55 replies to this topic

[leha]

e, I don't want to get into fruitless arguments, either. I was just responding to a request for proof that alcohol does more harm than good. If y'all want to drink a little booze, I have no problem with that. In fact, I plan on drinking a little wine myself tonight. That said, I don't think it's the key to longevity. It's got too little phytochemicals and too little resveratrol to duplicate any of the results they've achieved in studies of those substances, and unless someone can show me a review that points to significant evidence that it's doing good on some other count, as far as I know, it isn't. One of the problems with alcohol is that it intoxicates people. Some people think this will make them happy, but alcohol consumption has never been shown to make people happy. It dulls the senses. In fact, I'll bet it runs directly counter to the benefits (sense of purpose) that a person might gain from meditating. It's definitely listed in plenty of studies as a depressant, and as a depressant, yes, I am concerned about the specific people who read this forum being told that alcohol will benefit them. I don't know about you, but I have noticed an inordinate number of people in these forums who are either depressed, on antidepressants, or both. These people should not be messing with alcohol. As such, the discussion of alcohol (which I agree does not belong in this particular topic at all--sorry, OP) definitely has a place in these forums somewhere.

That said, I am not going to be the champion of tea-totaling. That would be pretty hypocritical! But I do think that love (as I broadly define it, which I might add has nothing to do with the adolescent view that love is something you "fall in," or get your shoe stuck in) is going to bring people a whole lot more longevity than booze ever will--and it is FREE, which is what this topic is about, right? Love and gardening, if practiced correctly, result in a net positive gain for the practitioner.

[EmbraceUnity]

Ha, well considering the social costs of booze (drunk driving, violence, etc) perhaps advocating sobriety would improve your life expectancy and doing so is indeed free, but the self-interested benefits from that are likely minimal unless you can convince people you interact with frequently. Though I think the idea of love itself subsumes that. If you cultivate healthy and honest interpersonal relationships, then you will probably have less problems in general, alcohol-related or otherwise.

Gardening is probably like a form of meditation for some. Though for people who don't like that, soaking in nature on a nice walk should do the trick.

Edited by EmbraceUnity, 04 November 2010 - 11:46 PM.

[chris w]

Good list. I would add a small thing in line with the germophobic theme :

- Keep your computer desk religiously dust free, also the space close to your head where you sleep.

- And if you live in an appartment building and not insanely high, don't use the elevator ( altough that kind of fits into "exercise" I guess )

I had horses, llamas, and dogs throughout my generally happy childhood

Slightly off - top but...sounds like interesting child days Rol. I'm curious about those llamas.


Leha said :

alcohol consumption has never been shown to make people happy. It dulls the senses

I don't really see a contradiction here. Moreover, I see hint of a positive connection.

Edited by chris w, 05 November 2010 - 12:13 AM.

[Rational Madman]

e, I don't want to get into fruitless arguments, either. I was just responding to a request for proof that alcohol does more harm than good. If y'all want to drink a little booze, I have no problem with that. In fact, I plan on drinking a little wine myself tonight. That said, I don't think it's the key to longevity. It's got too little phytochemicals and too little resveratrol to duplicate any of the results they've achieved in studies of those substances, and unless someone can show me a review that points to significant evidence that it's doing good on some other count, as far as I know, it isn't. One of the problems with alcohol is that it intoxicates people. Some people think this will make them happy, but alcohol consumption has never been shown to make people happy. It dulls the senses. In fact, I'll bet it runs directly counter to the benefits (sense of purpose) that a person might gain from meditating. It's definitely listed in plenty of studies as a depressant, and as a depressant, yes, I am concerned about the specific people who read this forum being told that alcohol will benefit them. I don't know about you, but I have noticed an inordinate number of people in these forums who are either depressed, on antidepressants, or both. These people should not be messing with alcohol. As such, the discussion of alcohol (which I agree does not belong in this particular topic at all--sorry, OP) definitely has a place in these forums somewhere.

That said, I am not going to be the champion of tea-totaling. That would be pretty hypocritical! But I do think that love (as I broadly define it, which I might add has nothing to do with the adolescent view that love is something you "fall in," or get your shoe stuck in) is going to bring people a whole lot more longevity than booze ever will--and it is FREE, which is what this topic is about, right? Love and gardening, if practiced correctly, result in a net positive gain for the practitioner.

Again quantity matters, and although there doesn't seem to be a consensus on the operational definition for low to moderate intake---which has the most empirical support for improving health outcomes---the definition usually ranges from 1-3 alcoholic beverages daily. If I was asked to rank the health promoting properties of alcoholic beverages, from the top of my head, I would offer the following in the imperfect order: 1. New York Red 2. Hungarian Red 3. Malbec 4.Tannat 5. Spanish Red 6. Italian Red 6. Port Wine 7. Californian Red 8. Rhone Red 9. Languedoc-Rousillon 10. Bordeaux 11. Australian 12. Chilean 13. Champagne 14. Sauvignon Blanc 15. Pinot Grigio 16. Chardonnay 17. Aged Single Malt Whiskey 18. Irish Whiskey 19. Armagnac 20. Cognac 21. Armenian Brandy 22. American Brandy 23. Blended Whiskey 24. Beer 25. American Whiskey. These strike me as the only beverages that the health conscious should consider drinking, and I imagine the alternatives are largely deleterious. And keep in mind, I've seen some evidence supporting the health promoting properties of each of the aforementioned, but any criticism or amendments would be welcome. Speaking for myself, I only drink Bordeaux, Burgundy, Port, Champagne, Cognac, Armagnac, Armenian Brandy, Rhone, Irish Whiskey, and Single Malt Whiskey of at least 10 years age (particularly Islay and Speyside regions). I'm very discriminating in my brand choices, but to each his/her own.

And as for love, I would prefer the calm river trip of stable companionship over the roller coaster of love.

As for cost free endeavors, I would again strongly endorse a diverse life. Your brain loves the stimulation, and if one leads a sedentary life of limited stimulation, neurogenesis is greatly reduced. So be social, go outdoors, and engage in a wide variety of mental exercises.

Edited by Rol82, 06 November 2010 - 02:27 AM.

[niner]

Good list. I would add a small thing in line with the germophobic theme :

- Keep your computer desk religiously dust free, also the space close to your head where you sleep.

I agree, but not for germophobe reasons. I'm thinking of allergens here. Dust mites are perhaps the number one allergen of the developed world, and exposure over time will sensitize you. This is decidedly not something you want, and the avoidance concept extends to all of the common environmental allergens: Pollens, molds, animal danders, cockroach and other insect contaminants... Cleanliness is good. Sadly, it isn't free. At least I can't find anyone who will clean my house for free. (Neither is love- just ask Elliot Spitzer )

[TheFountain]

laugh yoga is one that I try and spread

The germophobia is a bit much, IMO. Sure, if you handle animals, prepare or are eating food, work in a hospital, play with feces, are in a developing country with weak sanitation, pick your nose or rub eyes, or are a child, there are great reasons to frequently sanitize. Mostly I think it is overblown.

Okay, but it matters how sick you get. Some people have over-active immune systems, or are on CRON, in which case it's better to try to avoid getting sick. If you're healthy, young, and strong, getting a few bugs will probably make you stronger, but if you're old like me, and a flu can knock you down for weeks, better to practice your balance skills on the escalator.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnmMNdiCz_s

[Rational Madman]

Good list. I would add a small thing in line with the germophobic theme :

- Keep your computer desk religiously dust free, also the space close to your head where you sleep.

- And if you live in an appartment building and not insanely high, don't use the elevator ( altough that kind of fits into "exercise" I guess )

I had horses, llamas, and dogs throughout my generally happy childhood

Slightly off - top but...sounds like interesting child days Rol. I'm curious about those llamas.


Leha said :

alcohol consumption has never been shown to make people happy. It dulls the senses

I don't really see a contradiction here. Moreover, I see hint of a positive connection.

Everything you need to know about llamas:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBaUmx5s6iE

[JLL]

Lets see evidence that alcohol promotes long life? I've seen studies on cardiovascular benefits but somehow it never translates into longer life. Excess imbibing has consistently shown to be harmful. It has been shown to increase cancer risk.

You can start with this: http://www2.potsdam....1106591095.html

I think it's red wine that is best for cardiovascular health, but ethanol in general reduces total mortality. And, anything in excess is harmful.

[Zaul]

Sun Avoidance - Stay out of the sun. Hide in the shade. Wear long sleeves and sunglasses. Whatever works for you. This can reduce or eliminate your need for sunscreen. You should already be getting your Vitamin D3 in pill form anyways. If not, go get some right now, the cost is trivial especially compared to the profound benefits.

The Truth About Sunlight, Cancer and Vitamin D

[JLL]

Sun Avoidance - Stay out of the sun. Hide in the shade. Wear long sleeves and sunglasses. Whatever works for you. This can reduce or eliminate your need for sunscreen. You should already be getting your Vitamin D3 in pill form anyways. If not, go get some right now, the cost is trivial especially compared to the profound benefits.

The Truth About Sunlight, Cancer and Vitamin D

Avoiding the sun is strange advice for becoming healthier, since you're essentially suggesting buying vitamin D3 in pill form, which do not "cost nothing". Your advice should be to spend time in the sun instead. So your face will get wrinkly, but so what? That's not "unhealthy".

[platypus]

The colon is designed for taking a crap in a squatting position - if you have issues in this arena like constipation you should probably give it a try.

[EmbraceUnity]

The Truth About Sunlight, Cancer and Vitamin D

That contains a whole lot of bare assertions and very little evidence, like just about everything else on NaturalNews.

[EmbraceUnity]

Avoiding the sun is strange advice for becoming healthier, since you're essentially suggesting buying vitamin D3 in pill form, which do not "cost nothing". Your advice should be to spend time in the sun instead. So your face will get wrinkly, but so what? That's not "unhealthy".

I was tailoring the advice to people on this site, who are probably already taking lots of supplements. Though you are right, vitamin D doesn't exactly cost nothing, but it is dirt cheap. As for wrinkly faces, it is an indicator of sun damage. Radiation is not something you want to be exposed to if you can help it.

[Zaul]

The Truth About Sunlight, Cancer and Vitamin D

That contains a whole lot of bare assertions and very little evidence, like just about everything else on NaturalNews.

Perhaps ,but neither you provide any hard evidence that says that being a "Vampire" and swallow Vit D3 pills it's actually better than sun exposure.

Edited by Master, 01 December 2010 - 12:45 PM.

[EmbraceUnity]

Perhaps ,but neither you provide any hard evidence that says that being a "Vampire" and swallow Vit D3 pills it's actually better than sun exposure.

Aren't vampires immortal?

[Zaul]

Clever but you didn't answer my question yet

[RighteousReason]

Great thread. I don't really care much about the germaphobic ones though. With regular exercise and supplementing with ortho core, plus additional vitamin C and D, plus garlic... I haven't been sick in years, despite all of the shit I have aerosolized onto my toothbrush and all of the public door handles I have fully grasped without second thought (not to mention constantly touching my face and biting my finger nails lol).

Edited by RighteousReason, 05 December 2010 - 07:20 PM.

[Athanasios]

With regular exercise and supplementing with ortho core, plus additional vitamin C and D, plus garlic... I haven't been sick in years...

Good to hear!

Stress levels or anything that mitigates the effects of stress on the immune system can have a huge effect. One presentation that floated around here for a while, showed a study on immune compromised individuals. They used a student as one of the controls. They were surprised that he went from 'normal' markers to that of an immune compromised individual in one day. He had to give his first talk to a room of scientists that day and it stressed him out. What surprised them more is that it took about a month for him to return to baseline. I think this may play a big part in the effect some supplements have in keeping people from getting sick.

[RighteousReason]

With regular exercise and supplementing with ortho core, plus additional vitamin C and D, plus garlic... I haven't been sick in years...

Good to hear!

Stress levels or anything that mitigates the effects of stress on the immune system can have a huge effect. One presentation that floated around here for a while, showed a study on immune compromised individuals. They used a student as one of the controls. They were surprised that he went from 'normal' markers to that of an immune compromised individual in one day. He had to give his first talk to a room of scientists that day and it stressed him out. What surprised them more is that it took about a month for him to return to baseline. I think this may play a big part in the effect some supplements have in keeping people from getting sick.

that sounds stupid.

[DairyProducts]

Try avoiding sitting whenever possible. If you take public transport, stand instead of take a seat, some old or tired person will appreciate it and you'll be healthier for it. If you have a treadmill, read while you slowly walk on it. Instead of sitting while reading, stand while reading, etc.

[EmbraceUnity]

Try avoiding sitting whenever possible. If you take public transport, stand instead of take a seat, some old or tired person will appreciate it and you'll be healthier for it. If you have a treadmill, read while you slowly walk on it. Instead of sitting while reading, stand while reading, etc.

Do you know if the benefits of this are because of better circulation or greater burning of calories? A lot of the studies about this seem only to prove a correlation between sitting and mortality, not causality.

[Ace of Zardoz]

Avoid antioxidants around exercise - For an hour or two before and after exercise it is best to refrain from antioxidant sources.

A study with a handful of elderly hypertensive individuals hardly translates well toward the effects on the general population.

This is especially true of people who are CR practioners who already have low blood pressures. The effect of reduced blood pressures after exerise will be very minimal in people with low-normal blood pressure vs hypertensives. Hypertensives always exhibit a much more exaggerated response to blood pressuring lowering techniques including medications. The slight blunting of flow mediated dialation of vessels or blunting the post exercise BP drop will mean pretty much nothing in the CR population. However, the excessive generation of free radicals after exercise is very concerning as well as the inflammation and cell damage. It is this reason precisely that I always dose antioxidants after working out. It also speeds recovery and gains for myself significantly.

[DairyProducts]

Do you know if the benefits of this are because of better circulation or greater burning of calories? A lot of the studies about this seem only to prove a correlation between sitting and mortality, not causality.

I feel like I read somewhere that circulation played a part of it, if I can find it, I will post.

[Scottza]

Give blood!

http://www.clinchem..../full/51/7/1201

This is one of many studies that have shown increased longevity with blood donation. Many theories associated with reduced iron and other things...my personal theory is there is also a benefit from reduction of environmental toxins in blood. No filtration system is perfect, I am a chemical engineer and when you design a recirculating filtered system (like the body) filters only go so far in keeping the system clean, having a 'bleed' prevents accumulation of things that the filtration (ie liver) does not take out.

You are also helping someone else's longevity who needs the blood.

[EmbraceUnity]

Give blood!

This is a pretty good suggestion in general, and I think I considered it. Though, it would seem that people who are considered healthy enough to donate blood are probably healthier than random people, so that might account for the statistical difference in longevity. Would need hard evidence to put it on my list.