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Sthira's Diet

CR Diet

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#31 Sillewater

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 07:53 PM

I'll have to do some more reading before I try and discuss it with you, but just some preliminary papers I found and I'll post here. Sorry Sthira for jacking the thread.


Prostaglandins Leukot Essent Fatty Acids. 2010 Sep;83(3):161-9. Epub 2010 Jul 14.Erythrocyte fatty acids and prostate cancer risk: a comparison of methods.Shannon J, O'Malley J, Mori M, Garzotto M, Palma AJ, King IB.




Int J Cancer. 1997 May 16;71(4):545-51.Prediagnostic level of fatty acids in serum phospholipids: omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids and the risk of prostate cancer.Harvei S, Bjerve KS, Tretli S, Jellum E, Robsahm TE, Vatten L.




Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 2007 Jul;16(7):1364-70. Epub 2007 Jun 21.A prospective study of polyunsaturated fatty acid levels in blood and prostate cancer risk.Chavarro JE, Stampfer MJ, Li H, Campos H, Kurth T, Ma J.




J Health Care Poor Underserved. 2010 Feb;21(1 Suppl):127-47.The association of plasma fatty acids with prostate cancer risk in African Americans and Africans.Ukoli FA, Fowke JH, Akumabor P, Oguike T, Taher KA, Murff HJ, Amaefuna ER, Kittles R, Ahaghotu C, Osime U, Beech DJ.




Cancer Causes Control. 2009 Mar;20(2):211-23. Epub 2008 Sep 27.


Circulating fatty acids and prostate cancer risk in a nested case-control study: the Multiethnic Cohort.Park SY, Wilkens LR, Henning SM, Le Marchand L, Gao K, Goodman MT, Murphy SP, Henderson BE, Kolonel LN.














The RBCs and Serum measurement of fatty acids might be a better indicator of dietary ALA intake (rather then FFQ). When I have time I'll try and read through some of the data.

#32 ajnast4r

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 12:03 AM

Its probably better than the standard American diet... but not by much. I wouldn't say it deserves a "compassionate for the planet" label, either.


i think the whole vegetarianism is better for the planet thing is a crock.

#33 TheFountain

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 03:15 PM

I think what michael was referring to mainly was health outcomes. Not what is suppose to, in theory, be the case. Or what is suppose to work on humans as well as on rats. We don't know all the deficiencies and possibly enzymatic variations between all humans, so who knows? I do know this. High fat diet did not work for me. I can cope with about 60 grams of fat a day, anything above that turns into body fat. And I know this how? Process of elimination my friends. I virtually eliminated all carbs out of my diet for months and still had body fat around my hips and abdomen, was doing 150 grams of healthy fat a day, including 30% of it from saturated fat. Slowly I began to add carbs, till I am back up to around 100-150 grams a day of carbs and down to about 50-60 grams a day of fat. Guess what? My body fat is disappearing. Everything else in the diet remained virtually the same through this. Maybe I lack certain enzymes that allow me to metabolize dietary fat properly? Oh, I stopped eating fish and dairy again too. So use every bit of scientific theory you have to reason that x=y=z because the mathematical model indicates such. But in the end how much do we REALLY know till we experiment? I know one thing. I feel better and look better back on a no dairy, moderate carb, semi-low fat diet. Am I delusional? If I am then I would prefer this delusion over the calculated scientific reality that eating extremely low carb, high fat is (in theory) suppose to work wonderfully for me.

Edited by TheFountain, 26 March 2011 - 03:17 PM.


#34 scottknl

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 04:05 AM

I... I do know this. High fat diet did not work for me. I can cope with about 60 grams of fat a day, anything above that turns into body fat. And I know this how? Process of elimination my friends. I virtually eliminated all carbs out of my diet for months and still had body fat around my hips and abdomen, was doing 150 grams of healthy fat a day, including 30% of it from saturated fat. Slowly I began to add carbs, till I am back up to around 100-150 grams a day of carbs and down to about 50-60 grams a day of fat. Guess what? My body fat is disappearing. Everything else in the diet remained virtually the same through this. Maybe I lack certain enzymes that allow me to metabolize dietary fat properly? Oh, I stopped eating fish and dairy again too. So use every bit of scientific theory you have to reason that x=y=z because the mathematical model indicates such. But in the end how much do we REALLY know till we experiment? I know one thing. I feel better and look better back on a no dairy, moderate carb, semi-low fat diet. Am I delusional? If I am then I would prefer this delusion over the calculated scientific reality that eating extremely low carb, high fat is (in theory) suppose to work wonderfully for me.

Isn't your experience just a really long way of saying that balanced diet works best? I mean it's hard to get nutrients when you're limiting your carbs to a super small amount. After all, veggies do generally have some carbs and tend to have lots of other goodies like phyto-nutrients, iso-flavons and anti-oxidants etc. in addition to the regular vitamins and minerals. Sure, you could supplement all the short comings of such a diet, but overall surely it would be better to have started with a reasonable balance of P:F:C in the first place. FYI I use 15%P:51%C:34%F. and it melts the fat pretty good along with some modest, CR appropriate exercise.

#35 kismet

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 04:23 PM

Skot, really, you must contemplate the idea that 'mechanistic speculation is bullshit' and that you can't refute strong evidence with weaker, discorcondant outlier studies.

E.g. on ALA you cite case-control when prospective epi exists, you cite an outdated meta-analysis when two recent ones arrive at a different conclusion, you look at ALA in isolation when there is plenty evidence on ALA rich foods and their net effect (I mentioned them in our last discussion!), you think you are addressing MR's argument while he was mainly, though, I suppose not exclusively talking about CRONies.

@MR

...

Similarly, based on its better support of HDL levels is also mechanistically backward, and again rebutted by the evidence from actual health outcomes. There are now several meta-analyses of prospective epidemiology and clinical trials (1-3) all showing that substitution of saturated with polyunsaturated fat (but not, importantly, with carbohydrate) leads to better cardiovascular health outcomes.

...

References
1: Mozaffarian D, Micha R, Wallace S. Effects on coronary heart disease of increasing polyunsaturated fat in place of saturated fat: a systematic review and meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials. PLoS Med. 2010 Mar 23;7(3):e1000252. Review. PubMed PMID: 20351774; PubMed Central PMCID: PMC2843598.

2: Skeaff CM, Miller J. Dietary fat and coronary heart disease: summary of evidence from prospective cohort and randomised controlled trials. Ann Nutr Metab. 2009;55(1-3):173-201. Epub 2009 Sep 15. PubMed PMID: 19752542.

3: Jakobsen MU, O'Reilly EJ, Heitmann BL, Pereira MA, Bälter K, Fraser GE, Goldbourt U, Hallmans G, Knekt P, Liu S, Pietinen P, Spiegelman D, Stevens J, Virtamo J, Willett WC, Ascherio A. Major types of dietary fat and risk of coronary heart disease: a pooled analysis of 11 cohort studies. Am J Clin Nutr. 2009 May;89(5):1425-32. Epub 2009 Feb 11. PubMed PMID: 19211817; PubMed Central PMCID: PMC2676998.



I would like to draw your attention to a new paper if you haven't seen it yet. Ramsden et al's meta-analysis of Mozaffarian et al. arrives at the opposite conclusion regarding PUFA and may merit revisiting the PUFA discussion. (not so much the SFA discussion, because in either scenario SFA is inferior to n3/n6/MUFA)
The paper is also interesting, perhaps esp. to you, because it is indirect evidence in favour of ALA (and more generally N3 PUFA).

Br J Nutr. 2010 Dec;104(11):1586-600.
n-6 Fatty acid-specific and mixed polyunsaturate dietary interventions have different effects on CHD risk: a meta-analysis of randomised controlled trials.
Ramsden CE, Hibbeln JR, Majchrzak SF, Davis JM.

Of course, the only constant remains that MUFA- and polyphenol-rich fatty foods (nuts, EVOO) and some sources of N3 are healthy. Everything else is even more speculative.

and also another study on the topic of ALA and indirectly PUFA:

...hot off the presses:
The PREDIMED trial, implementing a Mediterranean diet somewhat similar to the Lyon study sans PUFA-lowering, now published first results on relevant endpoints, showing reduced Diabetes incidence from an ALA-enriched complex dietary intervention.

http://www.unav.es/d... 2010 Salas.pdf

(tho, honestly the results seem more consistent with a MUFA/other effect than a pure ALA benefit: a similar anti-diabetes effect was seen in the low-ALA olive oil group)

(this was taken from our most recent ALA vs EPA/DHA discussion: http://www.longecity...310#entry454310 )

---

People tend to forget just how complex the whole issue is when they turn to simplifications like "PUFA increases oxLDL, therefore it must be unhealthy")
Long ago this was meant as a follow-up to my post about the complexities of Lp(a) metabolism, but I will probably never get around to finishing the post. So here are my "notes" about the issue.

What follows is a ranting, geeky and most of all unpolished post. Since this is clearly important AND offtopic I suggest we continue the discussion in a new thread:
http://www.longecity...bious-evidence/

Edited by kismet, 29 April 2011 - 08:26 PM.

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