42 replies to this topic

[FadingGlow]

I sleep between 10-14 hours everyday. It's becoming kind of a burden and I find I don't have enough time in the day to complete my numerous tasks. I keep seeing on these forums people taking supplements such as bacopa, taurine, magnesium, ashwaganda, melatonin, and what not to supposedly increase their sleep quality. It seems though, that what they're really trying to do and accomplish by such is actually GETTING to sleep.

Any tips outside of supplements would be appreciated as well. I simply cannot keep sleeping this much.
I do however, wake up refreshed and not feeling tired.

I currently take before bed:
Magnesium citrate 800-1000mg
Taurine 1-2g
Melatonin ( occasionally ) 1mg
Vitamin C 500mg
5htp 100mg and l-tyrosine 200-400mg ( occasionally after doing certain drugs that might deplete such things )
ginkgo biloba extract 120mg ( I have bad blood flow and this seems to help quite a bit. )

[tlm884]

I sleep between 10-14 hours everyday. It's becoming kind of a burden and I find I don't have enough time in the day to complete my numerous tasks. I keep seeing on these forums people taking supplements such as bacopa, taurine, magnesium, ashwaganda, melatonin, and what not to supposedly increase their sleep quality. It seems though, that what they're really trying to do and accomplish by such is actually GETTING to sleep.

Any tips outside of supplements would be appreciated as well. I simply cannot keep sleeping this much.
I do however, wake up refreshed and not feeling tired.

I currently take before bed:
Magnesium citrate 800-1000mg
Taurine 1-2g
Melatonin ( occasionally ) 1mg
Vitamin C 500mg
5htp 100mg and l-tyrosine 200-400mg ( occasionally after doing certain drugs that might deplete such things )
ginkgo biloba extract 120mg ( I have bad blood flow and this seems to help quite a bit. )

Gabapentin over the long term can increase sleep quality.

[FadingGlow]

I sleep between 10-14 hours everyday. It's becoming kind of a burden and I find I don't have enough time in the day to complete my numerous tasks. I keep seeing on these forums people taking supplements such as bacopa, taurine, magnesium, ashwaganda, melatonin, and what not to supposedly increase their sleep quality. It seems though, that what they're really trying to do and accomplish by such is actually GETTING to sleep.

Any tips outside of supplements would be appreciated as well. I simply cannot keep sleeping this much.
I do however, wake up refreshed and not feeling tired.

I currently take before bed:
Magnesium citrate 800-1000mg
Taurine 1-2g
Melatonin ( occasionally ) 1mg
Vitamin C 500mg
5htp 100mg and l-tyrosine 200-400mg ( occasionally after doing certain drugs that might deplete such things )
ginkgo biloba extract 120mg ( I have bad blood flow and this seems to help quite a bit. )

Gabapentin over the long term can increase sleep quality.

Would GABA do the same thing?

[zm3thod]

I find tyrosine to be somewhat stimulating, and I've read that 5htp might be more effective taken in the morning as well, but not sure of the original source of this. Also, I used to find that taking 5htp seemed to make me wake up earlier than normal without an alarm (otherwise I'll just keep sleeping for 12 hours or so)

Have you tried theanine?

[adamh]

I find the opposite with 5htp, it seems to make me sleep longer where I was waking in the middle of the night and not being able to fall back to sleep. It seems to work differently with each person so it might be good to experiment with various things to see what works for you.

I have problems falling asleep and staying asleep both. I'm lucky to get 8 hours now and then. Usually when I do it's when I took something. I take a cheap otc sleep aid to fall asleep, it's antihistamine based. To stay asleep I use 5htp and sometimes generic lyrica which helps greatly with the quality of sleep. Another thing that works well is phenibut which is otc too. Phenibut should be used no more than once or at the most twice a week. Tolerance and addiction can easily come from more frequent use.

I haven't tried it yet but zopiclone is supposed to work well for quality of sleep. It and lyrica are script only but you can get them from overseas with a minimal doctor's review. I'm trying now indium which is a little controversial but many people say it helps their sleep and with other things. I just started and can't comment yet. In about another week I should have a better idea about it.

Tryptophan helps some people but not me very much. Valerian root helps a little. Be careful of benzos because they are more addictive than heroin and coming off a long term use can be horrendous.

Good luck, I hope you find something that works.

[xEva]

Meditating just before going to bed, even for 10-15min dramatically improves the quality of sleep while reducing its duration. As to which meditation, the one that worked that well for me and others that I knew of, was qigong type meditation, where you focus on the lower dantien (just below navel) and count your breaths while also doing other visualizations, the details of which vary in various schools. The longer the session, the shorter sleep you require.

[caruga]

Phenibut taken early evening, then theanine, glycine, and ashwagandha before bed. Taurine makes me sleep longer, but I haven't noticed an improvement in quality.

[tlm884]

I sleep between 10-14 hours everyday. It's becoming kind of a burden and I find I don't have enough time in the day to complete my numerous tasks. I keep seeing on these forums people taking supplements such as bacopa, taurine, magnesium, ashwaganda, melatonin, and what not to supposedly increase their sleep quality. It seems though, that what they're really trying to do and accomplish by such is actually GETTING to sleep.

Any tips outside of supplements would be appreciated as well. I simply cannot keep sleeping this much.
I do however, wake up refreshed and not feeling tired.

I currently take before bed:
Magnesium citrate 800-1000mg
Taurine 1-2g
Melatonin ( occasionally ) 1mg
Vitamin C 500mg
5htp 100mg and l-tyrosine 200-400mg ( occasionally after doing certain drugs that might deplete such things )
ginkgo biloba extract 120mg ( I have bad blood flow and this seems to help quite a bit. )

Gabapentin over the long term can increase sleep quality.

Would GABA do the same thing?

I personally find GABA ineffective. As well, GABA isn't believed to cross the blood-brain barrier so the GABA stays in systemic circulation. However, it may slow down nerve impulses in the PNS and the rest of the body in places such as muscles and give a generally relaxed state which would make falling asleep easier.

Gabapentin does not act like GABA in the brain. It is a GABA analogue but its MOA is actually inhibiting the enzyme that degrades GABA so more GABA is left in the brain to inhibit nerve transmission. Right now I don't have the time to find a journal article, but there are articles stating the gabapentin can be used to deepen stage 3 and 4 sleep and reduce REM sleep. I have been on gabapentin for several months, and it works amazingly well even at 300mg. However you have to watch out for tolerance issues. I will probably be switching to pregabalin as a result of tolerance.

I never mentioned tryptophan. It is prescription in Canada but 1.5 grams at night works amazingly well especially if you take vitamin B6 with it. As well, look for tolerance with this.

I find tyrosine to be somewhat stimulating, and I've read that 5htp might be more effective taken in the morning as well, but not sure of the original source of this. Also, I used to find that taking 5htp seemed to make me wake up earlier than normal without an alarm (otherwise I'll just keep sleeping for 12 hours or so)

Have you tried theanine?

5HTP is a dangerous supplement to mess around with. 5HTP can be decarboxylated to 5HT (seretonin) outside of the brain and cause problems with heart valves and the stomach. I would stick with tryptophan.

[tintinet]

Meditating just before going to bed, even for 10-15min dramatically improves the quality of sleep while reducing its duration. As to which meditation, the one that worked that well for me and others that I knew of, was qigong type meditation, where you focus on the lower dantien (just below navel) and count your breaths while also doing other visualizations, the details of which vary in various schools. The longer the session, the shorter sleep you require.

I find meditation soundtracks (Master Charles' and Jeffery Thompson's are some of my favorites for this) help me fall asleep. I'm not so sure I require any less sleep when I use them, though.

Edited by tintinet, 09 January 2011 - 06:29 PM.

[trance]

One of the best things to do to improve sleep quality via supplemental form is simple.

It may seem silly to some who have never tried it, but eliminating the secondary light sources will do wonders in term of sleep quality, and allow efficient activation of your reticular activating system (RAS).

Simply wear one of these while you sleep:

[FadingGlow]

One of the best things to do to improve sleep quality via supplemental form is simple.

It may seem silly to some who have never tried it, but eliminating the secondary light sources will do wonders in term of sleep quality, and allow efficient activation of your reticular activating system (RAS).

Simply wear one of these while you sleep:

Maybe this is it. I sleep in the living room in my dads apartment and can't really turn off all the lights. Will try this.

[Arc]

I will second the eye patch, I started using one a few months ago and this alone drastically improved sleep quality. Might make you slightly more drowsy when waking up, but just expose yourself to sunlight straight away and you should feel fine 15min later.

Also if you aren't using earplugs these can be good getting used to, to block out any unnecessary noise. Especially if you live somewhere noisy they should prevent any disruptions to your sleep cycle. Turn on a fan also to create some white noise and unless someone is yelling at me I wont wake up (or my alarm).

[zm3thod]

I take a cheap otc sleep aid to fall asleep, it's antihistamine based. To stay asleep I use 5htp and sometimes generic lyrica which helps greatly with the quality of sleep.

Diphenhydramine knocks me out, but I have a "sleep hangover" the next day
Doxylamine works better for my girlfriend than Diphenhydramine does, but I haven't tried it much

[zm3thod]

5HTP is a dangerous supplement to mess around with. 5HTP can be decarboxylated to 5HT (seretonin) outside of the brain and cause problems with heart valves and the stomach. I would stick with tryptophan.

I don't remember reading much about when I researched 5htp a year or two ago, but that doesn't mean it isn't true. I wonder if this is related to the suggestion of having Green Tea prior to taking 5htp?

Most of the times I have taken 5htp it has not worked well for me, but the one positive effect was seeming to need less sleep. I think there is a relationship with melatonin?

[tlm884]

5HTP is a dangerous supplement to mess around with. 5HTP can be decarboxylated to 5HT (seretonin) outside of the brain and cause problems with heart valves and the stomach. I would stick with tryptophan.

I don't remember reading much about when I researched 5htp a year or two ago, but that doesn't mean it isn't true. I wonder if this is related to the suggestion of having Green Tea prior to taking 5htp?

Most of the times I have taken 5htp it has not worked well for me, but the one positive effect was seeming to need less sleep. I think there is a relationship with melatonin?

The pathway is as follows

Tryptophan -> 5HTP -> Seretonin -> N-acetylseretonin ->Melatonin

So yes, 5HTP theoretically increases melatonin levels. But tryptophan would do the same, it may take longer. However, I have had more success with tryptophan over 5HTP and with tryptophan I dont have to worry about cardiac valve fibrosis. However, tryptophan increases sleep via other mechanisms other then just melatonin. Seretonin itself can initiate sleep and regulate sleep. So taking tryptophan is a double whammy. You are getting more seretonin and more melatonin. Personally, I take melatonin with my tryptophan anyhow.

[TysonS]

I just got a prescription of RAN-Zopilclone today for shift work sleep disorder. I'll give you some feedback once I try it!

[VampIyer]

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Gabapentin - It seems that gabapentin "halts the formation of new synapses" - That doesn't sound good, nor does the linked research article...

Otherwise (I have a fairly serious regimen here):

- Limit light-exposure; sleep-mask seems like a good idea if you can tolerate it
- Glutamine (5g), Glycine (3g) ... possibly 500mg - 1g of Arginine (I think the former 2 help more)
- Tryptophan (1-2g) + B6 as p5p (Source naturals makes a good formula, and Doctor's best makes a similar formula with the addition of niacinamide) - Also, Regular Niacin (full-flush (I use LEF brand, 500mg, but I must open the capsules because 500mg = intense)) may act as a soporific agent... about 100-200mg should be enough. Watch out, because most of these are "sustained release" junk. Check the picture of the bottle and the descriptions.
- Theanine as "suntheanine" - could be considered if you want to boost GABA, but the effect is subtle. The "pharmaGABA" seems to work a bit like phenibut (not sure how similar it is because they seem to be cagey about the details), so it does work, but I'd assume that one can build a tolerance. I only had a few days worth... was relaxing
- Magnesium Glycinate (I use Bluebonnet brand), 450mg elemental
- Zinc Glycinate or possibly Orotate (10-30mg elemental)... need to take copper (bisglycinate, bluebonnet brand) in the mornings to counter-balance, maybe a 1:10 - 1:15 ratio.
- Lithium Orotate - 5mg elemental (may slightly inhibit norepinephrine, causing slight drowsiness. May also accumulate over time, but risk is low)
- Folate: small amount of your preferred form

- Low-dose sustained release melatonin (750mcg - 1.5mg, I use source naturals brand)
- I actually think ginkgo at night prevents sleep (though I do use it during the day). It seems to boost dopamine... you can improve your circulation over time with exercise, diet VERY HIGH in vegetables and limiting junk carbs (not necessarily low-carb), K2 MK7 + D3, tocotrienols, astaxanthin (or just wild atlantic sockeye salmon)
- Holy Basil (seems to reduce cortisol a bit and improve relaxation). Enzymatic Therapy's Trinity blend and New Chapter's Supercritical seem to be the best ones...


Other things I do:

- Curcumin (1g) + EV Coconut Oil (nearly 1 TBSP) + LEF's Silymarin (milk thistle extract for liver function) or Primordial Performance's "Liver Juice" - same thing, but supposedly higher absorption... my friend with Hep. B says it works wonders.
- Prescription:
- 500-750mg of Levitaracetam ("Keppra") - Light NE-inhibitor, hopefully decreases brain inflammation... it seems to help. I take 100mg of Alpha-GPC with this.
- 0.1 - 0.2mg of clonidine (Primary NE-inhibitor) - I have serious health/sleep issues, so I need something like this

- I'm also trying a Traditional Chinese Medicine herbal protocol for my autoimmune disease state. It seems to allow me to sleep a bit more, however I don't understand how this combination of herbs works, and the formula keeps changing. I'll have to get a 2nd opinion - I'm keeping records, and my practitioner is highly credentialed in eastern/western medicine.

Things I'd need to cycle (I no longer take these regularly):

- Ashwagandha: 225 - 450mg of Jarrow Sensoril
- Himalaya MindCare

Edited by VampIyer, 17 January 2011 - 12:45 AM.

[khakiman]

huperzine-a

[TysonS]

I've used Zopliclone twice now... Each time, I took 7.5 mg and slept like a rock right through the day. Usually after working all night I get to bed at around 7:30 am and wake up every hour or two until around 12:00 or 1:00pm. With the Zopliclone, I woke up only once during the day and slept until 2:30pm so I got a solid 7 hours rather than the 4 or 5 that I usually would. So not only did I sleep a bit longer, the quality sleep was much better because I didn't wake up as much.

Ear plugs are a must in the noisy area I live in... I should look into the eye patch too.

[caruga]

Cycling Ash wouldn't work for me. I get a very pronounced sedative effect off of the first dosage but then become immune to it unless I come off of it for a few weeks.

[Guacamolium]

Sleep QUALITY you say?

GHB

Unfortunately that probably isn't an option for you, but GABOB is.

Don't know if that will help get you into delta wave patterns like its analog GHB, but an ibuprofen or naproxen plus a low dose antihistamine plus those lights-out bandana plus earplugs will help.

/////////

Anyways, I've had chronic insomnia for over 15 years, and sleep quality is important to me; it's a chore actually. There are also binaural beats that may cause you to fall into a deep delta wave pattern to get there. They help, just type in delta binaural and something will come up.

[Justchill]

Hi,

this is what helps me get a good night rest; here are my tips:

- Do not sleep longer than 9 hours, also try to sleep at least 7 hours
- in the evening, take 200mg L-theanine, it relieves stress, so you are not constantly thinking about work or other worries. Also L-theanine is very healthy.
- 30 mins before bed, take 0.7 - 1.5 mg melatonin
- Use earplugs: orophax soft are good
- Use a sleepmask to make it dark, no light = better sleep
- I also take 400mg magnesium, but I don't know if it affects sleep

Good luck !

And now I'm going to bed

[mindsg]

Amitriptyline increases non-REM sleep.

[OneScrewLoose]

Be careful of benzos because they are more addictive than heroin and coming off a long term use can be horrendous.

Addictive, yes. But more addictive than heroin? No.

Gabapentin does not act like GABA in the brain. It is a GABA analogue but its MOA is actually inhibiting the enzyme that degrades GABA so more GABA is left in the brain to inhibit nerve transmission. Right now I don't have the time to find a journal article, but there are articles stating the gabapentin can be used to deepen stage 3 and 4 sleep and reduce REM sleep. I have been on gabapentin for several months, and it works amazingly well even at 300mg. However you have to watch out for tolerance issues. I will probably be switching to pregabalin as a result of tolerance.

Gabapentin and pregabalin don't inhibit the breakdown of GABA but rather increase the conversion from Glutamate to GABA by increasing the activity of Glutemic Acid Decarboxylase.

Also, I take 500mg of Benfotiamine (250 in the morning and 250 before bed) and wake up a good deal more refreshed.

Edited by OneScrewLoose, 21 March 2011 - 08:12 PM.

[adamh]

Be careful of benzos because they are more addictive than heroin and coming off a long term use can be horrendous.

Addictive, yes. But more addictive than heroin? No.

You are entitled to your opinion but I wonder what it's based on? I've heard from junkies that cigarettes are harder to quit than heroin. Benzos are a beast.

[OneScrewLoose]

Be careful of benzos because they are more addictive than heroin and coming off a long term use can be horrendous.

Addictive, yes. But more addictive than heroin? No.

You are entitled to your opinion but I wonder what it's based on? I've heard from junkies that cigarettes are harder to quit than heroin. Benzos are a beast.

Check this. Just about any list of addiction potential I've seen has heroin, nicotine, alcohol, and cocaine at the top and then other drugs below them.

[FadingGlow]

If your just going to talk about heroin/benzo addiction/withdrawel GTFO outta my thread and go to http://bluelight.ru
Thanks.

Edited by FadingGlow, 23 March 2011 - 08:45 PM.

[OneScrewLoose]

If your just going to talk about heroin/benzo addiction/withdrawel GTFO outta my thread and go to http://bluelight.ru
Thanks.

Why don't you GTFO of your own ***hole and learn to have a discussion?

And ffs you didn't even see my recommendation for benfiotiamine.

Edited by OneScrewLoose, 23 March 2011 - 08:58 PM.

[FadingGlow]

If your just going to talk about heroin/benzo addiction/withdrawel GTFO outta my thread and go to http://bluelight.ru
Thanks.

Why don't you GTFO of your own ***hole and learn to have a discussion?

And ffs you didn't even see my recommendation for benfiotiamine.

Because your high-jacking my thread. Stop wasting everyones time.

[caruga]

If your just going to talk about heroin/benzo addiction/withdrawel GTFO outta my thread and go to http://bluelight.ru
Thanks.

Why don't you GTFO of your own ***hole and learn to have a discussion?

And ffs you didn't even see my recommendation for benfiotiamine.

Because your high-jacking my thread. Stop wasting everyones time.

It's not your thread, just one you have started, and you're the one derailing it.