health of your brain.

You're not the least objective individual in a general manner, only when it comes to psychostimulants. If I actually thought you would seriously consider alternatives I would make some suggestions, maybe even work with you to help resolve your issues. But I don't think you want to change your current habituation, you enjoy it too much. Plus actually making the effort to truly resolve your psychological deficits in a permanent manner is just too much like hard work. Why bother when you can just get tweaked.

Do you really think it's a solution or a treatment? As soon as the dose is withdrawn all your issues will return, and absolutely no progress will have been made in resolving them in a psychological manner. You know I'm a polypharmaceutical guy, but my personality is unaltered by the medication I take, and I don't 'enjoy' it, though I appreciate the effects. Everything I take aside from Modafinil is based on chronic dosing for effect and has secondary neurotrophic or neuroprotective effects. If anything they're actually nutritive for my brain, and thus sustainable indefinitely. I could never resign myself to taking something as coarse, neurotoxic and psychotropic as amphetamine for life.

That is what I am looking for. Something that will be beneficial for my neurons, not just something that makes me feel like superwoman when I take it, though finding something that does both wouldn't be too bad..

[Animal]

Oh and she can't keep taking it, if you'd read her entire post you'd notice she was caught buying some illegally and is on probation for it. So of course they're not going to prescribe it when the implication is she was abusing it, whether she was self-medicating or not.

And that's the funny part....The doc did prescribe them; it's just the state that won't let me have them... After I get off, I'll have no problem getting them; I'd just rather have something more long-term to depend on.

How long is your probation? It's smart of you to pursue something long-term and recognise Adderall as being untenable in that respect. I won't deny that I enjoyed the stuff myself for a while, but I knew it wasn't something I could take for life.

HPA refers to the Hypothalamic–pituitary–adrenal axis, which comprises the primary systemic neuroenodocrine dynamic. Among other things it is responsible for energy storage and expenditure and regulates the general adaptation syndrome i.e. stress response. If you are feeling unduly fatigued, the HPA will be implicated in some manner.

Remember we're not looking for an Adderall replacement, but a stack regime that can give you sustained symptomatic relief indefinitely, without compromising your long term neuronal health.

As for glandulars http://www.iherb.com...-Caps/3412?at=0 <-- This is some good shit, but you may want to do some research to find the ideal product for you.

[medievil]

Its not that i only want to get buzzed dude, look i have an addictive personality and i have been taking GBL daily since 2008 on and off (only evenings and allways avoided physical addiction, i'm mentally addicted tough). its great for euphoria, but it does shit for my SA, it makes me high but my SA is still there for the 100%.

And amphetamine as far as a buzz concerned it beats AMT hands down, but whats the point? if i'm buzzing on amp i only stay inside listening to music and rambling shit to people.

So yeah as far as getting high concerned i can do it all the time, but i want my SA fixed and i want to fix all my mental issues.

Here's where AMT comes into play, its FAR more therapeutic for me then amp, as it motivates me alot more, kills my OCD and helps my social anxiety a ton. However it doesnt fix my SA for the 100% so i need to add in amp (i cant up the AMT dose as it gets psychedelic in higher doses).

I bet if you ever use up your supply early you just stay indoors and waste time until you can get your fix, since going outside and interacting without a buzz on is unthinkable right?

Wrong, i allways go out with my friends when they ask me out, however i feel extremely uncomfortable around them with SA despite i go out with them on a daily basis.

If im on a high dose of amp i dont even go out with them, as i'm enjoying listening to music to much, FUCK THAT! i want a social normal anxiety free life.

If there was anything that could resolve my issues without euphoria id take it hell yes, i want to fix my issues, not get high all the time (wich i do anyway, but whats the point? i want to fix my issues).

I would appriciate some talk with you, perhaps we can get to understand eachother better.

[Animal]

That is what I am looking for. Something that will be beneficial for my neurons, not just something that makes me feel like superwoman when I take it, though finding something that does both wouldn't be too bad..

Then you've come to the right place, since that is what the majority of individuals in the supplements/nootropic forum are in pursuit of also. I also think it is important for a substance to be based on chronic dosing for effect i.e. it takes time to build up to maximum efficacy and if anything improves over time almost indefinitely. Since this will minimise habituation and any psychological addiction to the drug. It also means you hardly know you're on it after a time since you can just enjoy the benefits with no comedown or lack of effect. There is some great stuff out there, but everyone has different biochemistry, so we just need to find out what's right for you. Me sleep now though...

[Iceebear19727]

Oh and she can't keep taking it, if you'd read her entire post you'd notice she was caught buying some illegally and is on probation for it. So of course they're not going to prescribe it when the implication is she was abusing it, whether she was self-medicating or not.

And that's the funny part....The doc did prescribe them; it's just the state that won't let me have them... After I get off, I'll have no problem getting them; I'd just rather have something more long-term to depend on.

How long is your probation? It's smart of you to pursue something long-term and recognise Adderall as being untenable in that respect. I won't deny that I enjoyed the stuff myself for a while, but I knew it wasn't something I could take for life.

HPA refers to the Hypothalamic–pituitary–adrenal axis, which comprises the primary systemic neuroenodocrine dynamic. Among other things it is responsible for energy storage and expenditure and regulates the general adaptation syndrome i.e. stress response. If you are feeling unduly fatigued, the HPA will be implicated in some manner.

Remember we're not looking for an Adderall replacement, but a stack regime that can give you sustained symptomatic relief indefinitely, without compromising your long term neuronal health.

As for glandulars http://www.iherb.com...-Caps/3412?at=0 <-- This is some good shit, but you may want to do some research to find the ideal product for you.

Two years, I am halfway through in two days..

So glandulars are actual adrenal glands from cows? So does taking them help to replace the damaged parts? It seems almost too easy. Take something to replace the broken parts....Are there pills with Bovine brain tissue to replace the damaged parts in my brain?...MOOOOOOO

[Iceebear19727]

That is what I am looking for. Something that will be beneficial for my neurons, not just something that makes me feel like superwoman when I take it, though finding something that does both wouldn't be too bad..

Then you've come to the right place, since that is what the majority of individuals in the supplements/nootropic forum are in pursuit of also. I also think it is important for a substance to be based on chronic dosing for effect i.e. it takes time to build up to maximum efficacy and if anything improves over time almost indefinitely. Since this will minimise habituation and any psychological addiction to the drug. It also means you hardly know you're on it after a time since you can just enjoy the benefits with no comedown or lack of effect. There is some great stuff out there, but everyone has different biochemistry, so we just need to find out what's right for you. Me sleep now though...

Goodnight....mooo......

[Animal]

I would appriciate some talk with you, perhaps we can get to understand eachother better.

Yeah I think that would be a good thing, I am running on a lot of presumption here. You seem to have the right intentions; I will admit that at one point I was a lot more like you with regards to psychoactive substances. But I just wasn't satisfied with my state of being, I'm in a much better place now and feel far more healthy both mentally and physically for it. I sometimes miss the high, but that is very rare for me now, since the last time I was 'up' was new years eve 2009.

[e Volution]

Get a multi-vitamin!!! Seriously the number one thing you should be doing is fixing up your diet, but learning what makes good nutrition can be a long slog so a multi can get your bases covered in the mean time. Just think-numerous vitamins or minerals crucial to optimal functioning & health of the brain might be missing from your diet. You could have been deficient in one or some of them for years, possibly even your entire life. Get this fixed ASAP.

Everything I take aside from Modafinil is based on chronic dosing for effect and has secondary neurotrophic or neuroprotective effects. If anything they're actually nutritive for my brain, and thus sustainable indefinitely. I could never resign myself to taking something as coarse, neurotoxic and psychotropic as amphetamine for life.

Is there somewhere we can see everything you take (your regimen)?