56 replies to this topic

[Iceebear19727]

Get a multi-vitamin!!! Seriously the number one thing you should be doing is fixing up your diet, but learning what makes good nutrition can be a long slog so a multi can get your bases covered in the mean time. Just think-numerous vitamins or minerals crucial to optimal functioning & health of the brain might be missing from your diet. You could have been deficient in one or some of them for years, possibly even your entire life. Get this fixed ASAP.

Everything I take aside from Modafinil is based on chronic dosing for effect and has secondary neurotrophic or neuroprotective effects. If anything they're actually nutritive for my brain, and thus sustainable indefinitely. I could never resign myself to taking something as coarse, neurotoxic and psychotropic as amphetamine for life.

Is there somewhere we can see everything you take (your regimen)?

I am down for that but at least in the stores I've looked in, the regular centrum, one-a-day, etc vitamins just don't seem to have everything needed or enough of what is already in them.. I want an actual COMPLETE multivitamin..

[medievil]

I would appriciate some talk with you, perhaps we can get to understand eachother better.

Yeah I think that would be a good thing, I am running on a lot of presumption here. You seem to have the right intentions; I will admit that at one point I was a lot more like you with regards to psychoactive substances. But I just wasn't satisfied with my state of being, I'm in a much better place now and feel far more healthy both mentally and physically for it. I sometimes miss the high, but that is very rare for me now, since the last time I was 'up' was new years eve 2009.

Yeah i'm getting high all the time but i'm not satisfied with this life.

Having a social life, going out with friends all the time, having a girlfriend and all other shit is far superior to being buzzed all the time.

I have a couple reasons to beleive why i think only amphetamine and AMT can fix my social anxiety, but i want to discuss it with you, should i make a thread about my regime or PM my reasening to you?

[Iceebear19727]

I would appriciate some talk with you, perhaps we can get to understand eachother better.

Yeah I think that would be a good thing, I am running on a lot of presumption here. You seem to have the right intentions; I will admit that at one point I was a lot more like you with regards to psychoactive substances. But I just wasn't satisfied with my state of being, I'm in a much better place now and feel far more healthy both mentally and physically for it. I sometimes miss the high, but that is very rare for me now, since the last time I was 'up' was new years eve 2009.

Yeah i'm getting high all the time but i'm not satisfied with this life.

Having a social life, going out with friends all the time, having a girlfriend and all other shit is far superior to being buzzed all the time.

I have a couple reasons to beleive why i think only amphetamine and AMT can fix my social anxiety, but i want to discuss it with you, should i make a thread about my regime or PM my reasening to you?

What is AMT?

[medievil]

I would appriciate some talk with you, perhaps we can get to understand eachother better.

Yeah I think that would be a good thing, I am running on a lot of presumption here. You seem to have the right intentions; I will admit that at one point I was a lot more like you with regards to psychoactive substances. But I just wasn't satisfied with my state of being, I'm in a much better place now and feel far more healthy both mentally and physically for it. I sometimes miss the high, but that is very rare for me now, since the last time I was 'up' was new years eve 2009.

Yeah i'm getting high all the time but i'm not satisfied with this life.

Having a social life, going out with friends all the time, having a girlfriend and all other shit is far superior to being buzzed all the time.

I have a couple reasons to beleive why i think only amphetamine and AMT can fix my social anxiety, but i want to discuss it with you, should i make a thread about my regime or PM my reasening to you?

What is AMT?

AMT is alpha methyl tryptamine, a serotonine dopamine releasing agent wich was used as an antidepressant for 20 years in the sovjet union, its pretty much the most effective antidepressant/anxiolytic out of history.

[Iceebear19727]

I would appriciate some talk with you, perhaps we can get to understand eachother better.

Yeah I think that would be a good thing, I am running on a lot of presumption here. You seem to have the right intentions; I will admit that at one point I was a lot more like you with regards to psychoactive substances. But I just wasn't satisfied with my state of being, I'm in a much better place now and feel far more healthy both mentally and physically for it. I sometimes miss the high, but that is very rare for me now, since the last time I was 'up' was new years eve 2009.

Yeah i'm getting high all the time but i'm not satisfied with this life.

Having a social life, going out with friends all the time, having a girlfriend and all other shit is far superior to being buzzed all the time.

I have a couple reasons to beleive why i think only amphetamine and AMT can fix my social anxiety, but i want to discuss it with you, should i make a thread about my regime or PM my reasening to you?

What is AMT?

AMT is alpha methyl tryptamine, a serotonine dopamine releasing agent wich was used as an antidepressant for 20 years in the sovjet union, its pretty much the most effective antidepressant/anxiolytic out of history.

A schedule 1 substance? Or do you live in the UK?

[medievil]

I would appriciate some talk with you, perhaps we can get to understand eachother better.

Yeah I think that would be a good thing, I am running on a lot of presumption here. You seem to have the right intentions; I will admit that at one point I was a lot more like you with regards to psychoactive substances. But I just wasn't satisfied with my state of being, I'm in a much better place now and feel far more healthy both mentally and physically for it. I sometimes miss the high, but that is very rare for me now, since the last time I was 'up' was new years eve 2009.

Yeah i'm getting high all the time but i'm not satisfied with this life.

Having a social life, going out with friends all the time, having a girlfriend and all other shit is far superior to being buzzed all the time.

I have a couple reasons to beleive why i think only amphetamine and AMT can fix my social anxiety, but i want to discuss it with you, should i make a thread about my regime or PM my reasening to you?

What is AMT?

AMT is alpha methyl tryptamine, a serotonine dopamine releasing agent wich was used as an antidepressant for 20 years in the sovjet union, its pretty much the most effective antidepressant/anxiolytic out of history.

A schedule 1 substance? Or do you live in the UK?

I'm from belguim where its still legal, not that i would care tough, i dont think anyone can be allowed to decide what substances i cant use

In the US its illegal.

[Iceebear19727]

I would appriciate some talk with you, perhaps we can get to understand eachother better.

Yeah I think that would be a good thing, I am running on a lot of presumption here. You seem to have the right intentions; I will admit that at one point I was a lot more like you with regards to psychoactive substances. But I just wasn't satisfied with my state of being, I'm in a much better place now and feel far more healthy both mentally and physically for it. I sometimes miss the high, but that is very rare for me now, since the last time I was 'up' was new years eve 2009.

Yeah i'm getting high all the time but i'm not satisfied with this life.

Having a social life, going out with friends all the time, having a girlfriend and all other shit is far superior to being buzzed all the time.

I have a couple reasons to beleive why i think only amphetamine and AMT can fix my social anxiety, but i want to discuss it with you, should i make a thread about my regime or PM my reasening to you?

What is AMT?

AMT is alpha methyl tryptamine, a serotonine dopamine releasing agent wich was used as an antidepressant for 20 years in the sovjet union, its pretty much the most effective antidepressant/anxiolytic out of history.

A schedule 1 substance? Or do you live in the UK?

I'm from belguim where its still legal, not that i would care tough, i dont think anyone can be allowed to decide what substances i cant use

In the US its illegal.

Hah. I agree. It sucks.

If all substances were legal, it would be survival of the fittest, just like nature intended...
But I'd never leave my drink unattended. EVER.

[e Volution]

I am down for that but at least in the stores I've looked in, the regular centrum, one-a-day, etc vitamins just don't seem to have everything needed or enough of what is already in them.. I want an actual COMPLETE multivitamin..

Good ones are AOR Ortho-Core, AOR Multi-Basics, Life Extension Multi, and soon-to-be-released (if ever) ImmInst Multi...

[medievil]

Hah. I agree. It sucks.

If all substances were legal, it would be survival of the fittest, just like nature intended...
But I'd never leave my drink unattended. EVER.

I wish i could get AMT back into clinical use, it has a tremendous therapeutic potential, check out an older post i wrote about it:

Anyway guys, i beleive in serotonine releasers as the future antidepressants, 2 study's by nichols et al showed that they are superior to sertraline (1) and have a more rapid effect then standard antidepresants (2). SSRI's work by elevating serotonine however the serotonine autoreceptors lower serotonine again untill they downregulate and serotonine is elevated high enough for the patient to notice a antidepressant effect, however many patients are treatment resistant, activity of the 5HT1A autoreceptors has been associated with that atleast according to a study in mice (3).
Serotonine releasers effectively bypass the autoreceptors by forcing serotonine release resulting in a more robust response.

Some selective serotonine releasers are available as research chemicals however they dont have any research behind them in humans and could carry risk, an exception of this is AMT or alpha methyl tryptamine, it has been in clinical use for 20 years in the sovjet union, besides serotonine release its also a dopamine releaser wich further potentiates the antidepressant effects.

It is true that combined serotonine and dopamine release leads to neurotoxiticy, as seen with MDMA, however with MDMA there are 3 major factors contributing, first oxidative stress caused by massive monoamine release, AMT in low daily doses doesnt cause a massive elevation and oxidative stress will be minimal, hyperthermia if hyperthermia is abolished MDMA's neurotoxiticy is gone too, AMT in low doses doesnt cause any hyperthermia and last the toxic metabolites, wheter AMT has those is unclear (or i'm just not aware of that).

In conclusion i beleive that switching to a SSRI would decrease all benefits ive got up till now, and i beleive that the best strategy would be augmenting AMT.
AMT also lacks the impotence and other side effects seen with SSRI's, and it by itself fixes me up a great deal, so its definatly going to be a keeper.


1. The Effect of Selective Serotonin Releasing Agents in the Chronic Mild Stress Model of Depression in Rats.". Stress. PMID 9787258.
2. Effects of 5-HT-releasing agents on the extracellullar hippocampal 5-HT of rats. Implications for the development of novel antidepressants with a short onset of action. Unfortunately as a research chemical it's legality is subject to change. PMID 10428424.
3. RGS inhibition at Gαi2 selectively potentiates 5-HT1A–mediated antidepressant effects PNAS 107/24/11086

The dopamine release also fixes up my ADHD and anhedonia.

But oh well, they even made amineptine illegal for some slight abuse potential, damn abuse potential phobia lets wait for the groundbreaking SNDRI's haha, while weve had a releasing agent 50 years ago.

Edited by medievil, 11 October 2010 - 12:31 AM.

[Iceebear19727]

Hah. I agree. It sucks.

If all substances were legal, it would be survival of the fittest, just like nature intended...
But I'd never leave my drink unattended. EVER.

I wish i could get AMT back into clinical use, it has a tremendous therapeutic potential, check out an older post i wrote about it:

Anyway guys, i beleive in serotonine releasers as the future antidepressants, 2 study's by nichols et al showed that they are superior to sertraline (1) and have a more rapid effect then standard antidepresants (2). SSRI's work by elevating serotonine however the serotonine autoreceptors lower serotonine again untill they downregulate and serotonine is elevated high enough for the patient to notice a antidepressant effect, however many patients are treatment resistant, activity of the 5HT1A autoreceptors has been associated with that atleast according to a study in mice (3).
Serotonine releasers effectively bypass the autoreceptors by forcing serotonine release resulting in a more robust response.

Some selective serotonine releasers are available as research chemicals however they dont have any research behind them in humans and could carry risk, an exception of this is AMT or alpha methyl tryptamine, it has been in clinical use for 20 years in the sovjet union, besides serotonine release its also a dopamine releaser wich further potentiates the antidepressant effects.

It is true that combined serotonine and dopamine release leads to neurotoxiticy, as seen with MDMA, however with MDMA there are 3 major factors contributing, first oxidative stress caused by massive monoamine release, AMT in low daily doses doesnt cause a massive elevation and oxidative stress will be minimal, hyperthermia if hyperthermia is abolished MDMA's neurotoxiticy is gone too, AMT in low doses doesnt cause any hyperthermia and last the toxic metabolites, wheter AMT has those is unclear (or i'm just not aware of that).

In conclusion i beleive that switching to a SSRI would decrease all benefits ive got up till now, and i beleive that the best strategy would be augmenting AMT.
AMT also lacks the impotence and other side effects seen with SSRI's, and it by itself fixes me up a great deal, so its definatly going to be a keeper.


1. The Effect of Selective Serotonin Releasing Agents in the Chronic Mild Stress Model of Depression in Rats.". Stress. PMID 9787258.
2. Effects of 5-HT-releasing agents on the extracellullar hippocampal 5-HT of rats. Implications for the development of novel antidepressants with a short onset of action. Unfortunately as a research chemical it's legality is subject to change. PMID 10428424.
3. RGS inhibition at Gαi2 selectively potentiates 5-HT1A–mediated antidepressant effects PNAS 107/24/11086

The dopamine release also fixes up my ADHD and anhedonia.

But oh well, they even made amineptine illegal for some slight abuse potential, damn abuse potential phobia lets wait for the groundbreaking SNDRI's haha, while weve had a releasing agent 50 years ago.

Nice, so it releases both serotonin and dopamine? Lucky...
I have to stick with the legal stuff...boo....
So what's your take on my situation?

[FrequencyX]

I agree with kismet and Evolution on this one. Get your lifestyle in order first before throwing supplements and drugs into the mix.
1. Change your diet first and foremost - Cut down on the microwave garbage and try to include some whole grains, vegetables and fruit
2. Start exercising - Even if it is 30 minutes a day or even every couple of days. As long as there is some physical activity (Drink lots of water)
3. Add good multivitamin (Ortho, Now Foods ADAM, Natures Way Alive etc..)
4. See a DR - If medication is needed, let them prescribe what is best for your condition. No need to get busted again trying to sneak around

[Iceebear19727]

Well I've started back on the Wellbutrin and am taking an Alive multi and 1000mg Fish oil x3 a day...

It's a start...

[medievil]

Nice, so it releases both serotonin and dopamine? Lucky...
I have to stick with the legal stuff...boo....
So what's your take on my situation?

I have my ADHD meds back tomorrow, then i'l give you some advice, i'm completely unable to read your text without my meds (yeah i know i'm pathetic )

[Iceebear19727]

Well I've started back on the Wellbutrin and am taking an Alive multi and 1000mg Fish oil x3 a day...

It's a start...

It's amazing how fast the Wellbutrin works. There's a huge improvement in my energy during the day. Sad thing is..I'm pretty sure it was responsible for my drop in libido last time...meh =/

[Ark]

So what do members here think about adrenal fatigue? I just came across that term and the symptoms feel very much like ones I have... Can someone maybe tell me more about this? I don't know much about it. Could it explain why I get no reaction from any stimulants aka caffeine, herbal energy products, ADHD meds..? Has it been confused with an ADHD diagnosis before? I've never felt like ADHD was a proper fit for me...

Look into Licorice root for adernal fatigue and make sure to lay off any type of stimulant that acts on the CNS/Noradrenaline. That and like everyone said, plenty of exercise with quality sleep cycles and good diet this may correct part of your problem also look into chronic fatigue syndrome. It will give you a host of ideas of possibility that could be inhibiting you from being at full health.(examples: Lyme, anemia,& MS)

http://www.pandoranet.info/

Edited by Ark, 13 October 2010 - 06:33 AM.

[Iceebear19727]

What dosage of Licorice Root would I start out with? How long would I take it?

[Ark]

What dosage of Licorice Root would I start out with? How long would I take it?

6-8months
4.8 grams a day

[outsider]

Ultimately you won't feel nothing from nootropics but you could develop subtle new abilities.

[Insomniac]

What dosage of Licorice Root would I start out with? How long would I take it?

6-8months
4.8 grams a day

Isn't 4.8 grams/day a little bit too much of licorice root, I saw somewhere else that taking a 450mg capsule a day is beneficial and enough and effects show up in 4-6 months..

[oblomov]

....OH, and please tell me more about the adrenal fatigue if you can...I just can't get rid of my curiosity about it...There are symptoms from it that fit me that I'd never thought were connected such as my extreme sensitivity to cold, sleeping issues, severe menstrual cramps, low blood sugar, cravings for sugar constantly and a few others..

These symptoms could have many causes that are the result of an accepted diagnosis, rather than a vague supplement marketing term ("adrenal fatigue").

For example:
-disturbed sleep and cold sensitivity could be the result of hypothyroidism
-cravings for sugar and low blood sugar could be the result of type II diabetes, or a pre-diabetic condition
-the severe menstrual cramps could be the result of nutritional deficiencies, one of the above conditions (hypothyroidism, diabetes), or they could be
simply part of who you are (i.e., it might not be a "disease")

You should see a competent, board-certified physician who can perform and interpret a full blood chemistry panel on you. Be sure to take him/her a written version of a typical day's meals, as well as a full list of supplements and medications you are taking.

Supplements should be used tentatively and sparingly. I take quite a few supplements, and I can perceive an effect from them. But none of the supplements I take regularly produce a high or make my problems seem to go away. The improvements are subtle and aren't even noticeable on some days.

The effect of diet and exercise is much more noticeable on a daily basis, to me at least.

[Molecules=Love]

Well I've started back on the Wellbutrin and am taking an Alive multi and 1000mg Fish oil x3 a day...

It's a start...

It's amazing how fast the Wellbutrin works. There's a huge improvement in my energy during the day. Sad thing is..I'm pretty sure it was responsible for my drop in libido last time...meh =/

I wanted to chime in and give some of my experiences. 19 y/o female, I've been diagnosed with ADHD at like 6 and taken stimulants (ritalin or adderall) and later on a few years of non stimulant ADHD meds (strattera). Currently I'm taking a combo of ritalin and Wellbutrin. I find that the Wellbutrin is great for reducing what I can only relate as a "hunger" that seems to be cured by things like stimulants (ritalin, adderall etc.) and nicotine, although it can be somewhat quenched by any 'recreational' substance so in that respect that could be somewhat relatable? Although I still take ritalin for concentration the Wellbutrin seems to drive away this "hunger" I get, and it seems to have an extended effect so I don't get this hunger feeling during evenings. Plus being on ritalin too much is just terrible for tolerance. I'm curious what dosage of that you are taking, currently I'm taking 300mg every morning of the SR version. The rhodiola rosea seems nice to me and I've been taking that for about a week but the effects are more subtle. I am also taking huperzine A which has been pretty awesome for me regarding making my mind feel much sharper.

Edited by Molecules=Love, 24 March 2011 - 03:39 AM.

[Iceebear19727]

I'm on 150mg at night. It's been great for my energy but done nothing for my focus,concentration, and clarity. You take Huperzine A? Hm. Anything else?

[Molecules=Love]

I'm on 150mg at night. It's been great for my energy but done nothing for my focus,concentration, and clarity. You take Huperzine A? Hm. Anything else?

I'm taking 1500mg a day in 3 doses of rhodiola rosea, 200 mcg of huperzine a day and choline bitartrate (1500mg in 3 doses) but in the next week I will be getting in a bunch other nootropics so I'm looking forward to seeing how that works. Rhodiola rosea is subtle but I think it makes me have slightly more energy, a more positive mood and feel healthier, the huperzine just seems to make me sharper and have better memory.

[aaron43]

Was just browsing thru these forums and saw this. Then I experienced something interesting. Yesterday I took adderall to study for this test that was today, I stayed up till 3 at night and woke up at 6 in the morning to study more for the test that was at 8 in the morning. So the day goes on yada yada yada failed the test cuz i barely studied. I get home at 4 finally get to eat again, I just smoke watched the laker, and sat browsing these forums just curious about stuff. To say the least I was tired as hell. This morning I was awake because I took another adderall, so that was 2 adderalls in 2 days and I normally don't take adderall. I take piracetam plus a plethra of other nootropics but I was still tired, and i didnt doubt it because I only got 3 hours of sleep and been up all day. So while veggin and smokin I was browsing the forum and came across the "flashlight test" for piracetam users. I did it, and my pupils didnt move jack, literally not at all. Weird. Then it said later in the thread that this is due to the supposed adrenal insufficiency. Someone recommended supplementing with L-tyrosine to recover for this insufficiency. I happen to take it daily, and was wonderin what was goin that my pupils didn't move. I looked up the half life for l-tyrosine and saw that it was pretty short, so I thought what if my use of adderall the past two days just bashed and pooped on my dopamine levels at this time now that I am so tired and just basically elequently described as sitting. I have used adderall a lot sporadically for a while but was never perscribed. I started thinking that my initial dose of l-tyrosine's effects might have been way over. I decided to take the l-tyrosine again, about 1.3g's. I did the "flashlight test" immediately after, still no movement. After about 5 minutes I started feeling awake again. I did the flashlight test again, I saw that my pupils constricted but almost instantaneously fluttered back to the original state of no movement. I go back smoke more, watchin the laker game, my girl is about to come over and its been about 10 minutes since my initial dose. I repeat the test and I see them restrict again, but now they are staying a little longer but then fluttering back. I started checking every (what I felt like) was five minutes and noticed that my pupils consistenly constricted longer and longer everytime I check but still fluttered back until now. I feel like they look like how the average person's pupils dialate aka doing the exact opposite of not dialating. Not only that but I feel way better again, and am in a noticeably better mood, and I would definetly categorize it as brain fog clearing way to crystal blue skies. In fact I felt good enough to write this and keep my girl waiting and not keep my eyes on the laker game and not be smoking...thats saying a damn lot if you know me. I feel like this is very direct yet indirect proof that l-tyrosine can be used to clear up brain fog for piracetam users that report "brain fog". Try it out, I always noticed that I would be more energized with less brain fog when I took l-tyrosine, and I feel like since my system has been so out of wack due to lack of sleep, adderal, studying, and just being tired that I may have set myself up to be more aware of the effects of l-tyrosine, and now more aware of the acute effects that l-tyrosine has in clearing up brain fog when the average person is experiencing brain fog. Haha I was just excited, thought I had to post this cuz i remember reading it earlier today so ya smoke weed

[aaron43]

Was just browsing thru these forums and saw this. Then I experienced something interesting. Yesterday I took adderall to study for this test that was today, I stayed up till 3 at night and woke up at 6 in the morning to study more for the test that was at 8 in the morning. So the day goes on yada yada yada failed the test cuz i barely studied. I get home at 4 finally get to eat again, I just smoke watched the laker, and sat browsing these forums just curious about stuff. To say the least I was tired as hell. This morning I was awake because I took another adderall, so that was 2 adderalls in 2 days and I normally don't take adderall. I take piracetam plus a plethra of other nootropics but I was still tired, and i didnt doubt it because I only got 3 hours of sleep and been up all day. So while veggin and smokin I was browsing the forum and came across the "flashlight test" for piracetam users. I did it, and my pupils didnt move jack, literally not at all. Weird. Then it said later in the thread that this is due to the supposed adrenal insufficiency. Someone recommended supplementing with L-tyrosine to recover for this insufficiency. I happen to take it daily, and was wonderin what was goin that my pupils didn't move. I looked up the half life for l-tyrosine and saw that it was pretty short, so I thought what if my use of adderall the past two days just bashed and pooped on my dopamine levels at this time now that I am so tired and just basically elequently described as sitting. I have used adderall a lot sporadically for a while but was never perscribed. I started thinking that my initial dose of l-tyrosine's effects might have been way over. I decided to take the l-tyrosine again, about 1.3g's. I did the "flashlight test" immediately after, still no movement. After about 5 minutes I started feeling awake again. I did the flashlight test again, I saw that my pupils constricted but almost instantaneously fluttered back to the original state of no movement. I go back smoke more, watchin the laker game, my girl is about to come over and its been about 10 minutes since my initial dose. I repeat the test and I see them restrict again, but now they are staying a little longer but then fluttering back. I started checking every (what I felt like) was five minutes and noticed that my pupils consistenly constricted longer and longer everytime I check but still fluttered back until now. I feel like they look like how the average person's pupils dialate aka doing the exact opposite of not dialating. Not only that but I feel way better again, and am in a noticeably better mood, and I would definetly categorize it as brain fog clearing way to crystal blue skies. In fact I felt good enough to write this and keep my girl waiting and not keep my eyes on the laker game and not be smoking...thats saying a damn lot if you know me. I feel like this is very direct yet indirect proof that l-tyrosine can be used to clear up brain fog for piracetam users that report "brain fog". Try it out, I always noticed that I would be more energized with less brain fog when I took l-tyrosine, and I feel like since my system has been so out of wack due to lack of sleep, adderal, studying, and just being tired that I may have set myself up to be more aware of the effects of l-tyrosine, and now more aware of the acute effects that l-tyrosine has in clearing up brain fog when the average person is experiencing brain fog. Haha I was just excited, thought I had to post this cuz i remember reading it earlier today so ya smoke weed

Im replying to the very first post of the forum.

[Iceebear19727]

As for glandulars http://www.iherb.com...-Caps/3412?at=0 <-- This is some good shit, but you may want to do some research to find the ideal product for you.

So you take this? How many do you take a day?

Edited by Iceebear19727, 16 August 2011 - 10:45 PM.

[nowayout]

Typical college microwave diet, high carbs, fats, sugars...=/
Occasionally active

There's your problem in a nutshell. Don't expect much improvement until you fix this.